Clorophyll + Flare Blitz Solrock
Honorable mention: Mesprit + Download and Judgment
Honorable mention: Mesprit + Download and Judgment
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Project OU Theorymon
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I'm pretty sure that Mesprit is in the HM list (just like in your own hide tag lol) and that Azelf is in the slate instead.
Anyway, next slate should be coming up soon, so stay tuned!
oops. was thinking of mold breaker+fairy typing. my bad! can't wait to see what's on the next list! darn you game freak, for making all the pixies look so similar!
Thank you everyone for voting! For the next slate, since today is Halloween, the council decided we'll be doing a Halloween slate full of dark and spooky nominees (special thanks to Magma for the idea). Before we get to our grim and ghoulish nominees, let's talk about the winners of the last slate. Once again, our newcomer won the votes by a landslide. So, it's my honor to present you our newest Theorymon winner:
+ Seed Flare
The votes went as follow:
Scepitle + Seed Flare: 39
Azelf + Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker: 14 (joins the list of honorable mentions!)
Seismitoad + Drizzle: 3
Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz: 2
We also have one honorable mention that was loved by many, but was always short by a few votes to make it to the metagame until now:
And now, without further ado, here is the Halloween slate:
+ Flash Fire and Mystical Fire (Credit to Magma)
+ Normal / Dark-typing (Credit to YouAreOutOfMy5)
+ Volt Absorb (Credit to InfernapeTropius11)
+ Rattled and Moonblast (Credit to Magma)
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!! Happy Halloween everyone!
The votes went as follow:
Scepitle + Seed Flare: 39
Azelf + Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker: 14 (joins the list of honorable mentions!)
Seismitoad + Drizzle: 3
Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz: 2
We also have one honorable mention that was loved by many, but was always short by a few votes to make it to the metagame until now:
Let's all give a warm welcome (or a cold one 'cause it has Thick Fat so it doesn't matter) to our favorite goat!
+ Thick Fat
And now, without further ado, here is the Halloween slate:
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!! Happy Halloween everyone!
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Thank you everyone for voting! For the next slate, since today is Halloween, the council decided we'll be doing a Halloween slate full of dark and spooky nominees (special thanks to Magma for the idea). Before we get to our grim and ghoulish nominees, let's talk about the winners of the last slate. Once again, our newcomer won the votes by a landslide. So, it's my honor to present you our newest Theorymon winner:
+ Seed Flare
The votes went as follow:
Scepitle + Seed Flare: 39
Azelf + Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker: 14 (joins the list of honorable mentions!)
Seismitoad + Drizzle: 3
Solrock + Chlorophyll and Flare Blitz: 2
We also have one honorable mention that was loved by many, but was always short by a few votes to make it to the metagame until now:
Let's all give a warm welcome (or a cold one 'cause it has Thick Fat so it doesn't matter) to our favorite goat!
+ Thick Fat
And now, without further ado, here is the Halloween slate:
+ Flash Fire and Mystical Fire (Credit to Magma)
+ Normal / Dark-typing (Credit to YouAreOutOfMy5)
+ Volt Absorb (Credit to InfernapeTropius11)
+ Rattled and Moonblast (Credit to Magma)
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!! Happy Halloween everyone!
Since we did decide to go full Halloween, should make each Halloween in that post link to nightmare before Christmas song (This is Halloween!). :D
Anyway, for ghouls and spooks, we have the demon dog, a creepy jellyfish, a dog that wants to be demonic, and a return of an old favorite submission (Jelli is also technically an old one, but never won). Who will survive the round? Will it be a Mega who wishes to become better? Is it a Jelly fish who wishes to be electrically charged? Is it a Dog who just want to Crunch? Or maybe that Pumpkin who eats the flames of hate? My choice will be up in the air of course but who cares? Spooky Halloween fun :D
Flash Fire Gourgeist + Mystical Fire: I submitted Flash Fire Chesnaught for this slate, but this is a much better flavor fit, so big props for that. I think the present metagame would really love a Flash Fire Grass-type, and I'm glad the slate is getting one. I don't feel the need to talk this one up hugely, since anyone can scroll through the Viability Rankings and figure out that it answers a lot of stuff.
Normal/Dark Stoutland: Scrappy sets already hit Ghost-types with STAB, so I'll take it as an asset for Sand teams (Intimidate won't be viable without reliable recovery, and definitely not with a double Fighting weakness). It's flavorful, but Sand doesn't need the help. It's also not very spooky.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: It's not bad at all, but it's facing serious competition from Gourgeist in the realm of "Ghost-type with an immunity to its secondary typing" department, and in my IMO Gourgeist looks more useful, since boltbeam tankers aren't THAT hard to come by.
