ORAS OU Dragon-Water-Steel Heavy Offense (1857 Elo)

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--=Introduction=--


Hello. Welcome to my RMT topic.

As you might notice from my join date, I have been engaging in Smogon’s competitive scene for years. During Gen 4, when heavy stall ran rampant as the dominating style of play, I constantly sought to build offensive teams designed to pummel the opposition and have been doing so ever since. This RMT will describe a heavy offense team I created that harkens back to the classic heavy offense style while implementing various aspects of the modern OU metagame. I have been pretty successful with this team and many people have asked for it, so I decided to make a RMT.

Because this type of heavy offense deviates so much from other styles such as stall, balance, and other types of offense, I believe that it is important to know and understand the concepts and philosophies behind heavy offense to use this team effectively. A good place to start is here:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/heavy-offense.61631/

Despite this being a link from past generation, many of the principle tenets and concepts are the same.

What Sprinkles’ topic did not describe is one of the typical weaknesses of heavy offense – the fact that it is inherently flimsy. I wanted to create a team that put significant offensive pressure on the opponent while at the same time retaining some semblance of durability. To achieve this goal I came up with this heavy offense team that draws upon the foundation of the effective Dragon-Water-Steel core which combines firepower and defensive synergy. Interspersed within this core are other combinations such as Dark spam, strong bulky ground types, anti-stall mechanisms, priority, and cleric abilities.​


--=Team Building Process=--

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I began by choosing which Mega Pokemon to use. I decided to go with DD Mega Gyarados over Mega Charizard due to the fact that Mega Gyarados fit the vision of my team better than Charizard X did. Mega Gyarados offers bulky water, useful typing and ability pre-evolution, lesser Stealth Rocks weakness, dual STAB (Dark and Water are excellent offensive typings), and the key ability to pressure Quagsire stall while maintaining an immense offensive presence. To top it all off, I believe Mega Gyarados is underrated and therefore prepared for less than a lot of other setup sweepers.

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I complemented Mega Gyarados with SD Bisharp and DD Zygarde. Not only do they form a dragon-water-steel core, but they also offer me a steel-water-ground core (bulky grounds are important in this metagame), two 80 BP priority moves,wall-breaking ability, and the ability to Dark spam. They have great offensive synergy to boot. Bisharp was chosen as it offers immense offensive pressure, including against Intimidate spam and stall, while providing Knock Off utility. Zygarde is another poorly prepared for sweeper with phenomenal bulk, Stealth Rock resistance (as opposed to dragonite), and great dual STAB.

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I chose offensive Garchomp as my Stealth Rocker. Garchomp is a phenomenal Pokemon – a bulky Dragon/Ground capable of hitting hard. With Garchomp I could get Stealth Rocks up while maintaining offensive pressure. I gave Garchomp SD to help wear down checks and counters to my other physical sweepers.

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I wanted a cleric, of sorts, on this team. Heavy offense, and offense in general, often has difficulties if the battle becomes a war of attrition. Sweepers could become useless after a burn or paralysis. I needed something to both give my sweepers another chance and maintain offensive pressure. Scarf Jirachi was my choice in that it added a cleric, a revenge killer, a steel type with great bulk, and an overall pain in the ass to my team.

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Finally I looked for another bulky water type to complete my defensive backbone and help me against sand and rain teams. I originally went with Azumaril, as I figured it hit hard while offering an option against dangerous weather sweepers such as Kingdra and Excadrill.

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However, my team was somewhat weak against certain things like bulky grass types and Shedinja stall. I soon replaced Azumaril with Tail Glow Manaphy with Psychic and HP Fire as coverage moves.





--=Analysis=--
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Claymore (Garchomp) (M) @ Lum Berry/Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Garchomp is often my lead. It acts as the vanguard of the team, and depending on the opponent’s team, I have the option to set up Stealth Rocks or go straight on the offensive. With the popularity of TankChomp, offensive Garchomp has the advantage of getting some surprise hits, which is a small but welcome bonus.

Garchomp’s main jobs are to set up rocks if needed and then get some damage on the common blanket checks to physical attackers, making life easier for my other physical attackers down the road. Weakened TankChomps, Lando-Ts, Keldeos, Clefables, Ferrothorns, what have you, go a long way in helping maintain a sweep later in the game. I usually don’t mind sacking Garchomp in the process unless I see the opponent has a lot of ground weakness.

