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STABmons Viability Rankings Thread v3 ✿

UPDATE: Thundurus + Diggersby are now in S Rank.

Should we drop Landorus-T? Should a S+ Rank be created? What are your guys thoughts on the other Pokemon to be ranked still?

Insignia Dignitas said:
I'm gonna sound like a naive idiot here but I haven't had any problems with Landorus-T. Is it S because of Roost and hazard stacking or physical Flying STAB or, most likely, a combination of the two?
Click to expand...

Just sheer versatility and role compression in one slot. Always does its job, consistent, albeit predictable. It's just a really astounding Pokemon, but it's so borderline that I'm not sure if it should be S or A+!
 
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That's my problem. I have no idea how to use Landorus-T in this metagame so I have no idea how to prepare for it except the obvious Extreme Speed: The Metagame strategy.

EDIT: If I had half a clue, I'd use it myself so I could help decide whether it should be S or A+.
 
When it comes to making S+ and S- ranks, I don't think that is necessary. I think that instead only for the S rank the mons should be listed by viability instead of alphabetical order. I think that would accomplish everything that we would be trying to accomplish with the sub S ranks imo.
 
Will leave some thoughts on the undecided mons:

428-mega.png
Mega Lopunny to A-:
Mega Lopunny is definitely on of the top megas in the format behind Mega Altaria and Mega Charizard-Y. It's STABs are simply amazing when combined with Scrappy, and Fake Out + Extreme Speed is amazing on this mon thanks to it not being walled by ghost types. I have been using Fake Out + Swords Dance and it just plows through offense thanks to it's high 135 Speed and it's equally monstrous 136 Attack. It is slightly outclassed by Diggersby, due to it not having mega opportunity cost and that it gets destroyed by Mega Altaria, but I still believe it contends with the pother A- mons like Aerodactyl and Meloetta for it's sheer offensive capabilities.

474.png
Porygon-Z to A-:
After the Shell Smash ban, Pory did take a hit in it's viability, but it still is an aggressive walbreaker with Scarf/Specs Adaptability Boomburst. There reeally isn't any switchins to this thing (especially specs) and with the right support, Pory can really pull through. It's average speed and quite low defenses hinder it's capabilities with all this priority going around, but it still acts as one of the best nukes in the meta atm and I find A- suits it just fine.

700.png
Sylveon to B+/B:
Although Togekiss and Mega Altraia give it a run for it's money, Sylveon is still incredibly good as another powerful nuke thanks to it's Specs Boomburst set. Like Pory, switchins to this are very hard to find thanks to Fairy's amazing offensive matchups. It's coverage is not that great, relying on weak moves like Psyshock and HP Ground to hit stuff that resists Fairy (although you can run Earth Plate Judgment), it also has quite low speed and defense, making it difficult vs offense. Ihave also seen some Sylveon run Swords Dance and Extreme Speed quite effectively (although Mega Alt would do that better imo). I am just still torn on whether or not it's capable of B+ after all it's nerfs or if B would suit it better.

I haven't really played with Mega Venusaur that much, but I believe it would be good thanks to it checking two of the meta's most prominent threats in Mega Altaria and Keldeo. Spore and Seed Flare are also two nice addition to it's movepool, and it can run Gunk Shot, Power Whip and Coil as a gimmick. Probably deserving for B+ or something.

I don't like the idea of sub-dividing S tbh, and would much rather see the mons listed by viability instead of alphabetically like Scyther no Swiping had mentioned previously.
 
I don't see Thundy as an S rank Pokemon anymore. Drop to A+ imo.

- it hates the fakespeed spam going on rn because the 3 relevant ones (Diggs, Malt and Urs) all shit on it, due to its lack of bulk
- Sab is a lot less common now, while it is still good it isnt anywhere near the same levels of insane-broken-wtf-thing it was with dark void, and it is no longer super common. this is the previously S rank threat Thundy shat on
- loses 1v1 to Kyub as well most of the time, meaning the only S rank it beats 1v1 consistently is Lando and even that can bop it with Scarfed Stone Edge sometimes

It is definitely still a very big threat, but fits more in the A+ category IMHO.