Rattled Mega Houndoom + Moonblast: I'm gonna need it explained to me what this one is supposed to do. Rattled boosts its speed yeah (though it's not exactly bulky so IDK how well this would actually perform against offense), but what's Moonblast for in particular? I'm not really feeling it, it's too disorganized. At least it's spooky.
Overall a pretty nice slate.
Normal/Dark Stoutland: Scrappy sets already hit Ghost-types with STAB, so I'll take it as an asset for Sand teams (Intimidate won't be viable without reliable recovery, and definitely not with a double Fighting weakness). It's flavorful, but Sand doesn't need the help. It's also not very spooky.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: It's not bad at all, but it's facing serious competition from Gourgeist in the realm of "Ghost-type with an immunity to its secondary typing" department, and in my IMO Gourgeist looks more useful, since boltbeam tankers aren't THAT hard to come by.
Rattled Mega Houndoom + Moonblast: I'm gonna need it explained to me what this one is supposed to do. Rattled boosts its speed yeah (though it's not exactly bulky so IDK how well this would actually perform against offense), but what's Moonblast for in particular? I'm not really feeling it, it's too disorganized. At least it's spooky.
Overall a pretty nice slate.
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Magma
Guest
Sure. Moonblast is here for coverage. After a Nasty Plot, Moonblast OHKOs Keldeo, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Mega Altaria, Mega Gyarados, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, and offensive forms of Tyranitar. Unfortunately for Moon-Doom, most of these threats tend to be Scarfed, so Rattled was added as a semi-reliable way to boost speed without wasting a turn. A speed boost isn't absolutely necessary... but with all of the Mega Sableyes, Bisharps, and Knock Offs going around, Mega Houndoom shouldn't have trouble catching one either. (A speed boost also helps against naturally fast checks like Mega Lopunny and Mega Aerodactyl.)
And I might as well explain Gourgeist real quick too, since I'm here. I actually submitted Flash Fire + Head Smash Gourgeist to the council, but I think Head Smash was deemed too easy of a buff. The plan with HS was to give Gourgeist a way to threaten the Fire-types that it can now wall. But in the end, it looks like the council decided on annoying Fire-types to death with Mystical Fire instead of blasting them with the pure power of Head Smash. A Flash Fire Gourgeist set consisting of: { Toxic | Leech Seed | Synthesis | Mystical Fire } looks like a pain to deal with (just watch out for Defiant users.)
Flash Fire Gourgeist: Mystical Fire gives Gourgeist leeway in determining its stat spread, as it can put the majority of its EVs in HP and DEF to stop Excadrill, while also scouting special switch-ins with Mystical Fire to debuff them. Sadly it won't help very much against Starmie, since Gourgeist needs to be able to switch into Starmie to block its spins, but Offensive Ice Beam just does too much damage for Gourgeist to play mind games using Mystical Fire and Synthesis. It annoys Calm Minders by neutralizing the SpA raise until the player finds it appropriate to switch into someone else, but most of its increased viability will come from the Fire immunity. Gourgeist is unique in that it can use each of its four different forms to sit in whichever Speed tier it wants, but I assume it will need all the bulk it can get.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: I don't see how adding Dark type helps Stoutland. Dark is a great defensive typing to resist Ghost, Dark, and Psychic, but most Psychic and Ghost types carry Focus Blast, which just knock the Dog out immediately, and it's simply too weak to afford to switch into Knock Off and go at it itemless. It can't afford to pair with Tyranitar, as two X4 weakness to Fighting moves is asking a lot to cover up, teamwise, so it will be tethered to Hippodown. The only benefit I could see is that it becomes a fast Pursuit user in Sand, and it can better secure KOs on sturdier Psychic types like Mega Metagross and Jirachi, but that Fighting weakness will harm it more than help it.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: Jellicent would join Lanturn in having immunities to both Electric and Water, but unless you want it to absorb Scalds, the obvious choice would be Volt Absorb. Unlike Gourgeist, Jellicent would be the quintessential Starmie switch in, being 3HKO'd with Psyshock, resisting Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, and immune to Thunderbolt. Since it is usually invested in DEF, it is a check against Voltturn teams, as it resists U-turn and would completely stop Volt Switch. Both Ghost suggestions are great, to the point where between both of them, we're going to need far better Rapid Spin users to keep the offensive playstyles that make use of Rapid Spin to survive.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: Rattled would be a great ability for it, as it resists Ghost and Dark attacks, Knock off does not gain the item boost, and U-Turns hit it neutrally (not that it would want to switch into STAB U-turns, but it would set up neat mindgames with something like Landorus-T, where the opposing player thinks Houndoom would switch, fearing Earthquake, Houndoom can use Will-o-Wisp, take middling damage from U-Turn, and then put the opposing player in a quandary (or it can simply set up Nasty Plot and get +2 SpA and +1 Speed. Your move, opposing player). Moonblast is great in that it turns Houndoom into a Dark-type counter, as Dark-type Pokemon can't even use Sucker Punch as that would activate the Rattled boost and ruin revenge killers like Choice Scarf Latios and Mega Aerodactyl from being able to come in. That gives Mega Houndoom multiple niches that it didn't have before.