ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2

[Yugi]

Yes i do believe that Jolteon deserves a raise,but that doesnt make him any better than Heliolisk,it does stop voltswitch,but heliolisk is not hit super effective by it,and yes it has a niche of outspeeding of many things,or speed tieing with base 130 ones,but that doesnt make him better than him.Lets look at the abilities Volt Absorb vs Dry Skin,

Volt Absorb:Gives health when hitten by an electric move.

Dry Skin:gains health when hitten by water,and boosts fire damage from opponents

They have the same abilities looken over by a different perspective.

Volt absorb stops volt switch aswell as other electric moves,Dry skin stops Crocune with Scald completely.

they seem to be identical.Now lets look into the movepool.

Lets be fair,jolteons movepool isnt near as good as how Heliolisks.

Grass Knot,Surf,Hyper Voice over Signal Beam.

Jolteon should deserve a raise but it definitely shouldnt be as high as Heliolisk

 

[Ducem]

Mega Aerodactyl's actually do run max speed now

Oh, well I surprisingly haven't faced one in quite some time. But, at the same time, I'm not sure you'd want to risk a speed tie with Jolteon. Granted, Jolteon doesn't want to risk a speed tie with aerodactyl either. but if I was the one using Jolteon, I would chance it if it meant possibly taking out aero.

 

[lllg17]

Which is why helio is higher on the viability rankings. Jolteon needs a rise because it has a niche in outspeeding a few key threats that helio simply can't do (namely mega pidgeot). And it can stop momentum with volt absorb. It may not be better than helio in general, but it still deserves that rise. And before I forget, in regards to mega aerodactyl. Mega aero doesn't run max speed, meaning you either have to run protect for a safe mega evolution (lol) or just not use aero while Jolteon's on the floor, unless you want to take a thunderbolt to the face.

In regards to your Mega Aero claim, you're describing a scenario in which someone leaves an Aerodactyl in against a Jolteon, which is preposterous. And just because Jolteon CAN be better than helio, it doesn't mean that it should deserve a rise in the viability rankings as it is overshadowed by multiple other fast threats that can deal with M-Pidge like Noivern which this nomination was based off of. It simply doesn't fit the criteria of a "B-ranked" mon. Read the description and see for yourself. Jolteon is not "good" in the UU metagame. It is OK, just like any of the other C rank mons. It fits the description perfectly *coughs unlike Espeon *coughs.

 

[Malin]

I'd like to say that even a speedtie with M-Aero is huge to Jolteon rising. First, I'll give you an example. LO Azelf has been a trend last weeks over ladder, after Zam got OUt, and that really sucks to my Mega Pidgeot. There were two games I remember losing because my opponent simply didn't let me mega evolve. I couldn't kill opposing threats that should be easier, like Galvantula and Azelf itself and from then I lost.

Although I don't see too much Mega Aero those days, I can see some teambuildings falling down simply because Mega Aero can't evolve, since he usually is a key mon when build around. Also, there are two things to take in account. About 60% of Mega Aero in 1760 stats do not use EQ as a coverage move. Others 17% do not run max speed Jolly. And between those not using EQ, they have to rely in a 80% acc move that have 62.5% chance to OHKO.

252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 253-298 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

If they both come in turn 1, I think the odds are in Jolteon's favor.

Btw I don't think anyone is arguing that Jolteon is better than Heliolisk, which is not. It's just that Jolteon deserves a rise to B- rank. It doesn't require extensive support to be played, while having some useful niches.

 

[Wanka]

The thing with most C ranks mons, and in jolteons case is that the C rank mons tend to have competition that with higher ranked pokemon that are just simply better and I think that's what people are getting at with the heliolisk argument. Now I personally don't really like helio that much because it dies to a cold breeze, but it does perform better than jolteon with dry skin and having a powerful duel stab combo.

Heliolisk is a good pokemon in the underused metagame but not great which is why its close to moving down to B+ because it fits the B rank definition much better.

Jolteon's small niche is outspeeding some key threats. Heliolisk and jolteon really cant switch in on any offensive threat but helio does find its way in a lot more with its ability which is why jolteon fails to compete with heliolisk because jolteon has almost 0 opportunities to get in safely and rotom cut is by far a more common and better mon for volt turn so I don't see that being a great reasoning as well. Aero does not really have a tough time mega evolving as well so I don't see "oh it speed ties reg aero" being that big of a deal because the rolls for stone edge are in your favor and aero simply just doesn't have trouble mega evolving as far as I've seen.

The competition with heliolisk and rotom are really what is keeping jolteon at C rank because it simply just fits the C rank definition better. I wouldn't be extremely quick to say it is a good pokemon which is what B rank mons are. It isn't aweful, but it does not have as many positive aspects to it to make it considered good in my opinion.

 

[Amire]

Is there any particular reason why Aromatisse is B rank, while Florges is A rank? I've been running a psysically defensive Aromatisse lately with fantastic success! It's able to outright counter most of the higher ranked physical attackers here (Except for Setup sweepers like Feraligatr and Mega Beedril) while still being surprisingly specialy bulky. It can also pass much better wishes. I find Aromatisse in fact outclassing Florges in most cases.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Is there any particular reason why Aromatisse is B rank, while Florges is A rank? I've been running a psysically defensive Aromatisse lately with fantastic success! It's able to outright counter most of the higher ranked physical attackers here (Except for Setup sweepers like Feraligatr and Mega Beedril) while still being surprisingly specialy bulky. It can also pass much better wishes. I find Aromatisse in fact outclassing Florges in most cases.

Florges's selling points are that it has far superior special bulk; so much, that it can concentrate on physical investment for more overall resilience. It is much, much faster than Aromatisse, too. Even if it's by no means a speed demon, Florges is capable of outpacing much more than Aromatisse (who's pretty much guaranteed to always go last because of its pathetic 29 Speed). On top of all that, Florges can run a great offensive CM set that boasts great resilience and power on the special side, while boasting enough coverage to sweep/clean late-game.

On a side note; this accidentally got posted incomplete because I somehow hit tab and it confirmed to post. Apologies.

 

[r0ady]

Is there any particular reason why Aromatisse is B rank, while Florges is A rank? I've been running a psysically defensive Aromatisse lately with fantastic success! It's able to outright counter most of the higher ranked physical attackers here (Except for Setup sweepers like Feraligatr and Mega Beedril) while still being surprisingly specialy bulky. It can also pass much better wishes. I find Aromatisse in fact outclassing Florges in most cases.

All the above points while also having access to synthesis and much stronger moonblasts, aromatisse for the most part struggles with special attackers while florg has very little trouble with even zero investment in special bulk

 

[YABO]

All the above points while also having access to synthesis and much stronger moonblasts, aromatisse for the most part struggles with special attackers while florg has very little trouble with even zero investment in special bulk

Blastoise is the main reason tbh. Aroma can take on a fair few Special attackers thanks to its really good HP stat and pretty solid Special bulk uninvested but it gets bodied by Blastoise which is huge.

 

[Adaam]

Most of the stuff has already been said about Aromatissee but yeah Florges checks most of the things Aromatissee does while also handling many more special attackers that Aromatissee can't (as Yabo said, Mega Blastoise is a big one). The main niches Aromatissee has is superior physical bulk which allows it to handle Heracross, Salamence, Mega Sharpedo, Krookodile etc better and it can't be taunted

 

[dingbat]

Expect the UU vr curse to continue @_@

New thread + changes happening soon!

 

[IronBullet]

fuga is taking over, so locking this. Aim of the new thread is to beat Limitless' record of six months :P