One point I think needs to be clarified when discussing Landorus's role against offense with RP (admittedly terminology I've probably used improperly as well).
RP Landorus, when used against offense, is used as a late game cleaner, rather than a mid-game sweeper (debatable if he can be called a sweeper at all). Landorus isn't looking to set up ASAP and then deal massive damage for something to finish up, because as powerful as he is, there's plenty he can't quite OHKO and he can be revenged. Landorus is best saved for the lategame where hazards have taken their toll on the opposing team and the best answers to him (mainly priority users and Scarf Special attackers) have already been eliminated.
What sets Landorus apart from other cleaners in this role is that he doesn't have to be relegated solely to lategame for doing work. His typing means he doesn't have to fear Thunder Wave users, Choiced users have to be wary of Electric Moves (cutting down Voltturn) or Ground moves, since a free switch gives Landorus a chance to do serious damage even if he's not cleaning yet. Lack of LO recoil and immunity to Spikes (which some suicide leads like Skarm will try to lay) means Landorus can expect to have a decent enough amount of health in lategame even if he sees use earlier, as opposed to something like Gyarados having to be kept back due to SR weakness in base form.
Landorus's proficiency against offense is less as a sweeper and more as a cleaner needing minimal support and (compared to most) needing less health removed due to his high natural power. And this is in best case scenario. In a worst case, Landorus survives some surprisingly powerful neutral priority just by retaining 70% of his health (which amounts to 2 SR switch-ins), and has a surprising ability to survive a hit from Banded Azumarill.
And the big thing about RP Landorus is that he performs about as well as any cleaner, without sacrificing a great deal of his viability as a Balance Breaker (he loses coverage, but gains some decent power from the positive nature), since defensive cores have very little that outspeeds neutral-Speed vs Positive-Speed Landorus. It performs on the same level as other powerful Balance-Breakers like Zard-Y or Gardevoir, but it has less opportunity cost (no Mega Slot) with equal if not more absurd power, and can put in more work than them against other playstyles with the sets both parties would be comparing anyway.
As for a personal problem I take with an argument: Yes, Landorus can't run all 11 of his viable moves at once, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to run into them, and if Landorus is carrying a move you're not prepared for, that might make him ready to run over your team, or punch the holes for a teammate to. With Kyurem-B, even if the Sub and Choice Scarf sets play differently from the All-Out Attacker sets, they're still stopped by relatively similar things. A Landorus with Rock Slide gets around a completely different set of checks than with Knock Off. So you have to prepare for multiple Landorus variants to be sure you don't get jumped by the one that slipped through the cracks, which is a huge team building constraint.
The suspect ladder is a VERY rough idea of how the metagame is changed without the element being suspected. People flock to using more bulky teams because one of the biggest constraints on them are gone. It's mildly similar to new toy syndrome: something immediately became easier to use/more available (whether or not it is significantly better), so everyone immediately seeks to use it. It's the same way everyone flocked to Mega Gallade as a Medicham replacement, before deducing that it was more hype than outright improved viability. Balance/Bulky builds will have it easier, but there's no proof they'll be ridiculously huge in a post Landorus-I meta. And if they seem unbreakable, how long did it take people to innovate/change in response to other new meta threats, like finding Tank Chomp for things like Metagross, or bring back SpD Skarmory as a 1 slot answer to Gross, Diancie, Scizor, etc. The metagame can take time to adapt, more than the ladder allows.
And regardless, the concern is whether Landorus is bad for the metagame now. Even if the metagame without him isn't better, if Landorus is bad right now, we ban him and give the new meta time to settle. If the new meta is problematic, we'll suspect defensive threats in it then.
Landorus might be something later gens could make OU manageable, but for now, I don't think the Genie's fit to come out of the bottle.
RP Landorus, when used against offense, is used as a late game cleaner, rather than a mid-game sweeper (debatable if he can be called a sweeper at all). Landorus isn't looking to set up ASAP and then deal massive damage for something to finish up, because as powerful as he is, there's plenty he can't quite OHKO and he can be revenged. Landorus is best saved for the lategame where hazards have taken their toll on the opposing team and the best answers to him (mainly priority users and Scarf Special attackers) have already been eliminated.
What sets Landorus apart from other cleaners in this role is that he doesn't have to be relegated solely to lategame for doing work. His typing means he doesn't have to fear Thunder Wave users, Choiced users have to be wary of Electric Moves (cutting down Voltturn) or Ground moves, since a free switch gives Landorus a chance to do serious damage even if he's not cleaning yet. Lack of LO recoil and immunity to Spikes (which some suicide leads like Skarm will try to lay) means Landorus can expect to have a decent enough amount of health in lategame even if he sees use earlier, as opposed to something like Gyarados having to be kept back due to SR weakness in base form.
Landorus's proficiency against offense is less as a sweeper and more as a cleaner needing minimal support and (compared to most) needing less health removed due to his high natural power. And this is in best case scenario. In a worst case, Landorus survives some surprisingly powerful neutral priority just by retaining 70% of his health (which amounts to 2 SR switch-ins), and has a surprising ability to survive a hit from Banded Azumarill.
And the big thing about RP Landorus is that he performs about as well as any cleaner, without sacrificing a great deal of his viability as a Balance Breaker (he loses coverage, but gains some decent power from the positive nature), since defensive cores have very little that outspeeds neutral-Speed vs Positive-Speed Landorus. It performs on the same level as other powerful Balance-Breakers like Zard-Y or Gardevoir, but it has less opportunity cost (no Mega Slot) with equal if not more absurd power, and can put in more work than them against other playstyles with the sets both parties would be comparing anyway.
As for a personal problem I take with an argument: Yes, Landorus can't run all 11 of his viable moves at once, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to run into them, and if Landorus is carrying a move you're not prepared for, that might make him ready to run over your team, or punch the holes for a teammate to. With Kyurem-B, even if the Sub and Choice Scarf sets play differently from the All-Out Attacker sets, they're still stopped by relatively similar things. A Landorus with Rock Slide gets around a completely different set of checks than with Knock Off. So you have to prepare for multiple Landorus variants to be sure you don't get jumped by the one that slipped through the cracks, which is a huge team building constraint.
The suspect ladder is a VERY rough idea of how the metagame is changed without the element being suspected. People flock to using more bulky teams because one of the biggest constraints on them are gone. It's mildly similar to new toy syndrome: something immediately became easier to use/more available (whether or not it is significantly better), so everyone immediately seeks to use it. It's the same way everyone flocked to Mega Gallade as a Medicham replacement, before deducing that it was more hype than outright improved viability. Balance/Bulky builds will have it easier, but there's no proof they'll be ridiculously huge in a post Landorus-I meta. And if they seem unbreakable, how long did it take people to innovate/change in response to other new meta threats, like finding Tank Chomp for things like Metagross, or bring back SpD Skarmory as a 1 slot answer to Gross, Diancie, Scizor, etc. The metagame can take time to adapt, more than the ladder allows.
And regardless, the concern is whether Landorus is bad for the metagame now. Even if the metagame without him isn't better, if Landorus is bad right now, we ban him and give the new meta time to settle. If the new meta is problematic, we'll suspect defensive threats in it then.
Landorus might be something later gens could make OU manageable, but for now, I don't think the Genie's fit to come out of the bottle.
