idk if CroBro is still used that much(havent seen it lately) but the CM Slack Psyshock Scald variant beats it 1v1 unless roar
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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]
- Thread starter bb skarm
- Start date
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The thing is, these builds won't be rendered useless unless against Mega Volcano - remember that it occupies the Mega slot, and isn't suddenly going to get used far more than Lopunny, Metagross, Altaria and Gyarados. What Desolate Land does is to provide a reason to use it as your Mega, but it still only fits on certain types of teams, and implies an opportunity cost because of its speed.
Solar Power has a benefit in being a 100% accurate move, if thats anything; although I agree that aside from bulky waters it's not much use, even putting wanting to hit rotom-w aside.
Damn, I really like this slate. They're all awesome! Props to the council. Now I'll speak my mind on the four in turn, but hopefully it'll be in-depth enough to avoid angering the head guys?
Mega Banette + Fighting/Ghost type and Drain Punch: Sexy. Ghost/Fighting is the last ability-unaided unresisted STAB combo, and it's about time someone got it. Banette's physical movepool is admittedly a little barren, but it has everything it needs in Shadow Claw, Drain Punch and his choice of support move from Taunt, Wisp and DBond. It's the latter that especially draws me, considering its low speed, it can be a pretty good last hurrah after getting in and doing its job, especially against offense. Prankster Wisp is also a great stop to faster offense mons, but then there's Taunt for Stall. Overall, I see it most as a stop against setup sweepers, being able to stop them from setting up, burning them and, if everything else fails, taking them with it, and recovering damage from switching in with Drain Punch. Fighting is also not bad defensively, most crucially eliminating its Dark weakness. Notably, it easily lives Pursuits from things like ScarfTar and Bisharp, and Drain Punch cleanly OHKOes both while healing plenty. And its speed tier is not really crowded, so it can afford to run Adamant.
As for sets, a 252 HP / 80 Def (or 252/8 with Impish) spread allows it to always live +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados' Waterfall, so it can Drain Punch back and finish it off with Shadow Sneak. Rather specific case, though (as good as M-Gyara is), so maybe just going all-out offensive and trusting Wisp to pseudo-patch up defenses may be best. Other than that, it can beat 1v1 stuff like MegaLop, TankChomp (burn then stave off recoil with Drain Punch), Heatran and Weavile to give some examples. Really it gets a pretty good matchup against all archetypes, I think, it won't be sweeping teams but with STAB Drain Punch it can survive a lot longer to provide its annoyance more thoroughly.
Braviary + Extreme Speed:
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 165-195 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Literally stronger than EKiller. GG, OU. But for real, ESpeed has been dying for a good abuser (sorry Dragonite, Lucario). Between STAB, Braviary's great Attack and most importantly its +2 priority, I can see it being a real threat. Braviary has Superpower for rocks and steels, so while a Choiced set might be unoptimal, a Life Orb (or Silk Scarf) patches that up. So, given that ESpeed's main draw is to outprioritize, let's see how it fares against some of OU's top priority:
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 207-244 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 201-237 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 181-214 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (needs a Band to reliably beat Belly Drum without prior damage, but given that it's a great RK option)
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 181-214 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lives Ice Shard anyway)
And against some faster threats:
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 174-205 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 181-214 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 271-319 (96.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (my personal favorite -- go Defiant)
Though a Banded Adamant set might be more of a draw, given that it ensures several kills without the need for rocks and turns some 2HKOs into OHKOs against frailer targets (does 99% against Talonflame). However, the wallability of a Choiced Normal type would force a lot of switches, and you don't want that with a SR weakness. At any rate, great fun. Now if it only got Swords Dance.
Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land: Probably my favorite here, and this is the best slate we've had in a while. If anyone was going to get one of the uber abilities it would be Mega Camerupt (seriously, why wasn't it the one to get Drought? Whatever). This would be a truly unique niche in that it destroys Rain completely (outside of Swampert). Water immunity, un-interruptable Solarbeam and only one weakness as well as permanent sun? Sign me up.
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Harsh Sunshine: 280-330 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery <-- real as fuck
That aside, it'd be really, really hard to switch into between Ground, Grass and boosted Fire coverage. Not much else to add, it'd be totally unique and a great Scald switchin (of which there are always needed) once it Mega Evolved without being broken because literally everything outspeeds it and any stray Ground moves obliterate it. Great choice.
Noivern + Fiery Dance: Poor old bat. Always one of my favorites, always outclassed. But until he gets Aerilate (YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO), he'll most likely stay that way. I can see the merit in using his great speed and passable special attack to clean after a boost or two (and his Flamethrower wasn't blowing any minds anyway, it isn't even a guaranteed OHKO on Ferro), but it's a bit too luck-reliant for my taste. Yeah, 50% = 100%, but that's when you're not banking on it. As it stands, if he doesn't get that boost you'll have a hard time cleaning up, and between it and Hurricane's 70% accuracy you have a fair chance of getting screwed over by the RNG. I still like this nom, but it got thrown in with a lot of harsh competition. Sorry batsy, you'll get your chance another day.
(And I'm really liking the new allowance for double buffs. Expect to get hit with another wall of proposals in the near future, council >:D )
Mega Banette + Fighting/Ghost type and Drain Punch: Sexy. Ghost/Fighting is the last ability-unaided unresisted STAB combo, and it's about time someone got it. Banette's physical movepool is admittedly a little barren, but it has everything it needs in Shadow Claw, Drain Punch and his choice of support move from Taunt, Wisp and DBond. It's the latter that especially draws me, considering its low speed, it can be a pretty good last hurrah after getting in and doing its job, especially against offense. Prankster Wisp is also a great stop to faster offense mons, but then there's Taunt for Stall. Overall, I see it most as a stop against setup sweepers, being able to stop them from setting up, burning them and, if everything else fails, taking them with it, and recovering damage from switching in with Drain Punch. Fighting is also not bad defensively, most crucially eliminating its Dark weakness. Notably, it easily lives Pursuits from things like ScarfTar and Bisharp, and Drain Punch cleanly OHKOes both while healing plenty. And its speed tier is not really crowded, so it can afford to run Adamant.
