Fix the spelling in thundurus's stones; is ampharosite really better than gyaradosite for mew? Stab snarl/knock and +30 dual defenses, as well as only two weaknesses vs the six of ampharosite, 10 more speed etc make it better IMO.
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Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
You also forget that dark/psychic has NO resistances at all. Ampharosite receives a large boost to its more useful sp. atk, and still retains the ability to go mixed with 120/165 offenses. imo the resists it has, and the solid offfenses are worth more than a bit more bulk, speed, and a worse typing.
Also, Rejoice! For it appears that Snaquaza has updated the code finally. Me and someone else noticed this after we had switched multiple times without the stat glitch occuring. Yay!
There is another bug i'd like to point out. Mewtwo cannot Mega-Evolve with its natural stones-Mewtwonite X and Y. I specifically remember mewtwo being allowed to use its stones.
Also, Nominating Arceus-Ghost for A Rank. technically, I would place all formes here, but different formes have different viability. Arceus-Ghost possesses the rare combination of good bulk, solid typing, and reliable recovery alongside moves like will-o-wisp, Defog, and more.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/aqua-mixandmega-1621
A decent replay showing arceus-Ghost putting in work, it burned Gatr, thundy(then took it out) and took a good chunk out of Clefable, and probably would've cleaned up if not for thunderbolt parahax.
Restating what i said earlier, Ghostceus carries a few good moves in its movesets that are difficult to find outside of mew. What makes it A-Rank is that it not only does a very good job of filling its role, but it doesn't compete with others due to not taking up a stone slot and being able to support its team effectively. It can even leave the support role and do a SD set, or run a CM set.
Oh hell no.
Tagging Pikachuun. Knock Off is not behaving correctly! (And I wouldn't be surprised if, say, Trick isn't behaving correctly either)
And apparently Mewtwo can't use its Mega Stones either. That ain't right.
Psychic/Dark has a double weakness (The fact that it's to Bug is not as helpful as you might think) in addition to exactly one defensive advantage (Immune to and resistant to Psychic, hooray), Mew isn't going to be outspeeding things regardless if you're running a stallbreaker set or similar (And if you want to outspeed things, both Stones are poor choices), and Dragon/Psychic is a surprisingly solid typing all around, with a nifty combination of resistances.
STAB on Knock Off is comparatively lame when most things should be immune, and STAB on Snarl is pretty eh. It's about chipping while lowering Special Attack, the exact damage isn't terrible important.
I've noticed the Knock Off glitch for a while, honestly thought it was intended though. Guess that solves that issue.
Me and Snaquaza tested some funny shit with Ditto earlier. Gonna post it soon.
Me and Snaquaza tested some funny shit with Ditto earlier. Gonna post it soon.
Well, SpartanMalice said it already, but we tested some Ditto mechanics and they seem fairly awkward. Although I'm not sure if they are intended this way or not, I'll post them anyway so you can see if they are.
First off, this is the battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-73
Anyway, right now these are the Ditto mechanisms.
Ditto can Transform in opposing Pokemon, mega or not and keep the ability to mega evolve.
When Ditto mega-evolves, it Mega-Evolves of its normal stats and typing, not it current ones. This seems fairly awkward to me.
Whatever you do, Ditto only keeps Transform when it switches out. Even if you Transform'd into a Mega with other moves and then Mega'd again. Seems normal to me, but worth a mention.
We have not yet tested what happens if you Mega-Evolve Ditto, then Transform into another Mega. So I don't know whether it'd be able to mega evolve again.
It was fun to test, I would personally like Ditto to Mega-Evolve of its current stats though, although I feel the other mechanics are good.
First off, this is the battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-73
Anyway, right now these are the Ditto mechanisms.
Ditto can Transform in opposing Pokemon, mega or not and keep the ability to mega evolve.
When Ditto mega-evolves, it Mega-Evolves of its normal stats and typing, not it current ones. This seems fairly awkward to me.
Whatever you do, Ditto only keeps Transform when it switches out. Even if you Transform'd into a Mega with other moves and then Mega'd again. Seems normal to me, but worth a mention.
We have not yet tested what happens if you Mega-Evolve Ditto, then Transform into another Mega. So I don't know whether it'd be able to mega evolve again.
