Ladder Mix and Mega

Imperator Romanum · Jun 12, 2015

Originally by Ghoul King and FlameUser64
Approved by Eevee General and The Immortal
Taken over by Grains of Salt

Banner graciously provided by FellFromtheSky!

Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with the usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance:

In order to Mega Evolve with a non-native Stone or Orb, you cannot be:

An unevolved Pokémon (ie: Chansey, Pikachu)
A Mega Evolution whose stats become a value higher than 255 or lower value than 1 will end up at 1 or 255, but not higher or lower.
A Mega Evolution that already exists on your team (ie: two Pokemon with Pinsirite)
A Pokémon on the Mega Evolution banlist (below)
A Pokemon banned to Ubers in the modified OU-ban list (Below)

Clauses, Bans, Rules:
Clauses: Ubers clauses, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team), Mega Maniac (Only Mega Evolve once in a battle)
General Bans: Electrify, Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Baton pass
Banned stones: Beedrillite, Gengarite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite
Mega Evolution Bans: The following Pokemon can't Mega Evolve using non-native stones:

Arceus
Cresselia
Darkrai
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-N
Dialga
Dragonite
Genesect
Giratina

Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Lucario
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Regigigas
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Slaking
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom

Rules: The following mechanics also apply:

You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team
If you use Red/Blue Orb, the transformation occurs instantly upon switch-in
If you use a Mega Stone or Orb that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Red Orb Charizard)
A Mega Stone or Orb cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve/Primal Revert with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not
If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes

Resources:

Altarianite Heatran: Fire/Fairy Pixilate 91/130/126/170/106/77
Newly-notable moves: Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar
Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome.

Scizorite Gardevoir: Technician 68/85/105/135/135/90
Newly-notable moves: Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam
A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure.

Scizorite Gallade: Technician 68/145/105/75/135/90
Newly-notable moves: Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief
Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you.

Aerodactylite Gallade: Tough Claws 68/155/85/75/135/100
Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch.

Altarianite Gallade: Psychic/Fairy Pixilate 68/165/85/105/115/80
Newly-notable moves: Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool
It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though.

Aggronite Avalugg: Ice/Steel Filter 95/147/234/44/66/28
An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness.

Altarianite Entei: Fire/Fairy Pixilate 115/155/105/130/75/100
Newly-notable moves: Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration
A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice.

Sceptilite Jirachi: Steel/Dragon Lightning Rod 100/125/110/140/100/125
Newly-notable moves: Draco Meteor
Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost!

Ampharosite Jirachi: Steel/Dragon Mold Breaker 100/120/120/150/120/90
Newly-notable moves: Draco Meteor
Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items.

Houndoominite Ninetales: Drought -> Solar Power 73/76/115/111/110/120
I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage.

Glalitite Froslass: Refrigerate 70/120/70/120/70/130
Newly-notable moves: Return
Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness.

Glalitite Kyurem: Refrigerate 125/170/90/170/90/115
Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Return
This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves.

Altarianite Kyurem: Dragon/Fairy Pixilate 125/170/110/170/90/95
Newly-notable moves: Return, Hyper Voice
Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired.

Pidgeotite Victini: No Guard 100/100/105/165/110/120
Newly-notable moves: Focus Blast, Inferno
Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk.

Heracronite Ferrothorn: Skill Link 74/154/171/54/126/10 Newly-notable moves: Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down.

Sablenite Blissey: Magic Bounce 255/20/60/95/185/25
Newly-notable moves: Blissey's entire Special movepool
With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time.

Sablenite Sylveon: Magic Bounce 95/75/115/130/180/30
Newly-notable moves: Moonblast over Hyper Voice
Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it.

Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette: Scrappy 100/188/100/77/77/158
Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first.

Latiasite Heatran: Flash Fire -> Levitate 91/110/136/160/126/77
Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves.

Metagrossite Absol: Tough Claws 65/140/80/85/80/115
Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage. However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU.

Salamencite Togekiss: Aerilate 85/60/145/130/125/100
Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam.
You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts.

Salamencite Gyarados: Intimidate -> Aerilate 95/135/129/70/110/101
Newly-notable moves: Return
Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate. Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance. Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall.

Salamencite Gliscor: Aerilate 75/105/175/55/85/115
Newly-notable moves: Return, Baton Pass
Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker.

Slowbronite Blissey: Shell Armor 255/10/80/105/135/55
Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack.

Glalitite Weavile: Refrigerate 70/160/65/85/85/145
Newly-notable moves: Return, Quick Attack
Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack.

Pidgeotite Porygon-Z: No Guard 85/80/75/200/85/110
Newly-notable moves: Blizzard, Zap Cannon
Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power.

Pidgeotite Blissey: No Guard 255/10/15/140/135/75
Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard.

Banettite Sableye: Prankster 50/125/85/75/85/60
Newly-notable moves: Sableye's entire Physical movepool
The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority.

Banettite Hitmontop: Intimidate -> Prankster 50/145/105/35/130/80
Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch
Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority.

Scizorite Pangoro: Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician 95/144/118/79/91/68
Newly-notable moves: Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch
Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.

Original Thread (created by FlameUser64)
Rom server (Multiple versions of Mix and Mega are playable here)
Mega Stone Benefits (created by Tyrell D. Barnes)
Featured Sample Teams
Check the OM Team Archive for more sample teams
OP revamped with much thanks to Jajoken.

Sugarbear · Jun 12, 2015

Mix-and-Mega Viability Rankings!

S Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of the Mix-and-Mega metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon are here as top threats and potential Bans due to using multiple megastones easily or just one very well.

Primal Groudon (Red Orb)

Zygarde (Altarianite)

Gengar (Pidgeotite, Gengarite)

A Rank

Reserved for Pokémon that perform extremely well in the Mix-and-Mega metagame. These Pokémon are typically considered excellent Pokémon let down by a few faults, thus keeping them out of S Rank. They typically require more support than an S Rank Pokémon, but nonetheless are very effective.

A+

Hoopa-Unbound (Diancite, Absolite, Cameruptite)

Blissey (Slowbronite, Sablenite)

Terrakion (Lucarionite, Lopunnite)

Thundurus (Pidgeotite, Manectite, Absolite)

Weavile (Glalite, Scizorite)

Entei (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

Skarmory (Blue Orb)

Arcanine (Altarianite, Pinsirite, Red Orb)

Cobalion (Metagrossite, Pinsirite, Aerodactylite)

A

Mew (Sablenite, Pidgeotite, Ampharosite, Lopunnite)

Heatran (Latiasite, Ampharosite, Cameruptite, Diancite)

Landorus-T (Pinsirite, Salamencite, Altarianite)

Victini (Pidgeotite, Red Orb, Cameruptite)

Raikou (Red Orb, Pidgeotite, Absolite, Manectite)

Archeops (Pinsirite, Salamencite)

Arceus

Suicune (Slowbronite, Sablenite, Blue Orb)

Gyarados (Salamencite, Pinsirite, Blue Orb)

Tornadus (Pidgeotite)

Keldeo (Lucarionite, Pidgeotite)

A-

Ferrothorn (Blue Orb, Venusaurite)

Kyurem (Cameruptite, Glalite, Absolite)

Latios (Soul Dew)

Noivern (Altarianite, Salamencite)

Hippowdown (Aggronite, Red Orb, Sablenite)

Jirachi (Sceptilite, Ampharosite, Absolite)

Excadrill (Pinsirite)

Arceus-Water

Zapdos (Sablenite, Manectite)

B Rank Pokémon are typically considered good, but overall quite niche, and require much more support than a Pokémon in A or S Rank. Their flaws are also much more prominent than Pokémon in S or A Rank, making them less effective overall

B+

Tyranitar (Steelixite, Lucarionite)

Staraptor (Lopunnite)

Mamoswine (Lucarionite, Glalite)

Garchomp (Lucarionite)

Metagross (Metagrossite, Lopunnite, Pinsirite, Aerodactylite)

Togekiss (Salamencite, Gardevoirite, Red Orb, Aggronite)

Slowbro (Aggronite, Slowbronite)

Mewtwo (Mewtwonite X, Mewtwonite Y)

Gourgesit (Aggronite)

Ho-Oh

Kangaskhan (Kangaskhanite)

Klinklang (Pinsirite)

Xerneas

B

Mienshao (Aerodactylite, Lopunnite)

Porygon-Z (Absolite, Pidgeotite)

Latias (Soul Dew, Aggronite)

Blaziken (Blazikenite, Loppunite, Aerodactylite)

Snorlax (Banettite, Slowbronite)

Slowking (Aggronite, Slowbronite)

Primal Kyogre (Blue Orb

Azelf (Absolite, Red Orb)

Scizor (Blue Orb, Metagrossite)

Breloom (Banettite, Scizorite)

Volcarona (Red Orb)

Vaporeon (Sablenite)

Meloetta (Absolite)

Arceus-Ghost

Mandibuzz (Sablenite)

B-

Roserade (Red Orb, Absolite)

Flygon (Altarianite, Pinsirite)

Giratina-O

Salamence (Salamencite, Pinsirite)

Greninja (Absolite, Pidgeotite)

Alakazam (Absolite)

Pangoro (Metagrossite)

Volcanion (Cameruptite)

Bisharp (Aerodactylite, Lucarionite)

Haxorus (Lopunnite, Aerodactylite)

Shaymin-Sky

Darkrai

Magnezone (Latiasite)

Starmie (Pidgeotite, Blue Orb)

Rayquaza

Aerodactyl (Pinsirite, Salamencite)

Krookodile (Lucarionite)

Ditto

Milotic (Sablenite, Sceptilite)

Heliolisk (Sceptilite, Absolite)

C Rank Pokémon are generally mediocre in Mix and Mega. They typically require much more support than Pokémon higher up the viability rankings, although they can still be effective in the right circumstances.