As for sets, a 252 HP / 80 Def (or 252/8 with Impish) spread allows it to always live +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados' Waterfall, so it can Drain Punch back and finish it off with Shadow Sneak. Rather specific case, though (as good as M-Gyara is), so maybe just going all-out offensive and trusting Wisp to pseudo-patch up defenses may be best. Other than that, it can beat 1v1 stuff like MegaLop, TankChomp (burn then stave off recoil with Drain Punch), Heatran and Weavile to give some examples. Really it gets a pretty good matchup against all archetypes, I think, it won't be sweeping teams but with STAB Drain Punch it can survive a lot longer to provide its annoyance more thoroughly.
Braviary + Extreme Speed:
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 165-195 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Literally stronger than EKiller. GG, OU. But for real, ESpeed has been dying for a good abuser (sorry Dragonite, Lucario). Between STAB, Braviary's great Attack and most importantly its +2 priority, I can see it being a real threat. Braviary has Superpower for rocks and steels, so while a Choiced set might be unoptimal, a Life Orb (or Silk Scarf) patches that up. So, given that ESpeed's main draw is to outprioritize, let's see how it fares against some of OU's top priority:
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 207-244 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 201-237 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 181-214 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (needs a Band to reliably beat Belly Drum without prior damage, but given that it's a great RK option)
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 181-214 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lives Ice Shard anyway)
And against some faster threats:
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 174-205 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 181-214 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Silk Scarf Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 271-319 (96.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (my personal favorite -- go Defiant)
Though a Banded Adamant set might be more of a draw, given that it ensures several kills without the need for rocks and turns some 2HKOs into OHKOs against frailer targets (does 99% against Talonflame). However, the wallability of a Choiced Normal type would force a lot of switches, and you don't want that with a SR weakness. At any rate, great fun. Now if it only got Swords Dance.
Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land: Probably my favorite here, and this is the best slate we've had in a while. If anyone was going to get one of the uber abilities it would be Mega Camerupt (seriously, why wasn't it the one to get Drought? Whatever). This would be a truly unique niche in that it destroys Rain completely (outside of Swampert). Water immunity, un-interruptable Solarbeam and only one weakness as well as permanent sun? Sign me up.
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Harsh Sunshine: 280-330 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery <-- real as fuck
That aside, it'd be really, really hard to switch into between Ground, Grass and boosted Fire coverage. Not much else to add, it'd be totally unique and a great Scald switchin (of which there are always needed) once it Mega Evolved without being broken because literally everything outspeeds it and any stray Ground moves obliterate it. Great choice.
Noivern + Fiery Dance: Poor old bat. Always one of my favorites, always outclassed. But until he gets Aerilate (YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO), he'll most likely stay that way. I can see the merit in using his great speed and passable special attack to clean after a boost or two (and his Flamethrower wasn't blowing any minds anyway, it isn't even a guaranteed OHKO on Ferro), but it's a bit too luck-reliant for my taste. Yeah, 50% = 100%, but that's when you're not banking on it. As it stands, if he doesn't get that boost you'll have a hard time cleaning up, and between it and Hurricane's 70% accuracy you have a fair chance of getting screwed over by the RNG. I still like this nom, but it got thrown in with a lot of harsh competition. Sorry batsy, you'll get your chance another day.
(And I'm really liking the new allowance for double buffs. Expect to get hit with another wall of proposals in the near future, council >:D )
I guess I could dump a couple quick cores of things jumping to mind.
Hazard stacking Hyper Offense Core
Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head / Whirlwind
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Pursuit
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head / Whirlwind
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Pursuit
A hazard stacking hyper offense core. I’m not actually certain what the standard Custap Skarmory set is so if this is wrong I’ll change it, but the concept of the set is to be as frail and fast as possible to out speed taunters and get knocked into Custap range easily. Custap Berry + Sturdy will get your hazards up 9/10 times, usually resulting in SR and 1 layer of spikes. That said though, if the opponent chooses to set up their own SR 1st turn you may even get 2 or more layers of spikes. Brave Bird is Skarmory’s strongest STAB should it feel the need to attack. It also has recoil which allows Skarmory to kill itself form low health in order to bring in a hyper offense mon safely. I wasn’t sure what is usually run in the last slot. Iron Head out speeds and OHKOs Diancie as it mega evolves to try bounce hazards. Whirlwind is for if the opposing lead feels free to boost its stats while you stack hazards.
Which brings as to Mega Banette. This Mega Banette set has great synergy with Custap Skarmory or any hazard stacker for that matter, as it can prevent the hazards from being removed rather effectively. Being a ghost type of course means that Banette is able to prevent the use of Rapid Spin, and Prankster Taunt allows it to also prevent the use of defog. With its new STAB combo, Mega Banette is able to hit some of the most common hazard removers super effectively too, such as Excadrill, Starmie, Lati@s, Mew and Empoleon. Meaning so long as Mega Banette is in play, you can be fairly sure that these things won’t be daring to switch in, and you keep your hazards. In fact any hazard remover attempting to come in can’t do so without getting bopped neutrally, which is gonna still hit pretty hard with 165 Atk, and Taunted. 252+ attack is used to make the most of those unresisted STABs and 165 Atk. It also increases the amount of recovery from Drain Punch. 252 HP is used so that Mega Banette can actually survive some attacks, allowing it to better Drain Punch, and actually get to low HP before resorting to Destiny Bond. The speed is too low to bother investing especially when you have some priority anyway, but 4 points are put into it in order to creep Klefki, so it can be taunted (credit to SparksBlade for the speed). Shadow Claw and Drain Punch are the most powerful STAB options and provide perfects coverage allowing Banette to use its last slots to abuse Prankster. Drain Punch also of cause provide nice sustain. Prankster Destiny Bond is epic for a hyper offense mon as it almost guarantees that you will bring down at least 1 pokemon with you, and it also allows you to stop an opposing sweeper should you misplay and let it set up to a point where it would otherwise 6-0 you. The last slot has a few options. Taunt is the 1st choice as it prevents Defog which fulfill’s its roll within the core. It also screws over Stall completely and stops set up mons and opposing hazards. Will-O-Wisp is however a very viable option, particularly vs Balance teams. Bulkier mons would never be able to break Banette between Burn, 252 HP and STAB Drain Punch. It also helps shut down physical attackers on Balance, or Hyper Offense. The last option but probably least valuable is Pursuit, as it allows you to 1HKO Latios as it tries to flee in fear of dying to Destiny Bond.
