ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

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Can we get Snorlax to A+? This thing is amazing right now due to it's good bulk, attacking stats, and Thick Fat allowing it to check stuff like Chandelure and Entei as it sets up some Curses, getting ready for a sweep. CurseLax isn't the only set too, as Snorlax can run a Banded set, or even Assault Vest. Problems with Snorlax are lack of recovery outside of rest, low speed, and weakness to fighting types, but the positives outweigh the negatives for Snorlax, and it's just amazing right now, so Snorlax for A+
 
Cactrune said:
Now, I hate to sound like a broken record here, but I'd like to re-submit a nomination that I've made before, which is...
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Granbull from B- to B
Reasoning: Granbull is still one of the better physical walls on stall these days, and the more I use it, the more effective it seems. Fairy-typing+Intimidate is a surefire way to make a 'mon good, and Granbull certainly delivers by checking key mons like Heracross, Honchkrow, Mienshao, Salamence, Haxorus, and even Mamoswine. It's also able to function as a cleric thanks to its access to Heal Bell, and even though it lacks reliable recovery, it can easily run a RestTalk set that still allows to blanket-check a lot of problematic stuff. Pair it with other typical stall Pokemon like Blissey and Alomomola, and Granbull does not disappoint.

P.S. I'm glad you guys like my formatting for opinions n_n
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Granbull is not too bad in UU meta. Physically defensive fairy types are great switch ins on almost any fighting type as well as some dragons. It has the ability to wall things that hit it for neutral as well which is great for a wall. Has an amazing offensive move pool backed up with a great attack stat which can prevent other mons from setting up on it. Great support in the form of Thunder wave and Heal Bell. I find the rest talk set underwhelming.

Some good replays from dark horse using granbull to wall things like mamo.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-239401122
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-241498605
 
Can I nominate Delphox for B-Rank? It's a quick Special Attacker with a fun ability in Magician so if it outspeeds it and can fuck some shit up with switcheroo if it wants to play some nice mind games, plus it has nice coverage for anything it does, but it's not the most powerful compared to some things in the tier so.
 
Nightingales said:
Can I nominate Delphox for B-Rank? It's a quick Special Attacker with a fun ability in Magician so if it outspeeds it and can fuck some shit up with switcheroo if it wants to play some nice mind games, plus it has nice coverage for anything it does, but it's not the most powerful compared to some things in the tier so.
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Why would you run Magician on Delphox when Blaze will better in 99% cases considering any Knock Off that's coming from ANY mon except Tentacruel is probably gonna kill you. I also don't see a reason to use Delphox over Chandelure, I mean I guess it's faster than Hydreigon and can catch it with Dazzling Gleam but Chandelure is much stronger and the Ghost typing plus Flash Fire is really useful. That typing allows SubCM Chandelure to set up on Blissey, allows it to revenge kill Lucario, allows it to be an effective spinblocker, and makes your opponent think twice before clicking HJK.
 
My main thoughts on Delphox is it's essentially a faster, not so strong Chandy. It's not got the best typing for the current metagame, but we can't just ignore it's got some serious power behind it even with Timid. It's like a faster Moltres without hurricane, which is why I'm nominating it at all because Moltres is also pretty good.
 
I'd like to nominate Reuniclus for A+ rank. Being able to hit hard right off the bat with its CM set is not something many other bulky set-up 'mons can make a claim about-- heck, it can even beat many of them (Cune, Cresselia, Slowking especially) one-on-one. Further, as a result of its immediate power, the threats that generally scare Reuniclus out also have a hard time switching into it because it generally has the proper coverage to cause a ton of havoc to these said threats. Put that on top of hazard and damaging status immunity (unless AV or specs, which is another discussion for later), and there's a threat that I believe is as good as the myriad A+ rank 'mons.

