BellyAma [New Hariyama Set]

mHMM

A while back, i fought someone here on Smogon that used a Hariyama and I was surprised by both its survivability (144 base HP) and its power as a late-game sweeper (decent movepool and 120 base attack). Since then, I have been using a Hariyama myself, off and on, with varying success. I created about five or six sets for him, but this one stood out as being the most prominent and I was surprised that there was nothing like his Analysis. When Stealth Rock is up, and your opponents are slightly weakened or paralyzed, this thing is an absolute beast:

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Impish Nature - Thick Fat
204hp/252atk/54def
- Belly Drum
- Bullet Punch
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Thunderpunch
- Cross Chop/Close Combat

Easily switches into physical moves (especially Bug, Rock, Dark, Ice, and Fire type moves, that he resists) and Belly Drum's up for an early +6 attack. Bullet Punch will be your primary attack for finishing enemies off, compensating for its piss-poor speed, and the fourth slot if for stab. Cross Chop usually gets the job done, and allows him to continue taking hits, but Close Combat still packs a harder punch. The third slot really depends on your team. Thunder Punch takes care of Gyarados, Skarmory, and Slowbro. Ice Punch is for Dragons, Gliscor, and Tangrowth. Fire Punch hits Bronzong and Metagross who easily wall this set if he doesn't carry it.
On the defensive side, Leftovers is a must as opposed to Life Orb becuase it allows him to gain back the health that he lost from Drumming. The EV spread allows him to not even be 2HKO'd by an Adamant Garchomp's EQ.

Damage Calculations:
All calculations are done with worst case scenarios in mind (they all have +def natures, perfect IVs, and 252 EVs in HP and Defense) and AFTER A BELLY DRUM with the move that would do the most damage to the specified pokemon.

Blissey: Cross Chop: 313% - 369%
Tyranitar: Cross Chop: 413% - 486%
Gliscor: Ice Punch: 216% - 254%Tangrowth: Ice Punch: 95% - 111%
Weezing: Any Punch: 59% - 69%
Bronzong: Fire Punch: 119% - 140%
Metagross: Fire Punch: 102% - 120%
Skarmory: Fire Punch or Thunderpunch: 106% - 124%
Dusknoir: Any Punch: 62% - 72%
Forretress: Fire Punch: 200% - 234%
Cresselia: Any Punch: 45% - 53%
Swampert: Cross Chop: 118% - 138%
Rhyperior: Cross Chop: 171% - 201%
Hippowdon: Ice Punch: 85% - 100%
Tangrowth: Ice Punch: 92% - 108%
Slowbro: Thunderpunch: 103% - 120%
Vaporeon: Thunderpunch: 126% - 148%
Milotic: Thunderpunch: 127% - 149%

feel free to request any calculations if you don't want to run them yourself.

Counters:
Weezing is very scary because he can survie all of Hariyama's attacks and can easily Haze him back to his lowly, unboosted attack. Skarmory and Hippowdon can do the same thing, if you are carrying the wrong elemental punch.

Other Options:
Salac Berry can work well if you give him Substitute over Bullet Punch for the added ability of being able to takes hits and status well, but the speed boost from Salac won't be enough to let him outspeed much.

What to Pair This Set With:
leona0000 said:
you could try and pair this with a choice band weavile with moves like pursuit, ice shard, AA, BB, to get rid of faster things your opponent may throw at you, so you can easily set up without worrying about being overrun.
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bingo.

so what do you think?
 
Old...

Its not that good in practice, too many focus sashers, and priority moves out there...

In BL, it should work better.
 
Hmm, I've seen this set before on YouTube I think. Do you know what would really be over kill? Combining Burn Orb, Guts, Belly Drum, and Facade XD.

Anyways, I like this set. Is it really not put in the analysis? Compared to the other threads I have seen with MS Ideas for Pokes (which take long and risky set ups that usually fail) this is by far the best today.
 
its a cool set, yet not that original. but id suggest investing more evs into defense than attack. just enough to make belly drum get enough benefit.
 