Lum Berry is the item of choice. It is an all around great item for any setup sweeper or offensive Pokemon. In this particular case,it allows Garchomp to heavily threaten M-Sabeleye's, Mews, etc that expect the Stealth Rock and go for burns. Rotom-W's that think they can stay in, burn Garchomp, and tank its hits are in for a rude awakening and will be facing a +2 Dragon Claw.

Yache Berry allows me to survive weaker Ice attacks and do damage in return. Be aware that Yache doesn’t protect you from things like Weavile’s Icicle Crash, Mamoswin’s Icicle Crash, Conkeldurr’s Sheer Force Ice Punch, and Kyurem’s Ice Beam, all of which OHKO, so Lum Berry or Focus Sash work too. Just be aware that this ain’t your Daddy’s YacheChomp and that there are a small but significant number of Ice attacks that will OHKO.



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Black Jack (Bisharp) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Bisharp a straight up very dangerous Pokemon that forces the opponent to immediately react. It is very effective against both offense and defense and as long as it’s alive and healthy, it gives me a punchers chance in any game. Smart players know this and I can therefore often exploit this when it comes to the 50-50 mind games that often arise when Bisharp is on the field.

Adamant maximum attack combined with Life Orb allows Bisharp to hit like a truck. Knock off is extremely useful against defensive teams and Bisharp can find itself wearing down opposing tanks and walls so that other team members will have an easier time later on. Sucker Punch, despite relying on winning 50-50 mind games, allows Bisharp to be a potent threat to offense. Bisharp is also my number one threat to Trick Room teams, which, while rare, are matchup nightmares to more conventional offense. Bisharp exploits the fact that Trick Room teams are often Psychic type heavy. Bisharp is potent at any point in a match, whether it is a mid or early game breaker or a late game cleaner with sucker punch.

Bisharp may often be used pretty recklessly. Its main goal is to dish out damage and it doesn’t particularly mind dying in the process due to several other potential win conditions waiting in the wings.



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Faerie (Manaphy) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 84 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Energy Ball
- Psychic

Manaphy is a vital piece of artillery and is the workhorse for this team. Its main roles are to help break balance cores, tank hard hits, lure and blow holes in bulky grass types that otherwise give this team a headache, and combat the notorious Shedinja stall teams if HP Fire is used. With annoying Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn Amoongus, Garchomp, bulky waters heavily damaged, burned or outright defeated, the other sweepers have a much easier time wrecking shop. It is also a pseudo-pivot due to its deceptive bulk. Energy Ball is an option over HP Fire, as it allows you to defeat the exceedingly rare boosting (Stockpile/Curse) Quagsire, which is the Achilles Heel of this team if there was ever one.

The EV spread gives Manaphy some really solid bulk and makes it very difficult to OHKO. It can survive hits from dangerous sweepers, including Sand Rush Excadrill, most Swift Swimmers, and attack back in an attempt to put them into sweeper range if that’s what it comes down to. The speed investment allows Manaphy to outspeed a lot of common tanks and things like Neutral Base 100s with max speed investment.​

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 374-439 (92.5 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 288-338 (71.2 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 270-320 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 148-175 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery




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Scimitar (Gyarados-Mega) (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Substitute

Mega Gyarados is one of the two Dragon Dance sweepers on the team and is a behemoth. If common checks such as Keldeo and Azumaril are weakened then the opposition has a big problem.

Gyarados plays a variety of roles on the team. Any early game action usually sees it making use of its excellent pre-Mega typing and ability, Intimidate, tactically switching into aggressive Keldeos, Scizors, Lando-Ts and such. I rarely attempt to setup right off the bat unless the opponent has absolutely nothing to stop +1/+1 Gyarados. It is a phenomenal partner for Jirachi, as normal Gyardos can switch into Heatrans, Earthquakes, etc aimed at Jirachi without too much fear of status and hazard damage since Jirachi is able to heal Gyarados for a sweep later on in the game if needed. Of course the most important role it has on the team is to get a DD or two and go to town at the opportune moment.

I elected to go with Substitute + Dual STAB in order to be able to better survive against Rotom-W’s Volt Switch, stall, and status users such as Thunder Wave Clefable, Will-O-Wisp Mew and M-Sabeleye, and Toxic Heatran. Jolly Max Speed allows me to outspeed Mega-Lopunny and Mega-Manectric, two menaces to offense, after a Dragon Dance. It also allows me to get the jump on some of the faster tanks and status-move users.



