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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)

Alright, tell me what you think of this team and how you would improve it:

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Synthesis

EDIT: I'm completely fine with scrapping members of this team, but please also tell me what I could replace it with.

Thanks!
 
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Meadle said:
EDIT: I'm completely fine with scrapping members of this team, but please also tell me what I could replace it with.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

What are you targeting with HP Ice on Serp? I would have thought you'd have had plenty of things getting in the way of random Dragons/Lando-T.

E: oh yeah and IMO Giga Drain > Synthesis if LO serp, LO cuts into the recovery but you're still doing damage and it helps a sweep. Synthesis is fine on more supportive sets.
 
Meadle said:
Alright, tell me what you think of this team and how you would improve it:

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Synthesis

EDIT: I'm completely fine with scrapping members of this team, but please also tell me what I could replace it with.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
On that team, aside from what has already been said. Replacing Hydreigon for Talonflame gives you a much better check to Tornadus/Medicham/Gallade while providing a wincon for your team if you choose to run SD. Replacing Cloyster for Scarfchomp helps you check zardx significantly better as the only mon it can set up safely on is Ferrothorn, and you can pivot straight out into Garchomp in that case expecting a flare blitz or dragon dance as well as giving your team another sorely needed revenge killer besides Talonflame as well as givinig you a really good talonflame check. Also you should run taunt or giga drain>synthesis to help you vs balanced and stall teams more on Serp, and HP Ground could be used over hp ice on Serp to Lure in Heatran for Zardx. Aside from those changes, there aren't too many changes I would make.
 
KidMagic said:
Only Giga Drain and HP Fire lol.

Gross Ebelt Mew
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Idk i think i remember it had earth power.

its up to you tho.

Edit: i saw some NP + Ebelt Mews around, thats why i mentioned it, i dont think its Gross because mew has the biggest movepool lol.
 
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KidMagic said:
By Giga Drain and HP Fire I meant that's what I'm running. Recover + NP + Hidden Power Fire + Giga Drain. More offensive variant.
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For a set like that I'd definitely elect Leftovers. Expert Belt's boost won't be as consistent because of Grass's lackluster SE coverage, and since you want Celebi to hang onto those boosts as long as possible, survivability would probably get it further.
 
KidMagic said:
On MegaZardX run 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe with a Jolly Nature and replace Earthquake with Dragon Dance.

On Ferrothorn run 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD with an Impish Nature. Replace Leech Seed with Iron Head and Protect with Thunder Wave

On Serperior run Hidden Power Rock instead of Hidden Power Ice, with Coba Berry as the item. Replace Synthesis with Giga Drain for a better matchup against balance.
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I appreciate your help, but I really don't like these changes you advised. I've tried them and it just doesn't work well: Charizard needs the coverage, the Coba Berry hasn't even been used *once* due to the minority of flying types in OU, and Ferrothorn is so much better with the IVs I had used on it, and Leech Seed / Leftovers / Protect work too well to give up. The changes that I have kept, but still have made almost no difference is replacing Synthesis with Giga Drain (which I still may undo), and changing the Hidden Power typing which does provide more coverage. Again, thanks for the reply though :)

And in response to the other suggestions, I've changed my team up quite a bit in according to some of the suggestions which I felt were worth heeding. So here's a more updated version of my team:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Starmie doesn't seem very viable in battle often getting OHKO'd, and barely serving it's purpose as a hazard cleaner so that my Charizard can enter.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Giga Drain