C

Hydreigon (Absolite, Manectite, Blastoisinite)

Lugia

Gorebyss (Banettite)

Conkeldurr (Metagrossite, Aerodactylite)

Yveltal

Aegislash

Hoopa (Cameruptite)

Chandelure (Diancite, Cameruptite)

Goodra (Aggronite, Slowbronite)

Rotom-W (Latiasite, Manectite)

Zekrom

Darmanitan (Metagrossite, Aerodactylite)

D Rank Pokémon are typically not worth using in Mix and Mega. They may have one obscure niche which makes them viable, but most of the time their team slot can be better used by something else.

D

Giratina

Shaymin (Pidgeotite)

Reuniclus (Slowbronite, Aggronite)

''CONCLUSION REACHED'' POKEMON: Pokemon in this list have reached a conclusive ideal ranking, so unless the metagame changes towards them or there is something about them that hasn't been said, discussion about them is disallowed.

None

BLACKLISTED POKEMON: Pokemon that are not only unviable in Mix-and-Mega, but also make the thread shitty whenever they are brought up because most people that argue about them getting ranked are inexperienced players using bad arguments.

None

Rules:

Post Intelligently. Your argument should consist of the pokemon's effectiveness relative to the tier's threats, and how it fits into a certain ranking.
NO flaming over rankings. OM has had an issue before with some arguments getting a little heated, but I will ask a moderator to delete any post containing an argument that is remotely insulting.
Usage/how common something is should not be used in your argument. Viability rankings aren't what mons are the most used, its what's the most effective.

nv · Jun 12, 2015

Mega Stones Viability Rankings
Restricted Stones: These stones are restricted to certain Pokémon.

Beedrillite (+60 Attack, -30 Special Attack, +70 Speed | Adaptability | N/A | +11 kg)

Essentially allows any physical attacker with a good STAB combination to become an absolute threat that can overpower most checks.

Gengarite (+20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Shadow Tag | N/A | N/A)

Since this is an Ubers based metagame, it makes sense to allow Mega Gengar since they handle it just fine. That being said, It is strictly only on Mega Gengar as allowing any Pokemon the ability to trap potential checks and counters for teammates makes the meta uncompetitive.

Kangaskanite (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Parental Bond | N/A | +20 kg)

Giving any Pokemon a 1.5x boost to their attacks means already powerful Pokemon become even more powerful. Furthermore, Kangaskhan is the only Pokemon that shows it is a "mother" so it wouldn't make sense for any other Pokemon to have a "Parental Bond" right?

Mawilite (+20 Attack, +40 Defense, +40 Special Defense | Huge Power | N/A | +12 kg)

This allows too many bulkier Pokemon to become even bulkier while also gaining a massive physical offensive presence.

Medichamite (+40 Attack, +10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Pure Power | N/A | N/A)

This is in the same boat as Mawilite in terms of power, but would benefit frailer attackers thanks to its Speed stat boost rather than benefitting bulkier attackers.

S Rank Stones: Reserved for Mega Stones that are excellent in the Mix and Mega metagame. They provide a nearly perfect combination of abilities and stat spreads. There is very little reason not to use these stones.

Altarianite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +40 Special Attack | Pixilate | +

| N/A)

Lucarionite (+35 Attack, +18 Defense, +25 Special Attack, +22 Speed | Adaptability | N/A | +3.5 kg)

Sablenite (+10 Attack, +50 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +50 Special Defense, -30 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +150 kg)

A Rank Stones: Reserved for Mega Stones that are good in the Mix and Mega metagame. These stones provide a good combination of abilities and stats. These stones provide benefits that outweigh its flaws, if there are any.

A+

Absolite (+20 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +40 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +2 kg)

Aggronite (+30 Attack, +50 Defense, +20 Special Defense | Filter | +

| +35 kg)

Blue Orb (+50 Attack, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Primordial Sea | N/A | +78 kg)

Diancite (+60 Attack, -40 Defense, +60 Special Attack, -40 Defense, +60 Speed | Magic Bounce | N/A | +19 kg)

Lopunnite (+60 Attack, +10 Defense, +30 Speed | Scrappy | +

| -5 kg)

Pidgeotite (+5 Defense, +65 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | No Guard | N/A | +11 kg)

Pinsirite (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Aerilate | +

| +4 kg)

Red Orb (+30 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack | Desolate Land | +

| +49.7 kg)

A

Ampharosite (+20 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Mold Breaker | +

| N/A)

Blazikenite (+40 Attack, +10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Speed Boost | N/A | N/A)

Manectite (+20 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +30 Speed | Intimidate | N/A | +3.8 kg)

Metagrossite (+10 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +40 Speed | Tough Claws | N/A | +392.9 kg)

Mewtwonite X (+80 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Defense | Steadfast | +

| +5 kg)

Venusaurite (+18 Attack, +40 Defense, +22 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Thick Fat | N/A | +55.5 kg)

A-

Aerodactylite (+30 Attack, 20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Tough Claws | N/A | +20 kg)

Cameruptite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense, -20 Speed | Sheer Force | N/A | +100.5 kg)

Charizardite X (+46 Attack, +33 Defense, +21 Special Attack | Tough Claws | +

| +20 kg)

Charizardite Y (+20 Attack, +50 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense | Drought | N/A | +10 kg)

Gyaradosite (+30 Attack, +30 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense | Mold Breaker | +

| +70 kg)

B Rank Stones: Reserved for Mega Stones that may only fit specific Pokémon in order for them to be viable. The benefits of these stones come with some downsides that are not remedied by the benefits alone, but rather by the Pokemon.

B+

Banettite (+50 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Prankster | N/A | +.5 kg)

Glalitite (+40 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +20 Speed | Refrigerate | N/A | +93.7 kg)

Latiasite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense | Levitate | N/A | +12 kg)

Salamencite (+10 Attack, +50 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Aerilate | N/A | +10 kg)

Slowbronite (+70 Defense, +30 Special Attack | Shell Armor | N/A | +31.5 kg)

B

Audinite (+40 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +40 Special Defense | Healer | +

| +1 kg)

Blastoisinite (+20 Attack, +20 Defense, +50 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense | Mega Launcher | N/A | +15.6 kg)

Sceptilite (+25 Attack, +10 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +25 Speed | Lightning Rod | +

| +3 kg)

B-

Gardevoirite (+20 Attack, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed | Pixilate | N/A | N/A)

Heracronite (+60 Attack, +40 Defense, +10 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Skill Link | N/A | +8.5 kg)

Scizorite (+20 Attack, +40 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Technician | N/A | +7 kg)

Swampertite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Swift Swim | N/A | +20.1 kg)

Tyranitarite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Sand Stream | N/A | +53 kg)

C Rank Stones: Reserved for Mega Stones that have viable niches in the Mix and Mega metagame. The flaws of these certain stones are only useful on some Pokemon.

Garchompite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, -10 Speed | Sand Force | N/A | N/A)

Galladite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Speed | Inner Focus | N/A | +4.4 kg)

Houndoomite (+40 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Solar Power | N/A | +14.5 kg)

Mewtwonite Y (+40 Attack, -20 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense + 10 Speed | Insomnia | N/A | +89 kg)

Sharpedonite (+20 Attack, +30 Defense, +15 Special Attack, +25 Special Defense, +10 Speed | Strong Jaw | N/A | +41.5 kg)

Steelixite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +30 Special Defense | Sand Force | N/A | +340 kg)

D Rank Stones: Reserved for Mega Stones that are poor or unviable in the Mix and Mega metagame. Stones in this rank have only specific Pokemon and will fail if used on anything else.

Abomasite (+40 Attack, +30 Defense, +40 Special Attack, +20 Special Defense, -20 Speed | Snow Warning | N/A | +49.5 kg)

Alakazite (+20 Defense,+40 Special Attack, +30 Speed | Trace | N/A | N/A)

Latiosite (+40 Attack, +20 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense | Levitiate | N/A | +10 kg)

InfernapeTropius11 · Jun 12, 2015

Reserved, just in case.

You may now post!

DarkeKnight · Jun 12, 2015

scp edit: We decided to use this for sample teams. The original post is in hide tags below.

Featured Sample Teams
for more Mix and Mega teams, check out the OM Team Archive

InfernapeTropius11's Klinklang Balance

Klinklang @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Frustration
- Wild Charge

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge

Vaporeon @ Sablenite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Roar

Nidoking @ Lucarionite
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 212 Atk / 96 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic Spikes

Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere

Gastrodon @ Slowbronite
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Earth Power

This was a fun team I made near the end of the MnM's second stint as OMotM. Klinklang was the starting point, because it's one of the best late game cleaners in the meta imho. It has the power to beat stall, the set up move to beat offense, and the bulk/typing to set up on half the meta. Nidoking was a mon I wanted to test as with Lucarionite it hits decently hard, outspeeds and obviously OHKOs Red Orb Raikou, and provides Toxic Spikes which helps weaken opposing walls. Gastrodon was another mon I wanted to test and it was a good addition due to being an excellent Red Orb Raikou counter, and Red Orb Raikou happens to be one of the best Klinklang answers, due to resisting all of its attacks post-Mega. Entei was added next as a revenge killer, and with Will-O-Wisp it can cripple Blue Orb Skarmory, another of Klinklang's few checks. Raikou acts as a great pivot, luring in special walls, such as Blissey, for Klinklang to set up on, scaring out Blue Orb Skarm/Ferro, and generally being a strong attacker. Finally, Vaporeon rounds out the team as the -ate check and only form of hazard control (it's usually the lead, and people don't know what to expect from it tbh). Overall this is a pretty solid and fun team around one of my favourite mons in the meta, Pinsirite Klinklang :D

Sorry, no replays with this version of the team, I have some with Dugtrio over Gastrodon though :^)

InfernapeTropius11's Cobalion Balance

Cobalion @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Volt Switch
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Quick Attack

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 240 HP / 244 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt

Arcanine @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Wild Charge
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz

Vaporeon @ Sablenite
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Mew @ Slowbronite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Psychic
- Heal Bell

