CAP 21 CAP 21 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[Delta Nite]

As DLC pointed out, since we'll probably Mega Evolve as soon as we can, weakness patching abilities aren't so anti-concept because we won't carry it when we ME.

However, we'd need to be sure CAP21's Mega is worth using over its base form. We'd need to guarantee that people would rather lose the immunity to Water/Ground and the ability to hold, say, Life Orb, for the BST increase.
Think of it this way: if we make a CAP that fulfills its concept but whose ME isn't used a lot of the time, we'd still have a successful project.
However, if we make a CAP whose base form goes against the concept, we absolutely need to be sure the Mega will ALWAYS overclass other sets. That's putting a huge burden on our hands.

 

[Exclaimer]

I'm going to throw some support behind Regenerator. One of the goals of this Pokemon is to counter Talonflame and Clefable, and Regenerator absolutely helps us do that. Plus, it gives us a little more room for error and helps us with any Pokemon that doesn't OHKO us. This can help us with Water types, assuming we have enough bulk, to let us retaliate with a STAB/coverage move and then switch to a better answer.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

I'm going to throw some support behind Regenerator. One of the goals of this Pokemon is to counter Talonflame and Clefable, and Regenerator absolutely helps us do that. Plus, it gives us a little more room for error and helps us with any Pokemon that doesn't OHKO us. This can help us with Water types, assuming we have enough bulk, to let us retaliate with a STAB/coverage move and then switch to a better answer.

I'm a huge huge fan of Regenerator, but I feel like it should be more of a Mega ability rather than the base form's ability. Since Regenerator is a pretty great ability for a utility counter that's gonna be switching in and out a ton, I have a hard time seeing the Mega get more use than the base form given that the base form gets to hold an item and doesn't take up the mega slot (barring some insane Mega stats/ability of course)

 

[Deck Knight]

1. To those of you who wish for the Primary Ability to be weather-related, explain how the Pokemon benefits from the base form having the weather Ability.

2. Continue discussing what we want from the base form's Primary Ability. Should we patch a weakness, provide additional opportunities to switch in, or something entirely different?

I'll make the case for one weather ability and against another.

For Sand Stream: Of the Sand Setters, our CAP actually does offer something unique in neutrality to Grass. CAP could give Sand teams an easy answer to Mega Venusaur by nerfing all of its common moves - the only one Mega Venu carries that is remotely troublesome is Leech Seed. Venu could switch to running Earthquake I guess, but at far too heavy a cost. Additionally, teaming CAP up with Tyranitar for double sand isn't horribly redundant - CAP covers Grass, Bug, Fairy, and Fighting attacks, Tyranitar happily traps and kills Psychic threats to CAP. Add in something like Rotom-Wash / Ferrothorn (defensively) or Gyarados / Zapdos (offensively) to eat Water, Steel, and Ground (to an extent in Ferro's case) and you have yourself a pretty solid core.

Against Drought: We want CAP to be a reliable switch-in to Talonflame. While it's true CAP will still resist Flare Blitz, setting up a weather which allows Talon to nuke everything else on the team is not desirable. Heatran also benefits heavily from this and can Earth Power or Flash Cannon CAP into oblivion, at least in theory.

Non-weather abilities I think will not do CAP justice. Many of the threats with Ground coverage mentioned use special Ground coverage, and much like Tyranitar tanks unSTABbed Focus Blast, comparable bulk will allow CAP to take Earth Power or HP Ground, and even then unlike Tar's fighting weakness, using Air Balloon instead of a Mega Stone allows CAP to switch in, tank the popping attack, and then eat Earth Power after.

 

[Dratios]

If we want to try to provide additional opportunities to switch in, why not Wonder Skin Shield Dust? Avoiding Hurricane's confuse chance, Sludge Bomb's poison chance, and most importantly Scald's burn chance would make it a powerful force.

Edit: sigh. I can't remember ability names for garbage.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

If we want to try to provide additional opportunities to switch in, why not Wonder Skin? Avoiding Hurricane's confuse chance, Sludge Bomb's poison chance, and most importantly Scald's burn chance would make it a powerful force.

I think you're looking for Shield Dust tho.

