Monotype Viability Rankings

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Stunfisk The Great said:
Hey nice write up, but I'm gonna disagree I think with heatran. It can absorb rock attacks nicely, and with the right investment can check diancie (which note, that is something Darmanitan can also do), but on a usually hyper offensive team, there isn't a lot of room, and there's also the fact that it has no recovery, which really hurts it's role as a wall. I'm gonna say B rank for that.

As for Infernape, I would slash Thunder Punch on some of these sets. Very helpful against water and flying, and it can check gyarados prior to boosting. You could even slash HP Ice on the LO set, since it sits at a great speed tier, so it can potentially check Chomp, Landos, ans even certain dragons. Nice write up otherwise
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I have to disagree with your tiering placement of Heatran, and definitely agree with Zarif 's placement of A rank.

Like Zarif said, Heatran is one of fire's only checks to Mega Diancie, and honestly that alone gives it a case for A rank. Aside from Heatran's awesome typing and defensive capabilities, Heatran also makes it to where the fire user doesn't have to run Torkoal, and can run a more hyper offensive team.

Here is the Heatran set I like to run:

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Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

This set allows you to outspeed and disable a large portion of hazard setters in the tier with Taunt, replace Torkoal as the SR setter, hit hard with respective STAB moves, and check Mega Diancie with Air Balloon + Flash Cannon. Earth Power can also be run on this set, but I don't like it because all of these moves are almost necessary. (But if you were to run it, I would recommend running it over Taunt.)
Although you lose access to Torkoal's Rapid Spin, Taunt + Defog Mega Charizard Y deals with hazards fairly well, and this set can make your team much more offensive.

And by the way...
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 214-252 (88.7 - 104.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
While...
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 524-618 (149.2 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And...
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 368-434 (104.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't want my Mega Diancie check to only have a 25% chance of beating it.

And if it doesn't Mega Evolve, you don't even have a chance to OHKO...
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 162-192 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While...
0 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 348-410 (99.1 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Personally, I would rather have this as my Mega Diancie check:
252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 484-576 (200.8 - 239%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While...
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO


tl;dr: Heatran has many attributes that are really beneficial to Fire's type as a whole, making it A rank for Fire.
 
Mega Ridley said:
I have to disagree with your tiering placement of Heatran, and definitely agree with Zarif 's placement of A rank.

Like Zarif said, Heatran is one of fire's only checks to Mega Diancie, and honestly that alone gives it a case for A rank. Aside from Heatran's awesome typing and defensive capabilities, Heatran also makes it to where the fire user doesn't have to run Torkoal, and can run a more hyper offensive team.

Here is the Heatran set I like to run:

485.gif


Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

This set allows you to outspeed and disable a large portion of hazard setters in the tier with Taunt, replace Torkoal as the SR setter, hit hard with respective STAB moves, and check Mega Diancie with Air Balloon + Flash Cannon. Earth Power can also be run on this set, but I don't like it because all of these moves are almost necessary. (But if you were to run it, I would recommend running it over Taunt.)
Although you lose access to Torkoal's Rapid Spin, Taunt + Defog Mega Charizard Y deals with hazards fairly well, and this set can make your team much more offensive.

And by the way...
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 214-252 (88.7 - 104.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
While...
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 524-618 (149.2 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And...
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 368-434 (104.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't want my Mega Diancie check to only have a 25% chance of beating it.

And if it doesn't Mega Evolve, you don't even have a chance to OHKO...
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 162-192 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While...
0 Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 348-410 (99.1 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Personally, I would rather have this as my Mega Diancie check:
252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 484-576 (200.8 - 239%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While...
0 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-183 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO


tl;dr: Heatran has many attributes that are really beneficial to Fire's type as a whole, making it A rank for Fire.
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After SR you have a guarentees OHKO on Diancie. But, I can see better why now, thanks.
 
Zarif said:
Heatran for A Rank on Fire (Explanation)

