ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[Schpoonman]

Two nominations, both a little rough because I'm on my phone.

First, nominating Meloetta to rise to B+ or A- on the strength of its SubCM set. This set can't quite 6-0 stall but it uses bulky waters lacking Phazing and every defensive Fairy as massive set-up fodder, and between Psyshock, Hyper Voice, and Shadow Ball it has excellent coverage all while hitting absurdly hard. Basically, if you've reduced your opposing team to a bunch of bulky special attackers or slow physical attackers then SubCM Meloetta can sweep.

Nominating Nidoqueen to drop to B+ or A-. Mamoswine's drop, Feraligatr's rising usage, and the tier growing faster and more offensive in return means that Nidoqueen simply doesn't have the stones to cut it in this metagame like it used to. Bulky Offense and Balance are seeing drops in usage, Hyper Offense prefers Nidoking's higher Speed, and Stall hates stacking extra Pokemon weak to Mamoswine and Feraligatr that don't at least answer Pidgeot. Roserade challenges Nidoqueen's role as a Toxic Spike setter while also answering Suicune and somewhat answering Mamoswine and Feraligatr.

 

[Christo]

Nominating Nidoqueen to drop to B+ or A-. Mamoswine's drop, Feraligatr's rising usage, and the tier growing faster and more offensive in return means that Nidoqueen simply doesn't have the stones to cut it in this metagame like it used to. Bulky Offense and Balance are seeing drops in usage, Hyper Offense prefers Nidoking's higher Speed, and Stall hates stacking extra Pokemon weak to Mamoswine and Feraligatr that don't at least answer Pidgeot. Roserade challenges Nidoqueen's role as a Toxic Spike setter while also answering Suicune and somewhat answering Mamoswine and Feraligatr.

Dislike button where

 

[Sam]

For what it's worth, Nidoqueen is still generally the better choice on offense. While Nidoking is faster, Nidoqueen is able to soft check a lot of mons that offense would otherwise completely lose to (Lucario, Slurpuff, etc.) while also being much more reliable at setting up rocks. Mamo is annoying, yes, but it's just another revenge killer as it is definitely not able to switch in; offensive/balance teams have always had a nido check anyway. Gatr can be annoying but it's not like Nidoqueen is letting it set-up so it's again just a check. I don't think either of those mons have affected Nidoqueen's viability that much.

 

[Kink]

For what it's worth, Nidoqueen is still generally the better choice on offense. While Nidoking is faster, Nidoqueen is able to soft check a lot of mons that offense would otherwise completely lose to (Lucario, Slurpuff, etc.) while also being much more reliable at setting up rocks. Mamo is annoying, yes, but it's just another revenge killer as it is definitely not able to switch in; offensive/balance teams have always had a nido check anyway. Gatr can be annoying but it's not like Nidoqueen is letting it set-up so it's again just a check. I don't think either of those mons have affected Nidoqueen's viability that much.

I agree, leave queen alone fools. If you need team ideas partner with Tailwind Whims for god sakes.

 

[BenzMafia]

Haxorus to --> B-
The discussion started when someone asked why it is sitting at B+ when it is outclassed by other dragons and people replied it can run SD+LO set which is true but tbh that should be the reasoning why it is not D rank. Early ORAS Haxorus was only B ranked and that is before Salamence hit the floor. I don't know why it moved up a rank in the first place but its rank being so high is unjustified.

Noivern to --> C
Do anyone even use this anymore? As a dragon type it is outclassed so hard by others. I guees it is a flying type that actually has coverage unlike Pidgeot-M but still Tornadus can do that role as well who can also go mixed w/Superpower and Knock Off. Its stallbreaker set w/taunt is also done better by Tornadus or Crobat. The only reason i'm not nominating it to be unranked is its speed stat lets it revenge kill Azelf, Pidgeot-M and the non existing Houndoom-M.

Cacturne to --> C
This guys main niche was to cockblock one of the best pokemon in the tier at the time when it was ranked, Slowbro. After OU stole it poor cactus lost its viability and got kicked out of the list. But these days are over now that Slowking has gain popularity. You may think "I can use Hydreigon if i want to hard wall Slowking." but Hydrei needs to get some flinches or a crit if Slowking gets couple calm minds beforehand (specially if it is the scarf set) while cacturne is actually immune to any hit CM Slowking wants to throw at it also can boost alongside it. That's why i think it deserves to come back to the list.


