Ohhhh.
I guess there's no need to argue about it if it's a done deal.
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Monotype Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Anttya
- Start date
- Status
I'd like to reserve Tangrowth for Grass.
Tangrowth from B Rank - A Rank
Tangrowth is one of the only viable Physical Walls for Monotype Grass, a type with many weaknesses and not many counters for them. With an astonishing 100/125 physical defenses, it has the raw bulk to survive even STAB super-effective attacks that no other Pokemon of its breed would, such as Mega Pinsir's Return, Ice Punch from Weavile, and a Flare Blitz from Infernape. It has very low Special Defense, but it's HP is workable enough to make it an offensive Assault Vest set. it's offensives aren't bad either, with a good Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Special Attack, it can put the hurt on opponents even if uninvested. From stall to Assault Vest to Physical Wall to Trick Room to Offensive, Tangrowth is the go-to guy for when you are looking to find Pokemon that can withstand heavy physical beatings. It takes hits better than Amonguss, plus higher offenses. Sure, you might say that Ferrothorn is a better wall, but in Monotype Grass, it is used more for setting up hazards and SubSeed Stalling than trying to absorb Physical Hits. Tangrowth is also blessed with the ability Regenerator, which recovers mounds of HP if switching out, so the opponent has to deal with a ripe, healed Tangrowth if it is forced out. Tangrowth also has excellent utility options such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and two very usable abilities that make it the best physical wall in Monotype Grass. Here is the first set, the Defensive set and it can also function as a Mega Pinsir lure.
Tangrowth@Leftovers/Coba Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Attack (Optional)
-Hidden Power Ice/Ingrain/Rock Slide
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Knock Off
-Sleep Power
This set is a very good wall for Monotype Rock and has the bulk to easily sponge STAB super-effective hits, one after the other, and slowly stall your opponent out with Leech Seed. It is a no-brainer on this set because it may force your opponent out, but you can always use Synthesis if you are on a Sun-Team and that you want to heal with more HP. Although it has very shaky accuracy, Sleep Powder puts your opponent to sleep, causing them to switch usually, or if not, allowing you to seed them or pick them off with attacks. If you want to put a stop to Mega Pinsir, use a Coba Berry to sponge Return, even at +2, and put that bitch to sleep and 2HKO it with Rock Slide. HP Ice is for coverage, namely Garchomp carrying Fire Blast. Knock Off gets rid of the opponent's item. Duh. You idiot. Ingrain allows for steady health if you plan Tangrowth staying in on the long run, but it is only viable with a Specially Defensive Set.
Why A Rank? I already explained.
It is not S Rank because of it's abysmally low Special Defense. 'Nuff Said.
Eviolite Tangela could also be used, but only for physical defense.
Tangrowth is one of the only viable Physical Walls for Monotype Grass, a type with many weaknesses and not many counters for them. With an astonishing 100/125 physical defenses, it has the raw bulk to survive even STAB super-effective attacks that no other Pokemon of its breed would, such as Mega Pinsir's Return, Ice Punch from Weavile, and a Flare Blitz from Infernape. It has very low Special Defense, but it's HP is workable enough to make it an offensive Assault Vest set. it's offensives aren't bad either, with a good Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Special Attack, it can put the hurt on opponents even if uninvested. From stall to Assault Vest to Physical Wall to Trick Room to Offensive, Tangrowth is the go-to guy for when you are looking to find Pokemon that can withstand heavy physical beatings. It takes hits better than Amonguss, plus higher offenses. Sure, you might say that Ferrothorn is a better wall, but in Monotype Grass, it is used more for setting up hazards and SubSeed Stalling than trying to absorb Physical Hits. Tangrowth is also blessed with the ability Regenerator, which recovers mounds of HP if switching out, so the opponent has to deal with a ripe, healed Tangrowth if it is forced out. Tangrowth also has excellent utility options such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and two very usable abilities that make it the best physical wall in Monotype Grass. Here is the first set, the Defensive set and it can also function as a Mega Pinsir lure.
Tangrowth@Leftovers/Coba Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Attack (Optional)
-Hidden Power Ice/Ingrain/Rock Slide
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Knock Off
-Sleep Power
This set is a very good wall for Monotype Rock and has the bulk to easily sponge STAB super-effective hits, one after the other, and slowly stall your opponent out with Leech Seed. It is a no-brainer on this set because it may force your opponent out, but you can always use Synthesis if you are on a Sun-Team and that you want to heal with more HP. Although it has very shaky accuracy, Sleep Powder puts your opponent to sleep, causing them to switch usually, or if not, allowing you to seed them or pick them off with attacks. If you want to put a stop to Mega Pinsir, use a Coba Berry to sponge Return, even at +2, and put that bitch to sleep and 2HKO it with Rock Slide. HP Ice is for coverage, namely Garchomp carrying Fire Blast. Knock Off gets rid of the opponent's item. Duh. You idiot. Ingrain allows for steady health if you plan Tangrowth staying in on the long run, but it is only viable with a Specially Defensive Set.
Why A Rank? I already explained.