Good partner to core? Extreme Speed Braviary :’(
Which brings as to Mega Banette. This Mega Banette set has great synergy with Custap Skarmory or any hazard stacker for that matter, as it can prevent the hazards from being removed rather effectively. Being a ghost type of course means that Banette is able to prevent the use of Rapid Spin, and Prankster Taunt allows it to also prevent the use of defog. With its new STAB combo, Mega Banette is able to hit some of the most common hazard removers super effectively too, such as Excadrill, Starmie, Lati@s, Mew and Empoleon. Meaning so long as Mega Banette is in play, you can be fairly sure that these things won’t be daring to switch in, and you keep your hazards. In fact any hazard remover attempting to come in can’t do so without getting bopped neutrally, which is gonna still hit pretty hard with 165 Atk, and Taunted. 252+ attack is used to make the most of those unresisted STABs and 165 Atk. It also increases the amount of recovery from Drain Punch. 252 HP is used so that Mega Banette can actually survive some attacks, allowing it to better Drain Punch, and actually get to low HP before resorting to Destiny Bond. The speed is too low to bother investing especially when you have some priority anyway, but 4 points are put into it in order to creep Klefki, so it can be taunted (credit to SparksBlade for the speed). Shadow Claw and Drain Punch are the most powerful STAB options and provide perfects coverage allowing Banette to use its last slots to abuse Prankster. Drain Punch also of cause provide nice sustain. Prankster Destiny Bond is epic for a hyper offense mon as it almost guarantees that you will bring down at least 1 pokemon with you, and it also allows you to stop an opposing sweeper should you misplay and let it set up to a point where it would otherwise 6-0 you. The last slot has a few options. Taunt is the 1st choice as it prevents Defog which fulfill’s its roll within the core. It also screws over Stall completely and stops set up mons and opposing hazards. Will-O-Wisp is however a very viable option, particularly vs Balance teams. Bulkier mons would never be able to break Banette between Burn, 252 HP and STAB Drain Punch. It also helps shut down physical attackers on Balance, or Hyper Offense. The last option but probably least valuable is Pursuit, as it allows you to 1HKO Latios as it tries to flee in fear of dying to Destiny Bond.
Good partner to core? Extreme Speed Braviary :’(
Dangerous Dual Fire Balance Core
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Stealth Rock / Filler
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Stealth Rock / Filler
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance
They may both be fire type but these two have epic type synergy, sharing 0 weaknesses, and covering each other nicely. Talonflame is immune to Mega Camerupt’s only weakness in Ground, while Mega Camerupt is immune to both Water and Electric for Talonflame. In fact Mega Camerupt has the potential to break past and 2HKO every single one of Talonflame’s switch ins, while simultaneously cock blocking any water and electric type that tries to get anything done vs Talonflame. This is turn allows Talonflame to set up and sweep very effectively. Likewise Talonflame can use a few Mega Camerupt switch ins as set up fodder and proceed to KO them such as Malt, the blobs and Ballon Heatran.
Camerupt’s set maxes its SpA fore maximum damage output. HP is also maxed is order to allow Camerupt to utilise its semi decent bulk and epic set of resistances and immunities to take some hits. Mega Camerupt’s speed is pretty much the lowest in the tier so there is no point investing. Fire Blast nukes everything in sun, and Earth Power is there for secondary STAB. Solar Beam is really good for making short work of the many water types that Mega Camerupt counters. Last slot is open for what ever you want really, I’ve put SR as a solid option, given that it makes Camerupt and Talonflame even harder to come in on, and I figured Mega Camerupt would gets plenty of opportunities to set up SR with the switches it forces. Talonflame’s set is pretty standard SD. Attack is maxed with enough speed EVs to out run Thundurus, and the rest in HP to make setting up SD easier and allows Talonflame to stomach more recoil damage. Brave Bird is the obvious STAB move of choice with Sharp Beak and Gale Wings. Flare Blitz hits steel types, Roost recovers SR damage and helps set up vs weaker foes.
So basically the two just have epic type synergy, and Mega Camerupt can break past all of Talonflame’s counters.
It is absolutely mandatory for the rest of your team to have a reliable way of dealing with hazards, as SR wears these two down really fast. A reliable way of dealing with powerful Rock types like DD Mega T-Tar is also really handy.
Other than that this core gives you a lot of freedom as you can make you team as electric, fire, water, ground and burn weak as you like.
Camerupt’s set maxes its SpA fore maximum damage output. HP is also maxed is order to allow Camerupt to utilise its semi decent bulk and epic set of resistances and immunities to take some hits. Mega Camerupt’s speed is pretty much the lowest in the tier so there is no point investing. Fire Blast nukes everything in sun, and Earth Power is there for secondary STAB. Solar Beam is really good for making short work of the many water types that Mega Camerupt counters. Last slot is open for what ever you want really, I’ve put SR as a solid option, given that it makes Camerupt and Talonflame even harder to come in on, and I figured Mega Camerupt would gets plenty of opportunities to set up SR with the switches it forces. Talonflame’s set is pretty standard SD. Attack is maxed with enough speed EVs to out run Thundurus, and the rest in HP to make setting up SD easier and allows Talonflame to stomach more recoil damage. Brave Bird is the obvious STAB move of choice with Sharp Beak and Gale Wings. Flare Blitz hits steel types, Roost recovers SR damage and helps set up vs weaker foes.