I feel the need to point out that quite a few pokemon that can survive a bullet punch outspeed you and can wear you down or KO you (especially since Harimaya's gonna be hurting after Belly Drum).

I don't think it would end up being that effective in practice, really.
 
i searched around and the only thing i found on this was a thread about which pokemon could learn priority moves and belly drum, and that thread didn't get into set details or have any calculations. there was one Hariyama discussion thread that had a similar set listed, but it was dated, incomplete, and not very detailed.

and Pyr0, why would this set do better in BL when hard hitters in OU can't kill it and he can kill all of the OU walls?

Dragontamer said:
Wait, what?

Fake Out can't occur after you belly drum...
Click to expand...

really? why is that?
maybe I'll just forget about Fake Out.

EDIT: which is why i advised against it, Loetke.
 
Hmm, I was just thinking.. what If Hariyama used the Bellyzard set?

Truth is, it can't. Even with 252 Speed, Jolly Nature, and Salac Boost, it only has 327 speed. That's one stat point under a Positive Max Speed Base 100 Pokemon, ouch.
 
strikesocom said:
Hmm, I was just thinking.. what If Hariyama used the Bellyzard set?

Truth is, it can't. Even with 252 Speed, Jolly Nature, and Salac Boost, it only has 327 speed. That's one stat point under a Positive Max Speed Base 100 Pokemon, ouch.
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roflmao, yea after belly drum
Garchomp
Infernape
Jolteon
Starmie
Alakzam
Gengar
Weavile

yes all those common sweepers say hi

even after you Belly Drum, your only killing, 3 of those pokemon, with bullet Punch, the rest live, never Salac with this guy, then you might as well, try a Salac Torrent Swampert, with Surf... yea, some shit just don't work out.
 
Cuteslims said:
roflmao, yea after belly drum
Garchomp
Infernape
Jolteon
Starmie
Alakzam
Gengar
Weavile

yes all those common sweepers say hi

even after you Belly Drum, your only killing, 3 of those pokemon, with bullet Punch, the rest live, never Salac with this guy, then you might as well, try a Salac Torrent Swampert, with Surf... yea, some shit just don't work out.
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Yeah, and the funny thing is about that, the 3 you OHKO will probably have Focus Sash, and will ruin you a few seconds after it activates.
 
mHMM said:
really? why is that?
maybe I'll just forget about Fake Out.
Click to expand...

Good effort, but I'm surprised that you didn't look into how fake out works . . . it can only be used once, and only the turn immediately after Hariyama comes in. In other words, after a b. drum, hariyama's already been in for a turn, so no fake out.

The way I look at it if I'm running a risky move like belly drum, I better expect the payoff to be big if I pull it off-- taking down 2+ pokes, hopefully more than that. After all, if Hariyama's going to have a good chance of being taken down when using it, he better have a GOOD chance of really paying off if he manages to pull it off. With that low speed stat, and with bullet punch being such a pathetic offensive type (and without stab in this case to boot), is the payoff really likely to be 2+ pokes? I'm thinking that even if I take down one of those slower tanks, almost any speedy sweeper is going to be able to take you out or else force a switch that gets rid of belly drum.
 
Careful reading of the Hariyama analysis would reveal that belly drum/bullet punch IS mentioned... just not by the author of the analysis. It's mentioned as having the potential for a late game sweep, which it does, I think. I haven't actually tried using it because frankly it is inferior to the other things Hariyama can do. But late game, I expect it would do quite a bit of damage.
 
I've tried a Bellyama a couple times on Shoddy with a Trick Room team. It can work, but the fact that you're halving what basically gives Hariyama its survivability and the fact that so many things outrun generally limits its killing potential. Plus, even with the +6 attack boost and an adamant nature Hariyama's damage output with Bullet Punch was a bit depressing, which is a bit damning when many of the faster walls can take Hariyama once he's /cut himself for the Belly Drum boost. Any faster attacker that can get in and survive Bullet Punch also ends Hariyama's aspirations.

I like Hariyama, and maybe it's the team I was using it on, but so far the Belly Drum set hasn't really grown on me like his team support sets have.
 
strikesocom said:
Hmm, I've seen this set before on YouTube I think. Do you know what would really be over kill? Combining Burn Orb, Guts, Belly Drum, and Facade XD.

