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Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)
- Thread starter Karxrida
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RBY Virtual Machine mons won't be available for XY/ORAS so this is another point in favor of S/M being Gen 7. What I find strange is all that Mecha-Zygarde hype, plus the fact that it got 4 colors on his chest (including Sun/Moon colors) then. Can Mecha-Zygarde be a Gen 7 legendary? Please no.
Also, Holidays 2016 was too generic, but in other languages (including italian which is mine) the state is more specific and it says "In the end of 2016" so S/M will be released in December
Also, Holidays 2016 was too generic, but in other languages (including italian which is mine) the state is more specific and it says "In the end of 2016" so S/M will be released in December
Is this close enough to Rainbow? Sun and Moon with promised full integration of Gen I? All I can say is that Pokémon was just twenty-four hours short of it's first fully unexpected and fully unanticipated blindside in my memory. It's a shame, that.
Sun and Moon were indicated to have Gen I compatibility through Bank, not directly. This indicates that it's not actually SM that will be compatible with Gen I, but rather, that Bank will be receiving a conversion update around the release of SM to accommodate this, which may mean that XY and ORAS will share this compatibility as well. On Game Freak's part, what's brilliant about this is that by cutting communications to local exclusivity for RGBY, they will first be able to limit the transfer of "Glitch" Pokémon, including Mew and Missingno, among the Gen I games. Following this, they will be able to have Bank filter out said glitch pokémon with a few exceptions, such as an event-marked Mew, effectively cutting off a potential illicit market for Mew off at the knees.
I'm just going to assume, like I'm already assuming the Gen IV remakes will happen eventually, that they plan to re-release GSC in a similar fashion to RGBY, because at this point, Gen II is going to be the only generation without any kind of adaptability whatsoever, and I don't see why they wouldn't re-release them eventually even if this wasn't the case. Because of this assumption, the characteristics that were first defined in Gen II, namely gender and shininess, and even Unown's forms, which were determined by the DVs, could present a potential problem with conversion, in part because they are inherently flawed values.
Just look at Gen II shiny pokémon for a moment. Shiny Gen II VC pokémon would have a major hurdle to overcome when it comes to conversion. If I recall correctly, breeding a shiny in Gen II provided a very large chance that the baby would be shiny as well, and there was a well-known glitch for obtaining a shiny ditto. Just on this alone, Game Freak would have to take one of three paths. First, they could either alter the way shininess is determined, and leave the shiny status as is when the pokémon is transferred over, either from Gen I or Gen II; this would be the most workable option, but I'm not sure that they would go to that extent. Second, if they were to leave the determination as it is, and allow for the shinies to be transferred over, intact, it would only collapse the shiny market for the breedable Gen I and Gen II pokémon. Finally, they could strip the pokémon of it's shiny status, and then give it the same chance of being shiny as any other newly generated pokémon, but this solution has problems of its own, not the least of which stems from the public outcry this would likely cause.
Beyond that headache, I think the conversion process should be fairly straightforward. They could easily just create a new PID for the pokémon to be transferred. This takes care of the nature and ability, and has the added effect of stripping the pokémon of it's item straight up, but leaves the hidden ability for some other qualification. Following this, they could map form and gender, as they would appear in Gen II, to write over to the appropriate locations. For the IVs, they'll most likely generate Special Defense the same way it would be generated for Gen II, before converting and writing them to the appropriate locations as well. The most likely conversion rate I could see would be something along the lines of round(((DV/15)+c)*30), where c is a random number small enough to provide a tipping point between one number or the next, without being entirely transformative in the process.
That's my take on it, at least.
One thing that I haven't seen discussed, however, is the NX. The NX should be available before the holiday season, right? Granted it is important to note that we know next to nothing about either the NX or SM, but if the NX is a hybrid system like it's speculated to be, wouldn't it be poor form for Pokémon, one of Nintendo's top sellers, to not put these new games on the newly released system? Granted, it seems like Pokémon would like to opt for the cell phone route, rather than the home console, but this could still be an indicator of where Sun and Moon sit, generationally speaking.