 

[escarlata]

Several opinions on why SS and Drought belong more on base form:
- Ability to run weather stones allows it to be weather support in base form. Sun appreciate Flying and Bug resist, whereas Grass neutrality is pretty nice on a SS setter. This is also not anti-conceptual as they still play to the strength of their typings.
- Certainly weathers on base form means losing the ability to check water types 5 turns after mega evolving, but non sustaining abilities means also implies that. In addition in those cases case where we do not get a water weakening ability as Mega ability, then the opposing water types have an opportunity to nail CAP21 on the Mega evo, which they can't for SS and Drought. Idk if futureproofing is considered poll jumping but I think this is something to note.

Pro-con analysis of several abilities I see around

Hide

SS
+ Against special attacks, takes ~.66x from neutral, ~1.32x from SE, ~2.64x from ground
+ Only setter of SS that can isn't wesk to Grass
- Does not affect physical attacks
- Ttar gives it tough competition as SS setter unless CAP21 has similarly massive stats

Drought
+ Takes 1x from Water
+ Gives opportunity to run Solarbeam for waters, and pseudo stab Fire moves for Steels
+ Gives Flying and Bug resist for Sun teams
- Takes .75 instead of .5 from Fire moves
- Fire moves destroy rest of team if they don't resist
- General effectiveness of Sun teams is at qn, even with a desirable setter
- Does not weaken other SE other than water

Immunity granting ability:
+ Grants immunity to 1 type
- Only helps with 1 type
- No lasting effect upon Mega

Conditional stat boost:
+ Benefits carries on to Mega
- Doesn't deal with weaknesses
- Conditional

 

[ginganinja]

We want CAP21 to be threatened by Ground, Steel, and Psychic Pokemon.

I'm more partial to Water-immune Abilities and/or Levitate here

Hey mate. Do you want to explain your thought process as to how you plan for CAP21 to be threatened by Ground types if it's immune to any STAB attack they have? Are you envisioning CAP21 running Gravity on every set?

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Hey mate. Do you want to explain your thought process as to how you plan for CAP21 to be threatened by Ground types if it's immune to any STAB attack they have? Are you envisioning CAP21 running Gravity on every set?

That's a good question, but I don't believe that Levitate on the base form will stop most OU Ground-type Pokemon from threatening CAP21. Note that this is not an endorsement of Levitate, simply a defense against the argument that Levitate is anti-concept.

Right now Ground-type Pokemon resist both of our STAB moves. If we had Levitate, we would still be losing to Garchomp (it hits us neutrally while resisting our STABs) and breaking even with or slightly beating Landorus-T (it can safely set up SR/SD, hit us neutrally with a powerful coverage move, and potentially weaken us with Intimidate). Excadrill hits us super-effectively with Iron Head while we fail to hit it back at more than 0.25x damage. Hippowdon and Gliscor can PP stall CAP21, as they have reliable recovery and CAP21's STABs will either be low-PP or low-BP, although infecting Hippowdon with Poison could annoy it. Furthermore, this would only be on the base form. CAP21 will likely spend the overwhelming majority of the time in its Mega form, which very well could not have Levitate. It's entirely plausible for CAP21 to be threatened by Ground-type Pokemon even if the base form has Levitate without mandating Gravity on every set. In fact, I'd say that even if the base form had Levitate, CAP21 can still lose more often than not to 4 out of the 5 most important Ground-type Pokemon while narrowly beating or breaking even with the fifth.

 

[ginganinja]

That's a good question, but I don't believe that Levitate on the base form will stop most OU Ground-type Pokemon from threatening CAP21. Note that this is not an endorsement of Levitate, simply a defense against the argument that Levitate is anti-concept.

Right now Ground-type Pokemon resist both of our STAB moves. If we had Levitate, we would still be losing to Garchomp (it hits us neutrally while resisting our STABs) and breaking even with or slightly beating Landorus-T (it can safely set up SR/SD, hit us neutrally with a powerful coverage move, and potentially weaken us with Intimidate). Excadrill hits us super-effectively with Iron Head while we fail to hit it back at more than 0.25x damage. Hippowdon and Gliscor can PP stall CAP21, as they have reliable recovery and CAP21's STABs will either be low-PP or low-BP, although infecting Hippowdon with Poison could annoy it. Furthermore, this would only be on the base form. CAP21 will likely spend the overwhelming majority of the time in its Mega form, which very well could not have Levitate. It's entirely plausible for CAP21 to be threatened by Ground-type Pokemon even if the base form has Levitate without mandating Gravity on every set. In fact, I'd say that even if the base form had Levitate, CAP21 can still lose more often than not to 4 out of the 5 most important Ground-type Pokemon while narrowly beating or breaking even with the fifth.