As for the S rank discussion: I support sorting them in order of viabilty. I suggest:
1. Malt
2. Diggs
3. Lando-T
4. Kyub
5. If its still here, Thundy

Fairly self explanatory. Only one that might I think is questionable is Lando-T and Kyub, but honestly Lando-T has soooooo many sets, it can run fully offensive, fully support, and a shit ton of mixes. The mon is so stupidly versatile, its sheer unpredictability is a big factor.
 
[21:44:04] +baconbagonz: actually on that note, why is clef a+ rn D:
[21:44:12] +baconbagonz: i feel like its not that great in stabs
[21:44:17] +baconbagonz: where everything has such a power boost
[21:44:29] josh: so nom it down nerd

well i just got called a NERD so i feel insulted and will now write up this post.

i feel like the general power boost to everything makes clefable far worse in stabmons, and not quite worthy of a+ rank. in ou, clef is undoubtedly s rank because of its amazing typing and just enough bulk. but everything gains that little 10 or 20 base power boost to their moves, and clefable often struggles to actually take the hits in battle. don't get me wrong though, it's still a really, really good pokemon that's a great glue, spreads twave, is extremely threatening late game with calm mind, can run unaware, and fits on all archetypes.
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 179-212 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Landorus-T Precipice Blades / Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 223-264 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

etc.
things that were hopelessly walled by clefable before often find it much easier to 2hko it now. it can still take a hit, thunder wave, and pivot out easily against many of these pokemon, but i feel like clef just isn't an a+ pokemon right now. still waiting for light of ruin D:

basically, clef is actually whacked around by a lot of the upper section of the viability rankings, and i feel like its low stats are highlighted in such a brutal, hard hitting, offensive metagame. i view it as much more on par with the pokemon in a rank that have serious flaws, such as tyranitar and weavile, and don't actually think it's on par with amazing threats such as shift gear mega scizor and water spout keldeo. clefable to a?
 
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Despite the fact that we're waiting for boomburst, a few of the pokemon on this list don't have a niche anymore anyways.

Clefable: I don't see how this is threatening at all. In OU it's incredibly good because it narrowly avoids a huge number of 2HKOs, but in STAB it gets practically OHKO'd by just about everything. The big dragon types are spamming Psystrike, VCreate, and Icicle Crash, not Draco Meteor and Dragon Claw. Honestly, I can't find much that this does that Klefki doesn't do with +1 priority. I would put it in C or unranked. It has almost no niche, bad stats, and bad typing for the meta.

Togekiss: Since Geo is RIP, Togekiss has lost its niche. Pretty much every flying type does OWing spam better. I would put this at C, since Yanmega is better.

Stoutland: BD is gone and Sableye is pretty much non-existant. I'd say it's lost its niche over things like snorlax, braviary, and staraptor. I would drop this to B-.

Also, this thing is pretty good.

Gyarados: I would like to see this rise. It's defensive set is one of the few that can take on most Diggersby variants (it doesn't care about PBlades, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, or Knock Off), it also has pretty good matchups against Keldeo, Zard-y, M-Scizor, Heatran, Excadrill, and Azumarill. Its damage output and coverage is solid without any investment thanks to Crabhammer and Brave Bird. And it has utility in Defog, Dragon Tail, and TWave. I would move it up to A-.
 
Changes:
  • 428-m.png
    Lopunny-Mega: Unranked ---> A Rank
  • 474.png
    Porygon-Z: Unranked ---> A Rank (potentially A+ Rank?)
  • 700.png
    Sylveon: Unranked ---> A- Rank
Discussion Points:
  • 707.png
    Klefki: A+ Rank ---> S Rank
  • 036.png
    Clefable: A+ Rank ---> A Rank (or lower?)
  • 003-m.png
    Venusaur-Mega: Unranked ---> B Rank
  • Should Pokemon weak to Fairy-types that were generally placed lower be raised on the basis that Mega Altaria was banned?
 