Sun and Moon were indicated to have Gen I compatibility through Bank, not directly. This indicates that it's not actually SM that will be compatible with Gen I, but rather, that Bank will be receiving a conversion update around the release of SM to accommodate this, which may mean that XY and ORAS will share this compatibility as well. On Game Freak's part, what's brilliant about this is that by cutting communications to local exclusivity for RGBY, they will first be able to limit the transfer of "Glitch" Pokémon, including Mew and Missingno, among the Gen I games. Following this, they will be able to have Bank filter out said glitch pokémon with a few exceptions, such as an event-marked Mew, effectively cutting off a potential illicit market for Mew off at the knees.
I'm just going to assume, like I'm already assuming the Gen IV remakes will happen eventually, that they plan to re-release GSC in a similar fashion to RGBY, because at this point, Gen II is going to be the only generation without any kind of adaptability whatsoever, and I don't see why they wouldn't re-release them eventually even if this wasn't the case. Because of this assumption, the characteristics that were first defined in Gen II, namely gender and shininess, and even Unown's forms, which were determined by the DVs, could present a potential problem with conversion, in part because they are inherently flawed values.
Just look at Gen II shiny pokémon for a moment. Shiny Gen II VC pokémon would have a major hurdle to overcome when it comes to conversion. If I recall correctly, breeding a shiny in Gen II provided a very large chance that the baby would be shiny as well, and there was a well-known glitch for obtaining a shiny ditto. Just on this alone, Game Freak would have to take one of three paths. First, they could either alter the way shininess is determined, and leave the shiny status as is when the pokémon is transferred over, either from Gen I or Gen II; this would be the most workable option, but I'm not sure that they would go to that extent. Second, if they were to leave the determination as it is, and allow for the shinies to be transferred over, intact, it would only collapse the shiny market for the breedable Gen I and Gen II pokémon. Finally, they could strip the pokémon of it's shiny status, and then give it the same chance of being shiny as any other newly generated pokémon, but this solution has problems of its own, not the least of which stems from the public outcry this would likely cause.
Beyond that headache, I think the conversion process should be fairly straightforward. They could easily just create a new PID for the pokémon to be transferred. This takes care of the nature and ability, and has the added effect of stripping the pokémon of it's item straight up, but leaves the hidden ability for some other qualification. Following this, they could map form and gender, as they would appear in Gen II, to write over to the appropriate locations. For the IVs, they'll most likely generate Special Defense the same way it would be generated for Gen II, before converting and writing them to the appropriate locations as well. The most likely conversion rate I could see would be something along the lines of round(((DV/15)+c)*30), where c is a random number small enough to provide a tipping point between one number or the next, without being entirely transformative in the process.
That's my take on it, at least.
One thing that I haven't seen discussed, however, is the NX. The NX should be available before the holiday season, right? Granted it is important to note that we know next to nothing about either the NX or SM, but if the NX is a hybrid system like it's speculated to be, wouldn't it be poor form for Pokémon, one of Nintendo's top sellers, to not put these new games on the newly released system? Granted, it seems like Pokémon would like to opt for the cell phone route, rather than the home console, but this could still be an indicator of where Sun and Moon sit, generationally speaking.
Huh? When was it stated it won't be available for XY?
Business sense says end of Ocotber-Mid November is a safer bet. Wanna have it on the shelves in time to max sales for the holidays.
Am I the only one who couldn't care less about the R/B/Y>Sun/Moon transfer? Give me a way to get my original teams off of my R/B/Y carts, sure, but crappy Pokemon who don't even have any real sentimental value...yay?
Also, to everyone wondering why that's all they're giving us as far as news...remember, Pokemon Day is just kicking off. I'd be shocked if there wasn't more stuff to come throughout the day. Maybe nothing huge, but at least something.
Serebii home
That red-and-black thing which looks vaguely like a face?
No, that's a house. Black wall (or a wall in the shade), red slanted roof, yellow light streaming through the windows. The white stuff at the bottom could be sand or snow.