It is not S Rank because of it's abysmally low Special Defense. 'Nuff Said.
Eviolite Tangela could also be used, but only for physical defense.
I disagree actually, yes regenerator is nice, but Ferrothorn outclasses it typing wise, and with utility. B rank is fine for it.Tangrowth from B Rank - A Rank
Tangrowth is one of the only viable Physical Walls for Monotype Grass, a type with many weaknesses and not many counters for them. With an astonishing 100/125 physical defenses, it has the raw bulk to survive even STAB super-effective attacks that no other Pokemon of its breed would, such as Mega Pinsir's Return, Ice Punch from Weavile, and a Flare Blitz from Infernape. It has very low Special Defense, but it's HP is workable enough to make it an offensive Assault Vest set. it's offensives aren't bad either, with a good Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Special Attack, it can put the hurt on opponents even if uninvested. From stall to Assault Vest to Physical Wall to Trick Room to Offensive, Tangrowth is the go-to guy for when you are looking to find Pokemon that can withstand heavy physical beatings. It takes hits better than Amonguss, plus higher offenses. Sure, you might say that Ferrothorn is a better wall, but in Monotype Grass, it is used more for setting up hazards and SubSeed Stalling than trying to absorb Physical Hits. Tangrowth is also blessed with the ability Regenerator, which recovers mounds of HP if switching out, so the opponent has to deal with a ripe, healed Tangrowth if it is forced out. Tangrowth also has excellent utility options such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and two very usable abilities that make it the best physical wall in Monotype Grass. Here is the first set, the Defensive set and it can also function as a Mega Pinsir lure.
Tangrowth@Leftovers/Coba Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Attack (Optional)
-Hidden Power Ice/Ingrain/Rock Slide
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Knock Off
-Sleep Power
This set is a very good wall for Monotype Rock and has the bulk to easily sponge STAB super-effective hits, one after the other, and slowly stall your opponent out with Leech Seed. It is a no-brainer on this set because it may force your opponent out, but you can always use Synthesis if you are on a Sun-Team and that you want to heal with more HP. Although it has very shaky accuracy, Sleep Powder puts your opponent to sleep, causing them to switch usually, or if not, allowing you to seed them or pick them off with attacks. If you want to put a stop to Mega Pinsir, use a Coba Berry to sponge Return, even at +2, and put that bitch to sleep and 2HKO it with Rock Slide. HP Ice is for coverage, namely Garchomp carrying Fire Blast. Knock Off gets rid of the opponent's item. Duh. You idiot. Ingrain allows for steady health if you plan Tangrowth staying in on the long run, but it is only viable with a Specially Defensive Set.
Why A Rank? I already explained.
It is not S Rank because of it's abysmally low Special Defense. 'Nuff Said.
Eviolite Tangela could also be used, but only for physical defense.
Like I said, Ferrothorn and Tangrowth have two different roles. Ferrothorn can set up hazards and be offensive, and Tangrowth seeds the foe and survives super-effective attacks. Tangrowth has better stall abilities and a better stall movepool, and Utility-wise, Tangrowth has better wall-movepool than Ferrothorn. But overall, Tangrowth is more physically bulky than Ferrothorn, and possess LOTS of recovery, something Ferrothorn doesn't have outside of Rest + Leech Seed, and Tangrowth has higher offensive stats, and is better functioning (By far) for a Mono Grass Sun Team.
Other Nominee:
Volbeat from D Rank To Unlisted
Okay, let's face it, and taste reality here. Who actually uses this? Even with Prankster, it just is bad. It's stats are non-existent, and from what the person who suggested it should be in D Rank, one Taunt is enough to ruin it. Even with a Tail Glow, it isn't going to sweep. It's stats are just too low. It doesn't actually contibute much besides support, in which it can be Taunted.
Volbeat from D Rank To Unlisted
Okay, let's face it, and taste reality here. Who actually uses this? Even with Prankster, it just is bad. It's stats are non-existent, and from what the person who suggested it should be in D Rank, one Taunt is enough to ruin it. Even with a Tail Glow, it isn't going to sweep. It's stats are just too low. It doesn't actually contibute much besides support, in which it can be Taunted.
Again, gonna have to disagree again lol. Volbeat has a nice niche in Tail Glow passing, while yes it isn't anything game breaking, its still handy at times. D Rank is suitable. As fr Tangrowth, you can make the argument that Ferro has way better defensive typing, with the ability to wall steel and flying types, and even poison types, its only weaknesses are fightying (which is easy to cover thanks to mega venu) and fire. Tangrowth, I don't feel like counting, its definatey B Rank.