It was fun to test, I would personally like Ditto to Mega-Evolve of its current stats though, although I feel the other mechanics are good.
these are all intended
I am pretty confused with the relative wording of this post. Are you saying that when ditto transforms, it transformes into the base form of the opponent's pokemon or the mega forme? I understand that it should mega evolve with its own stats, even after transforming, since transforming is a status and it would probably be pretty broken.
We are now officially suspecting Shadow Tag.
Chime in: is there some benefit to keeping Shadow Tag in the metagame? Does it check otherwise difficult-to-check threats? Is it a dumb mechanic that should never have been put into Pokémon in the first place? Opinions! Analyses!
I would personally resent the idea of having Ditto Imposter/Transform into your Altarianite Dragonite and then, from there, Mega Evolve again and have a BST of 800.
It's not like Ditto needs such shenanigans to have a place in the meta.
Chime in: is there some benefit to keeping Shadow Tag in the metagame? Does it check otherwise difficult-to-check threats? Is it a dumb mechanic that should never have been put into Pokémon in the first place? Opinions! Analyses!
I would personally resent the idea of having Ditto Imposter/Transform into your Altarianite Dragonite and then, from there, Mega Evolve again and have a BST of 800.
It's not like Ditto needs such shenanigans to have a place in the meta.
Ban it. Shadow Tag is detrimental to both stall and offense. Shadow Tag is not as much of a problem in Ubers due to the fact that using mega gengar comes at the cost of using, say, mega salamence or mewtwo, to potentially beat an playstyle that has long scince caught on to Tag shenanigans.
This is NOT so in Mix and Mega, where using Genagrite comes at very little opportunity cost and can majorly affect a stall team, and even more so unprepared ones. The problem becomes even bigger when you account for all of the other possible stones that are usable on gengar(wobbuffet and gothitelle aren't included as gengar is still the better user of gengarite). Not only that, but gengar's high speed, access to both destiny bond and perish song means that it can tear apart even a well built core, and take at LEAST one pokemon down with it when it goes, alongside the mindgames that access to these moves provides.
Ditto with one of the bulky stones could work, though. If done the way it was in our battle, it keeps transform, so. I haven't tried it with Imposter yet though, but then I believe it won't have the capacity to mega evolve.
Ditto keeps its original stats, but your typing and moves. It's spooky, but best. Otherwise it would be op like people said earlier.
And yeah read my earlier posts I am all for a stag ban
And yeah read my earlier posts I am all for a stag ban
Sorry I took so long to respond to this, I'll address it now.
At a glance shadow tag might not strike you as the worst thing in Mix and mega, considering you have pokemon with 245 Attack and whatnot. In OU, UU, NU, RU and Ubers shadow tag has been controversial. Mainly because of the poor distribution in only the gothitelle line, wobbuffet line and Mega Gengar, the ladder being the most broken by far. In UU, NU and RU Shadow tag was banned. If I were to theorymon the reason it was banned in UU, NU and RU and not OU and Ubers it would be because of pokemon in OU and Ubers are far more likely to power creep. Power creeping to the point where gothitelle can't use its rest + calm mind set or wobbuffet will likely only take one or two hits through out the game. But thats only theorymonning on my part, I don't play the lower tiers.
If you're curious about the actual way shadow tag impacts your playstyle I'm going to sum it up shortly, but I'd advice you visit some of the previous suspect tests for a more indepth look. Shadow tag essentially breaks stall by its mere presence. Lets say you have a Chansey and opponent has Charizard Y and Gothitelle. When you're playing now you have to be vary of the gothitelle, if gothitelle switches into your chansey you lose it and you're swept by Charizard Y. So Charizard Y is send out versus one of your other pokemon, lets say Mega Sableye. Now you switch into Chansey tanking the fire blast, losing roughly 35-45%. You're fine, you could just softboiled up or use wish. But you can't. You know your opponents best play is to go directly into Gothitelle. So there you are, you have a chansey that's in 2HKO range of Fire blast. If you switch out Charizard Y could just do this once more, but this time actually kill Chansey. Or you could stay in and you lose your Chansey. This is how shadow tag functions, it pressures your opponent like no other. It takes a harmless move like charm and through shadow tag it makes gothitelle able to trap threatening physical threats like Azumarill with ease, -2 does nothing and because they're unable to switch out Gothitelle has now killed your win condition, which is why Shadow tag is often seen on offence and defence alike. Personally I believe this is a cancerous ability thats existence makes stall significantly less viable and it should be banned on the terms of being uncompetitive in all tiers, much like swagplay. And yes, this applies to all trapping abilities imo. Shadow tag and arena trap are both broken, the exception is that shadow tag can't trap ghost types or other shadow tag users while Arena trap can't trap ground types and levitaters. Though Shadow tag is better since ghost is less common and dugtrio is awful, the pressure still applies.