Couple of things. As I recall statistics indicate that, Dragon Tail is Garchomp's most common "STAB" move outside of Earthquake,which is hardly threatening. Even if it wasn't, forcing Garchomp into an Outrage would probably equate to a win for any balance team relying on this CAP, as its ridiculously easy to abuse this, and its certainly not something I could consider as threatening. Furthermore, Levitate almost necessitates a physically inclined CAP, otherwise you simply run Hidden Power Ice and destroy it. I personally dislike "locking" CAP's into particular things early in a process, but hey, you obviously think differently.

I'll give you Excadrill, but again, either you are ridiculously slow and thus underspeed Excadrill, or you are forced into physically inclined stats. As I recall, you yourself have mentioned over IRC that you are highly favourable to this CAP gaining fire coverage (going so far as to claim that fire STAB could decide this mons viability), so perhaps you can understand why I worry about the spin off effect between Fire coverage + levitate, something thats not entirely unfounded as you are the ability leader for this part of the process.

Hippowdon is just going to get Toxic'd, and laughed at. Its not even like Toxic is /required/ as poison STAB moves generally have a decent chance at poisoning, and thus negating Hippowdon's leftovers. It wouldn't surprise me if CAP would actually outstall Hippowdon.

Gliscor does jack shit to this CAP outside of taunting it. Please don't go on record claiming that this CAP would be "threatened" by Gliscor, when you are immune to both Toxic AND Earthquake, and have the possibility of running Hidden Power (Ice), as needed.

Landorus-T doesn't run Swords Dance or Rock Polish very often, its most common set being something like EQ/U-Turn/SE/SR/Knock Off/Toxic (yes, these moves are significantly more common than Swords Dance). When I imagine this CAP being threatened by X mon, I generally imagine the scenario requiring a counter to not require some situationally useful moves in order to win, although I guess you think differently ?_?

I don't really want to go into the whole 'this CAP will guaranteed mega evolve 100% of the time" argument now, because thats going to depend on its coverage options, how good we make it, and what team its facing. It certainly wouldn't surprise me to keep this CAP in its base form especially if those top 4-5 pokemon exist on the enemy team, purely because you might as well beat them first, (since you decreased the pool of options available to your opponent) and then Mega Evolve.

 

[LightningLord2]

What if a player decides the base form is good enough and uses another Mega? If we want to guarantee that the CAP should go Mega, the only choice I can make for the base form is No Competitive Ability.

Picking Drought for the Base form only could result in the mega stone moving away for a Heat Rock so the player can run Mega Houndoom or another Fire-Type mega. Also, the Mega CAP is effectively on a timer if it relies on abusing the weather it sets up itself.

Levitate is also a bad idea if we want the Mega to run a different ability - since it's an incredibly useful ability (possibly the best it could possibly have), we'd have to use something totally broken on the Mega to compensate.

Personally, if we need something useful, Frisk would be my choice - our list of things we check includes Talonflame and Clefable, but we also are likely to run into a Ground-Type. All of these have multiple viable item choices and lets us deduce what the opponent is running.

 

[Exclaimer]

We absolutely need an ability for base form. I don't think CAP process is ready for making a Mega Lopunny kind of mega right now, and besides, we don't need to use the Mega 100% of the time.

Once more I'm going to restate my intense dislike for Levitate. That is as anti-concept as we could possibly get, because when anyone sees this typing they can immediately see that the ground weakness is a problem. Patching that up with an ability doesn't play to the strengths of this typing, it just covers its ass and expects us to Mega Evolve out of it, which isn't guaranteed because of how good this ability is in addition to having an item such as Choice Band/Specs/Life Orb/Black Sludge. Rock/Poison only has three weaknesses after this: Psychic, Steel, and Water. All of which common, but can dealt with and these types can't switch in easily aside from Steel, and Steel is only safe if we ditch all of the coverage that could hit Steel, so no Fire/Ground/Fighting coverage. Plus, Toxic is an all-around good move to throw around when it hurts its switch-ins so bad, like Manaphy, Slowbro, and Hippowdon. Lastly, the type resists Flying, Fairy, Poison, Fire, Bug, and Normal, which is quite nice and gives the team a good answer to Talonflame, Volcarona, Clefable, Volcarona, Tornadus-Therian, and other things depending on stats.