Alakazam @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball

This is a pretty cool team that was my attempt at using Cobalion. Cobalion is actually a really neat mon, and while this set may seem a bit weird (no I'm not high, yes I do have Volt Switch + SD + two flying moves), it's actually gone through a couple of changes and this is the most successful set I have come up with. Volt Switch is actually so good on Cobalion, as in the early game it allows you to bring it in, scout for the burd check, then pivot out of it on the switch. Then you come in and sweep late game with Frustration (Quick Attack for Lopunnite/Diancite mons that outspeed you, altho generally get Arcanine/your walls to remove faster mons). PDon was added as a Xern check (watch out for Ingrain, but hardly anybody runs Xern anyway, and when they do it's usually Geo + 3 attacks) and bulky rocker that has good defensive synergy with Cobalion (credit AllJokesAside for this 2-mon core, sets are mine tho), and also threatens some of the common checks to Cobalion (such as Zapdos and Skarmory). I elected to go with a special PDon with Lava Plume and Thunderbolt for the nice burn chance (same as Scald) and Thunderbolt lures in and defeats Blue Orb Skarmory. This isn't too necessary on the team though, as the -atespeeder I chose to use can 2HKO Skarmory with rocks up, so you can try Thunder Wave to be more annoying/a better Xern check, or Earth Power for opposing Primal Groudon or levitating/Blue Orb Steel-types. Next came Arcanine, which is my favourite -atespeeder atm. It can get past common -ate checks such as Heatran with Close Combat, and Blue Orb Skarmory with Wild Charge. Now I decided to add a Wish-passer to help out Cobalion and Primal Groudon in particular. I was originally going to go with Slowbronite Blissey, but then I decided to go with Sablenite Vaporeon for a couple of reasons. The first was the Water typing. Resisting Fire (which is really common with PDon, Heatran, Entei, Arcanine, Volcarona, and a few other Fire types running around) was the first one. Secondly, I wanted something that could take on Terrakion (which this can). Thirdly, Scald is broken, although I wish it burned a bit more often when I actually need it to ;-; On Vaporeon, you can replace Roar with Toxic if you want, which helps it beat PDon, however you can't touch SubCM Keldeo then, so it's up to you. Next I knew I needed hazard removal (I sometimes forget that lol) and I also wanted Heal Bell support so I could play a little bit more recklessly with Cobalion early on in the match. Mew fit the bill perfectly. I went with Slowbronite for some more physical bulk, which allows it to also check -ates as I use no defensive Steels. It also surprises people who expect it to be Ampharosite or some form of offensive stone when their physical attacker is now walled :) Psychic is just a relatively strong STAB attack for Fighting types that it takes on, as well as doing decent damage to PDon. Finally, I have Alakazam as a mon that can revenge kill fast offensive mons such as Manaphy, and generally just hit hard. I originally used the standard Tail Glow + Absolite Manaphy, however both have been generally underwhelming. The only thing is, this is my only way to reliably defeat Manaphy without sacking a mon, especially if PDon is below half, as +3 Energy Ball does 50-59%. This is the most changeable piece tbh, and some mons you might want to play around with are Hoopa-U, Azelf, Gengar, Infernape, or Latios with Diancite (or Absolite if it is faster than base Manaphy). Overall this is a very fun and relatively easy to use balanced team that has the ability to counter most common threats (or at least all the ones I prepared for in teambuilding/have battled so far lol). Don't be afraid to play around with EVs or the last mon (although I would recommend leaving it as a strong, fast special attacker that can rk Manaphy), and most of all have fun!

TheBidoofus: Entei and His Fellow Hell Hounds

H-entei (Entei) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Return
- Stone Edge

Blissey (F) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind

Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Terrakion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Protect
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Victini @ Red Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Fusion Bolt

Archeops @ Charizardite X
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Team Idea: Entei is, in my qualified opinion, one of the best Pokemon in this tier, this is because of the insane power of this extreme speed, on top of fire STAB, e-speed runs through offense so the best idea was to break stall and other bulky teams, as entei can rarely pick up two hit knock outs on beefy, bulky pokemon, allowing for fat mons to use it as set up fodder, or just set up hazards on it, or something beneficial for the opponent.

How it works: Entei cleans offense, Skarm is -ate ability check, p-don check (play skillfully around w/ double switches to maintain rain), and sets hazards, Blissey can take advantage of weaker mons to sweep the floor, victini pressures p-don which typically switch in to Victini (v-create into max HP final gambit kills and makes way for #HenteiSweep), Archeops nukes with head smash (USE WISELY AT YOUR OWN RISK), and Terrak nukes with STAB attacks.

More Info:
Entei, as stated before, cleans offense with e-speed. But a question possibly asked right now is "why no altariaite?" The simple answer is that pinsirite entei beats altariaite entei because of the speed it gains after the mega and the fact it resists e-speed, and the only loss is an OHKO on Terrakion, which may be a downer for some, in which case, altariaite may be the better choice for a player who wants to banish terrak to hell with an e-speed. Sacred Fire is really just for steel types. Bulldoze is left out because sadly entei cannot learn both e-speed and bulldoze, so a loss to non-mega heatran is inevitable, but sacred fire does damage after a tran's mega. Lastly Edge Miss is for opposing entei and other super effective hits.

Blissey was added for the soul purpose of beating teams lacking calm mind users with psyshock, keldeo, terrak, or any other powerful fighting type hitting blissey's still lacking physical defense. After a calm mind, you can predict a spore from breloom and increase your chances of one shotting standard loom from 33.33% to 55.67%. Watch out for roar and whirlwind.

Skarm was added because there are no common electric/fighting coverage pokemon making skarm-bliss a basic core once again. Defog should probably be on this set, but if you choose not to bring it you probably have to follow my philosophy, "kill them before hazards are a problem." That being said, i will cover the non-defog variant, but if defog is added, spikes can probably be slashed. Not much to say about spikes, and stealth rock, they are just hazards punishing predictions. Roost is recovery. Whirlwind can play around with hazard stack and faze out non-magic bounce set-up sweepers. Also, beating P-don was an essential niche every team needs, and skarm fulfills this role perfectly. To top it off, it beats every common -iate ability users that are popular in this current metagame.

Victini was the first part of the nuke core which I made to beat bulky teams, and to pick off walls allowing for a #HenteiSweep. V-create in the sun is matched by no other move, even resisted it is probably the most powerful move. U-turn is just nice. Fusion Bolt is meant specifically for blue orb Skarms, and i guess some water types. Final Gambit is a move i am proud of innovating in this metagame, what's better than a chcked P-Don? A dead P-Don. P-Don is seen as an obvious easy switch in to a victini, but, if the opponent runs 0 speed P-Don, you outspeed p-don at -1 with Victini, and a final gambit (at full health) finishes off the beast known as p-don after a min roll v-create.

Terrakion is the next part, being the only one that can set up, it likes "fluffy walls," the walls that sit there while you punch it until the attacker is tired (toxiced to death or something). There is no stall team that can handle a +4 Terrak, assuming it can get enough boosts on said "fluffy walls." Close Combat is an absolute nuke with lucarionite, along with Stone Edge. And protect is to get the speed boost from mega-ing when you attack, not after. If you would like to beat Blissey especially you can run diancite to block back it's moves.

Archeops, Head Smash.

(low ladder, I don't wanna lose rank 1, lol):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-327605049
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-327609286
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-327748787
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-327755151
HIGH LADDER MATCH(ES):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-337286479

: Skarm gets two hit by head smash so go into blissey, so it kills itself, blissey lives at like 20%

Offensive rock types: Entei cannot revenge kill these, and my team hates taking rock type attacks (besides skarm, that lacks an attacking move (iron head can be ran over whirlwind), terrak beats them, assuming terrak outspeeds.

W/ thunder: although it can't switch in on anything but skarm, bliss, and entei. To deal with this just sack off stuff for damage.

Quantum Tesseract's Hyper Offense

An offensive team built around red orb raikou. Raikou breaks anything that doesn't resist/is blissey, while keldeo beats resists and blissey. Entei is there to revenge opposing atespeed, while Gyarados stops baton pass and pinsirspeed, which entei does't resist. Garchomp is a cleaner, either sweeping after atespeed is dead (it can live pinsirspeed), breaking walls with sd, or revenging fast threats like pidgeotite Gengar. Gengar is yet another extreme speed check, this time vs altarianite extreme speed. It can put foes to sleep, ohko entei, and abuse its perfect coverage. Watch out for magic bounce, however.

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stone Edge

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Gyarados @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Aqua Tail

Garchomp @ Metagrossite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage

Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Weather Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Keldeo-Resolute @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Protect
- Calm Mind

thesecondbest's Espeed Spam

ESPEED SPAM THE TEAM
i beat espeed (Scizor) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch

espeed is cool (Rayquaza) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Ascent
- V-create
- Extreme Speed

espeed is fair (Entei) @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Bulldoze
- Stone Edge

espeed is gross (Arcanine) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge

i, espeeder (Arceus) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
Happiness: 0
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail

espeed all day (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 40 Def / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

This team got me to top ten of the ladder as you can see in my signature. It got me 23-2 record for the blazikenite suspect (should have been 24-1 but stone edge likes missing :()
It's fairly self explanatory. VS offense, you have two espeeder checks in pdon and scizor. scizor can also remove hazards if they try stacking them (entei and arcanine don't like hazards)
skarm isn't a problem for this team because arcanine can wild charge it, ray can vcreate because air lock, and even arceus has air lock. pidgeotite gengar isn't a threat because of two lum berrys on the normal type espeeders, while the ate speeders can slap it in the face. Pdon is just so good. The speed evs on arcanine let you outspeed adamant entei, and the evs on arceus are there for some reason. groudon has some speed creep, some bulk, rest in attack.
This team isn't the greatest ever, but because it's ho you can climb to the top of ladder very quickly. and it's good enough.