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Javelin (Zygarde) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 16 HP / 236 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

Zygarde is the second Dragon Dancer and is a formidable threat that is often underprepared for. It brings a lot to the table – bulky Ground, Dragon typing, great dual STAB, the ability to setup, and priority. It has the bulk to survive a variety of threats in the metagame and can dish out surprising damage in return. In fact, it even beats premier tanks such as Lando-T (any version except choice band) and Mega-Venusaur one-on-one if need be.

Adamant max attack was chosen to make use of whatever lackluster, but useable, attack it had. The speed investment allows it to outspeed M-Manectric and M-Lopunny after a Dragon Dance. The rest of the EVs were put in to bolster its already superb bulk.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 135-160 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 102-120 (28.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 156-184 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 127-150 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 151-178 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 145-172 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 166-196 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 284-336 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 177-208 (49 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO



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Trident (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Heart Stamp
- Trick
- Healing Wish

Scarfed Jirachi is the linchpin of the team. It is simply a phenomenal Pokemon for offensive teams, in general. It may never have the flashy setup sweeps that rest of the team can achieve, but it fills a number of vital roles that elevate a group of setup sweepers to the next level. These roles include pivot, cleric, revenge killer, Fairy and Dragon switchin, and even makeshift win condition with its legendary flinchhax BS.

Iron head, with its “60%” (we all know it’s higher) is Jirachi’s notorious bread and butter and gives the opponent another headache to deal with on top of all the offensive pressure. As if abusing flinch hax with one of its STABs wasn’t enough, Jirachi was gifted the ability to abuse flinch hax with its other STAB aka Heart Stamp. With these two moves, Jirachi threatens everything and their moms, including some of the top dogs of OU like Tornadus-T, Keldeo, Neutral +1 CharizardX, Dragon Dancers, Clefable, Mega-Lopunny, Mega-Venusaur, Mega-Pinsir, etc. Trick was chosen over U-Turn as another anti-stall mechanism. Finally, Healing Wish support gives a sweeper of your choice another shot at destroying the enemy. This is incredibly important, as heavy offense is all about chances to setup and sweep. Ideally, a sweeper would have already did damage and wore down its checks and counters before being revitalized with Healing Wish.

Jirachi’s role on this team cannot be overstated.






--=Major Threats=--


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Mega-Gyarados: If I misplay and let this thing get some momentum, it can do some serious damage to my team seeing as how it is resists Bisharp's sucker punch, all of Manaphy's attacks, all of my own Gyarados' attacks, Jirachi's revenge killing attacks, and is bulky enough to tank Zygarde quite well.​



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Quagsire: The bane of many physical setup sweepers, this thing is an asshole that I thought I had covered until I started running into Curse and Stockpile variants. Manaphy, and sometimes Mega-Gyarados if played correctly, can muscle through these variants; and Jirachi can Trick it to cripple it. However, these mofos are often part of a well-built stall team meaning they just switch out.



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Mega-Latias: If this is the bulky Thunder Wave variant, it has the potential to be a major problem if I make a mistake in my planning. This thing is so bulky that it can cripple my Darks while tanking hits, and Zygarde is decimated by Ice Beam.​



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Breloom: A well-played Breloom could do a good amount of damage to my team with Spore and its potent Dual STABs. Caution must be taken when up against this




--=Miscellaneous=--




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This is actually a test account, hence the low GXE. Not that it really matters lol.


Black Jack (Bisharp) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Claymore (Garchomp) (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Trident (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Heart Stamp
- Trick
- Healing Wish

Scimitar (Gyarados-Mega) (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Substitute

Javelin (Zygarde) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 16 HP / 236 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance

Faerie (Manaphy) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 84 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic



I am looking forward to rates and ideas for improvement. Thank you.​
 
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hi,

for a team wish bisharp and mega gyarados, a switch in to keldeo is necessary. It looks like keldeo can kill almost every member of your team 1v1 and regular gyarados gets burned easily and jirachi and manaphy arent great revenge killers. Gyarados is easily pressured with rocks up and your team just seems to get crushed by keldeo.