And right now I'm completely baffled that there apparently is no Pokémon Z. It makes no sense to me. The next games are due December, it seems, which would have left plenty of time for Z to have been released in Oct/Nov 2015. Heck, BW2 was released a little over a year after BW, in October 2012, and XY was revealed in January 2013. That was three months between the release of a game and the announcement of the next, and I remember being slightly abuzz about a new generation so shortly after the previous games. We were all expecting Gen V RSE remakes to be announced when they gave us XY instead.
This time, though... just, what?!? X and Y serve as an excellent foundation for a hypothetical Z game. Z would literally be XY copied over, with a few new locations added, a few new Megas and Formes of some legendary Pokémon (which, mind you, were already revealed), and a few other new bells and whistles. The game was right there, almost finished already due to the existence of XY. XY also left plenty of mysteries, underused locations and story tidbits for Z to expand on. Making Z would have been so easy (comparatively speaking), and there was plenty of time to release it after ORAS but before SM. Why on Earth would they NOT make Z? The new Anime series is named XY&Z, goshdarnit! They even called Movie 19 "Pokémon the Movie XY&Z" for a while.
I used to have theories about Z being delayed, but now it seems it was scrapped entirely. As to why, I have no idea any more. I thought Z was delayed to shorten the post-Z waiting time for Gen VII, which would be on a new console (and the delaying of the NX was what pushed Gen VII back). The alternate hypothesis was that Game Freak would try to squeeze in another generation for the 3DS, chopping Z out of the schedule so the games wouldn't be released too close to another (since then they would compete for attention and drag each others' sales numbers down), but it seems it will be more than two full years between ORAS and SM - plenty of time for Z in between.
Try as I might, I simply can't make sense of the absence of Z. It was as if it was planned to be released (the name of the Anime series, the Zygarde formes, AZ' Floette as an event 'mon, the loose ends in XY), then scrapped at the last minute. There was plenty of time to make it (they got ORAS out in a year after XY, and that required a whole region to be built from scratch). There was plenty of time to release it. The fans were expecting it. Kids would have bought it because Pokémon.
The only fact I can see changing this, in hindsight, is that Game Freak evidently has two teams of developers, one making new games (DP, BW, XY) and the other making follow-ups (Platinum, BW2). Team 1 could have made XY, then went on to work on SM, while team 2 started with ORAS after BW2 was done. This means no people to make Z. However, the studio evidently managed to have three game releases in a generation in Gen III and IV, so that doesn't change much either.
No... just no. No Z makes no sense.
Raffles Hotel, Singapore.
In response to Codraroll
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-date-news-rip-z.3549746/page-27#post-6662349
or conspiracy theory conspiracy theory conspiracy theory
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-date-news-rip-z.3549746/page-27#post-6662349
or conspiracy theory conspiracy theory conspiracy theory
A ton of gen 1 mons will now be able to use reflect.
And Poliwrath now has his mind reader+fissure combo back
And Poliwrath now has his mind reader+fissure combo back
TPCi's press release was pretty explicit about how Sun and Moon are a new generation.
The statement can be found in this Bulbapedia article. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Sun_and_Moon_announced_in_Pokémon_Direct
The statement can be found in this Bulbapedia article. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Sun_and_Moon_announced_in_Pokémon_Direct
I don't know if anyone said this but, if Game Freak did push for Pokémon Z this year, that would mean that they are way too predictable.
I think Game Freak is making itself more unpredictable, and it really shows after Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 was released, a time when everyone was expecting a Ruby and Sapphire remake or Pokémon Gray. No one expected that that "third version" will be two versions. After B2W2, people still expected an RS remake, but Game Freak released Pokémon X and Y. After that, some people already gave up on the idea that an RS remake would still be released. Yet, after that, Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire knocked on our doors.
In my opinion, Game Freak can either scrap the Z version entirely, and just add DLC for the Zygarde forms, or they would release the Z version unexpectedly, may it be before Sun and Moon, or right after it. Worst case, No Pokémon Z, which makes Zygarde Cells and Zygarde Core, or even the existence of Zygarde, illogical.