Also, let me start off with Klefki and Clefable discussion, as these two are on most of my teams lol.

Klefki is a nomination of my own. I firmly believe Klefki is S Rank at this point in the current metagame. The raw utility it provides in just two movesets alone (Thunder Wave / Spikes) is comparative to none. Klefki is a wonderful boon for offensive teams in being that it can paralyze top tier threats (Terrakion, Serperior, Keldeo, Mega Scizor) while not dying in return. Well, maybe to Keldeo, but my point stands. Thundurus can provide this, but its better set is Nasty Plot with maybe Thunder Wave splashed in. Klefki's utility doesn't end there, as it has Spikes to offer role compression and set up on common Pokemon that can't do anything in return. Its third slot is between Moonlight, King's Shield, and Magnet Rise. Personally, I prefer Magnet Rise, but it's really team dependent. With Moonlight, Klefki offers utility throughout the entire course of the game; King's Shield, it pressures physically offensive Pokemon; Magnet Rise, it takes away its biggest weakness and serves as an excellent stop to Diggersby, Landorus-T, and non-Fire Blast Garchomp. The final slot is best saved for Flash Cannon, in my opinion, to hit Mega Diancie.

A counterargument may be that Klefki has "overall low stats". I do not think this is fair in the slightest, since simply its defensive typing makes up for any issue it has. Klefki offers so much for hyper offensive teams, it's actually insane. The sheer utility it packs into one teamslot is comparative to none. I wholeheartedly believe that currently, Klefki is shaping the meta in ways that may not be seen so easily. Firstly, it makes offensive Pokemon risk being entirely ruined, or having to be forced out and have Spikes set up. Klefki manipulates the opponent in a way that makes it an S Rank threat in my opinion. Defensive teams hate this thing also, as it's immune to Toxic, has healing, and can pressure them with Spikes. Klefki is wonderful against every single team style and I have never had a situation where Klefki hasn't pulled its weight.

For these reasons, I believe Klefki is deserving of the prestigious S Rank.
 
unfixable said:
Also, let me start off with Klefki and Clefable discussion, as these two are on most of my teams lol.

Klefki is a nomination of my own. I firmly believe Klefki is S Rank at this point in the current metagame. The raw utility it provides in just two movesets alone (Thunder Wave / Spikes) is comparative to none. Klefki is a wonderful boon for offensive teams in being that it can paralyze top tier threats (Terrakion, Serperior, Keldeo, Mega Scizor) while not dying in return. Well, maybe to Keldeo, but my point stands. Thundurus can provide this, but its better set is Nasty Plot with maybe Thunder Wave splashed in. Klefki's utility doesn't end there, as it has Spikes to offer role compression and set up on common Pokemon that can't do anything in return. Its third slot is between Moonlight, King's Shield, and Magnet Rise. Personally, I prefer Magnet Rise, but it's really team dependent. With Moonlight, Klefki offers utility throughout the entire course of the game; King's Shield, it pressures physically offensive Pokemon; Magnet Rise, it takes away its biggest weakness and serves as an excellent stop to Diggersby, Landorus-T, and non-Fire Blast Garchomp. The final slot is best saved for Flash Cannon, in my opinion, to hit Mega Diancie.

A counterargument may be that Klefki has "overall low stats". I do not think this is fair in the slightest, since simply its defensive typing makes up for any issue it has. Klefki offers so much for hyper offensive teams, it's actually insane. The sheer utility it packs into one teamslot is comparative to none. I wholeheartedly believe that currently, Klefki is shaping the meta in ways that may not be seen so easily. Firstly, it makes offensive Pokemon risk being entirely ruined, or having to be forced out and have Spikes set up. Klefki manipulates the opponent in a way that makes it an S Rank threat in my opinion. Defensive teams hate this thing also, as it's immune to Toxic, has healing, and can pressure them with Spikes. Klefki is wonderful against every single team style and I have never had a situation where Klefki hasn't pulled its weight.

