I wouldn't mind seeing Flygon drop to A+, but how does Scrafty not sweep a significant portion of the meta? Without a dedicated check like the ones you mentioned, Scrafty can shred through a team. The problem with these mons is that they either don't have reliable recovery, they're momentum killers on balance, or they are worn down by rocks. There are very few reliable offensive checks to Scrafty in the tier right now, and certain scarfers can't even be used because they can't reliably check Scrafty. The other thing is that the scarfers that do revenge it can't reliably switch into Scrafty due to Knock Off. This makes it so that balance is forced to run a hard check, and a scarfer to beat Scrafty. You also mentioned that Scrafty needs support to break through bulky fairy types, but with a roseli berry it beats all of them on the switch bar Granbull, once lefties are gone.
On another note, I would like to nom Venomoth for S rank. It's at the point where people(including myself) are forced to run sleep talk on Mega Steelix just to beat it. Due to it's typing and access to sleep powder, offensive pressure is unfortunately not enough to stop Moth. Even with sleep talk, Mega Lix still can't reliably beat Venomoth even when assuming that you sleep talk on the first powder, or switch into a powder. It's not a reliable check because Max max Lix has a 90% chance to be 2hkoed by a plus 1 life orb bug buzz after rocks, then you have to account for the 1/3 chance in which you pull Stealth Rock with your Sleep Talk. Even Emboar with sleep talk, which would seem like a reliable check, is ohko'd by a plus one life orb sludge bomb after rocks. Besides Escavalier, two of the only mons that can reliably check/revenge Moth are scarf Delphox, and Fletchinder. Unfortunately these mons are both worn down quickly by rocks, and don't appreciate switching into a sludge bomb.
Idk, I actually kind of agree with Sweep about Scrafty, the fact is that it is incredibly weak unboosted, and while it is pretty threatening after a boost, it is still quite easy to fit something to deal with it after a boost on your team. The fact that Scrafty doesn't KO 128/0 Tangrowth with +1 LO HJK and is KOed in return by LO Leaf Storm (or Focus Blast, but I don't like missing x_x) is pretty sad. And defensive and balance teams are more than capable of fitting defensive answers to Scrafty on them, as Aroma, Granbull, Togetic, Golbat, and Gurdurr can easily fit on any team from Stall (okay not gurdurr) to Bulky Offense (and there is even more niche stuff like Poliwrath). And the solution to Scrafty's problem's isn't really slapping a resist berry on it, as without LO it loses to even more Pokemon due to its weakness at +1. Every Relevant Scarfer OHKOes Scrafty from full, with the exception of Tyrantrum which does a minimum of 86% with Super Power, and on top of that there is stuff like Fletchling or Colbur Berry Dazzling Gleam Psychics (I like Mesprit for this) that you can tech specifically to defeat Scrafty. Because as customizable as Scrafty is, its initial lack of power just makes it easy to customize a Pokemon that shouldn't counter it, in order to specifically do so. I just think that people are so focused on needing to run Fairies to beat this (which isn't actually true) and the fact that it can
sometimes beat fairies (emphasis on sometimes) that they completely over estimate how much
Agree w/ moth to S though.
I'm curious to know why Durant is still A when it has been proven to be S rank worthy. Steelix was moved up and nommed way after Durant.
atomicllamas Spirit
First off, because Mega Steelix is the best Pokemon in the tier and Durant: is not. Secondly,
tagging people in a combative way just pisses them off
Moving on, when was it proven to be an S rank mon? You sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "LALALALA NO COUNTERS LALALA" doesn't prove that Durant is an S rank Pokemon at all, especially since a lot of your argument is predicated on Durant being Choice Scarf Lum LO Band, Hone Claws Dual STAB Super Power BP Sub Crunch Thunder Fang. Don't get me wrong Durant is an excellent mon, but it is not without its flaws. The choiced sets, which are both very solid, have the flaw of having to lock into moves that are pretty terribly individually, Iron Head, its better STAB, just has so many resists, and while its coverage moves such as Crunch and Superpower provide good coverage on non-choiced sets, but they are all individually bad moves to lock into (idk if I'm getting across what I'm trying too but x_x). Hone-Claws is also a good set, but due to poor Special Bulk, it has a pretty hard time setting up, and while its deadly at +1, its not like say, Venomoth where it also is hard to revenge kill at +1, as any offensive (or balance team) without something over base 109 speed is bad and it isn't even due to the existence of Durant. On top of this, common Glue mons just tend to beat Durant, Scarf Emboar is probably the second most common glue mon (after mega Lix) and Scarf Tyrantrum is also a common glue mon on offense. I could see Durant in A+ and was thinking about nomming it for that in my last post, but its not on par with Mega Lix or Venomoth, which I think are the clear S rank right now.