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Replace zygarde with latios
Latios gives your team a nice check for keldeo along with a dragon type that can help your team get rid of hazards that pressure mega gyarados. Latios helps your team vs manaphy who can be threatening and latios can hp fire ferrothorn and scizor who seem to annoy gyarados and jirachi. Latios gives your team a check for garchomp, mega heracross, and zard y, and all around seems to help your team out more than zygarde. Zygarde was the member I replaced because Garchomp is on the team and provides strong dragon and ground stabs by itself. Latios will give you something to tank burns and switch into rotom-w who could be a bit troublesome. Latios helps yache garchomp handle electric types who would otherwise blow through the team and it gives your team a solid special attacker who has access to defog for removing hazards which will allow your gyarados to come in with full health more often.

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Run RD > HP fire
Latios is running hp fire to hit the ferrothorn and this gives you the great opportunity to run rain dance, this will help you a lot with stall and will allow you to heal off status boost gyarados' stab attacks as well as your own attacks and will let your manaphy be a bit more durable and harder to wear down. Jirachi can also trick ferrothorn on the switch if they are catious of the hp fire which opens up another opportunity for manaphy to put in work and get a late game sweep.

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Run Fire Punch > Trick
Manaphy has great sweeping/wall breaking potential with the rd set as little to nothing fully walls it defensively. This means you dont need to worry as much about having trick to help you handle stall and fat balance. Fire punch seemed to be nice when partnered with hp latios as it can become unexpected and catch people off guard. Fire punch will help out a bit with scizor and will ensure ferrothorn does not become a nuisance.


Hope My Rate can help you :]
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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Heart Stamp
- Iron Head
- Healing Wish

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 84 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Scald
- Psychic

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

 
Since you already have Jirachi to handle Mega Venusaur, I'd say replace Psychic on Manaphy with Energy Ball. Energy Ball can help you with your Mega Gyarados and Quagsire problem, and lure in Rotom-Wash, which can be an annoyance to the team.

Calcs:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 326-384 (98.4 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 464-548 (117.7 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Been playing this team a little, its quite nice. I like the fact it doesn't lose much defensive synergy despite it being heavy offense. If there was one thing i think could be changed, is giving garchomp a lum berry over yache berry, as it can set up and wreck M.sab/ rotom-W leads easier, as opposed to being forced out by mons like weavile with a redundant yache berry anyway. Also you have so many other mons that take care of ice beams from things like starmie. slowbro ect. that also handle the threat that garchomp need not worry about them, at least in my experience with the team so far.

Also Manaphy feels limited with the moves it has. Is HP[Fire] necessary? Ferro seems to get blown back by chomp/bisharp anyway, its has the same power as scald against things like metagross and bisharp, and psychic hits mega venu/ breloom. I think it could benefit from running enerygy ball > HP [fire] letting you +3 against enemy waters too.

Garchomp: Lum Berry > Yache Berry
Manaphy: Energy Ball > Hp[fire]

Anyway, nice team i am really liking it so far!
 
hi,

for a team wish bisharp and mega gyarados, a switch in to keldeo is necessary. It looks like keldeo can kill almost every member of your team 1v1 and regular gyarados gets burned easily and jirachi and manaphy arent great revenge killers. Gyarados is easily pressured with rocks up and your team just seems to get crushed by keldeo.

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Replace zygarde with latios
Latios gives your team a nice check for keldeo along with a dragon type that can help your team get rid of hazards that pressure mega gyarados. Latios helps your team vs manaphy who can be threatening and latios can hp fire ferrothorn and scizor who seem to annoy gyarados and jirachi. Latios gives your team a check for garchomp, mega heracross, and zard y, and all around seems to help your team out more than zygarde. Zygarde was the member I replaced because Garchomp is on the team and provides strong dragon and ground stabs by itself. Latios will give you something to tank burns and switch into rotom-w who could be a bit troublesome. Latios helps yache garchomp handle electric types who would otherwise blow through the team and it gives your team a solid special attacker who has access to defog for removing hazards which will allow your gyarados to come in with full health more often.

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Run RD > HP fire
Latios is running hp fire to hit the ferrothorn and this gives you the great opportunity to run rain dance, this will help you a lot with stall and will allow you to heal off status boost gyarados' stab attacks as well as your own attacks and will let your manaphy be a bit more durable and harder to wear down. Jirachi can also trick ferrothorn on the switch if they are catious of the hp fire which opens up another opportunity for manaphy to put in work and get a late game sweep.