485.gif


Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Flash Cannon

Fire is a type with little to no walls. Out of this small amount of walls, Heatran is definitely the one that stands out the most. With it's respectable 91 HP, 106 Defense and 106 Special Defense, it can easily be called Fire's best wall. With a good typing Fire/Steel it can come into Rock type attacks and even do damage with Flash Cannon/Earth Power. It has an amazing Special Attack (130) stat that people tend to forget about. It also can check Mega-Diancie with Air Balloon while also helping Fire with a switch in for Outrage. I, personally like the Specially Defensive set the most because Fire has a Physical Wall in Torkoal. Another thing that makes Heatran so good is it's versatility. It can run different types of sets on Fire e.g Choice Scarf, Stealth Rocker, Bulky Attacker etc. I'd even say that it could potentially be S Rank for Fire.
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Zarif add Choice Scarf to the set because it checks Mega Diancie and also has potential to check other threat EX: Lando-I (HP Ice) Volc (Stone Edge or Ancient Power) etc depending on its coverage move. Also have SR as an option on Ape and Heatran because not everyone uses Torkal and they are also used on fire for that purpose (although very rarely). Other than that its solid
 
iVid said:
Zarif add Choice Scarf to the set because it checks Mega Diancie and also has potential to check other threat EX: Lando-I (HP Ice) Volc (Stone Edge or Ancient Power) etc depending on its coverage move. Also have SR as an option on Ape and Heatran because not everyone uses Torkal and they are also used on fire for that purpose (although very rarely). Other than that its solid
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Ape already had SR though?

Here's the rocks Heatran set I personally use to moderate success. If Infernape can't lay rocks, this set ends up laying them due to the offensive pressure it can create on hazard removers, especially with sun up.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon

Speed for speed creeping because I don't like putting the last 4/8 into a defensive stat, HP EV's to survive a +6 Azumarill Aqua jet in sun after stealth rock (+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran in Sun: 302-356 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), Special Attack EV's and modest to apply as much offensive pressure as possible Stealth Rock because it's the best move in the game, Earth Power because Fire's anti-Heatran options are otherwise Infernape which I don't like saving and Entei's Bulldoze which is unreliable, and Plume and Flash Cannon for solid STABs.

Also, I do agree for it being A rank, it's not nearly as meta-defining as zardy but it is definitely a fantastic addition to any Fire team.
 
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I agree with Heatran for A, here's the hugely underrated set I use on all of my Fire teams:

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice

Revenge kills Landorus, Diancie, +1 Dragonite, Kyurem-B, Lopunny, Medicham, Garchomp / Mega Garchomp, all huge threats to Fire, and even more.
It's a huge Dragon check all around, as Fire usually has nothing for any of them (Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, any Draco Meteor user, etc)
Also is a huge threat to Fairy in general; nothing can switch in on Flash Cannon if revenge killing Diancie (Klefki is 2HKOd, Azumarill is 3HKOd)

edit: sniped (kind of)
 
yanmega.gif
Yanmega from C to A rank on bug (if not A then at least B)

Aight so I was scrollin through the viability list for a bit and I was checking out bug and I saw that yanmega was no where to be found in the A and B ranks of bug. From experience in using this monster, I can tell you along with some others, that Yanmega is a force to be reckoned with on bug. Between speed boost and a wide range of coverage moves and the ability to run a spA boosting nature, it makes for an underrated threat that needs to get more love. Now lets dive into some sets.
Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The idea behind this set when I made it was that it had the potential to perform very well against a type like dragon. You won't be able to break through a dragalge but really any build without drag is pressured by this set. You can kill bulk chomp a lot easier with yanmega on your side which is a huge upside for bug because without yanmega, chain chomp can be a pain in the ass to take out for bug. while it doesn't like it, Yanmega does bulk out a banded espeed form d nite with it having decent natural physical bulk with a base 86 stat. if you can safely keep rocks off. You will be able to tank it and continue to dish out hits afterwards with a reasonable amount of hp leftover. It is also a really nice way to deal with the landos. Lando I just kinda blows through bug, especially if pinsir hasn't mega'd yet and yanmega is a good way to either put it out of commission or force it out so you have a better shot at dealing with it later.

Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Air Slash
- Giga Drain

This is a set that my boi Sabella used on his bug team that he peaked with and just from looking at it, it seems to be geared toward giving ground a really hard time with the giga and HP ice combo. Gets past gastro, hippo, the landos, and chomper. All in all another effective set that gives all around good type coverage.

Another thing with Yanmega is that it compliments Volcarona really nicely. Bug in general has to rely on its mons having a shit ton of coverage and if you are running volc and yanmega on the same team, you can mix and match what you want to cover between the 2 which is really nice and you can pull off some cool sets with the two. Like if you have bug stab on yanmega, you can afford to run giga drain and something like hp ground on volc and get away with not running a bug stab to get that type coverage. On the flip side, if you decide you want to run bug stab on Volc, than you can get away with running the grass coverage and maybe something like ancient power with the extra slot.

So yeah all in all I think the bird bug should get a bit more love due to the versatility it adds to bug as a whole and the coverage it has within itself.

Hope you guys like it!