Quantum Tesseract's Bulky Offense

This team is built around supporting a sweep from Landorus or Klingklang, as they have the attack to sweep and the bulk to live an -ate Extreme Speed. To that end, we have pokemon to remove their check sand counters. Keldeo and Raikou weaken Giratina-O, which is a common answer to both of my sweepers, while the former removes Blissey and the latter Arceus. They also both handle steel types like Skarmory. Mega Gengar deals with Primal Groudon, Mew, Altarianite and Heatran while Entei revenge kills fast threats such as Weavile and Zekrom.

Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere

Keldeo @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Secret Sword
- Focus Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Blazikenite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Protect

Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stone Edge

Klinklang @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Return
- Gear Grind
- Wild Charge

eviolite goomy's Blastoisinite Hoopa-U Squad

Zapdos @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Scizor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Roost

Hoopa-Unbound @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge

Deoxys-Speed @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 172 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Double-Edge
- Superpower
- Thunder

Latios @ Lucarionite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost

Hoopa-Unbound @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot

Our first member is somewhat hard to use but it can be really effective with the right support. The idea is to somehow bring this in on slower mons and click dark pulse. Almost all offensive mons are OHKO'd by it and nearly all slower bulkier mons are 2HKO'd by it. You'll only ever need to click psyshock against fighting types and fairies, focus blast is there only for umbreon and nasty plot is there to beat blissey. At +2 dark pulse actually 2HKOs blissey.
Generally this tier has a big speed gap between uninvested base 90s and max speed base 128s, the only relevant mons inbetween are Entei, Zygarde and Raikou, which beat Hoopa-u anyway. This mon takes advantage of that gap by running just enough speed to speedcreep uninvested base 90s, like pdon by a couple of points. The extra hp evs alongside with the fact that its stone doesn't drop defenses, gives it some really respectable special bulk, which allows it to switch in to weaker specially attacking bulky mons and not be revenge killed as easily by strong special attackers.

Scizor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Roost

Hoopa-u's biggest weaknesses are strong physical attackers. This scizor set counters all physical pixilate abusers and weavile. It has some great synergy with hoopa-u in the form of u-turn providing safe switch-ins. Unlike skarmory, this mon is able to keep up the momentum and it doesn't get bopped by the occasional thunder lures.

Zapdos @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Zapdos counters most aerilate abusers Scizor doesn't deal with too well. It's also a good hazard control. This Scizor-Zapdos core can counter pretty much every -atespeed abuser while providing some excellent volt-turn support for Hoopa-u

Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge

Of course every team needs one of these. It doesn't really matter that this set is standard and predictable, since hoopa-u bops all of Entei's counters. The only common -atespeed abusers that can somewhat break the Zapdos-Scizor core are pinsirite Antei and Arcanine. We're therefore running no speed with a bulkier spread on this Entei to better check pinsirite Entei.

Latios @ Lucarionite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost

Thanks to our pixilate check, we can afford to run our next mon, which is an offensive check to mainly Keldeo, Thundurus and pdon. The lucarionite conveniently puts it just one base speed point above pidgeotite thundurus and two points above pidgeotite/gengarite Gengar. In terms of power, Draco meteor and Psyshock hit equally hard as a soul dew Latios would. The pre-mega levitate still helps it safely switch in on pdon, which draco OHKOs or 2HKOs depending on their spread. Psyshock still OHKOs gengarite Gengar at -2.

Deoxys-Speed @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 172 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Double-Edge
- Superpower
- Thunder

Of course every team needs at least two e-speeders. The reason we're not going for any hazards on this team is that we're going to be switching around a lot thanks to the defensive volt-turn core. Keeping hazards off our side of the field is more important than keeping them on their side of the field and running defog along with a dedicated hazard lead is awkward. From team preview it would seem that this deoxys-s is our dedicated hazard lead, since no other mons on this team get any hazards. Instead we're running an offensive set that's meant to catch the opponent by surprise. it's a good late game win condition that can outspeed and pick off weakened opposing e-speeders. With its coverage it can pick off any weakened mon. There's enough bulk to reliably live any Entei's e-speed, while your e-speed 2HKOs it

All in all, this team has an incredible match up against most overused mons. Things to watch out for are e-killer Arceus, Kyogre and Mega-Kangaskhan. Arceus is beaten by scizor's superpower into one e-speed from deoxys-s. To beat kyogre and Mega-kangaskhan you basically have to sacrifice one mon to weaken them.

nv's Tipping The Scales: A Balanced Outlook

Slowbronite Florges was something that looked very interesting as a bulky win con that had the added ability of a spammable STAB in Moonblast while being able to keep itself healthy with Synthesis and Aromatherapy.

Next up, I knew I was going to need hazard control and very solid pivots so I added the infamous SkarmBliss core.

I knew now I needed a solid Altarianite Entei check that wasn't crippled by burn or set up on, so I went with defensive Primal Groudon.

While I had a solid defensive backbone and a win con, I lacked a way to speed up the game versus other potentially defensive teams, so I added a Stallbreaker Ampharosite Mew.

Lastly, I needed a solid option vs. offense in case my defensive backbone gets overwhelmed, so I added DD 3 Atks Salamencite Gyarados.

Florges @ Slowbronite
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

As I said in the hide tags above, this looked like a very interesting mon as, while it is "slow" by metagame standards, it served as a really bulky win con that couldn't be critted. The fact that it has a very spammable STAB move and the combination of Synthesis, Aromatherapy, and Calm Mind allows it to take on more defensive teams with ease and can battle against offense that doesn't boost such as Altarianite Entei or Pidgeotite Keldeo.

Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic / Whirlwind
- Iron Head

Next up, I added part one of the deadliest defensive core in Mix and Mega: Skarmory. With its ability to shut down nearly every -AteSpeed user, it can provide a lot for defensive and offensive teams alike. I am constantly torn between Toxic and Whirlwind as Toxic allows me to cripple something like Primal Groudon that may try and use Thunder or set up vs. me while Whirlwind is a more reliable answer to Steel-type Pinsirite users such as Cobalion, Metagross, and Klinklang.

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Shadow Ball
- Seismic Toss

The second part of the deadly SkarmBliss core, Sablenite Blissey is the epitome of defensive pivots in Mix and Mega. Shadow Ball in my opinion is near standard to run on Sablenite Blissey as you need to have some way to take down Gengar with ease as Pidgeotite variants get Hypnosis bounced back and Mega Gengar can't effectively trap it with Shadow Ball as it has to Sub up to avoid the 2HKO and as such it cannot click Perish Song. Seismic Toss is also nice with Shadow Ball as you can hit everything else for consistent damage. Stealth Rock since Florges has cleric support in Aromatherapy.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Roar / Sleep Talk

I went with Primal Groudon as I needed another check to -AteSpeed users as Skarmory is often prepared for by most good teams for example Entei running Will-o-Wisp or opposing Primal Groudon running Thunder. For this reason, the defensive set was the way to go. Rest gives PDon the recovery it so desires and with clerical support from Florges, it has the option of forgoing Sleep Talk and using Roar (which should be used if you lack Whirlwind on Skarmory).

Mew @ Ampharosite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Psychic

Ampharosite Mew was added as a very reliable stallbreaker and before the Baton Pass ban helped this team take on the plethora of Sablenite setup Mews that were running amok back in September. It is still reliable as ever as for some reason, not a lot of people expect this and as such it can get off a free Wisp against something like Pinsirite Cobalion and other Steel-types that can avoid Toxic from Skarmory or PDon's STABs such as Blue Orb Skarmory. Psychic is there mainly to take advantage of the +50 Special Attack Ampharosite gives and allows Mew to hit Keldeo and Gengar hard.

Gyarados @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Return
- Earthquake

Lastly, Salamencite Gyarados was more of a filler at first, but it has saved me many times with its amazing pre-Mega ability, Intimidate, which allows it to soft check things and provides it with amazing setup opportunities versus a lot of teams. With Dragon Dance and the new bulk given by Salamencite, Gyarados becomes a very potent threat against offense that may overwhelm my overall defensive team. Waterfall and Return are good enough coverage on their own, but I went with EQ since it is mainly filler anyways and I hate having to Sub up and not having the passive recovery of Leftovers and other support moves, such as Taunt, don't really fit well as it still can't taunt Sablenite users.

And there is my most successful Mix and Mega team. I will admit, Mix and Mega has and will always have a special place in my heart as it is the main reason I got into Other Metagames as a whole back in February (I always lurked before). Overall, while Sun and Moon aren't giving us any new Megas, I will be happy to see how the Gen 7 meta develops with the new Pokemon.

Florges @ Slowbronite
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

Skarmory @ Blue Orb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Iron Head

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Shadow Ball
- Seismic Toss

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Roar

Mew @ Ampharosite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Psychic

Gyarados @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Return
- Earthquake

M'joe'ra's The Burning Tank

THE BURNING TANK

I built this team as a fresh start for the permanent Mix and Mega ladder in order to get back into the flow of laddering due to the fact that my most recent team is outdated and now gets trounced pretty easily. Surprisingly enough this new team has worked out exceptionally well and allowed me to break back into top 20 on the ladder on an alt and netted some wins against some notable and strong players.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume

Yes this is a very unorthodox set and spread, but it gives Primaldon something that other variations do not have, longevity. Rest allows Primaldon switch in repeatedly vs mons like Entei and Arcanine and rest off the damage when needed to take on more hits. Sleep Talk keeps Primaldon from being completely useless while asleep but whether it will do something or not comes down to RNG. Earthquake is there to deal STAB damage which is still very strong even without investment due to the 396 attack stat which it will be utilizing to kill the common -ate users that it is designed to stop. Lava Plume is the secondary STAB that allows Primaldon to hit flying types, grass types, mons with Levitate and deal burns which rack up the chip damage against mons like Latias and force a Heal Bell use by Blissey. This spread gives allows you to take hits from Entei, Arcanine and other similar -ate users as best as possible, taking very minimal damage in the process and racking up damage since most -ate users don't usually run recovery.