For these reasons, I believe Klefki is deserving of the prestigious S Rank.
Click to expand...
a bit of a long one, but stay with me here.

the problem with klefki isnt that it doesnt have options. is that outside of a spiker and a dual screener it doesnt really do much. sure you get new options in kings shield and moonlight to help...but klefs already suffering from a small moveset. and adding more onto it doesn't help it overall. moonlight and KS is great, but you cant run both togeather without compromising priority T-wave or spikes. which is basically the only reason to use klefki over something like ferrothorn or landorus which are overall more bulky and have more "supportive" abilities, bulk, and moves to help their teammates better. klefki gaining more options is good and all, and its def a threatening pokemon, but S ranked pokemon "Excel" at what they do. and while klefki is good, its still struggling with too much to actually consider it "S rank" worthy. landorus has both a hard hitting offensive set, and a superb walling set. diggersby has a set that sends shivers down both stall AND offense. thundurus's mixed, physical, and special sets are all super tough for stall and offense to handle, especially when you have to guess which one its running. as offensive and stall checks and counters change dramatically depending on which. and kyurem B is literally a Tank that gets dragon dance, a ability that nullifys unaware and levitate, and an attack stat that allows it to ohko neutrals at +1. klefki has a good defensive typing...and can sorta set up spikes on some of the meta. and outright loses/becomes setup fodder to three of the S rankers, and can only check the 4th enless its a special set.

klefki is a good wall dont get me wrong. its got a good typing, a stellar ability, and priority twave...but it still has too many downfalls to be S rank. especially since it cant even keep its hazards up due to skarm, lando, excadrill, and zapdos shrugging off its attacks/ support movepool. lando at least has the chance to be a offensive set, or it gets knock off/u-turn to pivot/remove their item. is klef a threat? yeah, definitely. is it S rank? hell no. its not THAT good. take note using magnet rise requires you to remove healing, spikes, or twave, which losing either of the three turns it into a pretty mediocre pokemon, as thats what klefki is supposed to be doing in the first place, spreading twaves on frail sweepers, getting up some hazards, and checking pokemon like serp, keld, terrak, and loppunny not checking mons that forces it to fear others in retribution. magnet rise just isn't good when you now have healing in your disposal.

i think A+ rank is perfect for it. and i dont see anything that warrents being S rank.
 
ok so now that Diggersby is banned, have a nom to make:

scizor-mega.gif


Mega Scizor to S-Rank
​
Mega Scizor is a powerful threat in the current STABmons metagame really only thanks to Shift Gear and Gear Grind, which let's it set up and mostly 2HKO the entire tier after even only one boost. It's Steel/Bug typing is also amazing, letting it check threats such as Kyreum-B and Porygon-Z more efficiently. The ability to also run more defensive or offensive setup sets is also truly helpful and increases Mega Scizor's ability to sweep teams more easily. Knock Off is also great coverage for it, as it let's it hit Steel types like Skarmory and Ferrothorn (although Magnezone can trap them) and Roost for recovery that really helps Mega Scizor remain a constant threat throughout the whole match. It also has amazing stats across the board, and really does not have much competition for a mega slot (only Charizard, Diancie and Slowbro really threatening it). It of course has it's own checks and counters that are seen quite prominently such as Heatran, Skarmory, Slowbro and Thundurus-I to an extent. It really is an amazing sweeper currently, and should be brought up to S-Rank.

I haven't had too much experience with Klefki yet, but I wouldn't be that opposed for it rising to S too with what I know so far.

Edit: Also remove Diggers :(
 
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Gonna make a big slate of noms cus bored n_n sry if anything is dumb

Manaphy A -> A-: The infamous stallbreaker in a tier with no stall. Nice. Not dead weight against offense, but not an A rank threat either. Suffers a lot from the offense curve. Like a couple other noms I'll make, if the meta was more balanced this would shine, but as of now its just not amazing.