EDIT:
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 400-473 (95.2 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 406-478 (113.7 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 416-494 (130.4 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 167-197 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 216 HP / 40 SpD Gastrodon: 489-577 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 263-309 (72.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 281-333 (66.9 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


​
 
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Wanka said:
yanmega.gif
Yanmega from C to A rank on bug (if not A then at least B)

Aight so I was scrollin through the viability list for a bit and I was checking out bug and I saw that yanmega was no where to be found in the A and B ranks of bug. From experience in using this monster, I can tell you along with some others, that Yanmega is a force to be reckoned with on bug. Between speed boost and a wide range of coverage moves and the ability to run a spA boosting nature, it makes for an underrated threat that needs to get more love. Now lets dive into some sets.
Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The idea behind this set when I made it was that it had the potential to perform very well against a type like dragon. You won't be able to break through a dragalge but really any build without drag is pressured by this set. You can kill bulk chomp a lot easier with yanmega on your side which is a huge upside for bug because without yanmega, chain chomp can be a pain in the ass to take out for bug. while it doesn't like it, Yanmega does bulk out a banded espeed form d nite with it having decent natural physical bulk with a base 86 stat. if you can safely keep rocks off. You will be able to tank it and continue to dish out hits afterwards with a reasonable amount of hp leftover. It is also a really nice way to deal with the landos. Lando I just kinda blows through bug, especially if pinsir hasn't mega'd yet and yanmega is a good way to either put it out of commission or force it out so you have a better shot at dealing with it later.

Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Air Slash
- Giga Drain

This is a set that my boi Sabella used on his bug team that he peaked with and just from looking at it, it seems to be geared toward giving ground a really hard time with the giga and HP ice combo. Gets past gastro, hippo, the landos, and chomper. All in all another effective set that gives all around good type coverage.

Another thing with Yanmega is that it compliments Volcarona really nicely. Bug in general has to rely on its mons having a shit ton of coverage and if you are running volc and yanmega on the same team, you can mix and match what you want to cover between the 2 which is really nice and you can pull off some cool sets with the two. Like if you have bug stab on yanmega, you can afford to run giga drain and something like hp ground on volc and get away with not running a bug stab to get that type coverage. On the flip side, if you decide you want to run bug stab on Volc, than you can get away with running the grass coverage and maybe something like ancient power with the extra slot.

So yeah all in all I think the bird bug should get a bit more love due to the versatility it adds to bug as a whole and the coverage it has within itself.

Hope you guys like it!

EDIT:
252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 400-473 (95.2 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 406-478 (113.7 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 416-494 (130.4 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 167-197 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 216 HP / 40 SpD Gastrodon: 489-577 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 263-309 (72.2 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 281-333 (66.9 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


​
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The gret part about yanmega also is it alows u to use the other megas outside of pinsir bc it gives u that crucial flying stab vs types likes fighting and water.
 
Nominating Magnezone for S Rank on Electric

latest


If you ask say, all of the people who have played electric for a large amount of time, and built various teams, you'll find that the vast majority say that almost 100% of the time they need to include the same 4 mons in order to make a team viable for any kind of serious laddering. Unsurprisingly these 4 are Rotom-W, Zapdos, Thundurus-I, and Magnezone, but the latter seems to be the only one left outside of S rank. So here's to what unique factors Magnezone brings to an Electric Monotype.
​
(Choice Specs Attacker)
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]

(Set simplified, custom speed creeping advised, Analytic is an option for the ability, can also be ran with HP Ice, Mirror Coat and Toxic also options.)
This set tends to be the most popular for a variety of reasons. Choice Specs the item helping considerably as it allows Magnezone to check a huge threat in Mega Venusaur, cripple Gastrodon, break through Calm Mind Clefable, and also break cores such as M-Sableye T-Tar, and Water cores with Lanturn.
The speed allows Magnezone to outspeed threats to it such as EQ/HP Fire Mega Venu and Heatran, which allows it to ensure large amounts of damage on them. The Sturdy ability will always be invaluable, making Magnezone something to consider in matchups such as Fire and Ground, where without it, it would be OHKO'd due to its weaknesses.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 192-226 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 184-218 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 356-420 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Air Balloon Trapper)
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]