like i already said, melo is dominant as hell. easiest S of my life...
Still pretty neutral about this tbh, I'm not opposed, but I lean towards keeping it A+, while, like the other noms, Meloetta is an incredibly diverse Pokemon, it both suffers from and benefits from the trend of "need something to do 900000 things for my team? I'll add Mega Lix". Its best set, at least imo, is Sub CM, but this is just kind of boned by the presence of Mega Steelix which is on so many teams, however, Specs can work to lure this (and some other things) in with Focus Blast which does help. The base 90 speed, and Psychic typing does hurt, as it is pursuit bait, even more so than Delphox, as Delphox at least outspeed (and 2hkoes) Houndoom and scares Sneasel with the prospect of Scarf Fire Blast, Meloetta does neither of these things, making it "easy" to pursuit trap (as easy as that ever is). Not necessarily opposed tho, as it is incredible, I just think some parts of the meta kinda sit poorly for it x_x.
Also as another nom I think Tyrantrum could drop to A+ (yes I'm proposing a Mega Steelix Venomoth only S rank), I can elaborate more later as to why I think this should happen, but its like 1 AM and I'm tired. So if others want to comment on this, that would be pretty cool.
sure, it faces competition with M-lix, but if you're using a rhyperior or seismitoad (two excellent mons in their own right) then it's wide open for Mega Glalie. which is good because it's a fucking monster. barely anything strongly checks it, let alone wall it...it has spikes, refrigerate explosion, ice+ground coverage and stab Ice shard.
I agree that Seismitoad buids are inherently kind of weak to Mega Glalie, due to the fact that both their SR user and their Bulky Water lose to Mega Glalie, but Seismitoad is maybe the third best Rocker in the tier? (Rhyperior can't switch in, but beats it 1v1) And Mega Glalie means you aren't using the best SR mon. But aside from the competition from Mega Steelix, it also has a wide range of viable counters on all team styles, the rise in Delphox hurts it, Durant (which I've heard was proven to be S rank) switches in on it (doesn't like taking more than one EQ though), SpD mola is now the dominant Mola and that doesn't even mind Freeze Dry too much, (tho it doesn't want to switch in). I just really think Mega Lix and Moth are so much better than everything else that it would be misleading to put them in the same rank as stuff like M Glalie. Like sure we could put M Glalie, Meloetta, Scrafty, Tyrantrum, Durant, and I'd argue Mola is better than at least 3 of those into S rank with Moth and Mega Lix, but then we have 8 Pokemon in S rank, when the reality is there is a huge gap after the top 2, and maybe one of the others is close, but they just aren't S rank.
frankly it annoys me and a few other people that 1 sentence from a tier leader can amount to a rank change. why isn't there more discussion on this?
There is no conspiracy here. Spirit and I and anyone else in the irc chat will discuss noms as they come up in the thread, and we usually come to a conclusion, based on your guys's post as well as our own thoughts (and very few nominations have unanimous support). Nothing is stopping you guys from coming on IRC and discussing them as well as I'd say 80% of the time we discuss in #rarelyused itself. Perhaps we could do a better job responding to some of the nominations in the thread, but we do at least try to give reasoning or let other people's posts speak for us if we don't. Aside from that there are 0 things stopping you from saying, "Hey, I oppose M glalie drop because xyz". Nothing on this list is permanent. Perhaps you and "a few other people" can appreciate the work we actually put into this thread behind the scenes, cause it takes a lot, and I'm pretty glad that
Spirit is willing to put so much effort into running this, as it tends to be a pretty thankless job -_-.
note: i didn't make the bold edits in my post, a smod did
Sam