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Run Fire Punch > Trick
Manaphy has great sweeping/wall breaking potential with the rd set as little to nothing fully walls it defensively. This means you dont need to worry as much about having trick to help you handle stall and fat balance. Fire punch seemed to be nice when partnered with hp latios as it can become unexpected and catch people off guard. Fire punch will help out a bit with scizor and will ensure ferrothorn does not become a nuisance.


Hope My Rate can help you :]
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Latios is a pokemon I considered during the initial team building process. My biggest issue with it was that it is no longer considered blazing fast and its best setup set (CM) left a lot to be desired in terms of standalone sweeper, as it is easily revenge killed - not exactly the attribute you want on heavy offense. On any other type of team (most types of team involve more switching) Latios would generally be more useful as a second Dragon type. But Zygarde's Dragon Dance setup, excellent Dual STAB, bulk, and priority bring so much to the table to a team like this that does not rely on checks and counters to serious threats. Zygarde is not scared of dangerous speedy threats like Tornadus T, Scarf Lando T, M-Lopunny and sand Excadrill and even Weavile cannot check without impunity.

HP Fire on Manaphy is also used to combat the Wonder Trio stall and Tangrowth stall, which were very popular when I was laddering. In fact Tangrowth is a beast that could tank many of my pokemon with it's phenomenal physical defense and Regenerator, and is a main reason I replaced Azumaril with HP Fire Manaphy. Loss of key fire coverage in exchange for another turn of setup doesnt sound good on paper to me.

I am not sure about replacing Trick on Jirachi. Tricking a pokemon into a move gives me a potential easy setup, which is, again, vital for heavy offense. Not sure if catching some mildly threatening pokemon like scizor is worth that.

All of that said, your points are valid and perhaps i am a poorer teambuilder than I thought I was. I will definitely test out Latios (although I really am not fond of Defog latios lol - a turn of removing hazards is a turn of doing damage and setting up lost lol) and Rain Dance Manaphy. I will test them out and post results.


yo

So I really like your team man, Zygade is a really underrated threat.

So yeah Mega Gyarados could literally 6-0 you and Mega Latias is very annoying. Breloom is a bit more easy to handle, Spore being the most annoying aspect of it and not having a Grass-type to absorb it. I also see how you literally have 0 switchin's to huge metagame threats and relying more upon offensive pressure to check and pressure things. I like that since you make it work. So my suggestion boils down to Yache Berry > Lum Berry on Zygarde. This is a very helpful feature as it allows you to tank an Ice Beam from Mega Latias and boost from that "free turn" to pressure it out or KO it the next turn with Outrage. With this you could mitigate the Lum Berry to Garchomp so it can have a more free setup against MSableye who will often be sent out to repel your Stealth Rock.

Although I said Gyarados could sweep your team your team has a huge amount of offensive pressure that severely inhibits it. Zygarde at +1 literally blows it back with Outrage so it's incredibly weakened enough that you can pick it off with another teammate it Zygarde were to go down, which it shouldn't due to its large amount of bulk and having Yache Berry if it were to have Ice Fang. I suggest you dump the 16 HP into its Attack STAT as I see no need for it outside of slightly boosting its Attack. Quagsire is a more difficult threat to cover sufficiently and with the lack of an actual Stallbreaker that isn't subject to burns or its high Defense. Well I can't really change much without altering how your team ultimately works. The first option would be to run Taunt > Substitute on Gyarados to prevent it from boosting and healing, but you'd be more susceptible to Scald burns. My other suggest would be to run Energy Ball > Trick on Jirachi. Yes, I know it sounds weird, but its a considerable option as relying on flinching Quagsire to death isn't the best strategy. Energy Ball gives Jirachi a solid 37.5% chance to OHKO it with Energy Ball after Stealth Rock and as said before is a decent lure towards it, with the rest of Stall being brought to its knees by Sub MGyarados.

4- SpA Jirachi Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hope my rate was helpful!

Thanks.

Nice suggestions. You seem to well understand what I was trying to do with this team.I almost chose Lum Berry for Garchomp to begin with, actually. You bring up extremely valid points, especially when facing off against M-Sabeleye - the scenario you describe is almost always the case. I will add Lum Berry as an alternate and I think I'll be running that myself now lol.

Same with Yache Berry Zygarde.

Regarding Quagsire, I'd figure catching a Quagsire with Trick is almost as effective as catching it with an Energy Ball.