Other nominations that has been discussed at previous pages but got ignored or forgotten for some reason:

Tentacruel to --> A-
Umbreon to --> B+
Blissey to --> B/B+
Pidgeot-M to --> S

 

[Malin]

Other nominations that has been discussed at previous pages but got ignored or forgotten for some reason:

Tentacruel to --> A-
Umbreon to --> B+
Blissey to --> B/B+
Pidgeot-M to --> S

I gotta say that I'm kind of disapointed with this VR council. Those discussions (and even others) have occured for a long time, and overall, on this thread as well over the forums/chats, we have all an agreement about how those changes needs to happen (especially Mega Burd rise to S Rank imo). No one shows counter arguments for these noms but rather they seem to be simply ignored by this council. Meanwhile things like Hydreigon rise to S Rank and Mence drops to A+, which were never discussed before, and I am not eve sure I agree with.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

I gotta say that I'm kind of disapointed with this VR council. Those discussions (and even others) have occured for a long time, and overall, on this thread as well over the forums/chats, we have all an agreement about how those changes needs to happen (especially Mega Burd rise to S Rank imo). No one shows counter arguments for these noms but rather they seem to be simply ignored by this council. Meanwhile things like Hydreigon rise to S Rank and Mence drops to A+, which were never discussed before, and I am not eve sure I agree with.

Literally am rising from my grave just to agree

 

[Garnet til Alexandros]

Mega Bird deserves S, for all the reasons people have stated. I also support the move up for Snorlax to A+ which didn't really get noticed.

 

[ChinChinLives]

Kingdra to B/B+

Kinda controversial, but it's a Great Hydra, gatr, queen and entei check. Rain/ agility just plows through offense lol. Also I'm sure you guys know how well it does with stall lol.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Kingdra to B/B+

Kinda controversial, but it's a Great Hydra, gatr, queen and entei check. Rain/ agility just plows through offense lol. Also I'm sure you guys know how well it does with stall lol.

I was actually just thinking about Kingdra. The thing is that mega swampert outclasses its physical rain dance as a stab eq and more attack is better than outrage. Its dd set is outclassed by other dd dragons and the niche water stab isnt worth it. Its special rain dance can be easily walled by a very common florges and or a bulky water type. The only thing it kinda has is the crappy focus energy set that is ass weak when you dont have the fe up. Basically its not viable in UU. Wouldnt be shocked if it went unranked....

 

[Schpoonman]

Guys, I was wrong. SubCM Meloetta CAN 6-0 Stall.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-235553816

 

[Lapras!]

I feel like this thread is getting flooded with nominations that aren't getting resolved... so I'll just say that I think B is a better fit for haxorus, since it's actually really good at breaking stall, much better than the other dragons. That's a solid niche to have in a meta where stall is quite common, and importantly stall teams don't prep to much for it because haxorus is pretty uncommon in high ladder.

 

[Bouff]

i agree that hax is damn good at breaking stall, but i don't think stall itself is that common...although, i do think haxorus is a really underappreciated mon that's a pretty powerful sweeper if paired up with wallbreakers like cb entei or specs yan. realistically when you compare it to dd mence though, it does worse vs every other playstyle, since intimidate lets mence have more set up opportunities than hax would, and outspeeding scarfdrei / tying with other scarf 100s (so, shaymin basically) is actually huge, while with hax you get outsped by both even at +1 unless they're running modest, which they rarely do, making mence better in most cases. hax still has its positives though i think, and i think it's a better sweeper than fletch or virizion who are both sitting in b-, so i think B is probably a nice place to put it.

