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NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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It's difficult for me to stay in this game with my schedule, but I will be staying until the end of day 2 so I won't be unfair to this game.

I gotta go now, peace.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
Haunted, I just want to keep in mind that this is a game. I am assessing your actions purely from the point of this game and from what I see is important to say. By no means am I ripping into your stories at a personal level, but you have to know that these mafia games are deception based and they in signing up you kind of are putting yourself on trial a bit.

The schedule doesn't bother me so much and actions don't bother me so much personally. It's how I perceive that you have been using them in the game. If I was a mafia member, I would look to create a pretty good story by using what I have to work with. Obviously you are in a different time zone and you might be busy in real life. But a good mafia member would look at this and say "how could I take advantage of this?" And I feel that you have used your real life handicaps and used them in a way that benefits your goals. Whether I'm right or wrong, think you're lying or not, the fact that you bring it up in the game and that it is your reasoning for your actions make it somewhat of a fair point that you could be using these things as solid covers for your reasons.

It's fine if you don't think you can do this anymore because of schedules. I wasn't mad at Moi for doing it. But it's a little bit more than "that" you're doing it. But also "how" you're doing it. And I have an opinion about it. Not saying I'm right but you have done a lot of weird things in this game and you were pretty high up on a lot of peoples lists who I trust too.

Just because you respond to me doesn't mean that I buy your argument or that I agree about what you said. If I have a hunch that you are mafia, and I do, I'm going to be taking your arguments with a grain of salt. Other people might buy them but they don't really answer my questions. Just because I am inexperienced doesn't mean that my thoughts are stupid or not without merit. It doesn't mean that people won't listen to me. It doesn't mean that you know my role and what I know, or that I can say it outright. I'm just trying to make an argument on you because I believe that you are the most likely person to be mafia right now and that your actions from day one and into day two have done nothing but add to these chances.

I do not see anyone with more questionable actions than you right now, and you have handled these issues very poorly in my opinion. I see you as doing these things because all of these things at all this timing is too big of a coincidence. And I feel you lied out of getting lynched day 1.

As such that's where my votes lie. And I'm trying to get people to see my reasoning and come along with me because that's part of this game. I'm sorry that you are having IRL issues, but I don't want to take the chance that this is part of a scheme to get a new guy in here and let us forget about your actions.
 
Just dropping in to ask, for a game that's only on day 2, has Smogon Mafia ever gotten 35 pages in? I hope you guys aren't trying to go for a record here or smth... lol
 
Acklow said:
Just dropping in to ask, for a game that's only on day 2, has Smogon Mafia ever gotten 35 pages in? I hope you guys aren't trying to go for a record here or smth... lol
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The game thread for Great Idea Mafia is 37 pages long, Mario Kart NOC is 44 pages, Twilight Princess NOC is 29 pages, and Mafia from the Depths reached 41 pages. Those are the ones on the first 4 or so pages of Circus Maximus. Looks like we're on course for a record by Day 3!

Anyways, with the expected dip in inactivity and the need for more subs, deadline will not be announced yet; it'll probably in 48 hours or so.
 
For the Cancerous vote, Jalmont stayed on it for the entire time, making me feel like he was sticking to his thoughts, so I don't see him as the mafia on the vote.

Before Sunny's vote at 5:54, there were only 3 people on Cancerous, and the final four votes happened within 30 min. If I had to guess, there is a mafia member within one of Fatecrashers, amianki, Spiffy, or BT. From my earlier post, I clearly have some reservations about Fatecrashers, but I am also becoming more wary of Amianki as the game goes on. In post 470 amianki states that he doesn't like the Cancerous vote, yet he suddenly jumps on that wagon to help in hammering him in post 513. I also am not a fan of his line of reasoning around post 707 where he tries to argue for the Jalmont lynch due to the possible information it will provide from the flip. He even seems to disagree with vonFielder's posts (718 and 720) trying to point out how poor a reason this is.

Haunted Diamond was also on this lynch, albeit from earlier in the day. However his reasoning still felt pretty terrible to me. We was unwilling to post a definitive reason and instead just kept saying the vague "I read his posts"...and the vote coming less than a page after having no understanding of the Cancerous wagon bothers me.

So from that vote overall, my guess for two of the mafia is HD and one of Fatecrashers/amiank. I highly doubt that all three members were dumb enough to jump on that wagon though. So at least one member would be in the rest of the votes. If I had to take a shot in the dark for the other member, it would probably be Serious Bananas, but that read needs more time to get fleshed out.
 
Alright:

I have literally NO idea what is going on here; there are like 4 lynch targets going around within the past 4 pages.