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: I don't see how adding Dark type helps Stoutland. Dark is a great defensive typing to resist Ghost, Dark, and Psychic, but most Psychic and Ghost types carry Focus Blast, which just knock the Dog out immediately, and it's simply too weak to afford to switch into Knock Off and go at it itemless. It can't afford to pair with Tyranitar, as two X4 weakness to Fighting moves is asking a lot to cover up, teamwise, so it will be tethered to Hippodown. The only benefit I could see is that it becomes a fast Pursuit user in Sand, and it can better secure KOs on sturdier Psychic types like Mega Metagross and Jirachi, but that Fighting weakness will harm it more than help it.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: Jellicent would join Lanturn in having immunities to both Electric and Water, but unless you want it to absorb Scalds, the obvious choice would be Volt Absorb. Unlike Gourgeist, Jellicent would be the quintessential Starmie switch in, being 3HKO'd with Psyshock, resisting Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, and immune to Thunderbolt. Since it is usually invested in DEF, it is a check against Voltturn teams, as it resists U-turn and would completely stop Volt Switch. Both Ghost suggestions are great, to the point where between both of them, we're going to need far better Rapid Spin users to keep the offensive playstyles that make use of Rapid Spin to survive.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: Rattled would be a great ability for it, as it resists Ghost and Dark attacks, Knock off does not gain the item boost, and U-Turns hit it neutrally (not that it would want to switch into STAB U-turns, but it would set up neat mindgames with something like Landorus-T, where the opposing player thinks Houndoom would switch, fearing Earthquake, Houndoom can use Will-o-Wisp, take middling damage from U-Turn, and then put the opposing player in a quandary (or it can simply set up Nasty Plot and get +2 SpA and +1 Speed. Your move, opposing player). Moonblast is great in that it turns Houndoom into a Dark-type counter, as Dark-type Pokemon can't even use Sucker Punch as that would activate the Rattled boost and ruin revenge killers like Choice Scarf Latios and Mega Aerodactyl from being able to come in. That gives Mega Houndoom multiple niches that it didn't have before.
I personally thing Mystical Fire is a sweet boon for Gourgeist with or without Flash Fire as it allows it to take on the special attackers which give it trouble with much more ease. It turns it from a niche stall/TR 'mon to a pretty splashable utility 'mon with Wisp+Synthesis+Mystical Fire+Foul Play, and adding Flash Fire on top of that easily turns both XL and S into two of the most useful supporters in the metagame.
Flash Fire Gourgeist + Mystical Fire: very nice because we are replacing a middling ability (Frisk is useful sometimes but it doesn't add much to Gourgeist's viability) and Mystical Fire is a weaker version of Flamethrower which makes some control on the special side of the spectrum (just be wary of Bisharp and Milotic) whereas Will o' Wisp helps the physical side. Gourgeist can even choose between its four different forms to sit in whichever Speed tier it wants, but I assume everybody will pick Gourgeist-XL due to its HP stat although 100 base Atk is wasted. Sadly enough, even though you can check more pokemons, you are not able to deal with them yet (Fire types and Magic Bouncers) and the ghost pumpkin is stopped by Taunt. Nice buffs but not enough in my opinion because Gourgeist is too passive.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: No. Dark-type makes this dog more weak to Fightning and stacks another Fightning weakness if paired with Tyranitar if you want to use Sand Rush (its best ability) because Scrappy makes the Dark-type redundant.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: Jellicent normally resist Water (obviously Scald exists but it's bearable) but Volt Absord gets rid of one of its weakness, so it can afford to run less SpD investment due to many Electric-type attacks being special. Nice, maybe another buff would make this ghost more solid.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: I'm very happy about this one because Mega Houndoom can't really use Solar Power in regular OU while in "the other OU" Sun is a thing thanks to Drought Torterra allowing Houndoom to free a moveslot (Nasty Plot) ===> replacing a borderline useless ability with another more usable is already a nice thing. Moonblast is a great lure move (alongside Sludge Bomb in the slot of Will o' Wisp) towards i.e. Tyranitar, Keldeo, Terrakion and so on...and the SpA drop is always nice to have. These buffs give Mega Houndoom a new life in this meta fixing its offensive prowess.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: No. Dark-type makes this dog more weak to Fightning and stacks another Fightning weakness if paired with Tyranitar if you want to use Sand Rush (its best ability) because Scrappy makes the Dark-type redundant.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: Jellicent normally resist Water (obviously Scald exists but it's bearable) but Volt Absord gets rid of one of its weakness, so it can afford to run less SpD investment due to many Electric-type attacks being special. Nice, maybe another buff would make this ghost more solid.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: I'm very happy about this one because Mega Houndoom can't really use Solar Power in regular OU while in "the other OU" Sun is a thing thanks to Drought Torterra allowing Houndoom to free a moveslot (Nasty Plot) ===> replacing a borderline useless ability with another more usable is already a nice thing. Moonblast is a great lure move (alongside Sludge Bomb in the slot of Will o' Wisp) towards i.e. Tyranitar, Keldeo, Terrakion and so on...and the SpA drop is always nice to have. These buffs give Mega Houndoom a new life in this meta fixing its offensive prowess.