Any more help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Meadle said:
I appreciate your help, but I really don't like these changes you advised. I've tried them and it just doesn't work well: Charizard needs the coverage, the Coba Berry hasn't even been used *once* due to the minority of flying types in OU, and Ferrothorn is so much better with the IVs I had used on it, and Leech Seed / Leftovers / Protect work too well to give up. The changes I have kept but still have made almost no difference is replacing Synthesis with Giga Drain (which I still may undo), and changing the Hidden Power typing which does provide more coverage. Again, thanks for the reply though :)
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If you wanted a quirky "negotiation" kind of build, you could find room for Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, Glare on Serp, and then SD on Charizard - SD Adamant Char X with speed control wouldn't really miss the coverage you'd lose on EQ, and Cloyster will love facing a paralysed team (you might even be able to go Hydro Pump > Ice Shard if it's successful.) [EDIT: I didn't even notice Kings Rock. MAN that would be so haxxy. DO IT] I feel you're probably playing this team really passively, though - the high amount of recovery moves gives it away (I've done the same myself). If you want to try to force your opponent into KO range slowly, then Will-O-Wisp on a bulky Char is your friend. At the moment Char's got kind of a jack-of-all-trades set, and if it doesn't specialise you might as well be using another mega.

Seriously though what were you hitting with HP Ice that's so important?? Lately I've much preferred a HP Ground + Glare combo with some Heatran checks. Giga Drain *is* nice but you gain so much more for your team by running Glare. (Or Knock Off.) If you use Serp to punch holes or to clean late game you don't really have to worry too much about its health.

E: oh yeah and despite there not being a lot of Flying STAB mons around, the ones that ARE (Tornadus-T, and especially Talonflame) will destroy Serp without the appropriate lure/coverage move. Talonflame in particular shits three ways to sunday on your team, even if Ferrothorn does whittle it down :0 (less so on your newer team tho)
 
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D_what said:
If you wanted a quirky "negotiation" kind of build, you could find room for Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, Glare on Serp, and then SD on Charizard - SD Adamant Char X with speed control wouldn't really miss the coverage you'd lose on EQ, and Cloyster will love facing a paralysed team (you might even be able to go Hydro Pump > Ice Shard if it's successful.) [EDIT: I didn't even notice Kings Rock. MAN that would be so haxxy. DO IT] I feel you're probably playing this team really passively, though - the high amount of recovery moves gives it away (I've done the same myself). If you want to try to force your opponent into KO range slowly, then Will-O-Wisp on a bulky Char is your friend. At the moment Char's got kind of a jack-of-all-trades set, and if it doesn't specialise you might as well be using another mega.

Seriously though what were you hitting with HP Ice that's so important?? Lately I've much preferred a HP Ground + Glare combo with some Heatran checks. Giga Drain *is* nice but you gain so much more for your team by running Glare. (Or Knock Off.) If you use Serp to punch holes or to clean late game you don't really have to worry too much about its health.

E: oh yeah and despite there not being a lot of Flying STAB mons around, the ones that ARE (Tornadus-T, and especially Talonflame) will destroy Serp without the appropriate lure/coverage move. Talonflame in particular shits three ways to sunday on your team, even if Ferrothorn does whittle it down :0 (less so on your newer team tho)
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Why use Glare on a Serperior which will outspeed almost every Pokemon when it has 252 EVs in Speed? I mean, with Leaf Storm + Contrary the paralyze won't have much time to effect the game anyway. I understand why you'd opt for Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, but I just love that recovery combi too much, I've swept with Ferrothorn on multiple occasions by using this. Aside, I do agree that my Charizard is kind of a mess, since I've never used one and was hoping he'd be a good staller with Roost and (now) Will-O-Wisp; I'd still like some more help with that please. And if you haven't noticed, I scrapped Cloyster from my team :/ Again, I need help for a more reliable rapid spinner, seeing as how unreliable Starmie has been for me.
 
Meadle said:
Why use Glare on a Serperior which will outspeed almost every Pokemon when it has 252 EVs in Speed? I mean, with Leaf Storm + Contrary the paralyze won't have much time to effect the game anyway. I understand why you'd opt for Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, but I just love that recovery combi too much, I've swept with Ferrothorn on multiple occasions by using this. Aside, I do agree that my Charizard is kind of a mess, since I've never used one and was hoping he'd be a good staller with Roost and (now) Will-O-Wisp; I'd still like some more help with that please. And if you haven't noticed, I scrapped Cloyster from my team :/ Again, I need help for a more reliable rapid spinner, seeing as how unreliable Starmie has been for me.
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I'm not following the conversation, but Glare is nice to hit Torn-T on the switch, because when it's paralyzed Serp outspeeds it and 2hkos it after rocks at +2. It also can paralyze tflame, which is helpful for your team (but not necessarily serp, cuz gale wings is still a thing).
 