Instead of trying to just cover our ass with Levitate (I don't like water immunity much either but it's reasonable I guess, still anti-concept to me), I think trying to improve our standing against these mons with a more general ability is better, because chances are these abilities will help us against the rest of the metagame as well. Regenerator and Sand Stream sound like such better abilities for our concept, especially Sand Stream, which directly plays into one of this type's strengths; Rock's defensive buff when in Sandstorm.

 

[LightningLord2]

Is Compoundeyes a good idea? The high-power physical STABs Rock/Poison grants have low accuracy, which Compoundeyes would fix.

 

[Project_Mars]

Another strike against Levitate: If it has Levitate in its base form and Mega Evolves into something without Levitate, it wouldn't absorb Toxic Spikes unless it switched out and back in.

I think of the three water-immunity abilities, Water Absorb would benefit CAP the best, since it essentially negates Stealth Rock damage if switched in on a water attack. And giving it a Water-immunity ability isnt overpowered: Starmie, Slowbro, and Swampert have secondary Super Effective STABs, Manaphy can pack Psychic as a coverage move, and Mega Gyarados has Mold Breaker. There should still be enough incentive to want it to Mega Evolve even with a Water-immunity ability.

 

[KhosroTheGreat]

I'd just like to point out real quick that Dry Skin would reduce our ability to check Talonflame (as well as both Zard forms) and therefore is not particularly helpful.

 

[jas61292]

First off I would like to agree with ginganinja with respect to our Ground-type weakness. That weakness is a huge part of who we are, and what we want to threaten us, and eliminating it completely changes that up. Not to mention how questionable it would be with respect to the concept itself.

With that said, I really do want to try and re-emphasize what DLC asked in his opening post. We have had a lot of ability suggestions, but not really much discussion of his actual question. What exactly do we want this ability to accomplish? I have seen plenty of posts suggesting abilities that help us against Water-types, for example, but if we want to deal with water types through an ability, do we really want to do it in the base form? Or is that something that is best accomplished in the mega form, that we may be in for most of the battle.

Additionally, I would like to remind people not to assume too much with regard to abilities, with the big example here being Drought. Drought, for us, weakens water type moves. Beyond that though, I would encourage you to not assume anything else. Looking at our threats list, for example, it is likely (though of course not guaranteed without that discussion happening) that Fire-type coverage would be off the table. Maybe we will have it, but maybe we won't, so if that would be a major part of why you'd want the ability, I would suggest you look elsewhere. While this is the most obvious example, this is something to remember for any ability. If we choose an ability, we will certainly make sure we get to take advantage of it in some way, but that does not mean we will necessarily use every single possible aspect of it.

----

With all that said, I actually do like the idea of using this ability to help us threaten water types better. Getting in, or at least not being afraid of Water types via ability is something I consider far more important for the base form, which will, by definition, not have the same sheer stats to rely on as the mega evolution.

In this regard, I like Water Absorb, as it can let us come in on those water types without a lot of fear, but of course does nothing to help us against things like the Psychic moves of Starmie or Slowbro. Furthermore, when compared to the other Water immune abilities, I think Water Absorb is the best option, as healing is something I consider incredibly useful for a Pokemon that will want to be coming in on hard hits. Even if we resist them repeated Brave Birds, for instance, can easily wear us down, and it is always nice to be able to eliminate entry hazard damage. Furthermore, when compared to Dry Skin, Water Absorb does not make us more vulnerable to fire, nor is limiting of the kinds of team archetypes it can be used with. Oh, and for what its worth, I do not consider Water immune abilities to inherently be anti-concept, especially if they are only on one form, since Water is not our most defining weakness (that would be Ground), and we still will likely have to deal with that weakness in one form.

I also kinda like Drought as an ability, as it really can make us threaten water types, by pseudo-removing our weakness to water, while also being able to, at least once, pass that resistance over to the mega form. It does of course have some limiting effects on the kinds of teams that would want to use this Pokemon, but when you have such a massively team defining ability as this, I don't think that is a problem.