Also, Mega Swampert for A+ rank. This has been discussed before, but this monster has come a long fucking way that now it doesn't necessarily need rain or rain support in order to be very effective. Simply enough, not only does it hit hard right off the bat with its base 150 attack, but it boasts an extremely underrated base 70 speed that allows it to not just outspeed base ~108 scarfmons under rain, but also slower threats like machamp and florges that it can proceed to wear down heavily. Finally, it has the ability to fit in almost any playstyle, as it boasts such diverse characteristics including typing, bulk, power, and its Swift Swim ability to pull off whatever it wants to. Definitely on the level of other A+ 'mons imho.

I'd also like to nominate Cresselia for A- rank. It definitely has a lot more defensive prowess going for it compared to two of its similar counterparts, Slowking and Reuniclus, but it's just so much more susceptible to stuff like Taunt or damaging status and it's just pathetically weak without any of those boosts. I don't think it's quite on the level of the other solid-A ranks atm, but it's still a huge threat against teams lacking insanely powerful hitters or status spreaders that it can't be ignored in any given situation.
 
dingbat said:
I'd like to nominate Reuniclus for A+ rank. Being able to hit hard right off the bat with its CM set is not something many other bulky set-up 'mons can make a claim about-- heck, it can even beat many of them (Cune, Cresselia, Slowking especially) one-on-one. Further, as a result of its immediate power, the threats that generally scare Reuniclus out also have a hard time switching into it because it generally has the proper coverage to cause a ton of havoc to these said threats. Put that on top of hazard and damaging status immunity (unless AV or specs, which is another discussion for later), and there's a threat that I believe is as good as the myriad A+ rank 'mons.

Also, Mega Swampert for A+ rank. This has been discussed before, but this monster has come a long fucking way that now it doesn't necessarily need rain or rain support in order to be very effective. Simply enough, not only does it hit hard right off the bat with its base 150 attack, but it boasts an extremely underrated base 70 speed that allows it to not just outspeed base ~108 scarfmons under rain, but also slower threats like machamp and florges that it can proceed to wear down heavily. Finally, it has the ability to fit in almost any playstyle, as it boasts such diverse characteristics including typing, bulk, power, and its Swift Swim ability to pull off whatever it wants to. Definitely on the level of other A+ 'mons imho.

I'd also like to nominate Cresselia for A- rank. It definitely has a lot more defensive prowess going for it compared to two of its similar counterparts, Slowking and Reuniclus, but it's just so much more susceptible to stuff like Taunt or damaging status and it's just pathetically weak without any of those boosts. I don't think it's quite on the level of the other solid-A ranks atm, but it's still a huge threat against teams lacking insanely powerful hitters or status spreaders that it can't be ignored in any situation.
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Megapert is already A+. It rose last update.
 
BrandonBeast said:
Can we get Snorlax to A+? This thing is amazing right now due to it's good bulk, attacking stats, and Thick Fat allowing it to check stuff like Chandelure and Entei as it sets up some Curses, getting ready for a sweep. CurseLax isn't the only set too, as Snorlax can run a Banded set, or even Assault Vest. Problems with Snorlax are lack of recovery outside of rest, low speed, and weakness to fighting types, but the positives outweigh the negatives for Snorlax, and it's just amazing right now, so Snorlax for A+
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I think snorlax its pretty great too, but its hard for me to think he's A+ material. doublade, coballion, mienshao, heracross, machamp are pretty common on most teams these days. though usually if you don't have one of these pokes, curselax will probably put in mad work. it can run quite a few sets as you stated. im more so 50/50 on this and wouldn't mind if he got a+ because he has serious sweeping potential.
 
sniperaim said:
I think snorlax its pretty great too, but its hard for me to think he's A+ material. doublade, coballion, mienshao, heracross, machamp are pretty common on most teams these days. though usually if you don't have one of these pokes, curselax will probably put in mad work. it can run quite a few sets as you stated. im more so 50/50 on this and wouldn't mind if he got a+ because he has serious sweeping potential.
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But none of the Fighting-types want to switch in for fear of a Paralysis from Body Slam except for previously statused Flame/Toxic Orb Heracross, making it difficult to get these answers in. The way I see it Snorlax is the second most deserving of A+ rank from A rank, behind Reuniclus.
 