Tangrowth from B Rank - A Rank
Tangrowth is one of the only viable Physical Walls for Monotype Grass, a type with many weaknesses and not many counters for them. With an astonishing 100/125 physical defenses, it has the raw bulk to survive even STAB super-effective attacks that no other Pokemon of its breed would, such as Mega Pinsir's Return, Ice Punch from Weavile, and a Flare Blitz from Infernape. It has very low Special Defense, but it's HP is workable enough to make it an offensive Assault Vest set. it's offensives aren't bad either, with a good Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Special Attack, it can put the hurt on opponents even if uninvested. From stall to Assault Vest to Physical Wall to Trick Room to Offensive, Tangrowth is the go-to guy for when you are looking to find Pokemon that can withstand heavy physical beatings. It takes hits better than Amonguss, plus higher offenses. Sure, you might say that Ferrothorn is a better wall, but in Monotype Grass, it is used more for setting up hazards and SubSeed Stalling than trying to absorb Physical Hits. Tangrowth is also blessed with the ability Regenerator, which recovers mounds of HP if switching out, so the opponent has to deal with a ripe, healed Tangrowth if it is forced out. Tangrowth also has excellent utility options such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and two very usable abilities that make it the best physical wall in Monotype Grass. Here is the first set, the Defensive set and it can also function as a Mega Pinsir lure.
Tangrowth@Leftovers/Coba Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Attack (Optional)
-Hidden Power Ice/Ingrain/Rock Slide
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Knock Off
-Sleep Power
This set is a very good wall for Monotype Rock and has the bulk to easily sponge STAB super-effective hits, one after the other, and slowly stall your opponent out with Leech Seed. It is a no-brainer on this set because it may force your opponent out, but you can always use Synthesis if you are on a Sun-Team and that you want to heal with more HP. Although it has very shaky accuracy, Sleep Powder puts your opponent to sleep, causing them to switch usually, or if not, allowing you to seed them or pick them off with attacks. If you want to put a stop to Mega Pinsir, use a Coba Berry to sponge Return, even at +2, and put that bitch to sleep and 2HKO it with Rock Slide. HP Ice is for coverage, namely Garchomp carrying Fire Blast. Knock Off gets rid of the opponent's item. Duh. You idiot. Ingrain allows for steady health if you plan Tangrowth staying in on the long run, but it is only viable with a Specially Defensive Set.
Why A Rank? I already explained.
It is not S Rank because of it's abysmally low Special Defense. 'Nuff Said.
Eviolite Tangela could also be used, but only for physical defense.
This is interesting, I was about to petition for Tangrowth to move down to C rank.
Lets consider the S and A ranked Grass pokemon. In term of defensively oriented pokemon, we have Venusaur, Ferrothorn and Cradily. Which of these are you going to remove on your team to make room for Tangrowth? Assume you run all four, then you have only two slots left for offensive threats of which really isn't enough on Grass in my opinion. What I'm trying to say here is, that even though Tangrowth my have a niche, there simply isn't enough room for it to be considered when team building, not to mention that its defensive capabilities in forming a good core are not outweighing that of Ferrothorn, Venusuaur or Cradily. Here are some calcs:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 612-720 (151.4 - 178.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Basically, Tangrowth can't switch in to M-Pinsir (actually nothing on grass can). If M-Pinsir gets in a Swords Dance, it's game over.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Tangrowth: 153-181 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Coba Berry Tangrowth: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Okay, that calc seems more reasonable, but Tangrowth still can't switch in. What can Tangrowth hit back with?
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-220 (67.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-220 (67.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Tangrowth can kill it, but only with Stealth Rock up. The only way you are getting stealth rock up is if you have Ferrothorn or Cradily, both which outclass Tangrowth. I'm also not sure how Tangrowth is functioning as a lure. If I was running Bug, and I saw a Tangrowth, I wouldn't think, I'll switch in Pinsir and mega evolve. I would bring in a special mon, like volcarona, and force you out. Let's compare to something like Cradily,
0 Atk Cradily Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 232-280 (85.6 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Cradily Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 232-280 (85.6 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 255-300 (67.8 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cradily can still take the same damage (without any defensive investment) and have a chance to OHKO with rock slide. If you run curse or stockpile, we have
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 169-201 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
If I was really trying to check M-Pinsir, I could also give Cradily a Coba berry, like you propose kill it that way. Essentially, Cradily can perform the exact same role as Tangrowth, except that it is actually useful in a variety of matchups (which is why it is an A rank mon).
What about Ferrothorn?
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 132-156 (48.7 - 57.5%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
Ferrothorn can take a Frustration and hit back with Gyro ball for decent damage, or Thunder Wave it. Actually, the only nice I can think of is that Tangrowth can won't die to Close Combat, while Cradily and Ferrothorn will. As far as a sleep setter goes, Breloom's Spore is argueably a lot more effective, although it needs to get in before rocks are up (unless you run Shiftry; please don't). Actually, your whole marketing for Tangrowth to move up is because it checks M-Pinsir, by Rotom-Mow can do that too:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-C: 93-109 (38.5 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-C: 183-216 (75.9 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-C Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 218-258 (80.4 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 278-330 (102.5 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You actual set is also problematic. Why do you have Ingrain slashed in there, why that would mean it can't switch out, meaning it can't you regenerator and absolute bait for anything to switch into it? You can't run Ingrain with a "Specially Defensive set" because that would require Assault Vest. A Knock Off from Tangrowth is only slightly weaker than a knock off from Ferrothorn. Tangrowth really isn't my 'go-to-guy' for anything on Grass, just because it is outclassed in so many ways, and leaves you team open to super-effective hits without bringing much else to the table like Serperior does. Ferrothorn is never runs substitute, so I don't know where you got subseed from? No one runs sun teams on grass because they just get decimated by everything, so that niche is barely present. Mega Venusaur can also run Synthesis, Leech Seed and Sleep Powder if you wanted to go that route. Sleep powder is a pretty bad option anyway as you said, due to shaky accuracy. I don't really think you will be 'picking stuff off' with you uninvested attack either. HP Ice is doing almost nothing uninvested.