Sand Stream is not a bad ability here, by any means, but honestly, it is probably my least favorite, because it is most general, and does the least to specifically help us with the water types that I think we want to deal with here. The only thing that really makes me consider this as a good possibility over the other options here would be the fact that it helps us better deal with things Manaphy that have Psychic, as if we have any other ability Psychic will hit us harder than anything it could do to us in Sand. This does, of course, also make it so Slowbro and the like also have a harder time, but with the extra power of STAB, and our ability to tailor our stats however we want, I don't think that is a major issue.

----

Finally, I do again want to say that I would really like people to talk more about what they actually want out of the primary base form ability. Maybe people agree with me that dealing somewhat with water types is ideal, but maybe they do not, and I would really rather people start off by talking about what they are trying to accomplish with an ability, rather than simply talking about a specific ability and why it makes us more better. The intent is important, so don't forget that.

 

[NumberCruncher]

So here's a weird question that jas's post just reminded me we should have asked ages ago. Do we want the Mega to share an ability with the base form? This question actually fundamentally changes what sort of abilities we want to have at this stage. For example, if we want the Mega to share abilities with the base form, all of these weather changing abilities look far more appealing. One of the bigger criticisms about the weather altering abilities is that we lose the ability upon Mega evolution, but that's not necessarily true, especially given that the two weather setters that actually have Megas (Tyranitar and Abomasnow) actually keeps their weather setting in Mega form.

I have seen plenty of posts suggesting abilities that help us against Water-types, for example, but if we want to deal with water types through an ability, do we really want to do it in the base form? Or is that something that is best accomplished in the mega form, that we may be in for most of the battle.

This is another example. Most of the debate around the immunity abilities is whether having it in just the base form is pro-concept, and whether only getting it before Mega is even good enough, when we haven't actually established that we don't want the Mega to have the same ability.

Given the precedent set by Scizor, Tyranitar, Blaziken, Medicham, the Latibros, Audino, and Abomasnow, it does seem odd that nobody''s stopped to ask that question before this point, and it's clear that this question has become highly important to this discussion. Therefore, if DetroitLolcat permits it, I'd like to put this question up for debate.

 

[Minnakht]

Do we want the Mega to share an ability with the base form?

I don't! Getting rid of the base form's ability reduces the anti-concept vibes some people are getting from the suggestions of it being a Water immunity one and lets us give the Mega form something more suited to what the mega form's supposed to achieve, such as tanking special hits (with Sand Stream) or hitting harder (with, say, Sheer Force or something.) Whatever we decide the Mega form to do. It also opens up "interesting" gameplay like holding the Mega Evolution off when up against a Manaphy should the opponent be tempted to click the Water STAB again because the Mega will be hit SE by it, only to see no Mega's coming and you sitting now at +2 or with 50% more HP than you were.

That's my answer to the question. Also I'm still plugging Storm Drain as my opinion. I think it's a way to accomplish what we've decided in threats discussion.
To address other suggestions briefly, Levitate no, we're supposed to be beaten by Ground types, no avoiding EQ from them, Sand Stream/Drought would be okay on Mega form but not in base due to answer to above question.

As for what the ability's supposed to accomplish, I'd say the switch-in is important. It'd be hard to counter what we're supposed to threaten if we got chunked for a significant amount of HP just coming in. And then there's the part with forcing the threatened mon out.

I guess Water Absorb also works since it helps keep HP topped up and thus reduces chances of being taken out by some stray bit of coverage, but I have a personal preference for Storm Drain.

 

[Alfalfa]

Keep in mind, we have a mega forme to work with. We do not necessarily need both formes to hold significant leverage over Water-types through an ability; this CAP has enough going for it to split its ability distribution between formes to its team's needs.

Also, don't overhype on Sand Stream and Drought, evading burns is still considerably important for this CAP so it can reliably check Talonflame without having to worry about getting its physical attack power cut in half.