So basically the two just have epic type synergy, and Mega Camerupt can break past all of Talonflame’s counters.
It is absolutely mandatory for the rest of your team to have a reliable way of dealing with hazards, as SR wears these two down really fast. A reliable way of dealing with powerful Rock types like DD Mega T-Tar is also really handy.
Other than that this core gives you a lot of freedom as you can make you team as electric, fire, water, ground and burn weak as you like.
EDIT: That was not quick... that took way too long. Let me know if there were any mistakes and I'll edit them later (Can't be bothered proof reading after hammering that out).
If I'm in a good mood I'll try come up with good partners for Braviary and Noivern too later.
Just wanted to mention Defiant Entei goes really well with the first core, and both are cool good job n_n
Excadrill is an excellent partner to these, removing hazardsa and 4x resisting strong rock moves that could do serious damage; Conk would be sexy for it as well, opening up options for TR support; Talon doesn't care about TR as it gets priority anyway.
Nice job!
Love the core, and Patolegend is right about Exca covering up the Rock problem, but the three of them have trouble handling EdgeQuake coverage. Really, anything with power and Rock coverage is gonna threaten the core. I would add a Ground resist to the core. I'm thinking Chesnaught would be amazing because of the Ground and Rock resists plus Spikes Support. Drain Punch scares the hell out of Mega Ttar, which definitely threatens the core.
I would also add a Fly check, because Flying/Fighting coverage (Pinsir) could rip this team apart.
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Your M-Camerupt calcs are wrong: You calced everything as if it had both Sheer Force and Desolate Land.
not going to make a huge post, but has anyone noticed that m-Camerupt gets solar beam to really hurt most ground types? That's a scary 120 bp coverage move for it. won't it only take one turn with desolate land?
sure! can I reserve Noivern and Megagross? Those two have great synergy.
Yeah, but STAB Fire Blast in harsh sunshine actually deals even more damage than Solar Beam against Ground-types, unless against Water/Ground-types and whatnot, and especially those who are neutral to Solar Beam like the Landos, Excadrill and others:
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon in Harsh Sunshine: 364-429 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 352-416 (83.8 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You should PM suggestions to council members instead of posting them in the thread. They look pretty cool thoughWorking on it.
This go around I'm Theorizing abilities.
Ideas for next slate: Will include calcs with each idea that involve an attacking buff.
What is Dedenne had Huge Power?
Dedenne has always been PU. It has a higher SpA Stat of 81 compared to 58 Atk and a decent speed of 101, putting it on par with Landorus, but that just doesn't cut it. However it has access to Play Rough and Wild Charge giving it two excellent STABs to take advantage of Huge Power. It also has U-Turn, Aerial Ace, and Dig as other physical coverage options. Pair this with an excellent defensive typing, only being weak to Ground and Poison its going to be a terror for slower teams as 101 isn't very fast. It's far from broken however as Ground-Types are everywhere and key threats are faster than it, easily defeating it with its poor bulk at 67/57/67 respectively.
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Dedenne Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 304-359 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
What if Mismagius had Shadow Tag?
Mismagius has forever lurked in NU only being used in higher tiers as a viable Ghost-Type with Levitate. However with Shadow Tag it would instantly be terror everywhere. With a base 105 SpA, SpD, and Speed its nothing to scoff at. It has a wide movepool having gems such as Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and even Perish Song allowing it to trap and efficiently Stallbreak. It's far from broken however as 105 base Speed is not as fast as it used to be and it has abysmal physical bulk at 60/60 respectively. However it'll be a nightmare for Stall and Balance teams.
What if Bastiodon had Filter/Solid Rock? And was changed to just a Steel Type instead of Rock/Steel Type?
Bastiodon isn't a terrible Pokemon per se. It's typing is Rock/Steel which isn't too bad and has 60/168/138 defensive stats paired with 52/47/30 offensive stats and speed. It has acess to Counter, Magic Coat, Stealth Rock, Metal Burst, Torment, and Taunt making it an excellent Utility Mon, but its abilities are its downfall. It has Sturdy and Soundproof. Sturdy is bad, but its defensive stats are too outrageous to take full advantage of it. With Filter/Solid Rock and a singular Steel Type its walling capabilities skyrocket allowing it to take comfortably wall anything to hell and back and even take a SE hit when needed.
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Filter Bastiodon: 242-287 (74.9 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery-->That's minimal defensive investment, kids.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Filter Bastiodon: 230-271 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's insane!
What if Lickilicky had Unaware?
Lickilicky has great bulk at 110/95/95, surpassing other Unaware Walls Clefable and Quagsire. It has access to Wish, Icy Wind, Amnesia, Knock Off, Dragon Tail, Heal Bell, Curse, and Refresh meaning it can fit the Cleric, WishPasser, Support and Bulky Phaser role pretty well. Its original abilities Cloud Nine, Oblivious, and Own Tempo are quite lackluster and Unaware would fit it better in the flavor sense as well. It'll shut down many set-up Sweepers barring Fighting-Types easily and a boon of having one weakness.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 172-203 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery-->Focus Blast tho.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lickilicky: 199-235 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
What if Swanna had Gale Wings?
Swanna also isn't a bad Pokemon. It just lacks the extra oomph it could have when firing off attacks. It's abilities Big Pecks, Hydration, and Keep Eye isn't helping. It has 87/87/93 offensive stats and speed meaning it could use Gale Wings to a great extent as it outspeeds most priority users, but why use it over Talonflame? Six Words. Priority Defog, Hurricane, and Brave Bird. That's right. Priority Defog as well as Hurricane and Brave Bird. Not only does it have better mixed stats than Talonflame, but also a better defensive typing, bumping the Stealth Rock weakness down to 25%. Going Mixed or Special is better than pure Physical however as you'd be better off using Talonflame as Swanna lacks Physical Water STAB. We have a few speedy Defoggers but Speed Ties are a thing and priority is most reliable.