(More defensive EVs are optional, Tbolt an option over Twave, Toxic and Reflect/Light Screen also alternate options. HP Grass also available.)
Maybe the original idea of the set was made to trap Excadrill yes... but with the set Magnezone can do far more than just deal with one mon. With Rotom-Heat not hugely viable, the only options for Fire type moves that Electric Monos have are with Mega Manectric, and Heat Wave Zapdos. This set provides a (argueably better) alternative, as it allows you to completely trap problematic steel types, such as Ferrothorn (and Excadrill). But rather than just dealing with Steel types, having Thunder Wave allows Magnezone to be helpful in almost all matchups, being able to Paralyze key threats. With it's respectable bulk, and unique typing, it forms a nice Defensive core with Rotom-Wash and Zapdos, it's 3 weaknesses being covered. This set also becomes one of the best viable checks to numerous threats to Electric, being able to switch in to Kyurem-B, Dragonite, and Diggersby. (Sets permitting)

252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 224-264 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 204-242 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 117-138 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 144-169 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 146-172 (42.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

(I understand a Choice Scarf set is also viable, patching up Magnezone's speed stat, however I feel that Electric is certainly not short on fast special attackers, and this post likes to highlight why Magnezone is unique.)

All in all a primary factor in what makes Magnezone so invaluable, is the extra steel typing it brings to the table. This completely changes the face of Fairy and Ice matchups, and is incredible helpful in Poison, Dragon and Normal match ups too. But it's not just against these types that Magnezone is valuable, thanks to it's Sturdy ability and base 130 Special Attack it's severely damaging in every matchup providing hazards are kept off the field. But Magnezone doesn't neccesarly have to be run with Sturdy, all it's Abilities are viable (Analytic somewhat less) and can leave an opponent guessing and not knowing what to expect, where they only find out for sure until it's too late. (E.g. A steel mon is trapped, or Sturdy is popped.)
So despite it's inconvenient speed tier, Magnezone's unique typing, fantastic Special Attack, Various Good abilities, and helpful bulk on the Physical side is why I'm nominating it for S rank.​
 
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Sabella said:
Tylacto you cluld possibly add hp grass to mag as an option to i think ive seen you and lthers ise that
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Yeah I understand HP Grass is quite often run, but the Air Balloon Magnet Pull set, based around the trapping of steel types, likes to carry HP Fire to actually make use of trapping mons such as Ferrothorn. With that being said I'm happy to add it as an alternate option.
 
Tylacto said:
Yeah I understand HP Grass is quite often run, but the Air Balloon Magnet Pull set, based around the trapping of steel types, likes to carry HP Fire to actually make use of trapping mons such as Ferrothorn. With that being said I'm happy to add it as an alternate option.
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Yea it works very similar to how its supposed to work in ou. I just meant as an alternate option so new elec users can figure out how to kill lord gastro
 
I'd like to suggest some rank changes for Ice in the standard Monotype Viability Rankings.

Currently, Walrein and Rotom-F are B rank 'mons. While I don't play Ice regularly, I do know it is impossible to build a team that doesn't just auto-lose to Scizor without them. As such, I feel they should be in A-rank.

Lapras, another possibility in this role, is generally considered to be outclassed by them, so it would be good to keep in B-rank.

Edit: I went through these further and I'd also like to suggest Articuno move down from A-rank to B-rank. Avalugg is the primary hazard control on Ice. I'd argue Cryogonal, a B-rank 'mon, is just as good with its roughly equivalent special bulk, reliable recovery, better speed tier, and identical Special Attack.

Tagging Stunfisk The Great and CrazyClown94 for their input because I know they've built and played Ice competitively with some success.
 
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scpinion said:
I'd like to suggest some rank changes for Ice in the standard Monotype Viability Rankings.

Currently, Walrein and Rotom-F are B rank 'mons. While I don't play Ice regularly, I do know it is impossible to build a team that doesn't just auto-lose to Scizor without them. As such, I feel they should be in A-rank.

Lapras, another possibility in this role, is generally considered to be outclassed by them, so it would be good to keep in B-rank.

Edit: I went through these further and I'd also like to suggest Articuno move down from A-rank to B-rank. Avalugg is the primary hazard control on Ice. I'd argue Cryogonal, a B-rank 'mon, is just as good with its roughly equivalent special bulk, reliable recovery, better speed tier, and identical Special Attack.

Tagging Stunfisk The Great and CrazyClown94 for their input because I know they've built and played Ice competitively with some success.
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Tbh scp, I agree with most of these. Articuno should go down (contrary to my original proposal for it to go up). It has pretty good bulk, and access to Hurricane, but what desperately hurts it is the fact that it's 4x sr weak. Avalugg is definatley the superior hazards control bc there's a lot more you can do with it, it's defense stat is amazing, allowing it to narrowly check some of the biggest physical threats around.