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Flash Fire Gourgeist + Mystical Fire: I remember Flash Fire being a recommendation for Gourgeist back in XY, but Mystical Fire is new. Not sure how much it adds in practice with its abysmal 58 SpA stat and no STAB. While it is less thematic, Snarl would be a better choice because it means you can hit Heatran to lower its SpA (or normal Houndoom if you encounter that), and it did have access to Confide if it really wants, although I wouldn't recommend it. It doesn't help the most against other Grass types either, as Ammongus has Foul Play and Venusaur has Thick Fat and Sludge Bomb will do its job. These things help, but not enough to make a huge impact imo.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: I would like to hear the rationale of the person who submitted this idea, as I can't see the benefits outside of Sucker Punch resistance and STAB Crunch. I suppose you could do Intimidate to prompt switches and then use STAB Pursuit, which is kind of neat I suppose. But Normal/Fairy would be better giving you Sucker Punch resistance still as well as neutral to Mach Punch, albeit weak to Bullet Punch, but also STAB on Play Rough.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: I could've sworn this was also a submission in a prior thread... somebody back me up here or set me straight. I mean, I think we all know what this is supposed to do, and it becomes a hard counter to M-Manectric, I just don't find it terribly inspired or enough of a change really.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: It didn't hit me at first initially, but these changes of the slate have the largest benefits to an otherwise mediocre mon. Rattled is a great ability for Houndoom's typing thanks to its resistances, and it doesn't terribly miss Solar Power thanks to already having Nasty Plot and no good sun setters to pair with. While 115 Spe is already very good, netting a speed boost gets it past M-Lopunny and it can't be revenged by scarf Keldeo, Garchomp, Terrakion or Latios. Moonblast makes it the ultimate counter to M-Sableye, even though it could get by with +2 Fire Blast already, but it also helps with Tyranitar. This probably gets my vote.
Normal + Dark Stoutland: I would like to hear the rationale of the person who submitted this idea, as I can't see the benefits outside of Sucker Punch resistance and STAB Crunch. I suppose you could do Intimidate to prompt switches and then use STAB Pursuit, which is kind of neat I suppose. But Normal/Fairy would be better giving you Sucker Punch resistance still as well as neutral to Mach Punch, albeit weak to Bullet Punch, but also STAB on Play Rough.
Volt Absorb Jellicent: I could've sworn this was also a submission in a prior thread... somebody back me up here or set me straight. I mean, I think we all know what this is supposed to do, and it becomes a hard counter to M-Manectric, I just don't find it terribly inspired or enough of a change really.
Rattled + Moonblast Mega Houndoom: It didn't hit me at first initially, but these changes of the slate have the largest benefits to an otherwise mediocre mon. Rattled is a great ability for Houndoom's typing thanks to its resistances, and it doesn't terribly miss Solar Power thanks to already having Nasty Plot and no good sun setters to pair with. While 115 Spe is already very good, netting a speed boost gets it past M-Lopunny and it can't be revenged by scarf Keldeo, Garchomp, Terrakion or Latios. Moonblast makes it the ultimate counter to M-Sableye, even though it could get by with +2 Fire Blast already, but it also helps with Tyranitar. This probably gets my vote.
It was Jaroda (on the Jellicent). Was submission but no win then. No memory issue there craze
Since I came up with Jellicent here's my submission post for it
In particular, it beats most of the common hazard removers, such as Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Zapdos, Tentacruel, Starmie, Excadrill, and Latias, when paired with Heal Bell support. I think this would give it a great niche on balanced teams as well as hazard stack, keeping up hazards and stop momentum from the Volt Switch users on VoltTurn (which stall/semi-stall could appreciate).