 

[dsm77773]

I'm supporting Solid Rock right now and I was about to suggest it myself, just didn't get notifications of this thread even though I was watching it.
The effects:
Solid Rock reduces super effective damage by 1/4. Thus, a x2 weakness is now a x1.5 weakness and a x4 weakness deals x3 damage to Pokemon with this ability. (Source: Bulbapedia).
The benefits:
I feel this ability could help the CAP with its plethora of weaknesses. With the right stats, CAP21 could avoid the 2HKO from certain super-effective attacks, effectively allowing it to counter more stuff.
We want this CAP threatened by Ground-types (and I don't like Levitate at all for this reason) and with a x3 weakness to their STAB moves you might survive an attack from full, but nothing else. Ground-types still screw you.
But what I think Solid Rock helps the most is in easily taking non-Ground random coverage moves such as Hidden Powers or Scald from walls such as Slowbro. They're unSTABed and thus easy to avoid the 2HKO from this way, as they only hit the CAP as hard as a STAB move.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

Hey I'd like to throw out some support for Rattled. The concept specifically states that the Pokemon is supposed to play to the Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses; Rattled is perfect for this, allowing the Pokemon to come in on U-turn and Knock Off, as well as the rare Normal-type move. This would also help the Pokemon's ability to threaten Talonflame. Usually Talonflame can U-turn out of its switch-ins, but with Rattled, it is forced to first weigh the risks of giving this Pokemon a Speed boost. The boost in Speed could also benefit the Mega forme, which imo should have a different ability than the base form, to answer NumberCruncher's question.

I also support Sand Stream and Water Absorb, but to a lesser degree. Sand Stream doesn't mitigate its weaknesses much when most Water- and Psychic moves will 2HKO you anyways. Water Absorb is alright, but I worry it contradicts the concept too much. Dry Skin and Drought are similar but worsens your matchup vs. Mega Charizard Y, and Storm Drain would limit the Pokemon's options for stats. Solid Rock was brought up, but again, it's rather anti-concept and doesn't actually do much to make up for its weaknesses, though I suppose that depends on its stats.

Also, don't overhype on Sand Stream and Drought, evading burns is still considerably important for this CAP so it can reliably check Talonflame without having to worry about getting its physical attack power cut in half.

Uh evading burns isn't really something at the top of the list of things that this Pokemon would want; I'd much rather have something that creates switch-in opportunities or plays to the advantages of the type (or both). Also don't assume that this Pokemon will be a physical attacker or even an offensive Pokemon yet, since we haven't figured out its stats.

 

[Alfalfa]

Uh evading burns isn't really something at the top of the list of things that this Pokemon would want; I'd much rather have something that creates switch-in opportunities or plays to the advantages of the type (or both). Also don't assume that this Pokemon will be a physical attacker or even an offensive Pokemon yet, since we haven't figured out its stats.

Talonflame, Volcarona, and Charizard are three of this CAP's biggest targets. Two of these three targets run Will-O-Wisp precisely for a Pokemon like this CAP, and Volcarona, while uncommon, does occasionally run it to neuter some of its checks. Being able to bypass such measures would be a big selling point for this CAP as a check to these Pokemon while being able to threaten them with a STAB alone (unlike Heatran, which does not possess the luxury of a Super-effective STAB). In addition, not expecting it to be an offensive Pokemon is ignoring some of the inevitabilities of this CAP's concept and typing, since some of its premier targets are best pressured by this CAP through offensive means, such as Volcarona, Talonflame, and Clefable.

 

[WhiteDMist]

The question I wish to open this discussion with is: "What do we want CAP21's Primary Ability to accomplish?" When answering this question, take into consideration that CAP21 will not be spending a lot of time in its base form and that many of CAP21's potential weaknesses can be addressed in later stages. For example, our Water weakness doesn't need to be addressed in this stage because it's possible to threaten Water-type Pokemon with proper stats and coverage moves, even if our Ability doesn't make up for our weakness. That doesn't mean we can't patch the weakness in this step, just that we don't have to. I'm starting this discussion open-ended for a reason: I'd like to see what you all can come up with in order to ensure our project's viability and adherence to the concept.