Meadle said:
I appreciate your help, but I really don't like these changes you advised. I've tried them and it just doesn't work well: Charizard needs the coverage, the Coba Berry hasn't even been used *once* due to the minority of flying types in OU, and Ferrothorn is so much better with the IVs I had used on it, and Leech Seed / Leftovers / Protect work too well to give up. The changes that I have kept, but still have made almost no difference is replacing Synthesis with Giga Drain (which I still may undo), and changing the Hidden Power typing which does provide more coverage. Again, thanks for the reply though :)

And in response to the other suggestions, I've changed my team up quite a bit in according to some of the suggestions which I felt were worth heeding. So here's a more updated version of my team:
Click to expand...

If you want to keep the coverage on Charizard, then replace Roost with Dragon Dance - it really does need a way to boost it's speed if you're not willing to take the bulky Will-o-Wisp route, and it can be such a ridiculous threat at +1; often people don't prepare for the 3 attacks set, and rely on Heatran to deal with it.

Defensive starmie might be better for your team, as it's a much more reliable hazard remover, though it can be set up bait. Try using it with Scald/Recover/Spin/Psyshock or Thunder Wave.

With two 4x weaknesses (until you mega evolve Charizard) the first thing an opponent will do is try to get rocks up. I think passing rocks to Garchomp and putting T-Wave on Ferro would definitely help; you really want to be able to thunder-wave Tornadus, which can be a threat to your team.
 
yurt. I posted before you'd edited your post to show the updated team so excuse the Cloyster references (although seriously 2x paralysis when one of them is Glare + Cloyster + Kings Rock is pretty fun, if unreliable without the appropriate build). Aragorn has it on Paralysis, it's almost entirely to take out Torn-T (who is otherwise a total counter) but even then Glare is a great support move. You can hit a lot of switches with it early-game if you don't want to waste Leaf Storm PP.

I'm gonna guess Starmie has been unreliable because it's been dying really quickly? Rapid spin is gonna kill your momentum most times you use it, so finding the right time to use it - i.e. opportunistically, when forcing switches on things you *know* aren't gonna want to stay in, even if you do Rapid Spin - is key. That's kind of an issue with any spinner that is more offensively inclined, really. But that's clearly not a problem for Starmie or nobody would use it, so... I'm going to further guess and say it's how you play it that counts! Offensive Starmie does best with the right kind of builds. If you want something more reliable, but also more passive, there are other options tentacruel bulky starmie like Defog mons. Latios is offensive but finds a lot of opportunities to Defog or threaten a DM, Latias being even more reliable. Otherwise you could tweak your team (and the way you play) to fit offensive Pokemon better - do you find yourself straddling the line between "balanced" and "offensive" playstyles?

If balanced, you could consider some defensive Char X or Talonflame sets, and maybe try something with a Phazing move to abuse SR and switches caused by Ferro's Leech Seed, which you've said you like. Bulky Garchomp w/ Dragon Tail, maybe, or Hippowdon + Roar. If offensive, focus on some heavy hitters and at least two set up mons (with less of a focus on "sweeping" with something like Ferro) and hazard control from the likes of Latios might be an idea.
 
D_what said:
yurt. I posted before you'd edited your post to show the updated team so excuse the Cloyster references (although seriously 2x paralysis when one of them is Glare + Cloyster + Kings Rock is pretty fun, if unreliable without the appropriate build). Aragorn has it on Paralysis, it's almost entirely to take out Torn-T (who is otherwise a total counter) but even then Glare is a great support move. You can hit a lot of switches with it early-game if you don't want to waste Leaf Storm PP.