 

[DaSpoofy]

i agree that hax is damn good at breaking stall, but i don't think stall itself is that common...although, i do think haxorus is a really underappreciated mon that's a pretty powerful sweeper if paired up with wallbreakers like cb entei or specs yan. realistically when you compare it to dd mence though, it does worse vs every other playstyle, since intimidate lets mence have more set up opportunities than hax would, and outspeeding scarfdrei / tying with other scarf 100s (so, shaymin basically) is actually huge, while with hax you get outsped by both even at +1 unless they're running modest, which they rarely do, making mence better in most cases. hax still has its positives though i think, and i think it's a better sweeper than fletch or virizion who are both sitting in b-, so i think B is probably a nice place to put it.

Stall is taking a massive rise in popularity thanks to Serperior for Uber being high on ladder with stall, Hogg, and TewMew 's performance in lower tier tours. Lapras! Continues to promote it on the forums and on showdown. Very popular playstyle around 1500's. Realized this after the first 8 games I played, 5 of them were against stall teams. I think people are realizing the effectiveness it brings against the average balance team. Stall is also pretty fun to use

 

[Serperior for Uber]

Ok so I just wanted to bring a sleeper mon up here just because people don't even remeber it exists: Lickiliky

For C-Rank

I've used Lickilikky for a few games now and it is a very serviceable cleric. It also has reasonable bulk in a 110/95/95 defenses Why use it over Blissey over Florges you ask? It has access to the ability Own Tempo so it can avoid the confuse from Mega-Pidge and can effectively wall it while also fishing for body slam paras. This isn't really a serious "Lickiliky for S rank stuff" but just to let people know that Lickiliky can handle Mega-bird if you are seriously desperate enough.

 

[Master B8s]

Ok so I just wanted to bring a sleeper mon up here just because people don't even remeber it exists: Lickiliky

For C-Rank

I've used Lickilikky for a few games now and it is a very serviceable cleric. It also has reasonable bulk in a 110/95/95 defenses Why use it over Blissey over Florges you ask? It has access to the ability Own Tempo so it can avoid the confuse from Mega-Pidge and can effectively wall it while also fishing for body slam paras. This isn't really a serious "Lickiliky for S rank stuff" but just to let people know that Lickiliky can handle Mega-bird if you are seriously desperate enough.

Should oblivious be mentioned anywhere? If you're mentioning a cleric set, having the ability to not be taunted and always get off a wish/heal beal can be big. A problem I could see with lickylicky is its normal typing lacks resistances, and while it does have nice 110/95/95, it won't have any resistances to take advantage of. Not to mention UU has quite a few fighting types that would be a pretty free switch into him. I've used lickylicky in NU and it is fat, but I'm not sure how well it fairs in UU, but i might give it a try.

 

[Cynde]

Ok so I just wanted to bring a sleeper mon up here just because people don't even remeber it exists: Lickiliky

For C-Rank

I've used Lickilikky for a few games now and it is a very serviceable cleric. It also has reasonable bulk in a 110/95/95 defenses Why use it over Blissey over Florges you ask? It has access to the ability Own Tempo so it can avoid the confuse from Mega-Pidge and can effectively wall it while also fishing for body slam paras. This isn't really a serious "Lickiliky for S rank stuff" but just to let people know that Lickiliky can handle Mega-bird if you are seriously desperate enough.

+1 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 207-244 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
rip if sub
nice counter nerd

 

[ChilliTacos]

Hi guys. Why isn't Mamoswine S? It's a fantastic SR setter and cal also be a life orb sweeper. (That life orb set is damn powerful.) So what is holding it back from S rank? It Seems like a good pokemon overall. I have used it in my teams a lot and it has always impressed me. Is there like a solid check to it? If so tell me so i can use it. But still i'm nominating Mamoswine for S rank for the reasons above.

 

[feen]

Hi guys. Why isn't Mamoswine S? It's a fantastic SR setter and cal also be a life orb sweeper. (That life orb set is damn powerful.) So what is holding it back from S rank? It Seems like a good pokemon overall. I have used it in my teams a lot and it has always impressed me. Is there like a solid check to it? If so tell me so i can use it. But still i'm nominating Mamoswine for S rank for the reasons above.