Sample Core:
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Flamethrower
Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Taunt
nape would be better if we gave it prankster c'mon people
This actually looks like a pretty solid core, especially if it gets combined with hazard support and maybe a wallbreaker or 2. Anyway, Jellicent was the starting point of the core, handling Electric types, most hazard removers, and stuff like Heatran/Mega Diancie/Torn-T. Next I added Mega Altaria to give it the Heal Bell support it desperately desires, handle Latios, most Grass-types, and some Dark-types. Finally, I realized that Weavile, SD/KOff Mega Scizor, and Bisharp threatened the core so bulky Nape handles them nicely. It's also Infernape so that's a bonus lol.
Some threats to the core include Mega Venusaur, Mega Gardevoir, and Gengar, so those would have to be built around. Scarf Hoopa-U seems like an excellent teammate, handling all three with it's STABs + Gunk Shot. SpD Skarm also functions well alongside the core, defeating MGarde/MVenu and setting Spikes for great passive damage, as this core easily demolishes almost every hazard remover in OU lol. Gothitelle may be a problem, as it can trap and eliminate Infernape, however MAlt/Jelli don't really care being a bulky Mega and a Ghost-type (so untrappable) respectively.
Jellicent + Volt Absorb
Jellicent is only really used in OU right now as a pretty niche mon that happens to hard counter Keldeo. I think Volt Absorb gives it an excellent niche as a switch in to many top threats. Not only does it retain the ability to counter Keldeo, it gains the ability to hard counter Mega Manectric, switch in on anything but Specs Shadow Ball from Raikou, and even then it can still switch in on this as long as there aren't hazards (beats SubCM and AV), hardwalls Magnezone/Magneton, Rotom-W, Rotom-H, Thundurus-I, Thundurus-T, Zapdos, Jolteon (again, Specs Shadow Ball is iffy if hazards are up, but it's comfortably walled otherwise, and who's gonna run Specs in this meta heh), Galvantula, and Lanturn--so basically every even somewhat viable Electric-type barring Mega Ampharos lol. Perhaps the most important thing this boost would give is the ability to beat every Starmie--even those that run TBolt, making it a great spinblocker, as it also beats the bulky spinner Excadrill set. Sample set:
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
This allows it to take on everything I mentioned above. The defense EVs are to not get 2HKOd by offensive Starmie's Psyshock after Rocks/Lefties, with the rest put into SpD to better wall the aforementioned mons (for example, it isn't 2HKOd by +2 Thundy-T HP Flying). I won't post calcs for this one, because if I haven't mentioned it, the mon's main coverage does like 12-25% lmao. HP Ice, Flash Cannon, Hydro Pump, Heat Wave, etc. does absolutely nothing. Give it a Heal Beller and something that can tank KOff/Grass attacks and you're golden. I think this would give it a viable niche as a way to halt momentum from VoltTurn and turn it into a better spinblocker for bulkier teams. Stuff I haven't mentioned yet that it also checks/beats include Mega Diancie, Heatran, Hippowdon, Skarmory, Slowbro, and Tornadus-T, so it's not like it's unviable against the rest of OU.
Jellicent is only really used in OU right now as a pretty niche mon that happens to hard counter Keldeo. I think Volt Absorb gives it an excellent niche as a switch in to many top threats. Not only does it retain the ability to counter Keldeo, it gains the ability to hard counter Mega Manectric, switch in on anything but Specs Shadow Ball from Raikou, and even then it can still switch in on this as long as there aren't hazards (beats SubCM and AV), hardwalls Magnezone/Magneton, Rotom-W, Rotom-H, Thundurus-I, Thundurus-T, Zapdos, Jolteon (again, Specs Shadow Ball is iffy if hazards are up, but it's comfortably walled otherwise, and who's gonna run Specs in this meta heh), Galvantula, and Lanturn--so basically every even somewhat viable Electric-type barring Mega Ampharos lol. Perhaps the most important thing this boost would give is the ability to beat every Starmie--even those that run TBolt, making it a great spinblocker, as it also beats the bulky spinner Excadrill set. Sample set:
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
This allows it to take on everything I mentioned above. The defense EVs are to not get 2HKOd by offensive Starmie's Psyshock after Rocks/Lefties, with the rest put into SpD to better wall the aforementioned mons (for example, it isn't 2HKOd by +2 Thundy-T HP Flying). I won't post calcs for this one, because if I haven't mentioned it, the mon's main coverage does like 12-25% lmao. HP Ice, Flash Cannon, Hydro Pump, Heat Wave, etc. does absolutely nothing. Give it a Heal Beller and something that can tank KOff/Grass attacks and you're golden. I think this would give it a viable niche as a way to halt momentum from VoltTurn and turn it into a better spinblocker for bulkier teams. Stuff I haven't mentioned yet that it also checks/beats include Mega Diancie, Heatran, Hippowdon, Skarmory, Slowbro, and Tornadus-T, so it's not like it's unviable against the rest of OU.