252+ Atk Choice Band Swanna Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 271-321 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Finally,
What if Skuntank had Fur Coat?
Skuntank needs this buff. Its bulk besides its HP 103/67/61 may be laughable, but the beauty comes from Skuntank's typing. Poison/Dark only has one weakness, Ground, but the calc will surprise you. Its other abilities consist of Aftermath, Keen Eye, and Stench. Aftermath only works if you faint, Keen Eye is useless, and Stench only works if you move before the opponent and Skuntank has 93/71/84 offenses and speed meaning it isn't going to be sweeping anytime soon. With Fur Coat Skuntank becomes a defensive behemoth which halfs all physical attacks dealt to it, and it'll be able to take on the most powerful attackers. Its SpD however will be its downfall as it can't take an unresisted hit from that side more than once. But the great thing is that Skuntank ain't no passive Tank, its able to dish out pain as well with moves like Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Poison Jab, Iron Tail, Pursuit and Foul Play. It also has a fair bit of utility with Defog, Haze, Memento, Taunt, and Torment
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Skuntank: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Skuntank: 123-146 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Soooo what'd you guys think?
Do not post this in the thread. It creates a huge amount of clutter. Only post them in a PM or on a council member's wall. Never in the thread. Please delete your post and send it via PMWorking on it.
This go around I'm Theorizing abilities.
Ideas for next slate: Will include calcs with each idea that involve an attacking buff.
What is Dedenne had Huge Power?
Dedenne has always been PU. It has a higher SpA Stat of 81 compared to 58 Atk and a decent speed of 101, putting it on par with Landorus, but that just doesn't cut it. However it has access to Play Rough and Wild Charge giving it two excellent STABs to take advantage of Huge Power. It also has U-Turn, Aerial Ace, and Dig as other physical coverage options. Pair this with an excellent defensive typing, only being weak to Ground and Poison its going to be a terror for slower teams as 101 isn't very fast. It's far from broken however as Ground-Types are everywhere and key threats are faster than it, easily defeating it with its poor bulk at 67/57/67 respectively.
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Dedenne Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 304-359 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
What if Mismagius had Shadow Tag?
Mismagius has forever lurked in NU only being used in higher tiers as a viable Ghost-Type with Levitate. However with Shadow Tag it would instantly be terror everywhere. With a base 105 SpA, SpD, and Speed its nothing to scoff at. It has a wide movepool having gems such as Dazzling Gleam, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and even Perish Song allowing it to trap and efficiently Stallbreak. It's far from broken however as 105 base Speed is not as fast as it used to be and it has abysmal physical bulk at 60/60 respectively. However it'll be a nightmare for Stall and Balance teams.
What if Bastiodon had Filter/Solid Rock? And was changed to just a Steel Type instead of Rock/Steel Type?
Bastiodon isn't a terrible Pokemon per se. It's typing is Rock/Steel which isn't too bad and has 60/168/138 defensive stats paired with 52/47/30 offensive stats and speed. It has acess to Counter, Magic Coat, Stealth Rock, Metal Burst, Torment, and Taunt making it an excellent Utility Mon, but its abilities are its downfall. It has Sturdy and Soundproof. Sturdy is bad, but its defensive stats are too outrageous to take full advantage of it. With Filter/Solid Rock and a singular Steel Type its walling capabilities skyrocket allowing it to take comfortably wall anything to hell and back and even take a SE hit when needed.
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Filter Bastiodon: 242-287 (74.9 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery-->That's minimal defensive investment, kids.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Filter Bastiodon: 230-271 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That's insane!
What if Lickilicky had Unaware?
Lickilicky has great bulk at 110/95/95, surpassing other Unaware Walls Clefable and Quagsire. It has access to Wish, Icy Wind, Amnesia, Knock Off, Dragon Tail, Heal Bell, Curse, and Refresh meaning it can fit the Cleric, WishPasser, Support and Bulky Phaser role pretty well. Its original abilities Cloud Nine, Oblivious, and Own Tempo are quite lackluster and Unaware would fit it better in the flavor sense as well. It'll shut down many set-up Sweepers barring Fighting-Types easily and a boon of having one weakness.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 172-203 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery-->Focus Blast tho.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lickilicky: 199-235 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
What if Swanna had Gale Wings?
Swanna also isn't a bad Pokemon. It just lacks the extra oomph it could have when firing off attacks. It's abilities Big Pecks, Hydration, and Keep Eye isn't helping. It has 87/87/93 offensive stats and speed meaning it could use Gale Wings to a great extent as it outspeeds most priority users, but why use it over Talonflame? Six Words. Priority Defog, Hurricane, and Brave Bird. That's right. Priority Defog as well as Hurricane and Brave Bird. Not only does it have better mixed stats than Talonflame, but also a better defensive typing, bumping the Stealth Rock weakness down to 25%. Going Mixed or Special is better than pure Physical however as you'd be better off using Talonflame as Swanna lacks Physical Water STAB. We have a few speedy Defoggers but Speed Ties are a thing and priority is most reliable.
252+ Atk Choice Band Swanna Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 271-321 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Finally,
What if Skuntank had Fur Coat?
Skuntank needs this buff. Its bulk besides its HP 103/67/61 may be laughable, but the beauty comes from Skuntank's typing. Poison/Dark only has one weakness, Ground, but the calc will surprise you. Its other abilities consist of Aftermath, Keen Eye, and Stench. Aftermath only works if you faint, Keen Eye is useless, and Stench only works if you move before the opponent and Skuntank has 93/71/84 offenses and speed meaning it isn't going to be sweeping anytime soon. With Fur Coat Skuntank becomes a defensive behemoth which halfs all physical attacks dealt to it, and it'll be able to take on the most powerful attackers. Its SpD however will be its downfall as it can't take an unresisted hit from that side more than once. But the great thing is that Skuntank ain't no passive Tank, its able to dish out pain as well with moves like Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Poison Jab, Iron Tail, Pursuit and Foul Play. It also has a fair bit of utility with Defog, Haze, Memento, Taunt, and Torment
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Skuntank: 195-231 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Skuntank: 123-146 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Soooo what'd you guys think?