Togekiss A- -> B-: Togekiss - Geomancy = Mediocre Pokemon. Still good typing, serene grace flinching is always fun, or obwing for recovery, but overall just kinda mediocre and not worthy of A-.

Alakazam B+ -> B: A mon ranked high to check setup sweepers when most setup is banned... nah. Was better back during geo smash bdrum age, still ok but not as effective.

Latias B+ -> B: Only reason to use it is for lunar dance, the extra bulk is negligible... oh wait, Latios gets that too! The bulk comes in handy occasionally, but the power difference is better for most teams. Latias does fair better against pursuit trappers like metagross though, takes substantially less.

Snorlax B- -> D: Seriously... lol? Gaining recover is enough to boost this up to B in a highly offensive metagame? Its still slow as fuck and not insanely bulky, and since its running recover it cant rest off statuses. It is a decent mon I guess in another metagame, but not in a heavily offense-oriented one.

Sharpedo-Mega C -> Unranked: Bad. Doesn't gain much. Still lacks setup and is therefore unable to break walls, and with its terrible bulk its not even surviving most resists. Also requires using a mega slot, another nail in the coffin. Really no clue in the slightest why you'd use this on a competitive team.

Hawlucha C -> D: Frail, not that strong, doesn't SD on much. Thundy and Lando both shrug off its attacks, and Kyub outpaces after a DD if unburden hasnt acitvated. Its ok ish, fast, hits hard, but doesn't compare to stuff in C like Metagross, Breloom, etc. D fits.

Hoopa C -> D: Obliterates stall, but Hoopa-U does it better. Its benefits are a different typing granting it an immunity to fakespeed which was nice, but now that Diggs is gone 2/3 of the common fakespeeders remaining have scrappy, and that it cant be trapped, but trapping is now gone (bar dugtrio, which is irrelevant) and actually it is weaker to trapping now due to being far weaker to pursuit trapping than its unbound form, even likely being KO'd if it doesn't switch. So I could see it fitting on teams weak to urs, but thats about it. Unranked is also possible.

Pangoro C -> Unranked: Has no niche. Abysmal speed, poor defenses, bad typing. its decently strong yes, but thats about it. Stall isn't even really a thing for it to beat anymore. Discussed this in OMs as well, the best niche I could discern was:
[20:49:58] #Eevee General: nah man this is pangoro's niche: swords dance mach punch
[20:50:05] #Eevee General: KOs Sab before topsy
And that sounds OK, except that Sableye isn't even the most relevant mon atm, its all the way down in B and the mega is in A. Plenty of other things such as Thundy do it better. Unrank it IMHO.

Moltres C -> Unranked: Its job was to beat Malt. Malt is kill. Unrank pls.

I... actually have no idea what Reuniclus is supposed to do, even after asking in the room with good stabbies players on. None of them knew. Unless there's a decent reason (reply wiht it), Unrank it.

Heracross-Mega C -> D: Prevalence of flying types really really hurt it, 2 of the 3 s ranks simply ohko it with their stabs. It still fits on specific teams, but between being so slow and a mega it just finds itself outclassed a lot factoring in the mega stone opportunity cost. I think it fits the definition of D perfectly.
 
Funbot28 said:
ok so now that Diggersby is banned, have a nom to make:

scizor-mega.gif


Mega Scizor to S-Rank
​
Mega Scizor is a powerful threat in the current STABmons metagame really only thanks to Shift Gear and Gear Grind, which let's it set up and mostly 2HKO the entire tier after even only one boost. It's Steel/Bug typing is also amazing, letting it check threats such as Kyreum-B and Porygon-Z more efficiently. The ability to also run more defensive or offensive setup sets is also truly helpful and increases Mega Scizor's ability to sweep teams more easily. Knock Off is also great coverage for it, as it let's it hit Steel types like Skarmory and Ferrothorn (although Magnezone can trap them) and Roost for recovery that really helps Mega Scizor remain a constant threat throughout the whole match. It also has amazing stats across the board, and really does not have much competition for a mega slot (only Charizard, Diancie and Slowbro really threatening it). It of course has it's own checks and counters that are seen quite prominently such as Heatran, Skarmory, Slowbro and Thundurus-I to an extent. It really is an amazing sweeper currently, and should be brought up to S-Rank.