Can someone please explain? Maybe I can be useful then. I don't have a clue about what's going on atm.
 
The only serious lynch targets we have right now are Fatecrashers, Spiffy, and HauntedDiamond.

Jalmont and pokeguy have been thrown around without much support. Von was kind of questioned but I don't know if we are going that far as to think he is a serious lynch candidate.
 
Celever said:
Uhhh... You're looking at this one way.

Alternatively, HD is a village power role who has had to sub out for irl reasons. He softclaimed PR because he is one and he subbed out because... IRL. This is looking a little opportunistic Buttered, which mafia do to push lynches.

This doesn't mean that I don't think that HD is necessarily a bad lynch, but... IDK. Could someone do a case summary for me please? I've been keeping up to date, but right now it seems like the only reason he's being lynched is because he refused to claim. This is more indicative of town PR than mafia. Town PRs are actually important for the unimformed, and they need to stick around as long as possible to help the town out at night, or give reslts the following day. This would explain why HD is playing with self-preservation a priority. By preservinghimself, he is actually helping te town more than a vanilla. Mafia would have a safe claim prepared by now (unless the mafia team is entirely comprised of newer players I guess). If someone can give me some better reasons I'll give them a look, but I can't be on board with this lynch. Especially because from what I've seen there's been basically unanimous support for the guy to be dead. Would the mafia really abandon one of their own just like that? I don't buy it right now. Of course, I could easily be wrong, but we all could :p
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Don't just ignore this Buttered!

Sunny's correct, today is a total shitstorm. There's unanimous support for HD's lynch, but no one actually has it as their first priority besides ButteredToast. Everyone else cares about their other main targets, and no one can properly agree.

Here is what I propose: everyone posts a % chance of them lynching a player, e.g sunny: 100. With 24 hours or thereabouts left until deadline, I'll give everyone an average (mean) and we all lynch the person with the highest average, no quesions asked. We need some order.
 
Mithril said:
He even seems to disagree with vonFielder's posts (718 and 720) trying to point out how poor a reason this is.
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I didn't say the reasoning was poor, I was clarifying that the reasoning was supplemental to other scummy behavior. I'm not sure why he didn't get this with the first post I made.
 
ButteredToast said:
Haunted, I just want to keep in mind that this is a game. I am assessing your actions purely from the point of this game and from what I see is important to say. By no means am I ripping into your stories at a personal level, but you have to know that these mafia games are deception based and they in signing up you kind of are putting yourself on trial a bit.

The schedule doesn't bother me so much and actions don't bother me so much personally. It's how I perceive that you have been using them in the game. If I was a mafia member, I would look to create a pretty good story by using what I have to work with. Obviously you are in a different time zone and you might be busy in real life. But a good mafia member would look at this and say "how could I take advantage of this?" And I feel that you have used your real life handicaps and used them in a way that benefits your goals. Whether I'm right or wrong, think you're lying or not, the fact that you bring it up in the game and that it is your reasoning for your actions make it somewhat of a fair point that you could be using these things as solid covers for your reasons.

It's fine if you don't think you can do this anymore because of schedules. I wasn't mad at Moi for doing it. But it's a little bit more than "that" you're doing it. But also "how" you're doing it. And I have an opinion about it. Not saying I'm right but you have done a lot of weird things in this game and you were pretty high up on a lot of peoples lists who I trust too.

Just because you respond to me doesn't mean that I buy your argument or that I agree about what you said. If I have a hunch that you are mafia, and I do, I'm going to be taking your arguments with a grain of salt. Other people might buy them but they don't really answer my questions. Just because I am inexperienced doesn't mean that my thoughts are stupid or not without merit. It doesn't mean that people won't listen to me. It doesn't mean that you know my role and what I know, or that I can say it outright. I'm just trying to make an argument on you because I believe that you are the most likely person to be mafia right now and that your actions from day one and into day two have done nothing but add to these chances.

I do not see anyone with more questionable actions than you right now, and you have handled these issues very poorly in my opinion. I see you as doing these things because all of these things at all this timing is too big of a coincidence. And I feel you lied out of getting lynched day 1.