Getting back on track, something I thought would be a great teammate for Noivern would be Mega Gardevoir. The goal is to use Gardevoir to really put dents in the opposing team and lure in Steel-types for Noivern. Once you have the Steel-type in KO range of Fiery Dance, you can start to shoot for a sweep. If you win the coin flip, you might win; if not, you at least put some damage on whatever swaps in. In the same vein, I can see anything that lures in Ferrothorn being a great partner.
If you can put enough damage on Noivern's targets before you throw it out, you will be able to sweep with it. Noivern is a really cool submission because it's really effective if you use it well. It's not, however, something you can just slap on and expect to perform. It reminds me of Gengar; amazing in the hands of a skilled player, but frustrating if you're using it wrong.
This is pointed conjecture meant for y'all to add on to. I'll leave you with a question to answer: What would a team with Noivern look like?
If you can put enough damage on Noivern's targets before you throw it out, you will be able to sweep with it. Noivern is a really cool submission because it's really effective if you use it well. It's not, however, something you can just slap on and expect to perform. It reminds me of Gengar; amazing in the hands of a skilled player, but frustrating if you're using it wrong.
This is pointed conjecture meant for y'all to add on to. I'll leave you with a question to answer: What would a team with Noivern look like?
Well, Noivern's a frail cleaner, so something that can put dents in the opposing team in order to open up opportunities for it to get going. However, given its minimal bulk, switch-ins opportunities are scarce. So I'd say it would go well with slow VoltTurners. Scizor in particular (Mega or Choice) looks good; come in, U-Turn out of the switchin leaving a big dent, and depending on sets open up a chance for Noivern to finish them off.
Scizor and Serperior might make for decent partners. Scizor's slow U-Turn and tendency to draw in Steel types (without Superpower or locked into something on Choiced sets), while Serperior can function as a Wallbreaker or secondary cleaning option, also drawing in Steel types. Since Noivern will be the one exploiting most Steel types bar Heatran, Serp can opt for HP Ground to lure Heatran in, and the high shared speed between the two ensures they have something to do against offensive teams.
Alright, I'm late to the party here, but I still want to give my two cents
Extremespeed + Braviary: I really like this combo and I really like Braviary. With this combo, Braviary becomes extremely dangerous IF the opponent activates defiance on it. Without defiance, Braviary is alright. It'd probably be viable with extreemspeed. This might get my vote.
Drain Punch + Fighting + Mega Banette: The council was very generous to Mega Banette, but Mega Banette might not be able to actually get anything out of this buff because its greatest downfall is how frail it is and how it is gaining a weakness to flying, fairy, and psychic in exchange for a neutrality to dark and a resisitance to rock and quad resistance to bug. The problem for it here is that the foes who will be wrecking it with its new weaknesses are, for the most part, faster than it. Banette can't really do anything with its recovery if it dies before it uses it. However, Banette has access to Prankster Destiny Bond which turns the tables on its would be killers by taking them with it. Unfortunately, Destiny Bond won't save it when it gets outprioritized by things like Tflame Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir Quick Attack. At the end of the day, this buff might just end up being another slash on banette's moveset because of how few chances it gets to actually make use of it. Still, I might vote for this one.
Desolate Land + Mega Camerupt: This would be absolute hell to weather teams
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 398-470 (115.6 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Well, kind of. It would certainly hamper the progress of rain teams even if they are still capable of steamrolling through it. Nothing really wants to switch in on this, though.
Ironically, the Sun boost from Desolate land gives Talonflame the ability to 2hko Camerupt with Flare Blitz.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt in Harsh Sunshine: 176-207 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And several other things threaten it
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 439-517 (127.6 - 150.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (still here, technically)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias in Harsh Sunshine: 113-133 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 276-325 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Mega Camerupt is total setup fodder for Mega latias)
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 270-320 (78.4 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Tank Chomp)
252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 234-276 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Mega Gyara pre mega evo)
Long story short, Desolate land Mega Camerupt sheds most of its water type counters and gains a spammable solarbeam and stronger fire blast, but it still is defeated by several things, Mega Latias in particular. I might vote fore this one. Maybe.
Fiery Dance + Noivern: Coming from someone who often misses a 95% accuracy move more than once in a row, I can't see how Fiery Dance Noivern could possibly be seen as a reliable cleaner. Honestly, I don't think this would be viable at all. I'd much rather see something cool on Noivern like Aerilate Boomburst.
Extremespeed + Braviary: I really like this combo and I really like Braviary. With this combo, Braviary becomes extremely dangerous IF the opponent activates defiance on it. Without defiance, Braviary is alright. It'd probably be viable with extreemspeed. This might get my vote.
Drain Punch + Fighting + Mega Banette: The council was very generous to Mega Banette, but Mega Banette might not be able to actually get anything out of this buff because its greatest downfall is how frail it is and how it is gaining a weakness to flying, fairy, and psychic in exchange for a neutrality to dark and a resisitance to rock and quad resistance to bug. The problem for it here is that the foes who will be wrecking it with its new weaknesses are, for the most part, faster than it. Banette can't really do anything with its recovery if it dies before it uses it. However, Banette has access to Prankster Destiny Bond which turns the tables on its would be killers by taking them with it. Unfortunately, Destiny Bond won't save it when it gets outprioritized by things like Tflame Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir Quick Attack. At the end of the day, this buff might just end up being another slash on banette's moveset because of how few chances it gets to actually make use of it. Still, I might vote for this one.
Desolate Land + Mega Camerupt: This would be absolute hell to weather teams
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 398-470 (115.6 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Well, kind of. It would certainly hamper the progress of rain teams even if they are still capable of steamrolling through it. Nothing really wants to switch in on this, though.