Volcanion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Protect

The Burning Tank itself. Volcanion usually goes overlooked due to its most common set in Cameruptite being outclassed by Hoopa-Unbound, but I am using this dark horse differently. This set gives Volcanion some much needed speed while still adding to its already impressive offensive capabilities. Steam Eruption is the main attraction of Volcanion. A 110 base power, 95 accuracy, Adaptability boosted STAB move with a 30% chance to burn, this move is nothing to sneeze at. While this move is stopped by Red Orb users and eaten up by the likes of Blissey and Latias, it has the chance to burn Blissey and Latias thus adding some very important chip damage. But what about Red Orb users you ask, those mons are dealt with Volcanion's other two attacks Flamethrower and Earth Power. Flamethrower is the secondary Adaptability stab that doesn't have a miss chance and still hits very hard against Red Orb users even though they usually resist it due to the fact that it is boosted by the Harsh Sunshine that a Red Orb user brings. Earth Power allows you to smack most Red Orb users for super effective damage and fish for s.def drops if you are getting desperate vs Blissey. Protect allows you to get off the Mega Evolution giving you the speed stat of 311 you need to outpace threats like Entei, Adamant or pre-mega Arcanine and pre-mega Landorus-T. Max special attack and speed investment combined with a timid nature gives Volcanion the biggest chance to hit hard and not get killed before it can attack.

Thundurus @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

Thundurus is a top tier threat in Mix and Mega and can run through your team if given the chance. Prankster Substitute allows you to get off the mega evolution relatively freely and screw over Hypnosis Gengar and status users. Thunder is the main STAB which hits exceptionally hard when coming off of the +65 s.atk boost from Pidgeotite combined with Thundurus' already very high s.atk stat, it doesn't even have the risk of missing with the No Guard addition from the stone. Focus Blast allows you to hit ground types for the equivalent of super effective Hidden Power Ice damage with the added boon of a 10% s.def drop chance. It also allows you to break through Blissey which can be a bit of a nuisance for this team. Nasty Plot skyrockets Thundurus' already amazingly high s.atk stat to unbelievable levels thus giving it the last bit of power it needs to plow through opposing teams and to combat Calm Mind Blissey. The spread used may seem a bit unusual but it is very crucial that this spread is used. 8 hp allows you to take 4 Stealth Rock switchins without dying while giving you 301 hp which makes Thundurus capable of surviving 3 seismic tosses from Blissey which can be game deciding.

Weavile @ Glalitite
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Frustration
- Swords Dance

Glalite Weavile is the only mon with offensive priority on this team and thus exerts a ton of pressure especially against more offensively oriented teams. Fake Out allows basically free damage and when combined with another attack it can end up in a KO when without it there would not be one. It also racks up the chip damage which against mons with no recovery can be crucial and makes your opponent think twice about their lead or switchin. Feint is secondary priority for Weavile and serves the purpose of damaging opponents who rely on Protect to not die or take damage from Fake Out. Feint also has the perk of having the same priority as Extreme Speed, thus you may be able to add on more damage or kill an unsuspecting -ate user such as unboosted Zygarde. Frustration is an extremely strong move when under the influence of Refrigerate due to the 1.3 boost from the ability and the newly gained 1.5 STAB boost. When paired with Weavile's very high speed of 427 and the move that I will talk about next, it can heavily damage or outright sweep teams. Although Weavile is more effective against offense, it isn't complete dead weight against more bulkier teams either thanks to this last move. Swords Dance may seem like an odd choice due to Weavile's frailty and lack of chances to setup, but this gives you another breaker beyond burn chip damage + attacks to beat Blissey or other bulkier mons. It is difficult to find a chance to set up with Swords Dance, but you usually can do it against Blissey or during the switches that Weavile forces. Although it may be tempting, do not use Swords Dance wildly, if you use it at the wrong time you may die, be put in a bad position, or at least can end up with too little health to beat something like Seismic Toss Blissey. Weavile is one of only two breakers you have on your team, use it wisely.

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Latias acts as the second of a three part defensive backbone. It gives the team a defensive answer to Primaldon and gives much needed hazard control. This spread may seem odd, but it does serve a purpose. It allows Latias to take two Aerilate Noivern Boombursts after Stealth Rock damage while still retaining as much physical bulk as possible in order to take on other physical attackers such as Landorus-T. Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice which still comes off strong even with no investment due to its high base power and the 1.5 s.atk boost from Soul Dew while also keeping Latias from being complete deadweight while taunted. Toxic puts your opponent on a timer by racking up growing damage each turn which can be abused by other team members in Protect Volcanion, Substitute Thundurus and Fake Out Weavile. Roost is essential and standard recovery in order to keep longevity and rack up poison damage. Defog gives important hazard control and allows you to get an evasion drop on your opponent thus making sure that Draco Meteor and Toxic will land.

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Judgment
- Earth Power/Toxic

*Record scratch* *Freeze Frame* Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation. Gyarados. As you can see this team gets 6-0d by Charizardite X or Sceptilite Gyarados if it gets a DD up. I literally made this last mon Arceus-Fairy because it was immune to Outrage and can kill it with Judgment while having Stealth Rock in its learnset since I didn't have a setter yet outside of Primaldon and that was set to be Rest-Talk. Recover gives Arceus longevity which can allow it to switch in and take hits more times if needed. Judgment is the strong Gyarados killing STAB which reaches 120 bp when combined with the Pixie Plate boost. Earth Power hits resists for decent damage and can kill off annoying mons like Red Orb Raikou. Toxic can also be used but you will be useless against steel types but allows Arceus to join Latias in putting your opponent on a timer, what move you end up using is up to you. This set is actually the recommended Smogdex set for Stealth Rock Arceus-Fairy so it runs the suggested EV spread. It's probably inefficient in Mix and Mega but it gives you the needed physical defense while keeping 290 speed which allows you to outspeed unboosted Charizardite X Gyarados so that's a plus.

Vs stall
Vs #1 ranked player
Vs #3 ranked player

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume

Volcanion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Protect

Thundurus @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

Weavile (F) @ Glalitite
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Frustration
- Swords Dance

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Judgment
- Earth Power

~~Needs more pictures~~

Why doesn't Archeops have any rank? Holding a Pinsirite or something would make it kinda ridiculous.

Also, is Victini actually good with Cameruptite? The speed loss seems really significant.

Ghoul King · Jun 12, 2015

DarkeKnight said:
~~Needs more pictures~~

Why doesn't Archeops have any rank? Holding a Pinsirite or something would make it kinda ridiculous.

Also, is Victini actually good with Cameruptite? The speed loss seems really significant.

Victini can set Trick Room.

Viability Rankings are under construction, as I've already said. Not going to be getting to working more on them today, unfortunately. :(

acidphoenix · Jun 12, 2015

spelling/grammar check because these things bother me

-no comma between landorust's stones
-misspelled manectite and pidgeotite on thundurus
-misspelled cameruptite on kyurem
-misspelled manectite on gengar
-didn't capitalize Orb on ferrothorn
-misspelled manectite on keldeo
-didn't capitalize Medichamite on azumarill
-didn't capitalize Orb on roserade
-misspelled Sharpedonite on Tyranitar
-listed aerodactylite twice and misspelled pinsirite on staraptor
-misspelled glalilite on weavile

thdhted · Jun 12, 2015

DarkeKnight said:
~~Needs more pictures~~

Why doesn't Archeops have any rank? Holding a Pinsirite or something would make it kinda ridiculous.

Also, is Victini actually good with Cameruptite? The speed loss seems really significant.

Victini is a GREAT cameruptite user, with an extremely powerful blue flare and bolt strike. Psychic and focus blast are rather powerful as well as energy ball for hitting ground types for better damage.

MaestroDeSWAG · Jun 12, 2015

Before I get into any other stuff, I want to give some suggestions for the viability rankings.

Arcanine for C/B
This may seem odd, especially since Entei exists and would seem to directly outclass it in every way, however arcanine has morning sun, which allows it to perform similar to stall breaker Tflame, minus taunt. Infernape can as well, however it lacks Espeed, but it does get taunt.

Lucario should be substantially higher, as it's the only Espeeder (excluding arceus and smeargle) with access to swords dance. It is also the only one that is able to beat levitran with its other stab, and actually it's the only one able to beat it at all, bar CC Arcanine and waterfall/surf Dnite. I'd actually put it at A.

I'm inclined at present to agree with DarkeKnight; I'm not convinced cameruptite is really worth noting on victini. I mean, the ability to set it yourself and then destroy stuff is cool, but it only lasts a short time, and victini isn't actually THAT slow, even after you take the speed drop into account. A lot of stuff will underspeed it, like cresselia and basically any defensive mon ever, since sablenite will be everywhere. I guess V-create lowers speed, but then you will have trouble setting up TR again. I think there are just far better TR sweepers, like reuniclus. It has only 10 Spe, crazy 110/105/115 defenses, and great 165 SpA. And it beats cress. It can only deal up to 47% with shadow ball, but that's a ton compared to cress's max 28% with the same. It also has more reliable recovery.

Speaking of which, someone should test reuniclus for me and come back w/ a rank since my computer is still down.

(Ghoul King, I don't even sorta expect you to implement these yet, I'm just writing them down before I forget.)

InfernapeTropius11, if you'd be willing to start hosting more tournaments in the upcoming weeks, that'd be awesome, especially since schools out for me and I should be able to start participating more soon.

skies · Jun 12, 2015

importable

Steadfast | 89 / 225 / 100 / 105 / 90 / 91

Insomnia | 60 / 105 / 40 / 170 / 105 / 120

Pixilate | 91 / 174 / 115 / 140 / 100 / 80

Sheer Force | 100 / 120 / 130 / 140 / 130 / 80

Filter | 79 / 113 / 150 / 85 / 125 / 78

No Guard | 79 / 115 / 75 / 190 / 90 / 131

Here's a team for people looking to play! I've yet to test this a ton, but it's still functioning well thus far. Landorus-T is the late game cleaner. With DoubleDance and incredibly powerful STAB moves, and that sky high Attack stat, it's so filled with potential! Gengar is actually not Mega Evolving for some reason; I think it has to do with two Mewtwonite on the team. However, an Ampharosite is something I'd like to test because power! Anyways, Dragonite is very powerful and very hard to stop with incredible typing, bulk, and power. Victini is kind of dissapointing so far, but it hits like a freight train when it is able to attack. Also quite bulky! Blastoise is just used for a form of hazard removal, and it offers nice synergy and defensive utility with the team as a whole. Tornadus is just so powerful! It blasts through the tier with a very high Special Attack stat and a great STAB move in Hurricane! Very cool Pokemon, in my opinion. Just a simple team that aims to hit hard and fast, with a little bit of bulk mixed in. Try it out!