I think Game Freak is making itself more unpredictable, and it really shows after Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 was released, a time when everyone was expecting a Ruby and Sapphire remake or Pokémon Gray. No one expected that that "third version" will be two versions. After B2W2, people still expected an RS remake, but Game Freak released Pokémon X and Y. After that, some people already gave up on the idea that an RS remake would still be released. Yet, after that, Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire knocked on our doors.
In my opinion, Game Freak can either scrap the Z version entirely, and just add DLC for the Zygarde forms, or they would release the Z version unexpectedly, may it be before Sun and Moon, or right after it. Worst case, No Pokémon Z, which makes Zygarde Cells and Zygarde Core, or even the existence of Zygarde, illogical.
This kind of pisses me off. Jumping right into a gen generation kind of feels like a slap in the face to poor Zygarde. I mean, yes, he could still be given a main role in SM, but I don't see that as likely. ~sigh~
no fountain at all so no
Raffles Hotel, Singapore.
I just wish that, if it's actually based on UK, there will be the way to go through the English Channel and approde on Coumarine City, aka NewRegion+Kalos (in which there will be Zygarde stuff)
What if, maybe, Zygarde's story wasn't meant to be told in Gen VI? What if, like the strange souvenir, it was introduced before it was actually needed? That plays both into GF's goal to be unpredictable, and it enhances the world building and lore of the series. This does call into question the purpose of including the Thousand attacks in X and Y, though. I could pass AZ's Floette off as a potential event that they were holding in reserve, but it is odd that they included those moves, when no one can take advantage of them. Unless they ended up being like Cacophony.
First off alright; officially announced it's a new gen, I agree with Codraroll it's incredibly bizarre
Is it suspicious to anyone at all that it's downright impossible to transfer from RBY to XYORAS, and you specifically can only transfer to Sun/Moon?
I think this could possibly say something about a mechanics change... maybe? Possibly? But then you can also tranfer from XYORAS to Sun/Moon - is this maybe mechanics being translated in the same way RBY > Sun/Moon is being translated?
Is it suspicious to anyone at all that it's downright impossible to transfer from RBY to XYORAS, and you specifically can only transfer to Sun/Moon?
I think this could possibly say something about a mechanics change... maybe? Possibly? But then you can also tranfer from XYORAS to Sun/Moon - is this maybe mechanics being translated in the same way RBY > Sun/Moon is being translated?
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I am hyped for Sun and Moon. I don't think Pokemon Bank is going to be able to tell between a legit Mew and a glitched one since there is no way to tell where Mew was caught. Of course GF has to see this coming so hopefully there will be a legit way to get it. I can say for my personal use, I will be using the glitch to get it in my games.
Maybe Zygarde formes and Volcanion will be released by event guys
There's still hope
There's still hope
Could just be Game Freak being Game Freak and not really "doing" backwards compatibility. Like... The Pokewalker stopping at HGSS. They could have implemented it in BW - yes there are lots of reasons not to but they still could have. Or the various wifi events mid-gen which are only downloadable on the newest games for no clear reason. Or not having Pokemon Transporter access to DPPTHGSS. Or, yes, the lack of an XY patch (even if there's a good reason for that too re downloading to SD cards, but it still hurt). They might simply feel it's not worth the effort when pushing new product. It could be technical difficulties, but I'm gonna go with reduced benefits and/or laziness.
Maybe they are cancelling nature and abilities.
Otherwise, how will the old mons translate into the new game?
It might just be that my hype train is still chugging about, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like this new region would be linked to Kalos somehow. The animation is different, but still similar enough. The fountain thing looks a lot like the stuff about Kalos. Zygarde's role, the locked door in the desert, the train station, and other areas of Kalos are still vastly unexplained or untouched. Also, Magearna is related to Volcanion and Azoth in some big way, almost like Lugia is the master of the Legendary Birds. It all seems tied. Maybe I'm like a lot of us here and dreaming, but I think for right now that this region will be close to Kalos, and Kalos might be a feature there like Johto. I'm hoping anyway. I know it's not a lot of evidence, but it's my thought on why so much is still in the air.
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