From the Threat Discussion and OP, we are trying to threaten Water, Fairy, Flying, Ice, and Bug-types while still maintaining our weakness to Ground, Steel, Psychic, and Water. As far as I can see, that does not necessitate a defensive ability exactly, but such abilities do help. There is no obligation to have different abilities on the base and Mega forms: once again, how equal the forms are in accomplishing the concept is a minute issue, as long as the Mega does accomplish it. But that only is if we are expecting the Mega to be so powerful that people automatically Mega Evolve first chance they get. That part was not set in stone, and I don't see it as a problem if the base form has uses that prevent someone from Mega Evolving immediately: the chance of someone simply using the base form alone is still pretty low, but it has no bearing on the concept.
2. Continue discussing what we want from the base form's Primary Ability. Should we patch a weakness, provide additional opportunities to switch in, or something entirely different?I'm pretty neutral about this, but I do think that the base form should focus more on survival and let the Mega form worry about defending itself.
Here are my thoughts on the abilities I think are quite viable options while still following the concept:

Sand Stream

I like this because it helps the CAP be self sufficient. It triggers the Special Defense boost, giving it a better chance at taking special Water and Psychic attacks, without actually removing its weaknesses at all. I disagree with the argument that the base form would be used more (not that it is a bad thing either), it has a lot of competition from Hippowdon and Tyranitar: there is no stipulation that the two forms can't have the same Ability either, so that isn't a good reason against Sand Stream. The argument that the boost won't prevent the CAP from falling to Water and Psychic attacks is true in a sense, but it helps take them better by far (we don't even know its stats, so we can't accurately speculate anything past this) without removing its weaknesses.

Drought

This is a pretty cool ability as well, weakening Water moves at the cost of weakening the match-up against Fire-types. Admittedly, it does threaten Manaphy and other Water-types without having to do anything but switch-in, so looking at it that way makes it fulfill the concept. However, I do think weakening one of our few good match-ups is not worth the cost, unless you Mega Evolve immediately into a method that removes that problem.

Water Veil

Burns are a huge nuisance to this CAP, even if it doesn't end up being physically oriented. While I'm sure that a physical Rock move will still threaten Talonflame, hurting the physical aspects of this CAP's type makes getting burnt a large cost. Since we are still wavering on the defensive side of things to maintain our "utility counter" role, something steadily chipping away at the CAP's HP hurts it heavily. It's no protection against Scald or other Water move, but no burns applies to Fire moves as well, which we do plan on switching in on often due to the typing. Only real problem with this Ability is that it's area of effect is limited to Burns, and has little/no effect on deterring the opponent from using moves that it is weak to.

Regenerator

Good general ability, and helps keep the CAP healthy while taking hits. As we don't know if it will get recovery, and the CAP lacks Leftovers if it Mega Evolves, the extra healing will definitely benefit its longevity. Only complaint might be that it does make the CAP focus a lot on the utility counter aspect, and less on the typing advantages. Might be me though, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Intimidate

As this CAP is likely not going to pivot too often, having a one-to-few-times Intimidate isn't too problematic. Noting that the Sand helps Special Defense, Intimidate provides the CAP with a more well rounded defensive option, without having to crank its defensive stats as much (leaving more room for other stats). In the end, the ability won't save you from Ground moves, and likely not against any Steel moves either (most users set up). So it doesn't really improve the match up against Pokemon that threaten us, but it benefits the whole team a lot more.

Sand Force

I actually like this ability, but I don't like the fact that it requires a teammate to set up Sand for it. As the base form, it also has weaker stats, so it can't make use of it the same way its Mega form can. Maybe save it for the next discussion?

Solid Rock/Filter

Former has better name, but w.e. It gives the base form a bit more leeway in switching in, though it won't really matter on the turn you Mega Evolve. The reduction isn't that large, but it'll weaken Water, Psychic, and Steel moves in a desperate situation (might help more in Sand as well). That said, I don't see the point, as why would you be in on a Pokemon that use those moves in the first place? Not my favorite option out of these.

Water Absorb

The only water immunity ability that has significant worth. It gives a better switch in against most Water-types, except the ones with super-effective STAB. The recovery is nice, like with Regenerator, but more restrictive and situational. No one with half a brain would be spamming Water moves if they know you have Water Absorb, but regardless it still can catch someone off guard. It's better than Storm Drain, as it's not decided that this CAP would utilize its Special Attack, and there is no benefit to having a RARE boost in Special Attack if you have no moves that can use it (or you carry a useless move on the off chance you get a boost?). The problem with Dry Skin has been stated. I am still iffy on it since it does remove a weakness, so I'm leaning towards neutral on it at best.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

Talonflame, Volcarona, and Charizard are three of this CAP's biggest targets. Two of these three targets run Will-O-Wisp precisely for a Pokemon like this CAP, and Volcarona, while uncommon, does occasionally run it to neuter some of its checks. Being able to bypass such measures would be a big selling point for this CAP as a check to these Pokemon while being able to threaten them with a STAB alone (unlike Heatran, which does not possess the luxury of a Super-effective STAB). In addition, not expecting it to be an offensive Pokemon is ignoring some of the inevitabilities of this CAP's concept and typing, since some of its premier targets are best pressured by this CAP through offensive means, such as Volcarona, Talonflame, and Clefable.