In particular, it beats most of the common hazard removers, such as Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Zapdos, Tentacruel, Starmie, Excadrill, and Latias, when paired with Heal Bell support. I think this would give it a great niche on balanced teams as well as hazard stack, keeping up hazards and stop momentum from the Volt Switch users on VoltTurn (which stall/semi-stall could appreciate).
Sample Core:
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Flamethrower
Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Taunt
This actually looks like a pretty solid core, especially if it gets combined with hazard support and maybe a wallbreaker or 2. Anyway, Jellicent was the starting point of the core, handling Electric types, most hazard removers, and stuff like Heatran/Mega Diancie/Torn-T. Next I added Mega Altaria to give it the Heal Bell support it desperately desires, handle Latios, most Grass-types, and some Dark-types. Finally, I realized that Weavile, SD/KOff Mega Scizor, and Bisharp threatened the core so bulky Nape handles them nicely. It's also Infernape so that's a bonus lol.
Some threats to the core include Mega Venusaur, Mega Gardevoir, and Gengar, so those would have to be built around. Scarf Hoopa-U seems like an excellent teammate, handling all three with it's STABs + Gunk Shot. SpD Skarm also functions well alongside the core, defeating MGarde/MVenu and setting Spikes for great passive damage, as this core easily demolishes almost every hazard remover in OU lol. Gothitelle may be a problem, as it can trap and eliminate Infernape, however MAlt/Jelli don't really care being a bulky Mega and a Ghost-type (so untrappable) respectively.
No it was me, assuming you were talking about alexwolf time
Iirc Defog Hydreigon won that round or sth
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I created the Stoutland submission so I'll post my original ideas introducing it:
I would not think to pair up Stoutland and Tyranitar as they share too many weaknesses and traits. However, unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon is the perfect partner with no weaknesses shared. Also unlike Tyranitar, Stoutland would have no weakness to several types of common priority such as Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, bar Mach Punch.
Another calc to show off Stoutland's ridiculous power with Choice Band:
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 234-276 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
No other Dark Pokémon has the ability to be this fast and this powerful without a set-up move or BP. All it needs is sand.
Offensively, this type combo is really strong. Normal/Dark STAB goes unresisted, besides very few type combinations such as Rock/Dark, Steel/Dark, Rock/Fighting, Steel/Fighting. However, this can be patched up with Stotland's fighting coverage move: Superpower.
Let's take a look at Stoutland's most used set in UU:
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Fire Fang
- Pursuit/ Superpower/ Wild Charge
Its two best coverage moves will shine as new STAB moves. With Stoutland's new typing, it can be compared to Scarfed Tyranitar, another strong and fast pursuit trapper:
252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Not only is Stoutland stronger than Tyranitar due to the ability to run an adamant nature but he also tops off at at 518 speed with Sand Rush! (One point away from beating Scarfed Keldeo unfortunately)
Let's take a look at Stoutland's most used set in UU:
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Fire Fang
- Pursuit/ Superpower/ Wild Charge
Its two best coverage moves will shine as new STAB moves. With Stoutland's new typing, it can be compared to Scarfed Tyranitar, another strong and fast pursuit trapper:
252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Not only is Stoutland stronger than Tyranitar due to the ability to run an adamant nature but he also tops off at at 518 speed with Sand Rush! (One point away from beating Scarfed Keldeo unfortunately)
I would not think to pair up Stoutland and Tyranitar as they share too many weaknesses and traits. However, unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon is the perfect partner with no weaknesses shared. Also unlike Tyranitar, Stoutland would have no weakness to several types of common priority such as Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, bar Mach Punch.
Another calc to show off Stoutland's ridiculous power with Choice Band:
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 234-276 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
No other Dark Pokémon has the ability to be this fast and this powerful without a set-up move or BP. All it needs is sand.
I was just referring to how it was a submission then at the time, not who it was from (am talking bout first thread during Gen 6). Defog Hydreigon did win that one all the way back, enjoyed that submission and poor jelli didn't have a chance then. :(
Gourgeist: Pretty interesting honestly. Props for this submission, I like the idea of a mon that can cripple on the special attacking side. That combined with will-o-wisp could mean with correct prediction and playstyle gourgeist can be a really tricky wall. Might get the vote here.And now, without further ado, here is the Halloween slate:
+ Flash Fire and Mystical Fire (Credit to Magma)
+ Normal / Dark-typing (Credit to YouAreOutOfMy5)
+ Volt Absorb (Credit to InfernapeTropius11)
+ Rattled and Moonblast (Credit to Magma)
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!! Happy Halloween everyone!