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1497 versus xJownage
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1498 versus motherlove
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1499 versus woodboys23

Funbot28 · Jun 12, 2015

Im proposing a ban of:

with 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http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

HP: 120
Atk: 80
Def: 170
SpA: 95
SpDef: 180
Spe: 55

Cress is just too bulky with Sablenite and it eats hits like nothing. It is just too fat and overcentralizing and should be considered for at least a suspect.

Here's a replay of its bulk: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1500

Pls for the sake of the meta

InfernapeTropius11 · Jun 12, 2015

Funbot28 said:
Im proposing a ban of:

with 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http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

HP: 120
Atk: 80
Def: 170
SpA: 95
SpDef: 180
Spe: 55

Cress is just to bulky with Sablenite and it eats hits like nothing. It is just too bulky and overcentralizing and should be considered for at least a suspect.

Here's a replay of its bulk: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1500

Pls for the sake of the meta

I don't have too much time right now, but Red Orb Victini has around a 50% chance to 2HKO it iirc, and only after it Mega evolves (it takes around 67% if it switches in). Think about that--one U-Turn or weak attack and it's 2HKOed. Entei can burn it with Sacred Fire forcing it to get its Moonlights PP stalled. Ampharosite Mew also wins via Mold Breaker Taunt combined with WoW/Toxic. I'm sure there are more ways to beat it, but I can't remember others right now, but these three are on many teams anyway. I think Cresselia is an amazing Pokemon that should be on every stall team, but I don't think it is banworthy, at least not at this stage. The thing to remember about beating Cresselia is to Poison it or Burn it (via Scald, Sacred Fire, Sludge Bomb, or another move like that) and then stall out its Moonlights via hitting it with decently hard attacks, as Moonlight only has 8 PP. I think there are ways to beat it, and it is just another threat to build around--but not a banworthy one.

xJownage · Jun 12, 2015

xJownage said:
Actually, I have found out firsthand just how extremely broken something is. Sablenite Cresselia is absolutely ridiculous, solely because its so fucking bulky its basically unbreakable without boosting. Not to mention that most stuff can't boost on it while it CMs. This thing centralizes offense so much its ridiculous. Crocune in AAA has had some people argue for its banning, but it has switch-ins and reliable checks. Cress?...Not so much. What exactly CHECKS it? Not much.

252 SpA Gengar (Pidgeotite) Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 144-170 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-T (Mewtonite X)(Base 225) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 135-160 (30.4 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini (Red orb) V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia in Harsh Sun: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
When Red Orb Victini's V-create has to be adamant to reliably 2hko...yeah.
252+ Atk Aerilate Landorus-T (pinsirite) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 147-174 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 11.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can't check it with physical attacks, you can't check it with special attacks, you can't status it...literally nothing will beat it. Lets all run red orb victini just for this. Until it runs shadow ball / dark pulse. Which it will, it has a free slot between CM, Moonlight, and Psyshock. Although moonlight is mitigated in weather, it still can make those KOs and watch the weather go away, so Keldeo can't check it either because it just gets nearly OHKO'd by +1 psyshock. This thing 6-0s the entire fucking metagame on all sides of the spectrum. I really don't know how we overlooked this for so long, but this thing is almost unkillable without boosting, and thats disgusting.

Council post.

The problem with Cresselia is the same as the problem with Mega Rayquaza, literally. It centralizes the metagame just to CHECK it. Literally, it has basically zero switch-ins while its CMing because it shrugs off every single attack easily and keeps boosting in your face. The only ways to beat it are to status it or use mold breaker, but oh wait, statusing it with sacred fire doesn't matter, its still really hard to do 38% damage to it in the first place. Please ban this garbage.

Pikachuun · Jun 12, 2015

Reposting the code here so that way it's more accessible

http://pastebin.com/tZ631UfF

Code:

exports.BattleScripts = {
    init: function () {
        for (var i in this.data.Items) {
            if (this.data.Items[i].megaStone) {
                this.modData('Items', i).onTakeItem = function (item, source) {
                    if (source.canMegaEvo || item.megaEvolves === source.baseTemplate.baseSpecies) return false;
                    return true;
                };
            }
        }
    }
};

ryan · Jun 12, 2015

This is a really, really cool OM idea. Landorus-T, as it is in most OMs, seems really fucking strong, especially because it only uses its Flying typing defensively. If I read everything correctly, this makes it a viable user of tons of Mega Stones. The most notable ones I can think of are Salamencite, Atlarianite, Pinsirite, and Sceptilite. Ground/Flying, Ground/Fairy, and Ground/Dragon (it gets Outrage!) are all killer typings, and even though it gets a useless ability and +40 SpAtk with Sceptilite, it also gets +25 Atk and +25 Spe, putting it up to 170/116 offensive stats.

Keldeo is another obvious one because its ability is useless. It could also potentially use a physical attacking Mega Stone and run Swords Dance with priority Aqua Jet.

Hard to come up with examples for it, but Venusaurite also sounds fun. Thick Fat gives resistances or takes away weaknesses to common Fire- and Ice-type moves. Celebi seems like a good candidate for it, giving it 100/118/140/122/120/100 Base Stats and making it only weak to five types as opposed to seven while still walling a ton of shit. Also sounds really cool on Ferrothorn because its Speed stat stays low for Gyro Ball and it gains a resistance and becomes only 2x weak to Fire. It would also get 74/171/136 bulk with 112 Atk. *_*

MaestroDeSWAG · Jun 12, 2015

hollywood said:
This is a really, really cool OM idea. Landorus-T, as it is in most OMs, seems really fucking strong, especially because it only uses its Flying typing defensively. If I read everything correctly, this makes it a viable user of tons of Mega Stones. The most notable ones I can think of are Salamencite, Atlarianite, Pinsirite, and Sceptilite. Ground/Flying, Ground/Fairy, and Ground/Dragon (it gets Outrage!) are all killer typings, and even though it gets a useless ability and +40 SpAtk with Sceptilite, it also gets +25 Atk and +25 Spe, putting it up to 170/116 offensive stats.

Keldeo is another obvious one because its ability is useless. It could also potentially use a physical attacking Mega Stone and run Swords Dance with priority Aqua Jet.

Hard to come up with examples for it, but Venusaurite also sounds fun. Thick Fat gives resistances or takes away weaknesses to common Fire- and Ice-type moves. Celebi seems like a good candidate for it, giving it 100/118/140/122/120/100 Base Stats and making it only weak to five types as opposed to seven while still walling a ton of shit. Also sounds really cool on Ferrothorn because its Speed stat stays low for Gyro Ball and it gains a resistance and becomes only 2x weak to Fire. It would also get 74/171/136 bulk with 112 Atk. *_*

Venusaurite is great for celebi; it gives it awesome bulk and a great ability that helps it better fulfil the role of a sub/boost passer, and it works for literally every other grass type out there as well. The best part is thick fat. It is honestly great for a lot of fat mons, since it just basically gives them a resistance to those two and adds a ton of bulk.

xJownage said:
Council post.

The problem with Cresselia is the same as the problem with Mega Rayquaza, literally. It centralizes the metagame just to CHECK it. Literally, it has basically zero switch-ins while its CMing because it shrugs off every single attack easily and keeps boosting in your face. The only ways to beat it are to status it or use mold breaker, but oh wait, statusing it with sacred fire doesn't matter, its still really hard to do 38% damage to it in the first place. Please ban this garbage.

I think it's number one problem is that, aside from that, it can't be worn down, at least from status. You can hit it w/ scalds and stuff, but it still makes life really annoying for balance and stall. Really aggressive HO teams can muscle past it, but even they have to seriously prepare for it, especially w/ the overall nerf to knock off. It's just so insanely bulky, it's kinda stupid.

MaestroDeSWAG · Jun 12, 2015

unfixable said:
importable

Steadfast | 89 / 225 / 100 / 105 / 90 / 91

Insomnia | 60 / 105 / 40 / 170 / 105 / 120

Pixilate | 91 / 174 / 115 / 140 / 100 / 80

Sheer Force | 100 / 120 / 130 / 140 / 130 / 80

Filter | 79 / 113 / 150 / 85 / 125 / 78

No Guard | 79 / 115 / 75 / 190 / 90 / 131

Here's a team for people looking to play! I've yet to test this a ton, but it's still functioning well thus far. Landorus-T is the late game cleaner. With DoubleDance and incredibly powerful STAB moves, and that sky high Attack stat, it's so filled with potential! Gengar is actually not Mega Evolving for some reason; I think it has to do with two Mewtwonite on the team. However, an Ampharosite is something I'd like to test because power! Anyways, Dragonite is very powerful and very hard to stop with incredible typing, bulk, and power. Victini is kind of dissapointing so far, but it hits like a freight train when it is able to attack. Also quite bulky! Blastoise is just used for a form of hazard removal, and it offers nice synergy and defensive utility with the team as a whole. Tornadus is just so powerful! It blasts through the tier with a very high Special Attack stat and a great STAB move in Hurricane! Very cool Pokemon, in my opinion. Just a simple team that aims to hit hard and fast, with a little bit of bulk mixed in. Try it out!