All in all, I can see no reason for Tangrowth to move up to A-rank, let alone stay at B-rank. I petition for it to move down to C-rank:
"Reserved for Pokemon that are only used to check a threat once or twice. These Pokemon often run unorthodox sets since their primary niches are outclassed by other Pokemon. Since they run unorthodox sets some Pokemon can set up on them without fear. These Pokemon need a lot of support (which may be hard to give) for them to function.These Pokemon have a hard time adapting to the metagame."
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Took the words of what I was about to post, I'm 100% for c rank
Wait.... why are you comparing Tangrowth to Ferrothorn? And WTF set are you nominating? Use the Assault Vest Tangrowth set and you will be happy. It can knock stuff off, recover with regen and giga drain, and it will still have insane physical bulk. It's no worse than Amoonguss, which is in B in Poison (and needs a grass nomination), and sure, it doesn't give it's own unique set of resistances with its secondary type, but it can easily find a spot on Grass. It also has insane specs power, nothing that any other grass type has to offer (barring maybe Celebi?). Of course it doesn't counter Pinsir. Why is that the set you are nominating? The assault vest set is completely viable and knock off is insanely good. Keep in B.
Set:
Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb (although alt was banned (idk why, thanks for nerfing dragon for no reason) so this can be changed)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Set:
Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb (although alt was banned (idk why, thanks for nerfing dragon for no reason) so this can be changed)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
You people sure are a very friendly user base.
Aggron From D Rank To Unlisted
Okay, another thing with reality. Why would you use regular Aggron at all in Monotype Rock? Now with Smooth Rock banned, Sandstorm doesn't last as long, so now you can't raise your horrible Base 60 Special Defense to decent levels very long anymore. From what I can tell, it's sets are Choice Banded Head Smash and Weakness Policy, which, with the horrible Rock/Steel typing, both sets require so much support to make it decent, and Weakness Policy only works if there is no priority, no hazards, and no Burn, all of which are too idealistic. Aggron's Speed is Base 50, so it cannot attack before being brought down to Sturdy by a Fighting or Ground attack, which priority could mash it. Aggron is just another Monotype Rock Pokemon that is brought down to its knees by Mega Sableye Will'O'Wisp, because of the lack of Special Attackers in Monotype Rock. While Mega Aggron is an awesome Mega of choice with extremely high Defense and an ability that lets it survive things like Close Combat from Mega Gallade and Flare Blitz from Mega Charizard X. It's two severe weaknesses are very common attacking types, and it's surprisingly wide special movepool but low special attack means it cannot go mixed. It is a very weak Pokemon that is showing some plummeting in standard tiers(UU to BL2) and that it doesn't even deserve D Rank.
Aggron From D Rank To Unlisted
Okay, another thing with reality. Why would you use regular Aggron at all in Monotype Rock? Now with Smooth Rock banned, Sandstorm doesn't last as long, so now you can't raise your horrible Base 60 Special Defense to decent levels very long anymore. From what I can tell, it's sets are Choice Banded Head Smash and Weakness Policy, which, with the horrible Rock/Steel typing, both sets require so much support to make it decent, and Weakness Policy only works if there is no priority, no hazards, and no Burn, all of which are too idealistic. Aggron's Speed is Base 50, so it cannot attack before being brought down to Sturdy by a Fighting or Ground attack, which priority could mash it. Aggron is just another Monotype Rock Pokemon that is brought down to its knees by Mega Sableye Will'O'Wisp, because of the lack of Special Attackers in Monotype Rock. While Mega Aggron is an awesome Mega of choice with extremely high Defense and an ability that lets it survive things like Close Combat from Mega Gallade and Flare Blitz from Mega Charizard X. It's two severe weaknesses are very common attacking types, and it's surprisingly wide special movepool but low special attack means it cannot go mixed. It is a very weak Pokemon that is showing some plummeting in standard tiers(UU to BL2) and that it doesn't even deserve D Rank.