Walrein I can argue for it to go to A rank, but the problem is it isn't used as much as its competitor, Lapras, and in some match ups, water being a big 1 (besides signal beam for Mega Gyarados), it can't really do much. While on the other hand, Lapras will almost always have a role in most of your matches, with the cost of losing Thick Fat, and needing to run more speed evs in order to creep mega scizor (while Walrein speed ties with it prior to mega evolution). Rotom however is interesting. It shares a similar niche with Lapras in that it helps a bunch against water matchups, but it also gains more speed, it has access to Volt Switch, and also can get WoW. The problem is though, it's walled by Grass/Ground mons unlike Walrein (Frost Breath usually 2KOs), and Blizzard has very low accuracy unless you run Abomasnow (which will usually be mega, and remembering Hail only lasts for 5 turns, and noting Rotom probably won't be switched right in). So, my overall consensus, I wouldn't mind Lapras and Walrein for A rank, Rotom I'm leaning towards more so B rank, but that's up for debate.

The Cryogonal argument is interesting, however. It does have great special defense, and a usable special attack. It also sits at a pretty good speed tier. The problem is it is very frail on the defensive side, and it's sp defense isn't as gargantuan as Avalugg's, so it isn't as easy recovering lost damage, remembering ice is terrible when it comes to being a defensive type, meaning it'll more than likely be hit by a super effective attack much more than a neutral one. iVid actually won a core challenge with it, and just barely peaked over 1500s, and he can probably agree the cost of not being able to have Avalugg would of been pretty high. It's also worth mentioning Avalugg does a great job in checking Terrakion, Lopunny, Bisharp, Medicham (so long as Sturdy is preserved), and a bunch of other physical attacks. What exactly can Cryogonal help out with? The main argument here is, it's simply outclassed. It'd keep it at B rank.

Hope this helps
 
This is sort of a small thing that might not be worth the effort, but I think that reorganizing the main viability rankings to a format similar to one of the Mono OM viability rankings (can't remember which one) would be more beneficial, with it separated by typing; one hide tag would be normal and you open it to see all of the ranks S-E. This makes it a lot easier if you're trying to build a team for a type and just want to see the viability rankings of that one type as it can get rather tedious to keep scrolling down and finding the type underneath the rank.

example:
S
(chansey sprite) (porygon-2 sprite)
A
(Meloetta sprite), etc
 
Sorry about the double post, but here's a Gyarados revamp

gyarados.gif

Gyarados (Flying) for B Rank

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Taunt / Substitute

This set is for teams who want Water STAB but already have something else as their mega. +1 Gyara is enough to sweep weakened teams, so Intimidate is also an option if you want an easier time setting up. Jolly is the best nature because you want to outspeed as much as possible, and after a couple of Moxie boosts, you'll 1HKO pretty much everything. Lefties are for letting Gyara regain some lost health. Dragon Dance is explanatory, +1 attack and speed. Waterfall is a strong STAB that hits Skarm pretty hard. Bounce is for Fighting types, and Mega Venusaur / Ferrothorn who resist Waterfall. Taunt is to shut down passive mons such as Skarmory whereas Substitute prevents status.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Scald
- Dragon Tail / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Thunder Wave

A more defensive set. Gyarados's amazing typing lets it wall mons such as CM Sableye, Specs Keldeo, Landorus-I (w/o Rock Slide), Zard-Y and more. It also acts as a status absorber, and spreads status. Unfortunately, it's weak to Stealth Rocks so you need to be careful with it. Scald is to burn switchins, Waterfall is a waste because it's weak without investment and is weakened by burns. Dragon Tail is to shuffle mons, but Roar can be used to shuffle Clefable and mons behind a sbustitute. Rest is mandatory since Gyarados has no reliable recovery. Finally, Sleep Talk is to prevent Gyara from being setup fodder when asleep. However, Thunder Wave can be used if you have a Heal Beller on your team.
 
Since the viability rankings were kind of screwed up, we made a groupchat and went through each type one by one and reranked everything. Huge list, took about 2 hours! shoutout everyone in the groupchat Lax Omega-Xis14 Wyn Chompers Dirpz Cell Chakra Jahken Jack.
Normal: Blissey C -> D Kecleon C -> D Slaking C -> D Cinccino C -> D Chatot D -> Unranked

Fighting: Conkeldurr A -> B Lucario B -> C Heracross B -> A Mega Heracross Unranked -> C Chesnaught B -> C Toxicroak C -> D Machamp C -> D

Flying:
Charizard A -> S Salamence B -> C Aerodactyl Unranked -> C mega aero unranked -> C vivillon D -> unranked

Poison: Nidoqueen A-> S nidoking ->A Tentacruel A -> B Weezing A -> C Mega Beedrill B -> C Golbat C -> B amoonguss b ->c crobat b -> a roserade b-> c

