Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings

[MaroGod]

I would also like to make a nomination for Klang to C Rank.
It is very outclassed in this meta right now. With its only viable physical moves being its STAB, Return, and Wild Charge, its movepool is extremely shallow. While it does have decent stats, Shift Gear only boosts attack by one stage, so even if it somehow manages to force something out, it is still pretty weak. Having Klang set up to the point where it becomes threatening requires so many free turns. Even with decent bulk with 60/95/85 defenses augmented by Eviolite, it is still destroyed by common mons in this meta, such as Machoke, Golem, Stoutland, Stunfisk, Pawniard, Arbok, Crustle, Gourgeist-XL, and Floatzel and Rotom-F if they Trick/Switcheroo it a choice item. It is also outclassed as a bulky Eviolite steel type by Metang, who has similar bulk and useful support moves such as Stealth Rock and Pursuit. It is also
outclassed as a set-up sweeper by mons such as SD Monferno and DDance Fraxure, who have better abilities, movepools, and Attack. Overall, Klang is extremely outclassed and is just too bad for B-Rank.

252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 194-230 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 208-246 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Klang: 114-134 (35.1 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 72-86 (17 - 20.3%)
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 114-134 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I completely disagree with this Klang is a fantastic and to get this out of the way the comparisons to SD Monferno an DD Fraxure are ridiculous due to the massive differences in typing and use overall.

It is very outclassed in this meta right now. With its only viable physical moves being its STAB, Return, and Wild Charge, its movepool is extremely shallow. While it does have decent stats, Shift Gear only boosts attack by one stage, so even if it somehow manages to force something out, it is still pretty weak. Having Klang set up to the point where it becomes threatening requires so many free turns

Going by the standard set Klang doesn't even use Return or Wild Charge opting for a bulky win-con set with Shift Gear,Gear Grind,Rest,Sleep Talk with its bulk,typing and access to the mentioned eviolite with a spread of 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD Klang is used purely for its defensive prowess and the ability to set-up on multiple pokemon (one of which you actually mention in your "destroyed" list) a pure steel typing is beautiful in PU and allows Klang to support a team by resisting a plethora of offensive types as well as tanking certain neutral hits decently such as Water and Electric types.

Even with decent bulk with 60/95/85 defenses augmented by Eviolite, it is still destroyed by common mons in this meta, such as Machoke, Golem, Stoutland, Stunfisk, Pawniard, Arbok, Crustle, Gourgeist-XL, and Floatzel and Rotom-F if they Trick/Switcheroo it a choice item.

Some of the pokemon you mentioned actually just lose to Klang such as Arbok,Crustle,Rotom-F and Floatzel all either losing or struggling in 1v1 situations, Stoutland is forced to not spam Frustration and if it does is used as set-up fodder (those locked into superpower also are set-up on at -1 attack) Gourgeist-XL doesnt even beat it with Foul Play and eventually just loses once Klang sets up to +4/5.

It is also outclassed as a bulky Eviolite steel type by Metang, who has similar bulk and useful support moves such as Stealth Rock and Pursuit.

Again no, While yes both are fat steels there roles are completely different with both working in a similar placement but for different teams with Klang filling a valuable niche for rockers that dont have the coveted normal resistance like Gabite and Prinplup

If anything Klang is one of the most severely underrated steel types in PU with one of the lowest usages despite its ranking (B rank) im not sure if this is due to issues with splashability or appeal however with recent touch of this mon i have to give credit were it is due with its role compression and sweeping capabilities being very effective in this meta.

 

[GeneralAnnoyance]

Rotom-f S -> A+ / A:
For a while now, i've found that rotom-f is just a lackluster pokemon that can't really be relied upon to give results consistently. Whilst I can admit that I think that bolt-beam coverage is amazing, having will-o / trick as options is just really nice etc, but the main thing that bothers me when using rotom-f is that half the time I use it, I feel like I can't click blizzard. Having to rely on a 70% chance or being forced into a situation which means you have to rely on it is just the worst feelings as a pokemon player and it makes me want to use it less as a result. All players can relate when I say that if you can find a way to win without having to use blizzard, then you'll choose that option rather than using a 70% win chance. So when it comes to metagame trends anyway, due to the rise of regice / articuno / rotom-f anyway, nearly all teams are running ice / electric resists that can check rotom comfortably, stunfisk is usually carrying some sort of coverage to break rotom-f's subs and its gaining even more competition from other pokemon, mainly Regice which in most scenarios I would much prefer using for the simple fact of having a 100% accurate bolt-beam rather than having to use blizzard.

tl;dr blizzard means you don't want to click it half the time for fear of miss, metagame is developing to make rotom-f a lot more neutered and it has a lot of competition from regice which means i would prefer consistency.