Ironically, the Sun boost from Desolate land gives Talonflame the ability to 2hko Camerupt with Flare Blitz.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt in Harsh Sunshine: 176-207 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And several other things threaten it
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 439-517 (127.6 - 150.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (still here, technically)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias in Harsh Sunshine: 113-133 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 276-325 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Mega Camerupt is total setup fodder for Mega latias)
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 270-320 (78.4 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Tank Chomp)
252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 234-276 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Mega Gyara pre mega evo)
Long story short, Desolate land Mega Camerupt sheds most of its water type counters and gains a spammable solarbeam and stronger fire blast, but it still is defeated by several things, Mega Latias in particular. I might vote fore this one. Maybe.
Fiery Dance + Noivern: Coming from someone who often misses a 95% accuracy move more than once in a row, I can't see how Fiery Dance Noivern could possibly be seen as a reliable cleaner. Honestly, I don't think this would be viable at all. I'd much rather see something cool on Noivern like Aerilate Boomburst.
Finally with Desolate land Camerupt. One of the good things about it and the reason I suggested it originally is that it provides its own sun for Growth, meaning you can nasty plot and swords dance and the same time and bust through anything like Chansey or w/e, which lets it stand out from MegaZard (paired with overall much superior typing after mega evo+water immunity and good bulk). I can imagine a growth set on trick room being potentially very scary, especially since it has synergy with its ground typing against the steel and poison types that aromatisse and other fairy type trick roomers can lure in. Aromatisse is especially nice since it passes Wishes to Mega Camerupt. Whimsicott is another option that can pivot into Mega Camerupt with u-turn while having a ground resistance.
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Growth
(growth over solarbeam bc water types lose to +2 other moves)
Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Trick Room
fried eggs anyone?
+2 252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 328-387 (51 - 60.2%)
Ferrothorn is another option for a partner since it can deal a lot of physical ground types and has trick room tier speed
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Growth
(growth over solarbeam bc water types lose to +2 other moves)
Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Trick Room
fried eggs anyone?
+2 252+ SpA Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 328-387 (51 - 60.2%)
Ferrothorn is another option for a partner since it can deal a lot of physical ground types and has trick room tier speed
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Extremespeed + Braviary: I think this is the first time we have an Extreme Speed user who gets STAB on it in OU (no, Linoone does not count). We already know how dangerous Defiant + priority is due to Bisharp and having Braviary here could be good for HO as it can clean up teams easily. It also has Superpower for coverage. Sadly, Braviary's only method of boosting is Bulk Up so it might not be able to pull off a sweep. A weakness to Stealth Rock also discourages Choice items so you are limited to Life Orb (wears you down faster) or Silk Scarf. However, as I said, STAB Extremespeed + Defiant might carve it a niche in HO teams who sack Pokemon all the time anyway.
Drain Punch + Fighting + Mega Banette: Is this a preview of Hoopa-U in OU? Fighting + Ghost is an unresisted combo and to get both through STAB is excellent. It is also able to run a lot of support moves due to Prankster. However, it is still plagued by low bulk and low Speed.
Desolate Land + Mega Camerupt: Ugh, this thing turns Rain teams into a liability (unless they happen to run Mega Swampert who have to be wary of Will-O-Wisp and Solar Beam). It also completely destroys Water-types that can easily prey on it before while also being a great wallbreaker with it's STAB moves and decent bulk. However, it's low Speed and common weakness is still it's downfall.
Fiery Dance + Noivern: This sounds like using Charge Beam to clean up and boost, except that now it only has 50% chance of activating but trades it for a 30 BP increase. I am not too sure, looks like a gimmick to me especially with Noivern's poor SpA (and you still won't beat most things even at +1)
Drain Punch + Fighting + Mega Banette: Is this a preview of Hoopa-U in OU? Fighting + Ghost is an unresisted combo and to get both through STAB is excellent. It is also able to run a lot of support moves due to Prankster. However, it is still plagued by low bulk and low Speed.
Desolate Land + Mega Camerupt: Ugh, this thing turns Rain teams into a liability (unless they happen to run Mega Swampert who have to be wary of Will-O-Wisp and Solar Beam). It also completely destroys Water-types that can easily prey on it before while also being a great wallbreaker with it's STAB moves and decent bulk. However, it's low Speed and common weakness is still it's downfall.
Fiery Dance + Noivern: This sounds like using Charge Beam to clean up and boost, except that now it only has 50% chance of activating but trades it for a 30 BP increase. I am not too sure, looks like a gimmick to me especially with Noivern's poor SpA (and you still won't beat most things even at +1)
How did we all miss the fact that Mega Camerupt gets Growth? That is sounding really freaking scary and could potentially be a game breaker. On second thought though, I guess Growth could potentially give free switch ins to ground types, so its a dangerous game, given that Camerupt really wants to prevent things from coming in on it for free. It would still be revenge easy enough, but RIP Stall.
Anyway I think I've got a pretty cool SFD Core for Fiery Dance Noivern.
+
+
Just Braviary to go I guess.
I tried to scout the old thread for replays to see what Braviary teams ran back in the day, but there are only 4 replays and they are all of Chou Toshio wrecking random crap with his Poison Heal Snorlax and Triple Bird Core. (3 birds in a core and not one was Braviary Q_Q)
Anyway I think I've got a pretty cool SFD Core for Fiery Dance Noivern.