I haven't had too much experience with Klefki yet, but I wouldn't be that opposed for it rising to S too with what I know so far.

Edit: Also remove Diggers :(
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I honestly could have argued for Mega Scizor to be higher before these changes. I'd been using it the entire time and it just wins. So many sets it can run, and very little counters it.
As for Klefiki, personally I'm not a huge fan of it, I think its fine where it is.

Snorlax B- -> D: Seriously... lol? Gaining recover is enough to boost this up to B in a highly offensive metagame? Its still slow as fuck and not insanely bulky, and since its running recover it cant rest off statuses. It is a decent mon I guess in another metagame, but not in a heavily offense-oriented one.
Click to expand...
The fact that Snorlax is able to still pull off Belly Speed is something that gives it a niche. I think that B- is fine for it, if it falls C+ maybe, but it still works.
 
Joshz

Manaphy should stay where it is. Briefly discussed on Showdown! but I can elaborate here if you'd like.

Alakazam is fine too. It outspeeds like everything, it's incredibly powerful, and it just rips apart teams that lack proper ways of beating it. With the banning of Diggersby, I'd say Alakazam actually got better, not worse. A simple Calm Mind / Psystrike / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball set can easily overwhelm teams. Alakazam is where it's at. Try out the team I sent you. :)

Agree with Togekiss, Latias, Snorlax, Mega Sharpedo, Hawlucha, Hoopa, Pangoro (;_;), and Mega Heracross (;_;7) though.

Thanks for clearing up the lower ranks, they could use some spiffying up~
 
Funbot28 said:
ok so now that Diggersby is banned, have a nom to make:

scizor-mega.gif


Mega Scizor to S-Rank
​
Mega Scizor is a powerful threat in the current STABmons metagame really only thanks to Shift Gear and Gear Grind, which let's it set up and mostly 2HKO the entire tier after even only one boost. It's Steel/Bug typing is also amazing, letting it check threats such as Kyreum-B and Porygon-Z more efficiently. The ability to also run more defensive or offensive setup sets is also truly helpful and increases Mega Scizor's ability to sweep teams more easily. Knock Off is also great coverage for it, as it let's it hit Steel types like Skarmory and Ferrothorn (although Magnezone can trap them) and Roost for recovery that really helps Mega Scizor remain a constant threat throughout the whole match. It also has amazing stats across the board, and really does not have much competition for a mega slot (only Charizard, Diancie and Slowbro really threatening it). It of course has it's own checks and counters that are seen quite prominently such as Heatran, Skarmory, Slowbro and Thundurus-I to an extent. It really is an amazing sweeper currently, and should be brought up to S-Rank.

I haven't had too much experience with Klefki yet, but I wouldn't be that opposed for it rising to S too with what I know so far.

Edit: Also remove Diggers :(
Click to expand...
Any updates on this?
 
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Sableye needs to be back in A somewhere. Just because it lost Dark Void doesn't mean it's a filthy B-ranker. The threat of priority Wisp spooks a lot of the tier and Parting Shot is still an amazing momentum grabber. I'd like A but I can settle with A-.

Gyarados to at least A-. It's about the best Scizor check that can pack a punch plus it doesn't fear coverage or the rare (bad) Bug coverage.

Magnezone to A. Why is it not already?? Traps and removes Scizor (King's Shield helps,) Klefki, Ferrothorn, weakened Heatran, Skarmory, plus it can run the fun Doom Desire + Volt Switch combo. No Ground bar Excadrill wants to eat a Doom.
 
Eevee General said:
Sableye needs to be back in A somewhere. Just because it lost Dark Void doesn't mean it's a filthy B-ranker. The threat of priority Wisp spooks a lot of the tier and Parting Shot is still an amazing momentum grabber. I'd like A but I can settle with A-.