I suggest looking one or two pages backwards there has been elaborate discussions about Mamoswine

 

[Pipotchi]

Should oblivious be mentioned anywhere? If you're mentioning a cleric set, having the ability to not be taunted and always get off a wish/heal beal can be big. A problem I could see with lickylicky is its normal typing lacks resistances, and while it does have nice 110/95/95, it won't have any resistances to take advantage of. Not to mention UU has quite a few fighting types that would be a pretty free switch into him. I've used lickylicky in NU and it is fat, but I'm not sure how well it fairs in UU, but i might give it a try.

I swear lickilicky was part of a successful UU team at some point? (wow such clear and concise input from me)
But ya, its strength in UU is surely as a wall which can't be taunted, but then theres serious competition from Aromatisse for that. Infact I really cant see a reason to go Oblivious Lickilicky over Aromatisse unless you desperately need the poison and steel neutrality.

Ive been trying to get familiar with Pidgeot a lot, and I have to say I seriously dont understand the value of the refresh/roost/work up set. I found so few opportunities to ever set up with it, taking absurd damage from even very defensive mons like Florges or defensive water types who still were looking at 50% with scald + burns. Moonblasts from defensive fairies were also lowering my special attack about as much as I was able to raise it too. I just couldnt muscle through them. Can someone give me some insight? Mono-flying type attacks were okay too but it was hard to sweep through more than 1 mon once I revealed the set too. Am I using a set with huge reliable sweeping potential very wrong or am I just expecting too much from something which is pretty niche? Also from experience, the 15% chance of getting through a wall by causing confuse and them then hitting themselves has never pulled through for me yet, it doesnt seem like a very reliable strength to me. I appreciate the revenge killing ability and speed tier though, just wondering about that refresh set in particular.

 

[YABO]

Lickilicky isn't C rank material. Dodging Taunt is cool but there are already two Specially Defensive normal types that surpass its usefulness on stall tenfold. Snorlax provides a great win condition against a whole heap of teams and Blissey's crazy special bulk is invaluable on stall teams. Stall itself is already not the best right now with stuff like Mamo and Gatr threatening the hell out of it and adding a weak link to the team to dodge Taunt is kind of a silly proposition. You'd be better off using Aromatisse in this case.

 

[Ducem]

So, UU council...I've noticed Snorlax hasn't moved to A+ yet. Did I mention that this is a good looking forum? It'd be quite a shame if something happened to it...
Jkjk, anyways, I think a few of us have been supporting Snorlax 2: the rise of Snorlax and none have dared to oppose it. I don't think I need to explain why at this point (no point sounding like a broken record). But I am going to keep nailing this point on the head until it happens... So, SNORLAX FOR A+ PLEASE

 

[DaSpoofy]

Heyo can we hyper link the names of pokemon to their analysis? I know some are outdated but we can put a * next to those. I can get started on the pokemon without a recent analysis. It woould be really helpful for new players and tournament jumpers that dont know the tier. Also if we could post the most recent usage stats along with the pokes I believe we can make the tier a lot easier to comprehend!

Edit: if not then I believe a new thread should be started to better comprehend the tier (Christo's Idea)

 

[Machi]

Heyo can we hyper link the names of pokemon to their analysis? I know some are outdated but we can put a * next to those. I can get started on the pokemon without a recent analysis. It woould be really helpful for new players and tournament jumpers that dont know the tier. Also if we could post the most recent usage stats along with the pokes I believe we can make the tier a lot easier to comprehend!

Edit: if not then I believe a new thread should be started to better comprehend the tier (Christo's Idea)

I think the problem stems from formatting issues... like in OU for instance there is something that comes up when you do a hyperlink that at times it only follows one link... So it becomes irksome to fix because you need to do so manually again. It happens even when you just post direct links, happens with replays.

 

[Kurona]

Heyo can we hyper link the names of pokemon to their analysis? I know some are outdated but we can put a * next to those. I can get started on the pokemon without a recent analysis. It woould be really helpful for new players and tournament jumpers that dont know the tier. Also if we could post the most recent usage stats along with the pokes I believe we can make the tier a lot easier to comprehend!

Edit: if not then I believe a new thread should be started to better comprehend the tier (Christo's Idea)

There's little point, it'd just be a hassle, and we might as well just link the smogdex above. It's like Milotic; good idea in theory, really bad and redundant in practise.