In Mix and mega trapping gains two significant boosts. The first is the lack of shed shell. With every wall being forced to run a mega stone just to survive the power creep they are unable to run shed shell, a large boost to trapping as that is a common argument against banning it, a poor one for that matter. The second is gengarite. Gengarite is now usable on Wobbuffet and Gothitelle, this might not seem as the best option but i'm sorry, it just is. Gengarite gives Gothitelle 135 special attack. It no longer needs to run specs or choice scarf to widdle the opponent, it now has the speed and power to do so itself, even being an effective sweeper. Wobbuffet also greatly appreciates the 20+ defence boost in both defences, now being able to handle some of the power creep.
Idk... It's a dumb ability and we gain nothing from keeping it, it's like putting the final nail to the coffin that is stall... Meanwhile said coffin has already been sunk to the bottom the ocean. Personally I'd like to see shadow tag go, and I'd like to see huge power nerf because I don't if you've noticed but Mega Mawile can get 125 attack with pure power. Other than that I think some banning of certain pokemon are in order.
DISCLAIMER: Gengarite isn't the problem, shadow tag is
IIRC, there was some discussion in the last thread of unbanning Ubers that relied on their Ability (Landorus-I, Greninga). What happened with that?
Also, what happened with the Mewtwonite X suspect?
Also, what happened with the Mewtwonite X suspect?
Arena trap isn't capable of trapping ghosts, and raised pokemon(flying types and levitators) unlike STag which can't trap ghosts and STaggers
We said we did not want to set the random precedent of unbanning ubers for no reason when they add nothing to the metagame. Unbanning Greninja or Landorus-I don't do anything productive for the metagame besides set a random precedent. Mewtwonite X really isn't broken in this tier, it seems.
But why not unban them? Otherwise why not ban Wormadam? It adds nothing to the meta either. At least come up with a better reason to say this. Its arbitrary as to whether they were banned or not. The meta existed when lando was legal. Did you ban it alongside them?
And yeah mewtwonite X isnt broken, you have no ability, no speed boost, and is worse than things like lucarionite in most situations.
It complicates the code unnecessarily when you unban ubers or ban mons for no particular reason.
Theoretically though, how would Greninja work? With Protean, say it transformed into a Ground type with Spikes, then used Aggronite. Would it be Ground/Steel now or Water/Steel?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-83 You keep the original type. I imagine conversion works the same way
OK, then how can we ban Cresselia? Doesn't that complicate the code? That really is a pointless reason to not unban or ban something. It takes zero effort to just add one case to the list of ubers or take one out :/ why does everyone have such stupid reasons :/
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thesecondbest, if you can get on aqua now we can test this out. No one at the OM room seems to be responding atm.
Because cress isn't for no apparent reason. We can ban things AS NECESSARY. But when there's absolutely no reason to do so, why would we? When banning or unbanning stuff adds nothing to the meta, why should we do it?
Should see his posts in BH suspect
Gut feelings sure justify keeping the most broken of the suspects, but battling subpar players on a shit ladder means BP is broken in a meta full of counterplay to it
This is a tall order in comparison, but can it be made pokes that have their attack doubled by an item hold mawilite/medichamite?
Gut feelings sure justify keeping the most broken of the suspects, but battling subpar players on a shit ladder means BP is broken in a meta full of counterplay to it
This is a tall order in comparison, but can it be made pokes that have their attack doubled by an item hold mawilite/medichamite?
It allows me to use landorus and greninja. There is no reason NOT to do it. Last i checked it was innocent until proven guilty, regardless of the result of a test in a DIFFERENT META.
You can still use them. Just not with mega stones.
Besides "being able to use them" does not qualify as "adding to the meta"