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Yeah, I nominated Snorlax for A+ on the last VR thread for some of the same reasons. It's an incredible asset to balance, acting as a wincon and a check to many threats, all while being hard to switch in to or wear down. I'm on mobile right now, so I'll elaborate when I get the chance.
 
Well glad to see that the snorlax nom is finally gaining some momentum. As mentioned beforehand by Cactrune, it acts as both a blanket check to many threats while also being able to set up and sweep when the floor is cleared. I've also tested out how it does with EQ instead of sleep talk and I have to say, I'm impressed because you can just bop cobalion, doublade, and chandy on the switch for the kill/cripple them so they can't switch in again. Three otherwise huge threats to snorlax. while not as effective, belly drum can be used as surprised set up, though admittedly slurpuff does this better. choice band can be used to strike hard at the start, and AV can be used to bolster it's already great special bulk. By no means does snorlax have just one set, and can surprise opponents that only prepare for curselax. I say Snorlax most certainly does deserve the rise. One more thing I forgot to address, so I'm just gonna be lazy and say it right here. Mienshao and heracross are both checks, but niether of them want to take a boosted return/body slam (I actually prefer return because it has a huge chance to KO mienshao at +1 and hera at +2). And if you are running curselax, if you're able to get a few defense buffs up beforehand then you'll be able to survive the attack and hit back with a killing blow. Honestly I think Lax has deserved this rise for quite some time now.
 
It's other sets are really underwhelming in this meta. CB doesn't lure in what it needs to all the time and even when you do you need to predict properly or you're screwed. AV lacks recovery and finds trouble checking Nidos multiple times like it needs to. That being said, Curse is really threatening and a set with something like a chople berry can be a more effective fighting type lure than the CB set in some instances. Body Slam is also preferable since the Para chance helps with match ups versus not only offensive teams but against stuff like reuniclus as well.
 
From looking through the VR, here are some of my thoughts on possible changes:
Ampharos stays A: Amph is a very, very good mega and is very anti-meta. For sure overlooked
Snorlax stays A: Snorlax is a great pokemon and a great check to a lot of the tier along as being a wincon. I just believe A is a perfect palcement for it. Although, if people really believe it is A+ material, Reuniclus should go up with it.
Slowking to A-: I might be wrong about this, but i feel like Slowking was like Heliolisk in which it is not as good as it use to be. It is inferior to Reuniclus and maybe even Cress, although a Fire resistance is nice.
Granbull and Tangrowth to B: Both these pokemon are far more viable than the rest of the B- rank mons. I believe these two fit perfectly up there in B(I kinda think Granbull could be B+ but that may just be me haha).
Edit: Get Machamp out of B+ and into A- it totally deserves it
 
O yea I totally agree Machamp should be in A-. I got completely ruined by it a while back it kinda opened my eyes, this guy just reliably causes havoc against any team and almost any mon thanks to its bulk and access to dynamic punch. All the ghosts hate knock off, whilst absolutely everything else is susceptible to hax. The hax argument has been explained with pidgeot when it comes to "counters" many times already and this can apply to machamp too. Heracross and other fighting types can be reliably walled, whereas machamp will always punch a hole before going down. Its an underrated(?) anti-lead which hassles defensive and balanced teams that dont instantly take it out in the same way as a Mega Blastoise. it has noticable strength against things like florges/salamence/mega aggron cores

edit: its still gunna be a rank behind heracross which i think is fair since it cant swords dance or scarf
 
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YABO hit upon why I think Snorlax should remain A. While it does have other viable sets, it's really only its Curse set that is a serious threat in this metagame, and while the threat it poses is really big, there are too many things that just beat it outright. Snorlax is a top-tier mon, and a threat most teams should account for, but I don't think it's quite as universally viable as the other 'mons in A+.

(Doublade generally beats Snorlax one on one even if it does have EQ by the way... IIRC, +1 EQ is only a 3HKO, while Doublade outspeeds and can take it out with a boosted Sacred Sword).
 