I disagree with this nom for quite a few reasons. One being that Rotom is one of those mons that shapes the viability of each playstyle. One may find Rotom to be "lackluster" when playing an offensive playstyle against it because most mons on HO can outspeed and prevent Rotom from getting up a substitute (the point where rotom becomes most lethal). If you were playing, say, a balanced playstyle with Stunfisk, Vullaby, Gourgeist-XL (mons that mostly can't break sub unless compromising their movesets) or even playing with vital balance mons that can't afford to be sacked yet risk staying in to prevent sub (Politoed/Roselia/ect.) you'd find that Rotom is quite efficient at ruining your common cores. So I think it's important to note that depending on your playstyle, you'd definitely be seeing Rotom in a different light than someone who typically plays a different playstyle.

In terms of Blizzard we need to weigh the importance of a 30% miss rate in determining the overall viability of one of the best wall breakers in the tier. Yes, it misses. It misses a lot and often at crucial times where you needed it to hit. But the same can be said about Regice and Focus Blast. It's the exact same situation and we need to hold both to the same standard. Here's an example: Regice Rock Polishes, kills something, and Stoutland comes out at full to revenge. You can't OHKO with Ice beam, so you go for Focus Blast and you miss. Stoutland kills you and you lose because of it. RNG wasn't in your favor but is Regice any less viable as a setup sweeper because it misses a crucial move 30% of the time? That's really for you to decide but I think the accuracy only slightly worsens the mon. In 7 out of 10 other scenarios, you hit that Focus Blast and you won the game. Yes, the chance of missing that move was slightly higher than other moves, but most of the time you are successful and we need to keep that in mind, especially when Rotom's place in S is due to it's numerous other qualities.

I think this nom will ultimately come down to how important you think Blizzard's accuracy is in Rotom being S rank. I don't think it's as important as Teddeh does because typing, ability, Will-o-Wisp statusing, and sub setup are enough of a sell for me to keep it S.

 

[RawMelon]

I agree with everything Teddeh stated and that was my original thinking when I wanted Rotom to stay A+, when Rotom actually hits its moves its easily the best mon in the tier, but due to its tendency to miss and be unreliable A+ is probably a better fit.

 

[5gen]

If you guys are that worried about Rotom-F hitting Blizzard, use Wide Lens

 

[Teddeh]

I disagree with this nom for quite a few reasons. One being that Rotom is one of those mons that shapes the viability of each playstyle. One may find Rotom to be "lackluster" when playing an offensive playstyle against it because most mons on HO can outspeed and prevent Rotom from getting up a substitute (the point where rotom becomes most lethal). If you were playing, say, a balanced playstyle with Stunfisk, Vullaby, Gourgeist-XL (mons that mostly can't break sub unless compromising their movesets) or even playing with vital balance mons that can't afford to be sacked yet risk staying in to prevent sub (Politoed/Roselia/ect.) you'd find that Rotom is quite efficient at ruining your common cores. So I think it's important to note that depending on your playstyle, you'd definitely be seeing Rotom in a different light than someone who typically plays a different playstyle.

In terms of Blizzard we need to weigh the importance of a 30% miss rate in determining the overall viability of one of the best wall breakers in the tier. Yes, it misses. It misses a lot and often at crucial times where you needed it to hit. But the same can be said about Regice and Focus Blast. It's the exact same situation and we need to hold both to the same standard. Here's an example: Regice Rock Polishes, kills something, and Stoutland comes out at full to revenge. You can't OHKO with Ice beam, so you go for Focus Blast and you miss. Stoutland kills you and you lose because of it. RNG wasn't in your favor but is Regice any less viable as a setup sweeper because it misses a crucial move 30% of the time? That's really for you to decide but I think the accuracy only slightly worsens the mon. In 7 out of 10 other scenarios, you hit that Focus Blast and you won the game. Yes, the chance of missing that move was slightly higher than other moves, but most of the time you are successful and we need to keep that in mind, especially when Rotom's place in S is due to it's numerous other qualities.