As such that's where my votes lie. And I'm trying to get people to see my reasoning and come along with me because that's part of this game. I'm sorry that you are having IRL issues, but I don't want to take the chance that this is part of a scheme to get a new guy in here and let us forget about your actions.
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My problem with your arguments is that you're attacking my general integrity. Think about it: Would I be really that stupid to use a cheap tactic like "playing the poor with my post restriction" that's almost certainly gonna work against me? Even if I do and succeed with it (assuming I was mafia) then I'm gonna have the label of stupid tactics on me on for the rest of my time on smogon. Or why would I want to abuse my time difference and being busy "story" to avoid posting while posting at active times can be very helpful to me (as proved on the weekend)? And assuming I manage to abuse it and get results with it as a mafia (in a parallel world), then in the rest of the games people are not gonna believe me when I say I was busy even if I was telling the truth! Would you want that?
Yeah using someone's real life problems or accusing them of cheap tactics (like trying to make people feel sorry for them) is a personal attack to me because it goes beyond this game (as it will have consequences beyond this game) and attacks their way of playing and personal behavior. I'm not saying that I'm a great mafia player, but I sure don't want to be labeled for stupid and pathetic tactics and seeing people labeling me for them right now just drives me sick.

You're gonna have to give me the benefit of doubts for these matters if you want to start to scumhunt on a higher level.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
Celever, I'm not ignoring it. I agree it could be the cause but everything that has happened has happened in a way that somehow strategically benefits him. That's just me and that's just my thoughts. And yes, I'm very much aware that he could actually be what he said from the start and could actually be doing this as a village. But it doesn't feel right. And then you have the part of the conversation where we brought up that he possibly fibbed about his power role and won't claim or say anything because of the implications.

I also don't see a lot of support for an HD lynch. Like you said I see a lot of "oh yeah he's okay but lets do this instead" type of behavior. Which I wouldn't really call support really. That's like calling the Cancerous votes support. It's kind of a default opinion that I'm not sure will pick up at the end. However, we kind of all bandwagoned on him at the end of day 1 but depending on if the mafia has day talk which we wont know can mean a lot of things.

I also think that % thing is pretty terrible of an idea and blindly voting on these results makes really no sense at all. I agree we need order but this isn't it at all.

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Haunted, I'm not sure I get the implications you're laying down. I don't think anyone on this forum is going to question your credibility in the future if you lied about being busy or used your timezone to get out of things. Anyone who does really doesn't get how this game is supposed to work. The only implications is that in future mafia games, if you are suspected as the mafia and you have to go right before making a claim or sub out close to deadline after an emotional response to pressure, they might see you the same way. And the only way that these labels will be applied to you is if I'm right and if you're mafia. Which you assured me that you're not.

If you're village and all these labels and fake tactics are applied to you, I don't see any reason for worry or that post. You'd be cleared of any wrong doing and could say that your information was legitimate and I'm just a stupid asshole noob who was totally off base. Only reason I can find that you would be concerned with this is if you were mafia but you didn't use these excuses and played clean. And after you flip people will agree with me that this is what you did and how "dirty" of a player you were.

By all standards you are a good guy and I don't have a problem with you at all. I hope you do understand this is all just a game and nothing that happens here will carry over elsewhere. Maybe my idea of preconceived "you are mafia" from Day 1 is influencing my thought pattern when looking at things like this. And I'm not saying your response to me wasn't insincere but because the implications you list really only happen if you were to flip mafia, I just see that whole thing as another reason you're mafia.
 
That argument wasn't really game related, just something personal I wanted to get off my chest (while trying to make it look like so it wouldn't ruin the game, so you better not look for clues there).
You know, this is just a game afterall and we're all trying to take pleasure out of it. It's understandable if you found my schedule conflictions with the game implausible, but making long and undermining posts about them would take all the pleasure out of the game for me.
Maybe it's just me, I dislike aggressive people in general.
 
Celever said:
Sunny's correct, today is a total shitstorm. There's unanimous support for HD's lynch, but no one actually has it as their first priority besides ButteredToast. Everyone else cares about their other main targets, and no one can properly agree.
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Why don't we just lynch him then?
It should be blatantly obvious that with the time restraints we have, that we should probably LYNCH THE PERSON THAT MOST OF US AGREE WITH, AND NOT BICKER OVER YOUR "SPECIAL" LYNCH TARGET THAT DOESN'T HAVE UNANIMOUS SUPPORT.

I'll wait to vote in case anyone wants to disagree, but I will probably be voting soon.
 
sunny004 said:
Why don't we just lynch him then?
It should be blatantly obvious that with the time restraints we have, that we should probably LYNCH THE PERSON THAT MOST OF US AGREE WITH, AND NOT BICKER OVER YOUR "SPECIAL" LYNCH TARGET THAT DOESN'T HAVE UNANIMOUS SUPPORT.

I'll wait to vote in case anyone wants to disagree, but I will probably be voting soon.
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I'm not going to lynch HD whatever happens UNTIL someone gives me a case summary like I've asked for earlier. The case against him from my understanding is that he claimed a Power Role and hasn't clamed it yet. That reasoning is worse than Cancerous' lynch yesterday.
 