I dont think tangrowth counts as a good monotype rock wall :^)Tangrowth from B Rank - A Rank
Tangrowth is one of the only viable Physical Walls for Monotype Grass, a type with many weaknesses and not many counters for them. With an astonishing 100/125 physical defenses, it has the raw bulk to survive even STAB super-effective attacks that no other Pokemon of its breed would, such as Mega Pinsir's Return, Ice Punch from Weavile, and a Flare Blitz from Infernape. It has very low Special Defense, but it's HP is workable enough to make it an offensive Assault Vest set. it's offensives aren't bad either, with a good Base 100 Attack and Base 110 Special Attack, it can put the hurt on opponents even if uninvested. From stall to Assault Vest to Physical Wall to Trick Room to Offensive, Tangrowth is the go-to guy for when you are looking to find Pokemon that can withstand heavy physical beatings. It takes hits better than Amonguss, plus higher offenses. Sure, you might say that Ferrothorn is a better wall, but in Monotype Grass, it is used more for setting up hazards and SubSeed Stalling than trying to absorb Physical Hits. Tangrowth is also blessed with the ability Regenerator, which recovers mounds of HP if switching out, so the opponent has to deal with a ripe, healed Tangrowth if it is forced out. Tangrowth also has excellent utility options such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and two very usable abilities that make it the best physical wall in Monotype Grass. Here is the first set, the Defensive set and it can also function as a Mega Pinsir lure.
Tangrowth@Leftovers/Coba Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Special Defense
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 0 Attack (Optional)
-Hidden Power Ice/Ingrain/Rock Slide
-Leech Seed/Synthesis
-Knock Off
-Sleep Power
This set is a very good wall for Monotype Rock and has the bulk to easily sponge STAB super-effective hits, one after the other, and slowly stall your opponent out with Leech Seed. It is a no-brainer on this set because it may force your opponent out, but you can always use Synthesis if you are on a Sun-Team and that you want to heal with more HP. Although it has very shaky accuracy, Sleep Powder puts your opponent to sleep, causing them to switch usually, or if not, allowing you to seed them or pick them off with attacks. If you want to put a stop to Mega Pinsir, use a Coba Berry to sponge Return, even at +2, and put that bitch to sleep and 2HKO it with Rock Slide. HP Ice is for coverage, namely Garchomp carrying Fire Blast. Knock Off gets rid of the opponent's item. Duh. You idiot. Ingrain allows for steady health if you plan Tangrowth staying in on the long run, but it is only viable with a Specially Defensive Set.
Why A Rank? I already explained.
It is not S Rank because of it's abysmally low Special Defense. 'Nuff Said.
Eviolite Tangela could also be used, but only for physical defense.
Those calcs on the OP are fake btw. Here are the real calcs.
252 SpA Pichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 186-222 (55.6 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(186, 188, 192, 194, 194, 198, 200, 204, 204, 206, 210, 212, 212, 216, 218, 222)
In return, Pichu gets OHKO'd by everything in the tier. And the "God Rank" Pokémon are absolute shit.
252 SpA Pichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 186-222 (55.6 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(186, 188, 192, 194, 194, 198, 200, 204, 204, 206, 210, 212, 212, 216, 218, 222)
In return, Pichu gets OHKO'd by everything in the tier. And the "God Rank" Pokémon are absolute shit.
that's the joke
Effectively they were being facetious, that rank is there for fun and doesn't really mean anything. The description (becoming chosen by Lord Mantyke) reflects this.
Also the Pichu nomination was simply an example, it wasn't in any way serious.
It's a typo and you know it. This is why I'm thinking about quitting smogon soon. The user base isn't friendly at all, no one respects my opinion and you people like to poke fun at me. I say a Pokemon should be A Rank? Nope, 3 other people say it has to be C Rank. I say Volbeat should be unlisted, of course not, because a long-forgotten mere bug Pokemon is totally worthy(according to Stunfisk The Great). Regirock should be B Rank? Of course not, Regirock isn't fast enough to do Rock Polish, and the same person likes Weakness Policy Rhyperior. No one will respect my opinion.
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Aggron is an optional steel check, and its defenses are pretty impressive. I think it should stay at D because of how it can take steel and some other hits, but its weaknesses really hold it back. So maybe drop to E, keep at D instead?
Hate to burst your bubble fren, but Mega Y's already done on Flying, but I could see a new post to Zapdos seeing as its movepool is large, or instead we could just use the old Zapdos posts. Mega Gallade might've been done as well before it got the quick banhammer, but I'm not quite sure.
Um, Aggron is a horrible Steel Check. It has miniscule Special Defense, so it is going to be OHKO'd by special attacks. And while on the matter, who would even want to hit it with a physical Steel Attack? Assault Vest Rhyperior takes Iron Head and actually can fight back with a very high Base 140 Attack. You should seriously stop thinking about how good it is on paper and actually use it to see how horrible it is.
I will overlook your excessively condescending tone if you take into consideration to mine. Volbeat doesn't have a "nice" niche, it hardly has any at all. It's a virtually useless, so it isn't "handy" at all. D Rank? You gave absolutely no explanation in depth, so that completely invalidates your disagreement. Volbeat will probably die before being passing Tail Glow, and with Prankster Subsitute, all that really means is that you can use the Volbeat as Setup Fodder. Before you degrade another of my nominees, please actually think about it from the "big picture". Volbeat is an incredibly weak, useless Pokemon with no "good" niche. If it was good in any way, it wouldn't be D Rank. I demand that it be dropped to E Rank.