Anyways, I like this set. Is it really not put in the analysis? Compared to the other threads I have seen with MS Ideas for Pokes (which take long and risky set ups that usually fail) this is by far the best today.
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Interesting. I think I'll try it.
 
I think a more practical set would be:
Hariyama@Salac Berry/leftovers/burn orb
jolly
guts
4HP/252atk/252spd(HP might need to be ajusted)

Substutute/facade
Belly drum
Faint Attack
Close Combat

Sub up on the switch, belly drum, activates salac berry.It's massive HP means that it's sub won't be broken by sismec toss. Closee combat will be our main attack, but night slas for coverage.

Burn orb can be use, if you take sub away for facade. belly drum on the switch, then own with burn orb
 
Flash_gearz said:
I think a more practical set would be:
Hariyama@Salac Berry/leftovers/burn orb
jolly
guts
4HP/252atk/252spd(HP might need to be ajusted)

Substutute/facade
Belly drum
Faint Attack
Close Combat

Sub up on the switch, belly drum, activates salac berry.It's massive HP means that it's sub won't be broken by sismec toss. Closee combat will be our main attack, but night slas for coverage.

Burn orb can be use, if you take sub away for facade. belly drum on the switch, then own with burn orb
Click to expand...

wut?
Which one is it?
 
Pyr0 said:
Old...

Its not that good in practice, too many focus sashers, and priority moves out there...

In BL, it should work better.
Click to expand...

Not too many Pokemon use Focus Sash for fear of Stealth Rock and Sandstorm.
 
Focus Sash users tend to be starters/leads.

On paper Belly Drum Hariyama looks like a beast but in practice its deadweight against anyone half decent. The main problem being Hariyama's crap for speed and Bullet Punch's general lack of power even with a Belly Drum.

Also Belly Drum basically cuts what makes Hariyama such a beast in half.
 
its obvious that u first ise stealth rock before sending this thing in..
so the focus sash thing isnt really valid,s ince this thing is for lategame sweep
 
okay. i guess i misunderstood how fake out works, so that has been taken out.
as for everyone saying that this guy is taken down to easily by sweepers and the health loss takes away from what he is, i would like to remind you that BellyAma is first and fore-most a late game sweeper. he has the power to beat the shit out most of the walls in the game (at least 2HKO'ing every common wall in the game). The upside that he has against other poke's that boast this is that he will usually (even after the 50% health drop from Belly Drum) take a hit or two and cause serious damage to sweepers as well.
i do agree with Flash Gearz, however, and will give Substitute and Salac Berry a mention for extra survivability and potential.
to all of the people saying that this looks good on paper but not in real testing, i would like to remind you that i have been using different variations of Hariyama since the release of D/P and this set works. not to say there isn't room for improvement, but please don't bash this if you have never seen it work.
 
i think this set is designed to overpowering walls, rather than sweeping. you are cutting hariyama's monstrous hp in favor of attacking power, but the problem is that he is very slow to attempt a sweep. snorlax can belly drum and has slightly higher defenses and hit points, but speed is what really hindering him as a possible belly drum user. you could try and pair this with a choice band weavile with moves like pursuit, ice shard, AA, BB, to get rid of faster things your opponent may throw at you, so you can easily set up without worrying about being overrun.
 
I fail to understand the point of many of those calculations. What good does OHKOing Gliscor do when he is faster than you and will kill you first? Same goes for Metagross and Skarmory. You've just lost half your HP for nothing, since you'll either stay in and die, or switch out and lose your boost. You can make him faster than most Skarmory, but your EV spread give him 136 Speed, 40 points slower than Skarmory's minimum.

You could've robbed them of their item with Knock Off or 2HKOed Skarmory with CB Close Combat (if you give him enough Speed) or OHKOed (not guaranteed, it does 90 - 100%) Gliscor with a CB Ice Punch and you'll still have all your HP. Even if Gliscor survives and Roosts, he dies the next turn and can't OHKO a full strength Hariyama with Aerial Ace.
 
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