*would take all the pleasure out for me if the conflictions were true

There isn't any point against me if you rule out the conspiracy stories and speculations.

"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
 
This is Day 2. In no respect are we going to be able to have any hard evidence on anyone. All we have is loose suspicions and general patterns of behavior. That's not really a defense at this point because unless someone goes "Oh hey guys I'm the mafia" we're not going to have any other hard evidence on anyone that benefits the village to share right now.

So yeah, we don't have anything but speculations and conspiracies on you HD. You're absolutely right. But you give me a piece of fact that isn't on anyone else in this game right now and I'll change my vote from you to them.

Since I'm leading the charge on HD I guess I'll do the review. Just give me until later tonight to get it all together. Really don't want to sift through everything just to catch you up, but I guess it's my responsibility.
 
Celever said:
Don't just ignore this Buttered!

Sunny's correct, today is a total shitstorm. There's unanimous support for HD's lynch, but no one actually has it as their first priority besides ButteredToast. Everyone else cares about their other main targets, and no one can properly agree.

Here is what I propose: everyone posts a % chance of them lynching a player, e.g sunny: 100. With 24 hours or thereabouts left until deadline, I'll give everyone an average (mean) and we all lynch the person with the highest average, no quesions asked. We need some order.
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I don't agree with this. I see a lot more reason for scum to have this kind of information than town. Knowing exactly where every single person in the game is with reads gives scum a lot of information that they can use to make a plan going forward.
 
Mithril said:
The whole vonFielder, Spiffy, Jalmont thing seems like 3 villagers to me at the moment. All of them have been around long enough to be a little wary about drawing so much attention to themselves over pretty mundane arguments.
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This is something I disagree with, though. I've noticed that there's no better way to completely kill any momentum in a game than to get into a multi-page fight with someone and block pretty much everyone else out. This is something I can see scum initiating on purpose, but experience tells me (annoyingly) that it's more anti-town than scummy overall.

Although something to note is that it's far more likely that there's at least one town in the exchange. It's definitely possible to be scum vs scum, but it's very difficult to pull off without sounding fake. I've only ever seen it work once, actually.

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ButteredToast said:
Guys, we absolutely need to lynch Haunted Diamond.

This is the second game day in a row that after facing pressure, he has resorted to low tactics to save himself. Day 1 it was soft claiming a power role and then running away before deadline. Now on Day 2 when the pressure starts to come from more sides, he threatens to sub out to protect his character. Literally, if this isn't the most self preservationist thing someone has done in a mafia game, I don't know what is.

He is literally making us restart the books on him and his character close to deadline to again save himself. Or moreover, save his character. I don't see this as being a village move. I feel that this is him being a mafia member looking to buy more time for is mafia team.

Literally guys. In no world can we let two of these offenses go. You should not be allowed to claim to be a power role and be allowed to live with impunity without answering some questions. I'm not saying he should have claimed exactly what he was no matter what but don't hide from questions. You should also not be able to sub out just because you are under suspicion of being a mafia close to deadline. You shouldn't be allowed to hit the damned reset button on your past behavior. You shouldn't be allowed to hide from a lynch just because you feel like you are being treated unfair. Fight for yourself because you are obviously important. Don't do this crap that really only serves to buy time for your mafia team and invoke another random lynch based on almost no information.

Seriously. Do we want anyone to do what he is doing? Anyone who is suspected of a lynch just claiming they're important and then running away? And when called upon it, just quit and sub close to the deadline when he knows no one will replace him and we wont be able to get a read on the new guy?

Are we going to let anyone do this? Because if we are, well shit, let's just fork over the game to the mafia right now. If we're not holding people accountable for their actions we should just pick numbers out of hats and random vote each time.

And hell, if this isn't the epitome of him being mafia and "taking one for the team" I don't know what the hell is.

Let me make this damned clear. I do not want actual votes cast on HD right now. I do want informal votes to this matter immediately. I already know that myself, Spiffy, and Mithril are all on board with lynching him. I need to know your guys thoughts.

vonFiedler : You state that Spiffy and HD were your two highest scum players and that if we thought he was scummy regardless of the claim situation, we should lynch him. Does this push you over the edge?

Everyone else on the group I need your stances now. I want as close to 100% participation on this as humanly possible moving forward so we can see who is on what side.

Again, do not vote formally vote to lynch until closer to deadline. We can use all the time we are given to give him a chance to respond or for something else to come up.
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I hatehatehate this post, almost entirely because of the very last line. I don't see town being so sure that a slot is flipping scum and spending so much effort trying to force it through saying that they want to wait in case something else shows up. It's far more likely that he's trying to force this lynch through, but wants to give himself an out in case there's more resistance to this lynch than he expected.
 
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