You must be over-obsessing on Grass Types. While I admire your extensive research for this, remember that your calcs on Rotom are highly biased. Rarely does a PHYSICAL WALL run Max Special Attack, so that makes your point on Mega Pinsir invalid, so you can move Rotom out of the picture. Again, your condescending tone cannot be taken seriously because you need to fact check yourself before you go on an angry rant for once.
Today, my opinion was disrespected on multiple accounts, and today I learned that I have to stand for that. If silly Pokemon such as Articuno and Piloswine can go to A Rank, why can't a dedicated Physical Wall such as Tangrowth? Go ahead. Go ahead and quote me, and condescend on me once more and tell me how I'm wrong. I'm waiting. I just wanted a friendly competitive community that can help me get better and respect my opinion, not say how I'm wrong on every account.
Steel special moves? I haven't really seen a Lucario in awhile, and with Gene gone with its rare special Steel STAB, I don't see why it should drop. Tyranitar can usually take those, but I don't think Aggron deserves to drop off the deep end because of 'how horrible' it is.
Volbeat is a cool mon, Tailwind is a viable niche, and I believe encore + thunder wave is pretty useful against some team archetypes, especially because its a Bug Mono and it can't check absolutely everything.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-230468307
Voltbeat has use, this isn't just some ladder match either, this is a match my opponent and I took rather seriously being MonoPL match and everything.
Hello, I would like you to please not take this as me being condescending, but I would like to inform you that Mono-typing in Monotype is in most cases crappy. If Grass hand another Regen-mon that didn't share a type with Mega Venusaur, I would msot likely use it, but Grass doesn't. Generic Grass exists because quite literally 6 of its Pokemon have a majority of its usage. Piloswine on the other hand is incredible bulky and mitigates Ice's weakness to Fire and is quite good for that reason on Ice-monos. Furthermore, it also provides Stealth Rock. Articuno is supposed to be a good Defogger, but I am not informed enough about that, I also kinda disagree as well. Also, if you could please tone it down on the Bold; I believe that no one should feel disparaged, and if you would ever like to battle and talk about Monotype you can pm me anytime.
Also on the point of PU Pokemon being weak, Lanturn is NU and it is a great Pokemon for Mono-Water.
Thank you for reading this.
Voltbeat has use, this isn't just some ladder match either, this is a match my opponent and I took rather seriously being MonoPL match and everything.
Hello, I would like you to please not take this as me being condescending, but I would like to inform you that Mono-typing in Monotype is in most cases crappy. If Grass hand another Regen-mon that didn't share a type with Mega Venusaur, I would msot likely use it, but Grass doesn't. Generic Grass exists because quite literally 6 of its Pokemon have a majority of its usage. Piloswine on the other hand is incredible bulky and mitigates Ice's weakness to Fire and is quite good for that reason on Ice-monos. Furthermore, it also provides Stealth Rock. Articuno is supposed to be a good Defogger, but I am not informed enough about that, I also kinda disagree as well. Also, if you could please tone it down on the Bold; I believe that no one should feel disparaged, and if you would ever like to battle and talk about Monotype you can pm me anytime.
Also on the point of PU Pokemon being weak, Lanturn is NU and it is a great Pokemon for Mono-Water.
Thank you for reading this.
Bc of the recent changes, that's why I'm reserving them.
I'm gonna say this in the nicest way I possibly can, but you need to take a chill pill. It's ok for someone to disagree with you and make a counter argument. We respect your opinions, that doesn't mean we're forced to agree with them. If a few of us feel that what your posting sounds wrong, then we'll chime in and say something. And, this is a public forum, expect replies, and for stuff like that, that makes you look really immature.
You know what, you guys are right. Today is the day that I buckle down to improving my presence on Smogon University!
Ok here we go again lol.
Mega Charizard Y from A Rank -> S Rank (Flying)
With Char X now banned, Char Y gains a lot of viability since the usage cost is now lower compared to when Char X was around. It's an astounding wallbreaker, and gives weather teams a run for their money.
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash / Focus Blast / Earthquake
- Roost / Overheat
This is a really nice special wallbreaker set that can obliterate anything in sight. With the addition of Zapdos back on flying, they now have a beastly defensive core to cover for its bad SR weakness and paper thin defense.
Mega Gallade for S Rank (Psychic)
Great addition back to Psychic teams as a potent physical boosting sweeper. Though Psychic is now probably gonna broken as hell, you really can't go wrong with the new stuff you can toy around with.
Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut / Zen Headbutt
- Shadow Sneak
Pretty basic set, since I am on a bit of a time constraint I won't go full depth on these sets rn. But, if you want a nice physical boosting sweeper on your team, Gallade is your guy. Coupled with great bulk, a great speed tier, on top of an amazing balanced core in Slowbro, Mew, Meloetta and/or Hoopa U, you can't go wrong with what you can accomplish.
Zapdos for S Rank (Flying)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Heat Wave / Toxic
- Defog
- Roost
Man, those were the days. This is the OG Zapdos set, and it's still highly viable. I won't explain this too much since it's fairly straight forward as a defensive wall and bulky special attacker.