I'm gonna guess Starmie has been unreliable because it's been dying really quickly? Rapid spin is gonna kill your momentum most times you use it, so finding the right time to use it - i.e. opportunistically, when forcing switches on things you *know* aren't gonna want to stay in, even if you do Rapid Spin - is key. That's kind of an issue with any spinner that is more offensively inclined, really. But that's clearly not a problem for Starmie or nobody would use it, so... I'm going to further guess and say it's how you play it that counts! Offensive Starmie does best with the right kind of builds. If you want something more reliable, but also more passive, there are other options tentacruel bulky starmie like Defog mons. Latios is offensive but finds a lot of opportunities to Defog or threaten a DM, Latias being even more reliable. Otherwise you could tweak your team (and the way you play) to fit offensive Pokemon better - do you find yourself straddling the line between "balanced" and "offensive" playstyles?

If balanced, you could consider some defensive Char X or Talonflame sets, and maybe try something with a Phazing move to abuse SR and switches caused by Ferro's Leech Seed, which you've said you like. Bulky Garchomp w/ Dragon Tail, maybe, or Hippowdon + Roar. If offensive, focus on some heavy hitters and at least two set up mons (with less of a focus on "sweeping" with something like Ferro) and hazard control from the likes of Latios might be an idea.
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Alright, I've got a better team now (I hope), tell me if it can be improved further, although I tried to incorporate the ideas that were given to me and replace them Mons who weren't really performing too great for me:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 96 HP / 220 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz / Earthquake (not sure which I prefer)

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Thunder Wave

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Glare
- Dragon Pulse

And just to note, I'm struggling with getting a DD off for Charizard, but even without using it he still manages to OHKO about two Pokemon in a match. :P
 
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Meadle said:
Alright, I've got a better team now (I hope), tell me if it can be improved further, although I tried to incorporate the ideas that were given to me and replace them Mons who weren't really performing too great for me
Click to expand...

Vastly improved :D Only thing to do now is lots of testing. Something to look out for is your speed control - now you've got two pretty fast Pokemon, two priority users, one DDer and two ways of spreading Paralysis. That... might actually end up being somewhat redundant, so maybe later you might find you could shave some speed EVs/go Adamant > Jolly/replace Glare/TWave/run SD. Mess around with it and see how it goes, maybe post in the RMT forum eventually :)

I'd have gone with Flare Blitz initially, but actually EQ's coverage on Heatran is pretty valuable at the moment, and between that and luring it with Serp's HP Ground you should handle it pretty well. If you spam Roost/DD/Dclaw early game nobody's really gonna expect it either.
 
So, i finally decided to build a team to stick with.

What would be some good partners for a BeeZone core?(M-Beedrill+Magnezone)

I know about Rotom-W but i dont really want to use it because i alredy have a water type. Maybe TankChomp to check Talonflame?

Edit: Yay 100th post, this will propably be seen at the RMT (rater geting rated)
 
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D_what said:
Vastly improved :D Only thing to do now is lots of testing. Something to look out for is your speed control - now you've got two pretty fast Pokemon, two priority users, one DDer and two ways of spreading Paralysis. That... might actually end up being somewhat redundant, so maybe later you might find you could shave some speed EVs/go Adamant > Jolly/replace Glare/TWave/run SD. Mess around with it and see how it goes, maybe post in the RMT forum eventually :)

I'd have gone with Flare Blitz initially, but actually EQ's coverage on Heatran is pretty valuable at the moment, and between that and luring it with Serp's HP Ground you should handle it pretty well. If you spam Roost/DD/Dclaw early game nobody's really gonna expect it either.
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Brilliant, so do you think it may be worth switching Talonflame with Togekiss, or is the speed more necessary than the defense? And could anyone tell me if a bulky Will-O-Wisp Charizard would be better than an offensive DD Charizard? Thanks!
 