Anyway, now that I have the chance, I'll put some of my opinions about these changes here.

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Slowking to A- Support
Look, I like Slowking as much as the next guy (perhaps even a bit more), but I have to agree that this nomination is very well-deserved. I've used Slowking many, many times, and though it can be effective, it's not as good as it once was. Its typing, though very good on paper, sometimes makes it easier to break through than other CM users (more on this later), regardless of how interesting its resists are. It's got a huge vulnerability to status, especially Toxic, which can instantly kill Slowking's chances at sweeping if your cleric is dead. Reuniclus, Suicune, and maybe even Cresselia outstrip its capabilities as a CM 'mon, so I think a move down is overdue.

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Snorlax to A+ Support
I've nominated Snorlax for A+ before, and my position has not changed. Though the metagame around it might shift, Snorlax is too fat to be shifted with it, and it remains a very capable Pokemon. On more defensively inclined teams, Snorlax can sponge most special attacks, and functions as a blanket-check to threats like Mega Pidgeot, Heliolisk, Nidoqueen, and (thanks to Thick Fat) Entei. Snorlax's RestTalk set is arguably still as dangerous as ever, allowing this monster to keep itself healthy and functioning as both a sweeper and a wall. This mon's counters aren't exactly that hard to remove, either. Steel-types with Roar, Ghost-Types, and Fighting-types all check Snorlax, but (most) Fighting-types can't switch in for fear of getting hit by Body Slam, while Steel-types that rely on Roar can't beat Snorlax in a last 'mon situation. You can run a Pursuit-trapper (Krookodile is really cool) to beat Ghost-Types, and even run stuff like Chople Berry or Earthquake on Snorlax to weaken its checks. Based on the power of its Curse set alone, Snorlax deserves a bump up to A+.

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Reuniclus to A+ Support
Reuniclus is another one of my absolute favorite 'mons to use, and it's capable of setting up on a large portion of the tier thanks to its great bulk. Unlike other CM users, Reuniclus's impressive Special Attack stat and access to Focus Blast allow it to deter otherwise obvious Dark-type switch-ins. This offensive presence, when combined with Magic Guard and access to reliable recovery, makes Reuniclus a threat during many stages of a game, and I think its standing on the Viability Ranking thread should reflect this.

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<<Other cool 'mons: SupportChristo The Gr8, no, you're not the only one who thinks Granbull is B+ material. Tangrowth is also a solid B-rank mon, serving as a reliable check to stuff like Feraligatr, Mega Swampert, and Mega Sharpedo.
 
Gonna make a nomination of my own here:

Mamoswine A+>>> S

Mamoswine is downright amazing in UU. It has an incredible base 130 attack, good speed, priority, the ability to setup rocks, and beats all of the S rank mons except for feraligatr. It is one of the very few pokemon in the tier that not only apply a ton of offensive pressure to the most common pokemon in the tier, but also has very good utility.
 
LeoLancaster said:
Christo The Gr8 could you elaborate on your Machamp nomination? Specifically, what does it have over Heracross that makes it only a subrank less?
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I sort of thought it was obvious, sorry. I am not referring to the Choice Banded guts set, as Heracross is simply better. But Machamp has a niche with a killer AV set with possibly the best/most broken move in the game paired with No Guard, Dynamic Punch.
Edit: Banded No guard has a niche too.
 
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Particularly it allows it to serve as a better hydreigon/chandelier check due to the lack of fire weakness. That's of course in addition to No Guard Dynamic Punch which is great on its own
 