Stoutland: Pretty cool, idk why knock off or sucker punch weren't suggested when they could've been added additionally which would've made this really formidable but crunch and pursuit stab are pretty neat. It wasn't really surviving fighting type attacks anyway so I think it's an overall boost defense wise.
Jellicent: Better than the 60% burn idea but I'm overall indifferent I guess it's just obviously an overall upgrade being immune to a super effective attack type. I dunno how much of an upgrade, probably a good amount, but idk if it's enough for it to come back into the meta.
M-Houndoom: Why isn't the ability being given to standard Houndoom? No seriously it'd be like 10x better on normal Houndoom because A. You have to mega evolve and then catch one of those attack types which your opponent won't use on you so you'd have to mega then switch out and then switch back in which is terrible for Houndoom because of rocks and just general frailness. B. You could solve the problem that Houndoom has 95 speed first turn. C. MHoundoom can keep Solar Power thus having both a speed and power boost. Having the ability on MHoundoom is just dumb am I missing something?
And then we go onto Moonblast which is good coverage I guess but I'd rather have seen it get like Energy Ball or Grass Knot which covers more stuff I'd think. Just going down the tier list of what Moonblast would cover well we have MSableye which Houndoom never worried about anyway, MAlt, Garchomp, Hoopa, Keldeo, Lopunny, MGyara, Kyu-B, MMedi, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Terrakion, Hydreigon, MSharp, and Kingdra. With Energy Ball or Grass Knot he'd cover Manaphy, Azumarill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, MGyara, Slowbro, Tyranitar, Rotom-W, Diggersby, Kabutops, Feraligatr, Suicune, Terrakion, Gastrodon, MSwamp, Quagsire, Omastar, and MSharp.
Overall this idea is ok, giving a speed boost to Houndoom off a resisted hit is a pretty good choice but it should be off the regular form and the coverage move could be thought out more.
Actually I took a look at that and for whatever reason the calc isn't adding the damage from sand but regardless if the Latios stays in it will die from LO recoil or sand if it tries to Defog, but more realistically it would have taken a turn of sand damage already, so it's effectively guaranteed to be dead.
Houndoom benefits more from Flash Fire/Rattled than it does Rattled/Solar Power. Flash Fire makes it a very safe switch into Heatran and M-Sableye. Solar Power is a wasted ability without a sun setter, and it has Nasty Plot to boost its power already so it isn't really needed.
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Stoutland's been pretty ignored for the most part but I think it's fantastic. Normal / Dark STABs don't really share resists (Bisharp, Tyranitar, Klefki, Terrakion, and Cobalion are all I'm thinking of), which means that Stoutland has really strong neutral coverage and makes for a difficult mon to switch into, never mind a potential Superpower on the switch for those. On top of that, it fits into Sand builds that don't want to run Tyranitar, as it can Pursuit trap mons for Keldeo in it's stead, allowing Keldeo to break through Stoutland's c/cs in turn. Obviously this is a defensive buff as well, mono-normal is worthless so having a few resists is obviously going to be worth it, even if you do have the additional Fighting weakness to stomach. Additionally, it now fits onto Darkspam teams if you happen to be running a Sand setter with that build, so that's pretty sweet as well.
Gourgeist is nice but doesn't solve a lot of the issues it suffers from. It can switch into Heatran, Entei, Zard Y, and potentially Mega Camerupt, but can't really do anything to them apart from Leech Seed them to death. The rest of the Fire types in the tier just don't care about Gourgeist at all, being able to switch in and set up on them, and most of the users of Fire coverage aren't something that Gourgeist wants to switch into or simply don't care. Mystical Fire doesn't seem like a great option on a set if I'm entirely honest. You have a weak, unSTABed move coming from Gourgeist's lower SpAtk, so it loses a lot of it's ability to threaten Water and Ground types. Will-o-wisp already punishes things like Ferrothorn and Venusaur pretty hard, so Mystical Fire is really only effective if you manage to get the Flash Fire boost. It makes it a little more difficult for special attackers to deal with it, but it doesn't solve a huge issue that Gourgeist always suffered from - passiveness. Head Smash would have been cool, since it would have made Gourgeist a lot more proactive.
Jellicent looks useful in that you're able to add electric types to the things you can check, which is nice. It also has a better matchup against Kyurem-B lacking Dragon STAB, as it only has to fear Earth Power, which doesn't threaten Jellicent much, and of course you now wall Starmie to hell and back. The loss of Water Absorb honestly isn't that big of a deal, it still stops and doesn't stop almost all the same things as it used to. SubCM Keldeo is actually able to do something now, so that could be problematic, but ultimately Volt Absorb is a buff.