Ground: gliscor a->b lando-t a->b mega chomp a-> s regular chomp b->a diggersby b->c mega swampert c->d krookodile c->b nidoking unranked -> C rhyperior d-> unranked zygarde unranked -> c donphan unranked -> d

Rock: regular diancie a->c mega aero a->b mega ttar b->c tyrantrum b->c archeops b->c armaldo c->d kabutops unranked->d aggron d->unranked solrock d->unranked crustle unranked->D reg aero unranked->c

Bug: reg scizor a->S scolipede a->b mega beedrill b->c shuckle b->a vivillon b->c

Ghost: gengar a->s hoopa a->c gourgeist c->b trevenant b->c mega banette c->d shedinja unranked->c misdreavus unranked->D

Steel: klefki a->b jirachi a->b lucario b->c durant b->c? metagross c->d bronzong c->d magnetone unranked->C registeel unranked->d cobalion unranked->b

Fire: typhlosion d->unranked mega camerupt unranked->d

Water: suicune a->b politoed a->b tentacruel a->b reg gyara b->a kabutops b->c crawdaunt b->c feraligatr b->c reg pedo c->d jellicent c->d mega blastoise c->d vaporeon c->d qwilfish d->unranked kingdra unranked->b ludicolo unranked->c

Grass: breloom a->s ludicolo b->c whimsicott b->a roserade B->c mega sceptile b->c tangrowth c->D trevenant d->unranked reg sceptile d->unranked celebi unranked->C shiftry unranked->C chesnaught unranked->D shaymin unranked->C or D

Electric: Stunfisk B->D jolteon c->d magneton unranked->D thundy-t unranked->B

Psychic: victini a->s regular gallade b->c wobb c->D reuni c->D espeon unranked->D malamar unranked->D

Ice: articuno a->B cryogonal b->c jynx c->d aurorus unranked->D

Dragon: Dragonite A->S mega latias B->A tyrantrum B->C

Dark: hoopa-u a->S umbreon b->c drapion c->d spiritomb c->d scrafty c->d

Fairy: reg diancie b->c granbull C->D
tagging Anttya sorry for making you do so much work! also, when you finally make all these changes, i would look at each one and double-check to make sure there's no duplicates because right now a bunch of types have a pokemon ranked twice.

edit: if anyone disagrees with any of these please reply to this post! some of these weren't 100% decided on. if you need an explanation for some, you can ask me too.
 
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I was looking through your list very briefly AFD and there was one change I must address. "celebi unranked->C". Ever since the beginning I have used Celebi because it can be used in so many ways for Grass Monotype teams. You can use the Life Orb 4 attacks set which helps tremendously against some types like Poison and Steel (since my set was Psychic, Leaf Storm, Earth Power, and HP Fire), a support set with SR, T-Wave, etc... or even a scarf set with Healing Wish. Celebi has so many viable sets which makes me feel like it should at least be A or B. C is just too low.
 
all falls down said:
Since the viability rankings were kind of screwed up, we made a groupchat and went through each type one by one and reranked everything. Huge list, took about 2 hours! shoutout everyone in the groupchat Lax Omega-Xis14 Wyn Chompers Dirpz Cell Chakra Jahken Jack.
Normal: Blissey C -> D Kecleon C -> D Slaking C -> D Cinccino C -> D Chatot D -> Unranked

Fighting: Conkeldurr A -> B Lucario B -> C Heracross B -> A Mega Heracross Unranked -> C Chesnaught B -> C Toxicroak C -> D Machamp C -> D

Flying:
Charizard A -> S Salamence B -> C Aerodactyl Unranked -> C mega aero unranked -> C vivillon D -> unranked

Poison: Nidoqueen A-> S nidoking ->A Tentacruel A -> B Weezing A -> C Mega Beedrill B -> C Golbat C -> B amoonguss b ->c crobat b -> a roserade b-> c

Ground: gliscor a->b lando-t a->b mega chomp a-> s regular chomp b->a diggersby b->c mega swampert c->d krookodile c->b nidoking unranked -> C rhyperior d-> unranked zygarde unranked -> c donphan unranked -> d

Rock: regular diancie a->c mega aero a->b mega ttar b->c tyrantrum b->c archeops b->c armaldo c->d kabutops unranked->d aggron d->unranked solrock d->unranked crustle unranked->D reg aero unranked->c

Bug: reg scizor a->S scolipede a->b mega beedrill b->c shuckle b->a vivillon b->c