Oh yea, I got 1 last proposal.
Stunfisk for God Rank (Errything)
Feast your eyes, on its amazing looks, its fat, and it's in style. Great on OG ground teams, heck it annoyed the living hell out of everyone when I was the idiot who used, it, what makes you think you can't? :D
Pancake (Stunfisk) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Attract
- Swagger
- Foul Play
Presenting the princess of monotype. Anttya back me up on this 1 lol. Anyways, the purpose is to annoy the living hell out of everything, and you got an 80% chance of the hax being in your favor once set up. Fuck Togekiss, bc this is the new hax god. GG WP mofos. (yes, that is the exact set I ran back in my noob days)
Mega Charizard Y from A Rank -> S Rank (Flying)
With Char X now banned, Char Y gains a lot of viability since the usage cost is now lower compared to when Char X was around. It's an astounding wallbreaker, and gives weather teams a run for their money.
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash / Focus Blast / Earthquake
- Roost / Overheat
This is a really nice special wallbreaker set that can obliterate anything in sight. With the addition of Zapdos back on flying, they now have a beastly defensive core to cover for its bad SR weakness and paper thin defense.
Mega Gallade for S Rank (Psychic)
Great addition back to Psychic teams as a potent physical boosting sweeper. Though Psychic is now probably gonna broken as hell, you really can't go wrong with the new stuff you can toy around with.
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut / Zen Headbutt
- Shadow Sneak
Pretty basic set, since I am on a bit of a time constraint I won't go full depth on these sets rn. But, if you want a nice physical boosting sweeper on your team, Gallade is your guy. Coupled with great bulk, a great speed tier, on top of an amazing balanced core in Slowbro, Mew, Meloetta and/or Hoopa U, you can't go wrong with what you can accomplish.
Zapdos for S Rank (Flying)
Yay, Zapdos is back! :D Anyways, this is argubly 1 of the best defogers flying has, and it forms an amazing defensive core with the likes of Skarmory. I'm so glad this was added back to the meta. It also makes quite a great special defensive wrong, why would you not include this thing on your team?
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Heat Wave / Toxic
- Defog
- Roost
Man, those were the days. This is the OG Zapdos set, and it's still highly viable. I won't explain this too much since it's fairly straight forward as a defensive wall and bulky special attacker.
Oh yea, I got 1 last proposal.
Stunfisk for God Rank (Errything)
Feast your eyes, on its amazing looks, its fat, and it's in style. Great on OG ground teams, heck it annoyed the living hell out of everyone when I was the idiot who used, it, what makes you think you can't? :D
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Attract
- Swagger
- Foul Play
Presenting the princess of monotype. Anttya back me up on this 1 lol. Anyways, the purpose is to annoy the living hell out of everything, and you got an 80% chance of the hax being in your favor once set up. Fuck Togekiss, bc this is the new hax god. GG WP mofos. (yes, that is the exact set I ran back in my noob days)
Dragonite from A Rank > S Rank (Dragon)
The classic Dragon himself. I really don't understand why Dragonite isn't S Rank on Dragon. His ability is Multiscale which is really nice for taking a SE hit in a pinch if its at full health. He is also one of Dragons best sweepers and cleaners with the stats and movepool to back it up. With moves like Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Punch, Earthquake, and Superpower as well as reliable recover in Roost, you already know its a great mon. The most notable move it has however, is Extreme Speed. Dragonite is one of the two Dragons to get the move aside from Zygarde. With an amazing 134 base Attack and +2 Priority, it can easily clean up weakened teams late game. While Dragonite is 4x weak to Ice and Stealth Rock as well as bring plagued by 4MSS, the cons are overshadowed by the pros overall. Dragonite even has some of the best teammates to mitigate his flaws. Garchomp and Druddigon can set up Stealth Rock, Kyurem-Black easily tanks Ice moves and breaks down walls, both Latis can defog to get rid of Rocks, and Dragalge can decimate Fairy types with its powerful Sludge Wave.
Dragonite @ Lum Berry / Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch / Earthquake / Roost (only use if your other teammates have the coverage for walls) / Iron Head
- Extreme Speed / Iron Head / Iron Tail
- Dragon Claw
One of the most potent sweepers. Dragon Dance for obvious reasons. Dragon Claw is used over Outrage because you want to be able to switch moves. Extreme Speed is there for revenge killing if Dragonite isn't at +1. Coverage for Steel or Fairy or Recovery is based on preference.
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch / Earthquake / Roost (only use if your other teammates have the coverage for walls) / Iron Head
- Extreme Speed / Iron Head / Iron Tail
- Dragon Claw
One of the most potent sweepers. Dragon Dance for obvious reasons. Dragon Claw is used over Outrage because you want to be able to switch moves. Extreme Speed is there for revenge killing if Dragonite isn't at +1. Coverage for Steel or Fairy or Recovery is based on preference.
Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake / Fire Punch / Iron Head / Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch
Obvious Fnaf reference is obvious. Outrage nukes anything not Steel or Fairy. Extreme Speed revenge kills weakened threats. Earthquake and Fire Punch are for Steel types. Iron Head and Iron Tail help deal with Fairies.