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Calm Mind
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Fiery Dance
- Focus Blast / Roost
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Calm Mind
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Fiery Dance
- Focus Blast / Roost
So this is quite an odd, but very versatile core. Being a SFD core, the type synergy is obviously pretty good. Noivern and Magnezone in particular resist or are immune to all of each other's weaknesses. The initial idea of the core was based around these two. They can sponge hits for each other nicely, as well as take out a few of each other's checks and counters. The things I found most drawing however was this idea of Magnezone being able to trap steel types, and give Noivern free set up. Take Skarmory for example. If Magnezone catches Skarm 1v1, Magnezone Volt Switches, bringing Skarmory to Sturdy, Skarmory knowing it can't touch Mag tries to set up hazards or some shit, resulting in either Mega Diancie coming in to bounce back the hazards, or Noivern to come in and get a free chance of boosting, knowing it is guaranteed to a free Fiery Dance as Skarm will either die or switch. Ferrothorn is the same, only Mag uses HP Fire, then Volt Switch. Also just in general Mag's Slow Volt Switch is great for bringing in either safely, regardless of whether it is from trapping a steel. But yeah this combination of Mag and Fiery Dance Noivern leaves very little room for steel types, and what benefits heaps from have steel types removed? That's right. Mega Diancie. But not only do Mag and Noivern take out Steels for Mega Diancie, Noivern also takes out grass types like Mega Venusaur, Tangrowth, and Celebi, which give both partners a hard time. Magnezone can use its steel STABs to take out Fairies for Noivern. Noivern takes out Mega Zard X and Garchomp for Magnezone. Diancie reflect SR for Noivern and takes out a whole bunch of crap, etc, etc, you get the point. They synergies well offensively, defensive, and utility wise.
As for the sets. There is a lot of room for change. Diancie's set is standard, but you can also run HP Fire or Rock Polish in the last slot depending on team and play style. Noivern is a pretty standard LO set as well. With powerful dual STABs, Fiery Dance for steels and boosting, and then the last slot I honestly don't know, what ever floats your boat. The Magnezone set is a bit different. It is the Air Ballon + Magnet Rise set, with Volt Switch > Thunderbolt. I chose this due to my desire to run Magnezone as a bulky pivot, using its 15 resistances/immunities (with Bloon/Magnet Rise) and underrated 70/115/90 bulk to sponge resisted hits for the other pokemon in the core. It is also really cool providing Magnet Rise support to itself and Mega Diancie. Also without Magnet Rise the core is quite weak to Scarf Landorus and Excadrill. But like anything, the set can be changed to Scarf or Specs depending on team and play style.
Good team mates: This core demands that you run a physical wall breaker, in order to get past things like Chansey.
Sub Dragon Dance Gyarados jumps to mind as a good team mate. Being able to set up on and break Special walls like Chansey win ease. It is also a pretty solid answer to Excadrill and Landorus, which frees up Magnezone's set a bit more if you don't like the Magnet Rise variant. Also contributes to the overall synergy of the team.
A Mega Metagross set is also really nice.
As for the sets. There is a lot of room for change. Diancie's set is standard, but you can also run HP Fire or Rock Polish in the last slot depending on team and play style. Noivern is a pretty standard LO set as well. With powerful dual STABs, Fiery Dance for steels and boosting, and then the last slot I honestly don't know, what ever floats your boat. The Magnezone set is a bit different. It is the Air Ballon + Magnet Rise set, with Volt Switch > Thunderbolt. I chose this due to my desire to run Magnezone as a bulky pivot, using its 15 resistances/immunities (with Bloon/Magnet Rise) and underrated 70/115/90 bulk to sponge resisted hits for the other pokemon in the core. It is also really cool providing Magnet Rise support to itself and Mega Diancie. Also without Magnet Rise the core is quite weak to Scarf Landorus and Excadrill. But like anything, the set can be changed to Scarf or Specs depending on team and play style.
Good team mates: This core demands that you run a physical wall breaker, in order to get past things like Chansey.
Sub Dragon Dance Gyarados jumps to mind as a good team mate. Being able to set up on and break Special walls like Chansey win ease. It is also a pretty solid answer to Excadrill and Landorus, which frees up Magnezone's set a bit more if you don't like the Magnet Rise variant. Also contributes to the overall synergy of the team.
A Mega Metagross set is also really nice.
Just Braviary to go I guess.
I tried to scout the old thread for replays to see what Braviary teams ran back in the day, but there are only 4 replays and they are all of Chou Toshio wrecking random crap with his Poison Heal Snorlax and Triple Bird Core. (3 birds in a core and not one was Braviary Q_Q)
Wait, Camerupt gets Growth? WELP. I'm thinking a mixed set with Growth, EQ, Fire Blast and Solarbeam to destroy blob switchins,
Is there any value to Solarbeam on a Growth set? Genuine question, since you have a good matchup against water types anyway and will be 2hkoing most of them (fire blast 2hkos keldeo and azu for instance), growth and the appropriate move should beat most mons. Rock coverage seems more important on a growth set so you can hit mons like Talonflame who otherwise takes 47% from fire blast, as well as Dragonites, Gyarados and Rotom-Hs. (edit: hmm maybe not gyarados since intimidate makes fire blast hit harder anyway, and is still a 2hko after rocks).
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That core is fucking beautiful, well done. Pretty much any non mega SD sweeper compliments that core. SD Garchomp could nicely work and it also lures in Skarmory, allowing you to double switch to Magnezone and go to town.
Like Isa Simple mentioned earlier, Intimidate mons like Landorus-T get OHKOed if it switches into Braviary's CB Espeed:
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 330-388 (103.4 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So rip Land-T/Manectric core.
Not only that, you can revenge kill fast mons like Weavile, Belly Drum Azumarill, and even lolChoice Band Talonflame:
I recall somebody wanted to see more checks to Moxie Weavile. Well....
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 273-322 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 249-294 (68.4 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And I can see a drop in usage for Talonflame impending.
If ESpeed Braviary does get ratified though, I'm predicting a rise in Rocky Helmet Skarmory, Granbull, or Mega Aggron (the former two which received buffs from theorymon.)
Granbull, Skarmory, Bronzong and Mega Aggron are the only true counters to Braviary that come to my head. And some are very shaky counters.
Otherwise, CB Braviary's Flying/Fighting/Normal coverage makes everything else a shaky check (Rhyperior can't switch into 2 Superpowers, and Zapdos can take up to 50% from Espeed.)
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 134-158 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- 73.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 144-169 (42.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 144-169 (42.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 135-159 (39.9 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 101-119 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (71 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 88-105 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- not enough :'(
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 101-119 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (71 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 88-105 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- not enough :'(
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 124-147 (32.2 - 38.2%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 186-220 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 135-159 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So what's everyone's opinion on ratifying this powerhouse?
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