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1497 versus xJownage
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1498 versus motherlove
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-mixandmega-1499 versus woodboys23

Sorry for the double post, but gengar would honestly just be better off w/ Gengarite, Pidgeotite, or Absolite anyways, lol. All of them give more speed, don't take away from bulk, and don't waste as much (or any) in Atk. And they all have better abilities :P... I mean, Mewtwonite Y gives you some more special bulk, but that's literally it, and as omnipresent as priority is, being super physically frail isn't optimal.

Cool team though, it really demonstrates some top-tier threats!

xJownage · Jun 12, 2015

Pidgeotite Gengar Ev'd correctly can actually tank a hit from +1 altarianite Dnite, which is huge for offensive teams. If you want a check to dnite (all variants), go with Latiasite Heatran. It can set rocks, has 160 special attack, and great bulk.

MaestroDeSWAG HO teams can't beat cress in the first place, its so stupidly bulky that unless you run Red Orb victini you literally have zero chance to stop it.

thdhted · Jun 12, 2015

MaestroDeSWAG said:
Before I get into any other stuff, I want to give some suggestions for the viability rankings.

Arcanine for C/B
This may seem odd, especially since Entei exists and would seem to directly outclass it in every way, however arcanine has morning sun, which allows it to perform similar to stall breaker Tflame, minus taunt. Infernape can as well, however it lacks Espeed, but it does get taunt.

Lucario should be substantially higher, as it's the only Espeeder (excluding arceus and smeargle) with access to swords dance. It is also the only one that is able to beat levitran with its other stab, and actually it's the only one able to beat it at all, bar CC Arcanine and waterfall/surf Dnite. I'd actually put it at A.

I'm inclined at present to agree with DarkeKnight; I'm not convinced cameruptite is really worth noting on victini. I mean, the ability to set it yourself and then destroy stuff is cool, but it only lasts a short time, and victini isn't actually THAT slow, even after you take the speed drop into account. A lot of stuff will underspeed it, like cresselia and basically any defensive mon ever, since sablenite will be everywhere. I guess V-create lowers speed, but then you will have trouble setting up TR again. I think there are just far better TR sweepers, like reuniclus. It has only 10 Spe, crazy 110/105/115 defenses, and great 165 SpA. And it beats cress. It can only deal up to 47% with shadow ball, but that's a ton compared to cress's max 28% with the same. It also has more reliable recovery.

Speaking of which, someone should test reuniclus for me and come back w/ a rank since my computer is still down.

(Ghoul King, I don't even sorta expect you to implement these yet, I'm just writing them down before I forget.)

InfernapeTropius11, if you'd be willing to start hosting more tournaments in the upcoming weeks, that'd be awesome, especially since schools out for me and I should be able to start participating more soon.

Quite frankly, i have actually tested cameruptite victini, it works well if you've got a different Red Orb user. It has very good power, and its bulk is a quite good 100/130/130. tbh, victini probably needs the banhammer after cresselia gets it. Red Orb victini has to be prepared for, or you lose to it. the TR set is quite fantastic and has gotten me many wins, simply because HO has no way of handling it. Stall hates having to switch in Blue Orb ferrothorn/heatran to take V-creates, when victini can surprise them with a focus blast. It can also be an annoying user of pigeotenite with a spammable inferno.

xJownage Heatran can be beaten, like any steel by any D-nite carrying Superpower, one suprised me recently with that.

OLD GREGG (im back baby) · Jun 12, 2015

This looks and interesting really fun will have to jump on aqua and give it a go soon.

MaestroDeSWAG · Jun 12, 2015

thdhted said:
Quite frankly, i have actually tested cameruptite victini, it works well if you've got a different Red Orb user. It has very good power, and its bulk is a quite good 100/130/130. tbh, victini probably needs the banhammer after cresselia gets it. Red Orb victini has to be prepared for, or you lose to it. the TR set is quite fantastic and has gotten me many wins, simply because HO has no way of handling it. Stall hates having to switch in Blue Orb ferrothorn/heatran to take V-creates, when victini can surprise them with a focus blast. It can also be an annoying user of pigeotenite with a spammable inferno.

xJownage Heatran can be beaten, like any steel by any D-nite carrying Superpower, one suprised me recently with that.

How much does superpower do, out of curiosity? Unless it's a ohko, heatran could easily run HP ice just for that.

Here's a cool set I came up with today:

Heatran @ Diancite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Protect

Tran is the perfect diancite mon due to its typing granting a 4x resist to fridgespeed and Pixispeed and a 2x to aerilate-speed. Also, it just barely outpaces a lot of stuff due to its weird speed. 137 Spe is no joke, even in M&M. Along w/ that, it gets godlike 190 SpA to break stuff. It's ability and typing let it check stall and offense alike, and it's still not SUPER frail w/ 91/66/66 defenses. Also, it can't be statused, except by mold breaker Twave. Basically, it's AoA diancie, just more so. And w/ better typing.

thesecondbest · Jun 12, 2015

put noivern on the ranks, altarianite boomburst set cleans up teams. Also banettite smeargle/breloom is very solid, breloom for a powerful sub punch set and smeargle to pass to aformentioned noivern, this combo won me a few games

InfernapeTropius11 · Jun 12, 2015

Alright, more in-depth post on Sablenite Cresselia.

First of all, xJownage, don't calc using Leftovers Sablenite Cresselia x_x

Btw for some of my analyses I'll be using Rocks since I personally think they are pretty easy to get up, with setters like Heatran and Blue Orb Ferrothorn that can switch in and get them up on half the meta, and then there are Moldy setters which are pretty much guaranteed to get them up.

Pidgeotite Gengar:
It can't switch in and set up on Pidgeotite Gengar, and I think that the calc provided by xJownage is a bit misleading (if you switch out, it won't be to Gengar). Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 284-336 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Cresselia hasn't Mega evolved yet so is just switching in)

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 212-252 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO (after both have Mega evolved)

So basically, Cresselia gets cleanly 2HKOd if it switches in on Pidgeotite Gengar without already Mega evolving. If it has already Mega evolved, it has a very high chance to get 2HKOd (guaranteed after Stealth Rock). If it comes in safely, it takes the above 47.7%-56.7% and gets to +1, in which case this happens:

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 144-170 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO

Min rolls, Cresselia has lost 80.1%, or 92.6% after Stealth Rocks. High rolls it has lost 94.9%, or guaranteed KO (107.4%) after Stealth Rocks. That's a clean 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, at even the first turn and +1 the second turn. This also isn't factoring in the possible SpD drop from Shadow Ball that will allow Pigeotite Gengar to win if it nabs the drop in the first two turns (there is a 40% chance to get the drop on Turn 1, Turn 2, or both), so theoretically, in the worst case scenario, if Rocks are up, Pidgeotite Gengar has a 70% chance of winning.

Summary: Cresselia can't switch in directly, even after it has Mega evolved. If Cresselia gets a free switch-in, it only has a 30% chance to use Gengar as set up bait.

Ampharosite Mew:

Technically Gyaradosite works as well, but Dragon-typing is better than Dark-typing on Mew, especially with the prevalence of U-Turn on Pokemon like Landorus-T and Victini.

Simply put, this can come in and wipe out Cresselia. It can Taunt it, burn it, and stall it out. Taunt in general from any Mold Breaker Pokemon just shuts Cresselia down.

Summary: Ampharosite Mew switches in and wins. It can do this throughout the game with access to great recovery in Roost. Of course Cresselia is unlikely to stay in against Mew, but Mew has U-Turn to keep up momentum for your team and stay one jump ahead when it comes to winning the game and eliminating the teammates Cresselia can run away to.

Red Orb Victini:

If Cresselia hasn't yet Mega evolved:

252 Atk Red Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 280-330 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now if it has (btw I was wrong earlier, this is the proper calc):

252 Atk Red Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Rocks)

Even if it is already Mega evolved it gets 2HKOd barring immense bad luck, Red Orb Victini will almost always win. Even though Moonlight recovers 2/3 health in Sun, it still takes massive damage. Also, this:

4 SpA Red Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 178-211 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (52.3% chance to 2HKO after Rocks)

So Cresselia can't even PP stall V-Create out as Blue Flare does almost as much. If it is special Victini (which is also viable btw, 150 SpA, Blue Flare, and Desolate Land is no joke js):

252 SpA Red Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 211-249 (47.5 - 56%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Rocks)

It still does a ton.

Summary: Cresselia can't switch in safely, and it is forced to constantly use Moonlight, even if it gets a safe switch in. It can attempt to PP stall V-Create (recovering more via Moonlight than V-Create does) but V-Create and Blue Flare both do around half, so Victini wins if it runs both, which imo is the best set for partially this reason, partially just to bop physical walls. Blue Flare also has a 20% burn chance

Gengarite Gengar:

Now, obviously, you can't use this and Pidgeotite Gengar but either wins. This is very simple. First use Perish Song, then spam Protect and Sub until the counter is at 1, switch out and your Gengar is still alive but you've got one dead Cresselia.

Summary: Rekt

Lucarionite Rampardos:

Awesome wallbreaker, bops Cresselia even after Mega evolving:

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucarionite Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 246-290 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

bopped asf

Summary: rip Cresselia. This probably isn't the most competitively viable one, but it shows it can be overwhelmed--Rock isn't even SE on Cresselia. Admittedly, you probably will severely cripple yourself from recoil and it does have 200 base attack with a 150 BP Adaptability-boosted STAB, but Rampardos is cool, and it is the Pokemon with the highest attack that isn't a mega, uber, or banned.

Blastoisinite Hydreigon:

Hydreigon is also a really cool Pokemon, and with Mega Launcher Dark Pulse, it can beat Cresselia:

252 SpA Mega Launcher Blastoisinite Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 294-348 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Launcher Blastoisinite Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 198-234 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 21.1% chance to 2HKO

Minimum rolls are a guaranteed OHKO without Rocks. Plus, it can even switch in when its at +1 and win if you get a timely flinch.

Summary: Yet another thing that wins.