Gyarados to at least A-. It's about the best Scizor check that can pack a punch plus it doesn't fear coverage or the rare (bad) Bug coverage.

Magnezone to A. Why is it not already?? Traps and removes Scizor (King's Shield helps,) Klefki, Ferrothorn, weakened Heatran, Skarmory, plus it can run the fun Doom Desire + Volt Switch combo. No Ground bar Excadrill wants to eat a Doom.
Click to expand...

i'm putting sableye in a-, gyarados in a, and magnezone up to a as well. gyarados is literally a god
 
unfixable said:
Changes:
  • 428-m.png
    Lopunny-Mega: Unranked ---> A Rank
  • 474.png
    Porygon-Z: Unranked ---> A Rank (potentially A+ Rank?)
  • 700.png
    Sylveon: Unranked ---> A- Rank
Discussion Points:
  • 707.png
    Klefki: A+ Rank ---> S Rank
  • 036.png
    Clefable: A+ Rank ---> A Rank (or lower?)
  • 003-m.png
    Venusaur-Mega: Unranked ---> B Rank
  • Should Pokemon weak to Fairy-types that were generally placed lower be raised on the basis that Mega Altaria was banned?
Click to expand...

Question, now that you've made this post; why is Mega Lopunny still unranked?
 
changes i'm going to be making in 24 hours if no objection:
  • mega lopunny: ur -> a+
  • clefable: a+ -> a
  • mega scizor: a+ -> s (lol finally Funbot28)
  • porygon-z: ur -> a
stuff i want discussed:
  • rotom-h: b+ -> a [super effective in this metagame; checks all of thund-t, kyu-b w/o earth power, and mega scizor all in one; fantastic pivot; awesome STAB combo; easy to fit on teams]
  • lando-t: s -> a+ [lost effectiveness in my eyes; set up on by m-zor which kinda sucks and with how much beats it i'm not sold on it being s rank anymore; it's splashable, but i don't see it as meta-defining]
  • keldeo: a+ -> s [specs water spout is the dumbest thing; easy to fit on offensive teams; pressures a lot of shit it really shouldn't haha; requires very little support to function, if any at that]
  • serperior: a+ -> a [not very functioning in the current metagame; m-zor makes it require hp fire, which sucks bcuz speed iv + heatran hardwalls; really lost a lot of what made it rock imo]
  • klefki: a+ -> a [not as viable as before; just kinda sits there versus some pokemon; ugh it can't 2hko mega diancie which sucks; just kinda soft checks things, but does not stop them]
  • chansey: a -> a- [really unviable atm; i guess it can be used if you want; never see it, like ever; it's hard to get an imposter up and terrakion usage is up which is bad news for chansey]
  • mega diancie: a -> a+ [awesome with a lot of the tier in terms of synergy; super threatening, even with mega scizor in the tier; in fact, it 2hkoes it, so it can't even set up on mega diancie; just awesome in general]
  • gyarados: a -> a+ [really awesome in the current metagame; walls shit like mega scizor with ease; tankdos is really popular amongst higher level play and it's kinda awesome at that; dd is also viable]
  • weavile: a -> a- [see: serperior; hardwalled by mega zor; dark void ban really hurt its viability in my eyes; just not as effective as it once was and should drop because of this]
  • mega gyarados: a- -> b [just not viable; gyarados does everything better; it takes up a mega slot, and not even for a good mega, so why use it; also took a nerf with rotom-h rise to fame]
  • quagsire: a- -> b- [really shitty lol; gyarados is strictly better]
  • togekiss: a- -> b+ [uh just bad]
  • celebi: b+ -> b [iffy on this one, but it seems weird in b+]
  • mega sceptile: b- -> b [mega altaria ban + fast spore rocks, is cool mon, @dremz can confirm]
  • breloom: c -> b [actually sees usage, stupidly strong, and is pretty cool overall; should not be in c, and should move up to reflect that it's really not pure shit]
 
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