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I'm pretty new to the Smogon metagames, so forgive me if this has been answered or explained before.

but I've noticed that some mons and their respective megas reside in different tiers, which makes sense.

then I notice that there are quite a few like Manectric and Sableye, Ampharos, and others base forms are only allowed in the tier where their respective mega resides.

So my question is what keeps those select few pokemon's non-mega forms from being able to participate in lower tiers? such as being able to use just normal Manectric in RU/NU?
 
teamjohto said:
I'm pretty new to the Smogon metagames, so forgive me if this has been answered or explained before.

but I've noticed that some mons and their respective megas reside in different tiers, which makes sense.

then I notice that there are quite a few like Manectric and Sableye, Ampharos, and others base forms are only allowed in the tier where their respective mega resides.

So my question is what keeps those select few pokemon's non-mega forms from being able to participate in lower tiers? such as being able to use just normal Manectric in RU/NU?
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Back when tiering began, Megas were treated as forms of the non-megas, not their own mons. Thus, Megas were not tiered separately for any mons. The separation of Megas and Non-Megas occurred because we wanted to do minimalist bans for mons with broken mega forms, which led to banning the stones from tiers instead of the whole Pokemon. Years later (are we on years now?) the general attitude towards Megas has shifted to most people treating them as their own mons, but to try and change tiering now to reflect this would cause huge shifts in almost every tier, so we're waiting for the next generation to come out before we try and change tiering to reflect the more contemporary attitude towards Megas. I don't know if "next generation" means Gen 7 or if we're just waiting for Pokemon Z to come out.
 
KidMagic said:
Can anyone provide a Celebi spread designated for more offensive teams?

Also who lures Ferro and Sciz better? HP Fire Celebi or KyuB?
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A spread that's become recently popular is Modest 144 HP/252 SpA/112 Spe.

Celebi performs better against Ferrothorn. Both 2HKO with HP Fire (assuming spreads tailored to using HP Fire; Celebi would be using the spread above), but Ferro basically can't touch it, while Kyube takes a fair bit from Gyro. Against Scizor, Kyube OHKOes while Celebi doesn't, and if Scizor is carrying Bug Bite, it wins with that+BP.

Waluigi The Anime said:
How do pokemon rise in tiers? If a UU pokemon is used a lot in OU, will it rise? Or if it is used a lot in UU it will rise? Is it a combination of the two?
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A mon rises based on usage in the tiers above it. The mark is 3.41%, the odds of encountering that mon at least once in twenty games.

EDIT: Retroactively ninja'd. I didn't know a mon could jump tiers so quickly.
 
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jordanthejq12 said:
A mon rises based on usage in the tier immediately above it. The mark is 3.41%, the odds of encountering that mon at least once in twenty games, and a mon can only rise once per three-month cycle. That is, even if a mon is NU and is seeing heavy UU usage, it has to first rise to RU and then meet the 3.41% mark in UU the next cycle.
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It doesn't work like that. If a lower Pokémon sees enough usage in a tier above it, it will rise, no matter if it was two or three tiers below. It has already happened with the release of ORAS when the likes of Altaria and Beedrill skyrocketed from NU to UU(Altaria rose again to OU later), and it looks like it's going to happen once again in a few days with Gothitelle, which is currently NU(Shadow Tag ban in UU and this stuff) but seems to have enough usage to rise in OU.
 
Talpr0ne said:
It doesn't work like that. If a lower Pokémon sees enough usage in a tier above it, it will rise, no matter if it was two or three tiers below. It has already happened with the release of ORAS when the likes of Altaria and Beedrill skyrocketed from NU to UU(Altaria rose again to OU later), and it looks like it's going to happen once again in a few days with Gothitelle, which is currently NU(Shadow Tag ban in UU and this stuff) but seems to have enough usage to rise in OU.
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Really? I thought that was what normally happens after a new game is released, when the tiers tend to be shuffled anyway.
 
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