Since you already have Jirachi to handle Mega Venusaur, I'd say replace Psychic on Manaphy with Energy Ball. Energy Ball can help you with your Mega Gyarados and Quagsire problem, and lure in Rotom-Wash, which can be an annoyance to the team.

Calcs:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 326-384 (98.4 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 464-548 (117.7 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Energy Ball would be extremely useful on Manaphy. Unfortunately, Psychic on Manaphy is imperative. Jirachi isnt really a way to handle M-Venusaur. Most Mega Venusaurs don't stay in on Jirachi, unfortunately lol. If Energy Ball were to replace anything, it would be HP Fire.

Man, i don't like long answers and i think your team is good enough without my opinion,but i guess zen headbutt > heart stamp on rachi.

Zen Headbutt has lower accuracy and lower chance to flinch, unfortunatley.

Been playing this team a little, its quite nice. I like the fact it doesn't lose much defensive synergy despite it being heavy offense. If there was one thing i think could be changed, is giving garchomp a lum berry over yache berry, as it can set up and wreck M.sab/ rotom-W leads easier, as opposed to being forced out by mons like weavile with a redundant yache berry anyway. Also you have so many other mons that take care of ice beams from things like starmie. slowbro ect. that also handle the threat that garchomp need not worry about them, at least in my experience with the team so far.

Also Manaphy feels limited with the moves it has. Is HP[Fire] necessary? Ferro seems to get blown back by chomp/bisharp anyway, its has the same power as scald against things like metagross and bisharp, and psychic hits mega venu/ breloom. I think it could benefit from running enerygy ball > HP [fire] letting you +3 against enemy waters too.

Garchomp: Lum Berry > Yache Berry
Manaphy: Energy Ball > Hp[fire]

Anyway, nice team i am really liking it so far!

Thanks. Your suggests are extremely valid. HP Fire is for Tangrowth and Shedinja stall. But like I said I added Energy Balla nd Lum Berry in the analysis.
 
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I am not going to tell you to replace any of your pokes. Instead, I could ask you to run this

Zygarde
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
Evs: 200 Hp/252 SpDef/56 Spe
Nature: Careful
-Substitute
-Coil
-Earthquake
-Iron Tail/Dragon Tail

Now with this move set, you have a better chance against opposing M-Gyaradoses and Quagsires. You can make 101 Hp Substitutes so Seismic Toss doesn't break it and the 56 Speed Evs allow you to out speed Bisharp. I gave you the option of Dragon Tail or Iron Tail because Iron Tail can help against Clefable, but Dragon Tail stops the setup. You could also run Iron Tail over Substitute if you want both of those options, but I would advise taking out fairies first, then setting up the sweep after. I gave no attack investment so Foul Play doesn't break the sub, and maximized special defense since you can boost your defense through Coil. Hope I helped.
 
Yo you say that your team has difficulty with Quagsire. With that in mind, have you considered running Grass Knot over SD on Bisharp to lure and eliminate it? With a Naughty nature you're able to not only guarantee that you eliminate Quag with KOff+GK, but you can also guarantee the KO on both Gastro and Seismi with the same combination of attacks, which is useful considering that basically nothing barring Manaphy and pre-lum Zygarde on your team appreciates being burned by Scald. This also frees up the Energy Ball slot on Manaphy so that you no longer have to debate between HP Fire and EBall, which helps with the Ferrothorn matchup nicely.
 
disagree with a lot of the suggestions here. 8 hp is the optial number by the way for the life orb / recoil number which is more useful on this 'mon in particular considering the amount of switches it forces due to its natural bulk. in no way should it be replaced because this team would lack a solid win con against offense otherwise. hidden power [fire] is needed to lure in ferrothorn for gyarados and without it, you find yourself even more weak to it since all you do is cry at your computer screen as it leech seeds everything. energy ball is cute and all, but fire punch is more suitable. more people initially switch skarmory in to jirachi then quagsire. taunt seems nice from the standpoint of beating quagsire, but you don't have to mega considering there is no other possible reasonable mega for this team, so substitute completely eclipses taunt. finally, would highly suggest you implement gamer boy suggestion of grass knot since i feel like it would help you combat the upper ladder much better full of bulky / stall squads.

not knocking off any of your guys suggestions because i see the logic behind them, but considering he posted this, i thought providing input in contrast to high ladder's style of metagame play would be much more beneficial then taking the whole. really like this team n_n
 
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