Charizardite X Landorus-Therian:

Gaining a cool secondary Dragon typing, Tough Claws, and its access to Outrage makes this a great wallbreaker, that also beats Cresselia after a little bit of prior damage and Rocks

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizardite X Landorus-T Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 172-204 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Adamant does a lot better:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizardite X Landorus-T Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 189-223 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Summary: After a bit of prior damage and Rocks, Jolly Charizardite X Lando-T can kill Cresselia. Adamant variants don't even need the prior damage (94.1% of the time), they just need Rocks.

Medichamite Mawile:

This can't 2HKO Cresselia, but it can after some prior damage (such as U-Turn from Lando-T or Victini or something like that)

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 154-183 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 136-162 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Sucker Punch does more if you predict it is going to attack:

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 182-216 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Summary: It can greatly dent Cresselia and force it to keep recovering and stalling for a crit. Iron Head can also fish for flinches. This is probably my weakest example, but it can still do enough to Cresselia to have a chance to KO it after some burn damage such as from Entei or a Scald user.

TL; DR: While not much stuff can break through Cresselia, there are some Pokemon that can muscle past it. In my opinion, every good balance or offensive team should have at least one, if not more, of these Pokemon anyways. I can't speak for stall since I don't use that playstyle, but it has a Cress too (~~first to boost up wins y/y~~). I'm sure there are other Pokemon that can beat it, and especially once it is statused or after Rocks, many Pokemon can do a lot of damage to it. In conclusion, I believe Cresselia is an amazing Pokemon on stall that really boosts the viability of the playstyle in such a power-creeped metagame like Mix and Mega, and it really deserves its S Ranking, but it does NOT need the banhammer, as there are more than a few easy ways to beat it. I will admit most of these options are only viable on balance or offense, but every balanced or offensive team should have one of them or a similar Pokemon that can accomplish the same role as they are all great tbh lol. So yeah, if you read the whole thing kudos to you lol, there are ways to beat Cresselia.

Chopin Alkaninoff · Jun 12, 2015

Ghoul King said:
Current suspects for unbanning are:
—Potentially Kangaskhanite being made more widely available. This will require testing first, and is not a high priority.

How about unbanning Kangashkanite to anyone with Guts and Hustle? They have the same boost of x1.5 and only have a minor drawback of Accuracy/losing HP.

MaestroDeSWAG · Jun 12, 2015

Chopin Alkaninoff said:
How about unbanning Kangashkanite to anyone with Guts and Hustle? They have the same boost of x1.5 and only have a minor drawback of Accuracy/losing HP.

No. They aren't even similar. However, I don't mean to say that I think kangaskhanite could never be unbanned, but that's just an arbitrary connection.

InfernapeTropius11 said:
Alright, more in-depth post on Sablenite Cresselia.

First of all, xJownage, don't calc using Leftovers Sablenite Cresselia x_x

Btw for some of my analyses I'll be using Rocks since I personally think they are pretty easy to get up, with setters like Heatran and Blue Orb Ferrothorn that can switch in and get them up on half the meta, and then there are Moldy setters which are pretty much guaranteed to get them up.

Pidgeotite Gengar:
It can't switch in and set up on Pidgeotite Gengar, and I think that the calc provided by xJownage is a bit misleading (if you switch out, it won't be to Gengar). Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 284-336 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Cresselia hasn't Mega evolved yet so is just switching in)

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 212-252 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO (after both have Mega evolved)

So basically, Cresselia gets cleanly 2HKOd if it switches in on Pidgeotite Gengar without already Mega evolving. If it has already Mega evolved, it has a very high chance to get 2HKOd (guaranteed after Stealth Rock). If it comes in safely, it takes the above 47.7%-56.7% and gets to +1, in which case this happens:

252 SpA Pidgeotite Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 144-170 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO

Min rolls, Cresselia has lost 80.1%, or 92.6% after Stealth Rocks. High rolls it has lost 94.9%, or guaranteed KO (107.4%) after Stealth Rocks. That's a clean 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, at even the first turn and +1 the second turn. This also isn't factoring in the possible SpD drop from Shadow Ball that will allow Pigeotite Gengar to win if it nabs the drop in the first two turns (there is a 40% chance to get the drop on Turn 1, Turn 2, or both), so theoretically, in the worst case scenario, if Rocks are up, Pidgeotite Gengar has a 70% chance of winning.

Summary: Cresselia can't switch in directly, even after it has Mega evolved. If Cresselia gets a free switch-in, it only has a 30% chance to use Gengar as set up bait.

Ampharosite Mew:

Technically Gyaradosite works as well, but Dragon-typing is better than Dark-typing on Mew, especially with the prevalence of U-Turn on Pokemon like Landorus-T and Victini.

Simply put, this can come in and wipe out Cresselia. It can Taunt it, burn it, and stall it out. Taunt in general from any Mold Breaker Pokemon just shuts Cresselia down.

Summary: Ampharosite Mew switches in and wins. It can do this throughout the game with access to great recovery in Roost. Of course Cresselia is unlikely to stay in against Mew, but Mew has U-Turn to keep up momentum for your team and stay one jump ahead when it comes to winning the game and eliminating the teammates Cresselia can run away to.

Red Orb Victini:

If Cresselia hasn't yet Mega evolved:

252 Atk Red Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 280-330 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now if it has (btw I was wrong earlier, this is the proper calc):

252 Atk Red Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Rocks)

Even if it is already Mega evolved it gets 2HKOd barring immense bad luck, Red Orb Victini will almost always win. Even though Moonlight recovers 2/3 health in Sun, it still takes massive damage. Also, this:

4 SpA Red Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 178-211 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (52.3% chance to 2HKO after Rocks)

So Cresselia can't even PP stall V-Create out as Blue Flare does almost as much. If it is special Victini (which is also viable btw, 150 SpA, Blue Flare, and Desolate Land is no joke js):

252 SpA Red Orb Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 211-249 (47.5 - 56%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Rocks)

It still does a ton.

Summary: Cresselia can't switch in safely, and it is forced to constantly use Moonlight, even if it gets a safe switch in. It can attempt to PP stall V-Create (recovering more via Moonlight than V-Create does) but V-Create and Blue Flare both do around half, so Victini wins if it runs both, which imo is the best set for partially this reason, partially just to bop physical walls. Blue Flare also has a 20% burn chance

Gengarite Gengar:

Now, obviously, you can't use this and Pidgeotite Gengar but either wins. This is very simple. First use Perish Song, then spam Protect and Sub until the counter is at 1, switch out and your Gengar is still alive but you've got one dead Cresselia.

Summary: Rekt

Lucarionite Rampardos:

Awesome wallbreaker, bops Cresselia even after Mega evolving:

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucarionite Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 246-290 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

bopped asf

Summary: rip Cresselia. This probably isn't the most competitively viable one, but it shows it can be overwhelmed--Rock isn't even SE on Cresselia. Admittedly, you probably will severely cripple yourself from recoil and it does have 200 base attack with a 150 BP Adaptability-boosted STAB, but Rampardos is cool, and it is the Pokemon with the highest attack that isn't a mega, uber, or banned.

Blastoisinite Hydreigon:

Hydreigon is also a really cool Pokemon, and with Mega Launcher Dark Pulse, it can beat Cresselia:

252 SpA Mega Launcher Blastoisinite Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 294-348 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Launcher Blastoisinite Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Cresselia: 198-234 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 21.1% chance to 2HKO

Minimum rolls are a guaranteed OHKO without Rocks. Plus, it can even switch in when its at +1 and win if you get a timely flinch.

Summary: Yet another thing that wins.

Charizardite X Landorus-Therian:

Gaining a cool secondary Dragon typing, Tough Claws, and its access to Outrage makes this a great wallbreaker, that also beats Cresselia after a little bit of prior damage and Rocks

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizardite X Landorus-T Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 172-204 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Adamant does a lot better:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizardite X Landorus-T Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 189-223 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Summary: After a bit of prior damage and Rocks, Jolly Charizardite X Lando-T can kill Cresselia. Adamant variants don't even need the prior damage (94.1% of the time), they just need Rocks.

Medichamite Mawile:

This can't 2HKO Cresselia, but it can after some prior damage (such as U-Turn from Lando-T or Victini or something like that)

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 154-183 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 136-162 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Sucker Punch does more if you predict it is going to attack:

252+ Atk Huge Power Medichamite Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia: 182-216 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Summary: It can greatly dent Cresselia and force it to keep recovering and stalling for a crit. Iron Head can also fish for flinches. This is probably my weakest example, but it can still do enough to Cresselia to have a chance to KO it after some burn damage such as from Entei or a Scald user.

TL; DR: While not much stuff can break through Cresselia, there are some Pokemon that can muscle past it. In my opinion, every good balance or offensive team should have at least one, if not more, of these Pokemon anyways. I can't speak for stall since I don't use that playstyle, but it has a Cress too (~~first to boost up wins y/y~~). I'm sure there are other Pokemon that can beat it, and especially once it is statused or after Rocks, many Pokemon can do a lot of damage to it. In conclusion, I believe Cresselia is an amazing Pokemon on stall that really boosts the viability of the playstyle in such a power-creeped metagame like Mix and Mega, and it really deserves its S Ranking, but it does NOT need the banhammer, as there are more than a few easy ways to beat it. I will admit most of these options are only viable on balance or offense, but every balanced or offensive team should have one of them or a similar Pokemon that can accomplish the same role as they are all great tbh lol. So yeah, if you read the whole thing kudos to you lol, there are ways to beat Cresselia.

While I will give that there are things that can muscle past it, I actually realized that a long time ago, a lot of these things are totally niche. Zardite X lando is really outshined in almost every regard by other lando sets, and it's slow already, so adamant is just bad. Mawile is basically straight up outclassed in every way except for the ability to beat cresselia, and is, therefore, not a good example, Hydreigon, while super cool and crazy powerful, is really easy to pick off, and it'd be pretty easy to predict a switch in and bop it w/ moonblast, rampardos doesn't even count, lol, so it's really just mew and victini (and Gyaradosite stuff), and gengar can revenge kill it. But other than that there is not a lot you can do to beat it.

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