I'm honestly not too certain how Rattled Doom would actually work in a fight simply because of how frail it is. It's really not the kind of mon you just switch into attacks, even if they are Knock Offs, due to how fast it gets worn down just from Stealth Rock alone, not to mention that you have to have already Megaed in order to switch in and take the hit to get the Speed boost (no one's staying in and hitting you with Knock Off twice unless they know they can kill you). There's also not a lot of weak U-Turns flying around right now to take advantage of, either (I guess ScarfRachi counts?), so ultimately there's not a ton of opportunities to take advantage of Rattled. The good news is that Moonblast is great (Magma's post summed up the targets nicely) and that Rattled, despite being pretty situational, still manages to be better than Solar Power, so despite how much shit talking I gave the ability it's still a nice buff.
THERE YOU GO RECREANT I SAID SOMETHING NICE ABOUT HOUNDOOM ARE YOU HAPPY NOW
Gourgeist is nice but doesn't solve a lot of the issues it suffers from. It can switch into Heatran, Entei, Zard Y, and potentially Mega Camerupt, but can't really do anything to them apart from Leech Seed them to death. The rest of the Fire types in the tier just don't care about Gourgeist at all, being able to switch in and set up on them, and most of the users of Fire coverage aren't something that Gourgeist wants to switch into or simply don't care. Mystical Fire doesn't seem like a great option on a set if I'm entirely honest. You have a weak, unSTABed move coming from Gourgeist's lower SpAtk, so it loses a lot of it's ability to threaten Water and Ground types. Will-o-wisp already punishes things like Ferrothorn and Venusaur pretty hard, so Mystical Fire is really only effective if you manage to get the Flash Fire boost. It makes it a little more difficult for special attackers to deal with it, but it doesn't solve a huge issue that Gourgeist always suffered from - passiveness. Head Smash would have been cool, since it would have made Gourgeist a lot more proactive.
Jellicent looks useful in that you're able to add electric types to the things you can check, which is nice.
I'm honestly not too certain how Rattled Doom would actually work in a fight simply because of how frail it is. It's really not the kind of mon you just switch into attacks, even if they are Knock Offs, due to how fast it gets worn down just from Stealth Rock alone, not to mention that you have to have already Megaed in order to switch in and take the hit to get the Speed boost (no one's staying in and hitting you with Knock Off twice unless they know they can kill you). There's also not a lot of weak U-Turns flying around right now to take advantage of, either (I guess ScarfRachi counts?), so ultimately there's not a ton of opportunities to take advantage of Rattled. The good news is that Moonblast is great (Magma's post summed up the targets nicely) and that Rattled, despite being pretty situational, still manages to be better than Solar Power, so despite how much shit talking I gave the ability it's still a nice buff.
THERE YOU GO RECREANT I SAID SOMETHING NICE ABOUT HOUNDOOM ARE YOU HAPPY NOW
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I'll put my thoughts on the slate up later on, and I'm glad to see loads of discussion; just wanted to pop in and say that Kyube's ability would ignore Volt Absorb, and would still threaten to tear it in half.
It still doesn't solve the switch problem which is the main problem this ability holds. Also if we take into context what theorymons we've created, there is a reliable drought setter now in Torterra so Solar Power does have a place there. Having Rattled on Houndoom would be better like 80% of the time, it could actually switch in for Rattled off the bat, it'd solve its speed issue, and it'd retain Solar Power boost. Flash Fire only gives power to its Fire Blast and only aids it against one attack type in fire that isn't very popular while Rattled would aid it against 3 types two of which are extremely popular to run as an attack move (U-turn, Knock Off) that can be predicted with relative ease when they are going to be used.
Teravolt
I think this is an issue that people don't seem too realise. GOURGEIST doesn't have to use Mystical Fire. It was the same prob with ppl talking bout Zelf. Ppl were like, but Megalix slams it. Zelf could still run levitate to fuk with Megalix since being Fairy type alone is a major buff. So ppl complaining about 4MMS on it, it doesn't have to run it. So we have a grass type that COUNTERS CharY and HEATRAN. That's OP as shit. While really lacking STAB it should of gained Shadow Force to fuck them up, but subseeding them to death is cool.
Heatrans can at least mess up Gourgeist with Toxic, unless it's a fast subseed set, in which case it can at least play mind games with Toxic and Roar. Taunt basically neuters Gourgeist for a teammate. Gourgeist can't touch Heatran outside of Leech Seed.
For Char-Y, there's always Rock Slide.
0 Atk Gourgeist-Small Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 232-276 (78.1 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO