The Everything some hero (NFL) Thread - 2015-16 Season

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some hero said:
Larry Fitz, Megatron and Brandon Marshall are definitely not top 10 wide receivers. A couple years ago, sure, but they're all done already. Also, i never really liked Jordy and i don't really think much of him. Anyone who gets to play with Rodgers is unworthy of top 10 status imo.
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What's your top 10, then? Mine for this year is (not counting injuries):
  1. Antonio Brown
  2. Julio Jones
  3. Deandre Hopkins (espcially with his QB situation)AJ Green
  4. Larry Fitzgerald
  5. Demaryius Thomas
  6. Odell Beckham Jr.
  7. Dez Bryant
  8. Calvin Johnson
  9. Alshon Jeffery
  10. Brandon Marshall
Honorable mentions to the Allen duo, Amari Cooper, T.Y. Hilton, and Ted Ginn Jr. Jordy Nelson, Steve Smith Sr., Keenan Allen probably would be here if not for injuries.

some hero said:
Good for him, he's still a mediocre nobody that got burnt by the best WR in the league. He can keep his play, i'd rather have ODB and his all time great stats. But that's okay, you seem to be a fan of mediocre players.
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Well that mediocre player saved the SB for the Patriots. ODB is great but I'm certain he's not the best WR in the league.
 
As a colts fan I have to say this season has been terrible. Andrew Luck has done terrible this year and the offensive line has been terrible. Andre Johnson and frank gore failed to live up to my expectations. If it weren't for the terrible division we would probably only win two games. Outside of games we played against our division we're 1-5. The defense can't stop anyone also.

Being a colts fan I wanted to say that Peyton Manning is a favorite of mine. Congratz to him for breaking Brette Favres record. He has had a terrible season as well but I will always still consider you one of the best despite the poor season. Thanks for the time in Indianapolis.
 
some hero said:
Larry Fitz, Megatron and Brandon Marshall are definitely not top 10 wide receivers. A couple years ago, sure, but they're all done already. Also, i never really liked Jordy and i don't really think much of him. Anyone who gets to play with Rodgers is unworthy of top 10 status imo.
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All three are statistically in the top 10 in total yards. Also Fitz averages higher yards per game than your man ODB and has one less touchdown than him. And Jordy clearly has a bigger impact on Green Bay's offence than people previously thought. Look at how much that offence has stalled without Rodgers having his #1 option.
 
naYpalm said:
All three are statistically in the top 10 in total yards. Also Fitz averages higher yards per game than your man ODB and has one less touchdown than him. And Jordy clearly has a bigger impact on Green Bay's offence than people previously thought. Look at how much that offence has stalled without Rodgers having his #1 option.
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Eh Eddie Lacy suddenly becoming bad probably had a bigger impact on the Packs passing offense. I mean a bigger impact than Jordy getting hurt. I'm saying that both hurt the packs offense, but Lacys lack of impact is definitely hurting them more.

I know that they're good right now, but it's probably their last good season so it's not even worth it ranking them.What's the point when we know next season they'll do nothing?


Brawl MK said:
What's your top 10, then? Mine for this year is (not counting injuries):
  1. Antonio Brown
  2. Julio Jones
  3. Deandre Hopkins (espcially with his QB situation)AJ Green
  4. Larry Fitzgerald
  5. Demaryius Thomas
  6. Odell Beckham Jr.
  7. Dez Bryant
  8. Calvin Johnson
  9. Alshon Jeffery
  10. Brandon Marshall
Honorable mentions to the Allen duo, Amari Cooper, T.Y. Hilton, and Ted Ginn Jr. Jordy Nelson, Steve Smith Sr., Keenan Allen probably would be here if not for injuries.


Well that mediocre player saved the SB for the Patriots. ODB is great but I'm certain he's not the best WR in the league.
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My top ten:

ODB
Julio
Brown
Sanders
Deandre
DT
Green
Dez
Alshon
TY

Dez and Jeffery would be higher if they weren't injured. I'd place both above sanders and deandre. I think Green could be in the top four but the Bengals just have too many options right now. I am thinking that he'll have a great second half of the season though and might end up in the top 5.
 
some hero said:
Eh Eddie Lacy suddenly becoming bad probably had a bigger impact on the Packs passing offense. I mean a bigger impact than Jordy getting hurt. I'm saying that both hurt the packs offense, but Lacys lack of impact is definitely hurting them more.

I know that they're good right now, but it's probably their last good season so it's not even worth it ranking them.What's the point when we know next season they'll do nothing?




My top ten:

ODB
Julio
Brown
Sanders
Deandre
DT
Green
Dez
Alshon
TY

Dez and Jeffery would be higher if they weren't injured. I'd place both above sanders and deandre. I think Green could be in the top four but the Bengals just have too many options right now. I am thinking that he'll have a great second half of the season though and might end up in the top 5.
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You're a Giants fan ranking Odell Beckham Jr number one. Yep, totally not biased. As a Colts fan, TY is not top 10. Brandon Marshall, Calvin Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald > Emmanuel Sanders and Alshon Jeffery.
 
some hero please show me your definitive statistics that prove ODB is better than Antonio Brown. Really, I'd love to see how one can even come to that conclusion.
 
Emmanuel Sanders is one of the best wide receivers in the game. The dude had a ridiculous 2014 grabbing 104 catches on a measly 140 targets, that's crazy. This year Peyton collapsed and his stats plummeted sure but Sanders is an unbelievable talent.
 
i love odell beckham jr, but you have to be a biased giants fan to think he's better than antonio brown at the moment. OBJ will probably eclipse him in the future at some point, but right now he doesn't come close. antonio brown is the best in the game, period. the only man that comes close to him is julio jones.

i will say, however, that OBJ is an otherwordly talent and he's definitely in my top 5. let's just try to not get ahead of ourselves though, he's only been in the league for 2 years. let's see more of him before we're ready to crown him as the league's best.

also, emmanuel sanders is not one of the best receivers in the game. his 2014 season was fantastic no doubt, but that's the only season in his entire career where he eclipsed over 1000 yards. and it's not like he was playing with scrubs prior to peyton... he had roethlisberger throwing him the rock. i consider that season more of an outlier. he's good, but not quite elite.


getting away from this topic, what do you guys think about the panthers' in the playoffs? their defense is legit, cam newton is legit... but can you really put your money on this team winning the superbowl with ted ginn jr as the number one receiver? for me, the favorite for the superbowl from the NFC are the cardinals. more complete team, imo.. but we'll have to wait and see.

also, i'm tired of analysts everywhere constantly talking up the seahawks. no matter what they do, the seahawks are still regarded as elite. but the fact of the matter is, the seahawks are anything but. they won 2 controversial close games against the hapless lions and the dez-and-romo-less cowboys, they've lost to every single 'elite' team they've faced (packers, bengals, panthers), their offensive line is a joke, and their defense and run game is just not what it was last year. this is clearly not the same team we've seen the last 2 years. yet every week its the same narrative: the seahawks will turn it around, just like they did last year. they'll make a late playoff push... yeah, i'm not buying it.
 
If the Panthers get home field advantage throughout the playoffs I'd have to call them the favorites in the NFC. Cam's playing like a stud, that team can run the ball and there isn't an offense in the league that wants a piece of the Panthers' defense. Their receiving corps are garbage but they can run a pretty good dink and dunk offense with Olsen and their RBs.
 
Seeing the rest of the schedule I think it's safe to call Panthers the #1 seed. Atlanta twice, Tampa Bay at home, at Saints, at Giants, Washington, at Cowboys. I can realistcally see 3 losses (Cowboys, one to Atlanta, one to whoever you want). I don't think any other team can only have one more loss for the rest of the season, though the NFL is so unpredictable.
 
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Someone please splain to me how Cam Newton is "elite" and "playing like a stud" when he's completing 56.3% of his passes at 7.5 ypa with 15:9 TD-INT ratio and 84.8 passer rating? That's pretty mediocre as far as I can see. Make excuses for him all you want by saying his WRs are bad, he's still not the reason this team is winning. Their defense, especially the secondary, is keeping them in games and Newton is doing just enough to get them over the hump each week. He's a good goal line RB, but a pedestrian QB at best.
 
I'm a Cam h8r thru and thru, but the reason he's playing well isn't because his passing ability lol. Carolina is 3rd in points/game and in the middle of the pack on offense (honestly outside of the top 6, the difference isn't that much until you get to the bottom 5, difference between #1 Arizona and #7 Cincinnati is about the same as Cinci and #28 Denver) despite having almost 0 supporting talent. Greg Olson is good, but their top WR would be a WR3 on half the teams in the league and WR2 on the other half. Jonathan Stewart is an average at best RB, and the offensive line is meh. Honestly, with another good but not great QB at the helm, this is a bottom 10 offense that could neither throw not pass effectively.

Obviously it's Cam's running ability that both forces the defense to be honest and actually keeps the chains moving. He's on the verge of numerous rushing QB records, and will probably have them all in a few years. 15/9 is not impressive, but he has 21 TDs for the year and is on pace for 37 total, which is somewhere between "great" and "elite." He's on pace for 3600 passing yards, mediocre by today's standards, but almost 4300 total which is good.

Your mistake is apparent in your last sentence. If "Quarterback" was synonymous with "passer" you would be 100% correct. However, it is a position, and as such anything that a player does while playing that position that adds value makes him a better Quarterback. If Cam can lead a successful offense basically alone, it doesn't really matter how he does it. And yeah, he is doing it, somehow.

"Elite" depends on your preference on how many QBs you consider deserve that title (if it's 3, Cam probably isn't one of them) but he's definitely good and having a good season. If cap mismanagement hadn't bungled that team's offensive talent, they'd be one of the best offenses in the league, even if Cam is a mediocre passer.
 
Setting rushing QB records would be more impressive if the QB position wasn't so overwhelmingly pass oriented. It's easy to set records when only a handful of QBs in history have even attempted to be "running" QBs. One could argue that guys like Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton and John Elway were good at scrambling, but they were still great passers first. Having strong running ability like Cam does obviously doesn't hurt him in certain schemes, but when your passing ability is below average it really hampers your overall effectiveness as a QB. If we weighted running and passing equally at the position sure, Cam would be elite. Thing is we don't, and Cam's inconsistency at passing is far more of a disadvantage than his running ability is an advantage. Additionally, his total TD number is grossly inflated by the fact that he vultures goal line TDs from his RBs because he's a glory hog.

tl;dr you're putting too much weight into his running ability on an overall scale. It does improve his effectiveness at the position a little, but we're talking about a jump from mediocre to decent/good, not all the way to great/elite. Passing ability is still way too important for running ability to make up for it.
 
Even though I think cam newton ain't shit I feel like u can't say that his running ability isn't part of what makes ppl think he is good.
His running ability hides the fact he is an average passer, but he is getting results. It's like Rajon Rondo with the 2008-2012 Celtics where he was a below average shooter but his passing and defense made up for it. Also cam is tough and competitive so yea. I can speak from experience when you have a QB and RB who can make plays on the ground and at the goal line it opens up so many opportunities for ur offense
 
The problem is that Cam is a good passer. His receivers are genuinely that bad. His best receiver is Ted Ginn Jr. A man literally famous for dropping balls. Twice. In the clutch. But somehow the panthers are winning in the clutch fairly consistently.

First off you vastly underestimate how important And how difficult red zone offense is. Getting rushing TDs against goal line defenses is hard. So it's not just like "oh hey we're going to get a free rushing td here, who wants it?" Cam earns those TDs. And that cumulative 4 point difference is fucking gigantic on how the game plays out. It also is a boon because being able to score a td consistently also means a team is more able to mount comebacks and taking advantage of game winning opportunities. Yes his defense is doing a shitload of work but he is doing so much of the work on offense it's unreal.

To compare, Cam is 15th per attempt, 3rd in TDs and 5th in first downs... when he's running. He is quite literally a top 10 running back playing QB. And at QB he's not slouching either, where he's 14th per attempt and 10th in TDs. He's not a PERFECT passer but he's doing well enough and combine that with his running ability and it's blatantly clear how great he is.
 
TheValkyries said:
The problem is that Cam is a good passer. His receivers are genuinely that bad. His best receiver is Ted Ginn Jr. A man literally famous for dropping balls. Twice. In the clutch. But somehow the panthers are winning in the clutch fairly consistently.
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Unless we have different definitions of "good" I'd have to disagree. Among active starting quarterbacks with 1500+ passes, Newton has the 2nd lowest career completion % (only ahead of Andrew Luck, l-o-l) and is at a plateau or regressing even given his sorry state of receivers. PFF ranks him #22 in accuracy this year, and his previous seasons are all over the board but never what I'd call "good" (26th, 13th, 23rd). The Panthers are completely aware of his tendency to miss high, and are drafting/signing larger receivers to compensate (Olsen, Kelvin Benjamin, Devin Funchess) literally in hopes that larger targets will be harder to miss. Cam has literally had 50% completion or less in 4/9 games this year, and until going 21/26 last week had only once gone over 60%. At a guess, part of the reason might be because he attempts fewer short passes than most QBs these days, which also leads to high yards/completion at least this season (they are #2 behind Arizona, last two years they were #19 an #17) but I couldn't say for sure. Either way, I wouldn't put him in the top third of accuracy for starting QBs, so I'll stick by my mediocre statement.

Agree completely on the red zone value he brings though. Just the pressure of him maybe running the ball creates more opportunities for others to score, which obviously can't be quantified but is still important.

Honestly if the MVP award was anything like it's name suggests Cam would probably edge out Brady for it this year, though that could easily change if/when the Patriots are still effective after losing their #2 and #3 pass catchers.
 
Part of the reason Cam's completion % is lower because he doesn't throw many screen passes. I'd say at least %5 of all the passes of the QBs with high completion % are screens, and most of those are caught, so that kind of inflates their completion %. He isn't a great passer, but his deep passing skills are quite good (look at GB game). However, the tendency to throw high is still there, sometimes his throws are too powerful (that would've put up 11 more points against GB because one of the field goals was missed). I think his passing skills will get better, they already have this year if you look further than the stats.
 
I did some math on Brawl MK and his stats, here is what I have found:

Cam Newton is projected to throw 484 times. But say he threw an additional 5% of screen passes putting him at 509. (You may notice 25 throws is not 5% of 484. Well this is because if he threw 5% then the 484 would represnet only 95% of his passes) So with these additional 25 compeletions (again the benefit of the doubt all passes were caught) we have 297 completions and 509 throws for 58.3%. That would make him tied for 46th in the NFL, on par with Brock Osweiler and less than Colin Kaepernick (!!!!!) Now let's take away irrelevant QBs with lesss than 150 attempts. That puts him 26th in completion percentage.

Now let's compare him to Aaron Rodgers who has thrown 313 times for 198 completions. Taking away his screen completions and replacing them with incomplete passes gives 313 attempts and only 182 completions. This would give Rodgers a 58.1% accuracy. What happens when 50% of Rodger's screens are caught? He throws for 60.7%

Some of these numbers are irrelevant. but tl;dr screen passes are pretty irrelevant and Cam Newton has shit accuracy

Also wow my 10 year old sister could probably catch those passes if they were a speed relative to her.
 
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