I just don't think that Water Veil offers enough utility to support CAP 21's role, especially since those Pokemon are only part of the Pokemon CAP 21 is supposed to counter. However, I do see that Rattled doesn't really help CAP 21 against the Pokemon it threatens, and I recognize that burns are a problem that should be mitigated somehow; therefore, I think Regenerator should be the primary ability. It neuters burns similarly to Water Veil, but it also has more use against the rest of the metagame. Having Regenerator would give CAP 21 some passive recovery, which is really nice since it's holding a Mega Stone and thus lacks Leftovers. I also still think that Water Absorb is a potential candidate, though, as it greatly improves CAP 21's matchup against Manaphy and Keldeo.

 

[Yomegami]

For the question of whether or not the Mega and base forms should share abilities: I don't think so. With two separate abilities, it'd let the overall Pokemon be able to handle more things. Having both forms have the same ability just seems kind of restricting on what the CAP's able to handle.

And now some thoughts on the proposed abilities. Keep in mind I still think the primary goal of this ability should be to help the CAP switch in and that train of thought greatly influenced what I think of each ability.

My opinion on Water Absorb hasn't changed much and it's still the ability I'm in most support of. While it is true that it's removing a weakness, the fact remains that we're trying to threaten Water types with a typing that's weak to Water. A water-immunity ability just seems like the best way to handle that, especially given the power of some of the Pokemon we're trying to threaten. As for why Water Absorb in particular: the health recovery will always be useful, and there's no drawbacks like with Dry Skin.

I do rather like Sand Stream, though. In exchange for still being weak to Water, the CAP gets a special defense boost that helps against all special attacks rather than attacks of a specific type. In addition, it'd also help against rain teams and Charizard Y.

Drought sounds like a worse Water Absorb to me. It may even be detrimental in some ways, as I don't think powering up Talonflame's and Charizard's Fire moves (excluding Charizard Y since it's going to have sun anyway unless the CAP gets Sand Stream) sounds like a good idea, even if we do resist them.

Intimidate was actually an ability I was considering for my initial proposal, but back then I turned it down as it seemed to help more against the stuff that should threaten us rather than the stuff that we should threaten. Looking at it now, however, it offers similar benefits to Sand Stream just on the physical side than the special side, and most Ground attacks would trash the CAP with or without Intimidate. I'd be in support of this one.

Solid Rock/Filter would help against nonSTAB coverage moves and thus make it easier to threaten Pokemon that would carry super effective coverage against it. However, I think most of the really powerful STAB attacks in OU would still hurt the CAP with or without this ability; the only difference is that it'd be crippled instead of outright killed at best. I'm sort of iffy on this one.

Regenerator would grant the CAP a way of recovering health that's more consistent than Water Absorb and provides some room for error regarding switch ins (making otherwise crippling blows a little less painful). However, I really can't see it helping more than once, and depending on the power of the initial hit not even that. Plus, there's the fact that there's a good chance it'd go away once the CAP mega evolves. I'd support this ability more if it was the Mega ability as well, though.

Water Veil would turn Will-O-Wisp into a switch-in opportunity as well as being a boon for a physically-oriented CAP. However, my problem with this one is mainly Scald. While it will no longer burn, the CAP's still weak to Water and won't like taking repeated Scalds unless it's from something like Alomomola. Besides Scald, Rotom-W can just smack the CAP with Hydro Pump if it tries switching in on a Will-O-Wisp, and I believe Earthquake is a common move on Will-O-Wisp Charizard X. It just seems like most burn users have a way of significantly hurting the CAP otherwise and that kind of hampers this ability's usefulness.

If I didn't address an ability here, I either think it's too situational or just won't help the CAP switch in regardless of other benefits.