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake / Fire Punch / Iron Head / Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch
Obvious Fnaf reference is obvious. Outrage nukes anything not Steel or Fairy. Extreme Speed revenge kills weakened threats. Earthquake and Fire Punch are for Steel types. Iron Head and Iron Tail help deal with Fairies.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
Taken directly from gen 4 OU...... hey at least it has the niche of being the only cleric left on Dragon.
EDIT: Dragonite can't use Heal Bell with Multiscale. RIP
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
Taken directly from gen 4 OU...... hey at least it has the niche of being the only cleric left on Dragon.
EDIT: Dragonite can't use Heal Bell with Multiscale. RIP
This is probably one of my most controversial nominations but overall, the sheer versatility it has along with its powerful wallbreaking prowess is definitely S Rank material in my eyes.
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Obviously I agree with Megallade and Zappy, but in all honesty I don't know if I'd set Charizard Y as S rank on Flying. Of course it's a better choice now than it was before, but the metagame has yet to settle down so we won't know what works best for a little while. And with that said, I think Mega Gyarados is going to be the more useful mega once things do settle down. It provides a very valuable resistance to Ice, has more defensive options to go along with the newly re-introduced Skarmory/Zapdos core, and is not weak to Stealth Rock. If anything, Mega Gyarados should be the one moving up to S rank. I would write up my own nomination for that change, but I never got around to passing the test for nominating stuff. If no one else does, I'll stop being lazy and get around to it, but that's beside the point of this post.Ok here we go again lol.
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Mega Charizard Y from A Rank -> S Rank (Flying)
With Char X now banned, Char Y gains a lot of viability since the usage cost is now lower compared to when Char X was around. It's an astounding wallbreaker, and gives weather teams a run for their money.
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash / Focus Blast / Earthquake
- Roost / Overheat
This is a really nice special wallbreaker set that can obliterate anything in sight. With the addition of Zapdos back on flying, they now have a beastly defensive core to cover for its bad SR weakness and paper thin defense.
Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Mega Gallade for S Rank (Psychic)
Great addition back to Psychic teams as a potent physical boosting sweeper. Though Psychic is now probably gonna broken as hell, you really can't go wrong with the new stuff you can toy around with.
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Knock Off / Psycho Cut / Zen Headbutt
- Shadow Sneak
Pretty basic set, since I am on a bit of a time constraint I won't go full depth on these sets rn. But, if you want a nice physical boosting sweeper on your team, Gallade is your guy. Coupled with great bulk, a great speed tier, on top of an amazing balanced core in Slowbro, Mew, Meloetta and/or Hoopa U, you can't go wrong with what you can accomplish.
Zapdos for S Rank (Flying)
Yay, Zapdos is back! :D Anyways, this is argubly 1 of the best defogers flying has, and it forms an amazing defensive core with the likes of Skarmory. I'm so glad this was added back to the meta. It also makes quite a great special defensive wrong, why would you not include this thing on your team?Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Heat Wave / Toxic
- Defog
- Roost
Man, those were the days. This is the OG Zapdos set, and it's still highly viable. I won't explain this too much since it's fairly straight forward as a defensive wall and bulky special attacker.
Oh yea, I got 1 last proposal.
Pancake (Stunfisk) (F) @ Leftovers
Stunfisk for God Rank (Errything)
Feast your eyes, on its amazing looks, its fat, and it's in style. Great on OG ground teams, heck it annoyed the living hell out of everyone when I was the idiot who used, it, what makes you think you can't? :D
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Attract
- Swagger
- Foul Play
Presenting the princess of monotype. Anttya back me up on this 1 lol. Anyways, the purpose is to annoy the living hell out of everything, and you got an 80% chance of the hax being in your favor once set up. Fuck Togekiss, bc this is the new hax god. GG WP mofos. (yes, that is the exact set I ran back in my noob days)
Basically, Mega Charizard Y is better now, but I still wouldn't raise its rank. It's a high A rank at best. Mega Gyarados is probably going to be the more valuable mega.
I'm gonna disagree on Dragonite as the S-Rank description is below:
Dragonite, while amazing and rarely ever useless, needs SR off the field and ideally no weather. With SR present, he can't really come out whenever, and due to how his ability works, Dragonite switching into something usually ends in having no multi-scale. With A-rank, however:
... This I think is more fitting for Dragonite, as it needs support (easily given) to achieve maximum potential. The first 2 sets you listed are the ones you'll run into 95% of the time (apart from novelty rain sets or something) and the third set can't be as effective as Mega-Altaria due to Dragonite's inferior defenses (not counting multi-scale) and being walled completely by fairy types.
Additionally, DDnite will almost always have DD/dragon move/espeed, which leaves only 1 coverage option for steels/fairies... EQ lets scizor / skarm / ferro handle Dragonite, while fire punch won't stop things like diancie.
tl:dr, Draggy is fine in A/A+ rank for dragon. With the right support he is a beast, but he needs that support too much to be S-rank.
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