Ghost: gengar a->s hoopa a->c gourgeist c->b trevenant b->c mega banette c->d shedinja unranked->c misdreavus unranked->D

Steel: klefki a->b jirachi a->b lucario b->c durant b->c? metagross c->d bronzong c->d magnetone unranked->C registeel unranked->d cobalion unranked->b

Fire: typhlosion d->unranked mega camerupt unranked->d

Water: suicune a->b politoed a->b tentacruel a->b reg gyara b->a kabutops b->c crawdaunt b->c feraligatr b->c reg pedo c->d jellicent c->d mega blastoise c->d vaporeon c->d qwilfish d->unranked kingdra unranked->b ludicolo unranked->c

Grass: breloom a->s ludicolo b->c whimsicott b->a roserade B->c mega sceptile b->c tangrowth c->D trevenant d->unranked reg sceptile d->unranked celebi unranked->C shiftry unranked->C chesnaught unranked->D shaymin unranked->C or D

Electric: Stunfisk B->D jolteon c->d magneton unranked->D thundy-t unranked->B

Psychic: victini a->s regular gallade b->c wobb c->D reuni c->D espeon unranked->D malamar unranked->D

Ice: articuno a->B cryogonal b->c jynx c->d aurorus unranked->D

Dragon: Dragonite A->S mega latias B->A tyrantrum B->C

Dark: hoopa-u a->S umbreon b->c drapion c->d spiritomb c->d scrafty c->d

Fairy: reg diancie b->c granbull C->D
tagging Anttya sorry for making you do so much work! also, when you finally make all these changes, i would look at each one and double-check to make sure there's no duplicates because right now a bunch of types have a pokemon ranked twice.

edit: if anyone disagrees with any of these please reply to this post! some of these weren't 100% decided on. if you need an explanation for some, you can ask me too.
Click to expand...

I've been meaning to reply to this, but there's a few things I felt like could of been ranked a bit differently, feel free to agree or disagree on anything I'm suggesting.
Normal: I would probably leave Kecleon at C, Protean + Shadow Sneak can be fairly handy as a pseudo-fighting immunity, it isn't that terrible of a mon I don't think otherwise.

Fighting: I'd also leave Toxicroak at C rank as well. Yes it is underused, but one of its STABs can hit fairy supereffectively, which can prove to be troublesome for fighting teams. Not to mention it also gets Sucker Punch, which is pretty decent priority. Lucario you can kinda argue about it staying at B rank for a similar reason, and that it's another viable special attacker (since Keldeo is typically the only 1 ran on Fighting Teams). Arken has some success with it, so I'm gonna vouch B for that.

Flying: Looks good

Poison: I'm not totally sure why Nidoqueen would be S ranked. It is very good, since it has great bulk, and its the only SR setter alongside Nidoking, but is it really game-defining? I'm not sure about that 1, I'm kinda torn. I'm also a bit baffled as to why Weezing is C ranked. It's got great defense, has access to will-o-wisp, as well as clear smog/haze, and its immune to ground. I'd probably keep that at A rank. Also not sure about Crobat being ranked up, it's a fast taunter, good hazard removal, and does have consistent recovery unlike weezing, but, errr, idk, I'd probably keep that at B if it was me.

Ground: Looks good, however may want to put Diggersby back at B, since it is a pretty good Physical Wallbreaker, however in a sense Mamoswine does outclass it. I'll leave that 1 at your digression.

Rock: I wouldn't drop regular Diancie so low, but I do agree it isn't A rank. I'm gonna say B for that one. The rest looks good though

Bug: Also looks good, although not sure about Scizor being S ranked. It is a great mon, and with the loss of Genesect its viability definatley went up but, idk that may be a bit too high.

Ghost: I'm not exactly sure why Gengar is S ranked, for the same reason, it isn't game defying on ghost. It's got great usage, but I'd probably leave that at A. I'd put Hoopa at B rank over C, yea it does have that pretty bad dark weakness, but so does the rest of ghost mons tbh. It's got great special defense, especially with an assault vest (Chleg uses it very well on his own ghost team), and its deceptively powerful. Trevenant I wouldn't drop at all personally, it and gourgiest are fairly similar, although Trev has probably the better recovery (lum+rest/sitrus), if used right it can be quite annoying to face.

Steel: I would leave Jirachi at A, since it can fill a few roles, and it's able to sweep fighting fairly easily.

Fire: Looks good

Water: I would personally leave Jellicent at C, its a decent special defensive wall, not to mention it can also spin block. That's more debatable if anything tho. Mega Blastoise isn't everyone's 1st choice of mega, but, its still pretty bulky, can act as a spinner, and also has great coverage. leave that at C.