Actually I was planning on nominating Machamp to A- myself sooner or later, since the Assault Vest set is pretty deadly should it get a free turn. No Guard DynamicPunch means that even your best switch-ins are always in a situation where Machamp could either take it out with a coverage move or switch out into the appropriate Pokemon for free half the time. For instance, Machamp isn't like other Fighting-types where you'd have to predict Crobat switching in and going for the coverage move. You could freely click DynamicPunch and follow up with a Stone Edge should RNG be in your favor. Moreover, the only type that is immune to DynamicPunch, Ghost, is deterred from switching in by presence of Knock Off, which all the viable Ghosts in this metagame detest. Not to mention, with an Assault Vest, Machamp becomes a good tank capable of tanking some of the stronger special attackers STAB attacks, such as Dragalge's Choice Specs Draco Meteor, at least once and retaliating with a powerful DynamicPunch that no Pokemon really appreciates. So I definitely agree with A- but Machamp probably shouldn't be up for consideration of moving any higher tbh due to glaring flaws like the low Speed, and shitty priority (it provides good coverage but is weak as hell outside of super effective hits, and even with super effective hits it's underwhelming at times).
 
I can go with a Machamp rise. DynamicPunch is very powerful and always confuses the opponent, which can be very annoying at times. AV sets can also tank special hits well, and it has Knock Off for Ghosts and Psychics. Machamp is just a very good mon overrall, so Machampfor A-.EDIT Can we also have a discussion about VIVILLON? It seems like a very nice sweeper with accurate Sleep Powder and STAB Hurricane . Problems are low bulk, 4x SR weakness, and being suspectible to priority like Entei’s ExtremeSpeed, but I think it deserves a rank, maybe C/B-, or even B.
 
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I'll talk about some of the nominations worth noting

Slowking to A- Do NOT Support
an unpopular opinion but imo slowking is still extremely good and while the calm mind set is currently inferior to reuniclus or cresselia, it still has a few other niche sets, assault vest and trick room NP. assault vest is a neat option to check pidgeot for teams that need a fire check and a pidg check. the combination of checking many mons as well as survivability with regenerator makes this mon still worthy of A rank.
Snorlax to A+ Support
with the ability to check entei, pidg, nidos, etc, makes it a fantastic mon in the metagame. while checking these mons it can also curse up, and after a few curses it really only has one viable check: doublade. while most teams do pack something to deal with curselax its still a fat mon that can chew many hits as well as having decent recovery with resttalk. btw banded sets and assault vest sets are very niche and are usually done by something better.
Reuniclus to A+ Support
basically its a monster with many viable sets. read above posts if u dont get it yet lol. move reuniclus up.

other things mentioned were granbull and tangrowth which i think deserve to move up, both having incredibly good niches in the metagame. someone also nom'd mamoswine for S rank but that discussion was back a few pages if u need reasoning of why its A+. i don't have enough experience with machamp to know if its A- material so cant make a statement on that. also talk about vivillon to move from unlisted and honestly i'd go for it. being able to put to sleep something like an empoleon that takes hits as well as having accurate hurricanes(lol). i think those points alone justify it to be listed.
 
Brendannn said:
I'll talk about some of the nominations worth noting

Slowking to A- Do NOT Support
an unpopular opinion but imo slowking is still extremely good and while the calm mind set is currently inferior to reuniclus or cresselia, it still has a few other niche sets, assault vest and trick room NP. assault vest is a neat option to check pidgeot for teams that need a fire check and a pidg check. the combination of checking many mons as well as survivability with regenerator makes this mon still worthy of A rank.
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Regarding Slowking, I'd say that the fact that you went out of your way to describe its other sets as "niche" kind of indicates just how much less viable Slowking has become. The OTR set is really interesting, but often fails to sweep due to the fact that Trick Room only lasts so long, and it's a set that can be similarly executed by Reuniclus, a 'mon that has more power from the get-go. Its AV set is alright, but there are more 'mons than Slowking that act as both "a fire check and a pidg check." Rhyperior, Mega Ampharos, Snorlax, Rotom-Heat, and others can all do that, all while being arguably more splashable than Slowking. I still agree with moving it down to A-.

Also, Vivillon definitely deserves at least C or B- status on this thread. It's not really that incredible in the meta, but it can be very dangerous thanks to a strong, spammable Flying-type move with a 30% chance to confuse the opponent (sound familiar?) as well as a more accurate Sleep Powder, which allows it to set up on some of its checks if you play it right.
 
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