Grass: Is breloom really S ranked tho. Same deal, its very good, but idk if its up to that level.

Electric: Stunfisk I would actually drop to c, given its electric's only SR setter. Thundy T I would probably put at C than b, good special wallbreaker, but it's other form outclasses it a bit in terms of viability (as with Lando I>Lando t on ground).

Psychic: About time Victini got S back, I've been arguing for that 1 for a while.

Ice: I would actually put Aurorus at C. Ghast has used it on his ice, and he did pretty good, the set he was using was actually pretty nifty.

Dragon: Agree with those

Dark: I'd keep Umbreon at B, it actually is a great wall, and synchronise can be pesky if you go to status it.
Hope these helped any, sorry I didn't get to reply sooner.

Edit: gonna take Anttya to this real quick bc idk if she saw this or not
 
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all falls down said:
Since the viability rankings were kind of screwed up, we made a groupchat and went through each type one by one and reranked everything. Huge list, took about 2 hours! shoutout everyone in the groupchat Lax Omega-Xis14 Wyn Chompers Dirpz Cell Chakra Jahken Jack.
Normal: Blissey C -> D Kecleon C -> D Slaking C -> D Cinccino C -> D Chatot D -> Unranked

Fighting: Conkeldurr A -> B Lucario B -> C Heracross B -> A Mega Heracross Unranked -> C Chesnaught B -> C Toxicroak C -> D Machamp C -> D

Flying:
Charizard A -> S Salamence B -> C Aerodactyl Unranked -> C mega aero unranked -> C vivillon D -> unranked

Poison: Nidoqueen A-> S nidoking ->A Tentacruel A -> B Weezing A -> C Mega Beedrill B -> C Golbat C -> B amoonguss b ->c crobat b -> a roserade b-> c

Ground: gliscor a->b lando-t a->b mega chomp a-> s regular chomp b->a diggersby b->c mega swampert c->d krookodile c->b nidoking unranked -> C rhyperior d-> unranked zygarde unranked -> c donphan unranked -> d

Rock: regular diancie a->c mega aero a->b mega ttar b->c tyrantrum b->c archeops b->c armaldo c->d kabutops unranked->d aggron d->unranked solrock d->unranked crustle unranked->D reg aero unranked->c

Bug: reg scizor a->S scolipede a->b mega beedrill b->c shuckle b->a vivillon b->c

Ghost: gengar a->s hoopa a->c gourgeist c->b trevenant b->c mega banette c->d shedinja unranked->c misdreavus unranked->D

Steel: klefki a->b jirachi a->b lucario b->c durant b->c? metagross c->d bronzong c->d magnetone unranked->C registeel unranked->d cobalion unranked->b

Fire: typhlosion d->unranked mega camerupt unranked->d

Water: suicune a->b politoed a->b tentacruel a->b reg gyara b->a kabutops b->c crawdaunt b->c feraligatr b->c reg pedo c->d jellicent c->d mega blastoise c->d vaporeon c->d qwilfish d->unranked kingdra unranked->b ludicolo unranked->c

Grass: breloom a->s ludicolo b->c whimsicott b->a roserade B->c mega sceptile b->c tangrowth c->D trevenant d->unranked reg sceptile d->unranked celebi unranked->C shiftry unranked->C chesnaught unranked->D shaymin unranked->C or D

Electric: Stunfisk B->D jolteon c->d magneton unranked->D thundy-t unranked->B

Psychic: victini a->s regular gallade b->c wobb c->D reuni c->D espeon unranked->D malamar unranked->D

Ice: articuno a->B cryogonal b->c jynx c->d aurorus unranked->D

Dragon: Dragonite A->S mega latias B->A tyrantrum B->C

Dark: hoopa-u a->S umbreon b->c drapion c->d spiritomb c->d scrafty c->d

Fairy: reg diancie b->c granbull C->D
tagging Anttya sorry for making you do so much work! also, when you finally make all these changes, i would look at each one and double-check to make sure there's no duplicates because right now a bunch of types have a pokemon ranked twice.

edit: if anyone disagrees with any of these please reply to this post! some of these weren't 100% decided on. if you need an explanation for some, you can ask me too.
Click to expand...
I didn't get a notification but I saw this on Friday. I was studying for midterms as well so sorry it took so long to update!
 
Anttya said:
I didn't get a notification but I saw this on Friday. I was studying for midterms as well so sorry it took so long to update!
Click to expand...

That's understandable since I had a similar problem. Btw, I'd like to point out how Jynx is in both C and D rank on Ice lol.
 
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