I think this nom will ultimately come down to how important you think Blizzard's accuracy is in Rotom being S rank. I don't think it's as important as Teddeh does because typing, ability, Will-o-Wisp statusing, and sub setup are enough of a sell for me to keep it S.

My point with comparing rotom-f to regice is that rotom's main selling point is being able to destroy cores with its stab combo, aswell as regice. Bolt-beam is a great offensive move combinations in PU and in most tiers. However, rotom's stab is 70% accurate and is force to run things like hp ice, or can only really spam blizzard when behind a substitute as you have the "if i miss, i'm still protected by a sub" mindset. You can't deny that the tier is finding more and more ways to deal with it, with regice, cryo, chinchou, seaking, rest-talk machoke and without the scarf it's still checked heavily, but you're then dealing with the mindset during a game, not theory mon. During a game, you're working out the best way to win a game in the most reliable fashion, not "7 out of 10 times I will hit my move" because it really doesn't always work that way. To advertise a pokemon like rotom-f as an S rank threat would just be wrong for PU as it's so unreliable with the way it works either with matchup (the other team having multiple checks to it) or with unreliability with its choice of moves. And sure trick / will-o are good, but the defensive typing of rotom is just so bad that it couldn't work for any other set other than offensive, by which its stuck running its stab option of blizzard, or hp ice.

 

[5gen]

Right now I'm on the fence on Rotom-F dropping. There's no doubt it's an influential mon on the tier, but people have gotten used to it and are able to beat it one way or another. Rotom-F has the ability to run multiple sets that are effective (sub-split, sub-wisp and scarf). I feel the fridge is still able to force switches so it can sub up or sub up on certain pokes (i.e Stunfisk) so it can effectively do it's job. Substitute Rotom-F is still easily revenge killed by offensive pokes (like Float, Basc, the Simis, Monf, Machoke etc) if it can't get behind a substitute, which brings me to Scarf Rotom. With Choice Scarf, Rotom is able to outspeed a lot of stuff, and cripple walls using Trick. The main drawback of Scarf Rotom-F is like Teddeh has addressed, using an unreliable STAB move in Blizzard. You may mention T-Bolt and V-Switch, but when you're locked into those moves all you need is an electric immunity to shut Frostom down. Despite these traits, Rotom-F remains a very good poke in the tier and one of the most influential. The fridge has made mons like Chinchou, Seaking, Bulky Machoke, Grumpig and others better.

tl;dr Rotom-F can run a variety of movesets well but the tier has found ways to deal it comfortably. Rotom-F is one of the most influential pokes in the tier which is a part of what makes it S-worthy.

In all honesty the lowest I see it going is the top of A+.

Edit: Rotom-F being part ice makes it more difficult to bring in and also gives it many defensive weaknesses.

 

[balt2253]

a pure steel typing is beautiful in PU and allows Klang to support a team by resisting a plethora of offensive types as well as tanking certain neutral hits decently such as Water and Electric types.

I have to disagree with you there. A pure Steel typing is not that great to PU due to all the Fire, Fighting, and Ground types in the tier, such as Ninetales, Golem, Monferno, Gabite, Stunfisk, Machoke, and Simisear, all of whom can do significant damage to Klang. Since Klang can only run one set (The RestTalk one you mentioned) so it is very easy to prepare for. It is also shut down very easily by Taunt users such as Grumpig and Quilladin who can stop it from setting up and recovering with Rest.

Some of the pokemon you mentioned actually just lose to Klang such as Arbok,Crustle,Rotom-F and Floatzel all either losing or struggling in 1v1 situations

I understand that Arbok and Crustle may not beat Klang in a 1v1 situation, but the point of including Floatzel and Rotom-F in that list was to point out that Klang is slightly overreliant on its Eviolite, and if it loses that and gets locked into Gear Grind by Floatzel and Rotom-F giving it a choice item, it leads to a significant drop in its defenses.

More Calcs:
252+ Atk Monferno Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 168-198 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Monferno: 76-90 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- approx. 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Klang: 180-212 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 58-68 (20.2 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 144-172 (47.8 - 57.1%) -- approx. 90.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 194-230 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. -1 160 HP / 24 Def Eviolite Machoke: 116-140 (34 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 48-56 (14.7 - 17.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Simisear Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Klang: 265-312 (81.7 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simisear: 66-78 (22.6 - 26.8%) -- approx. 8.9% chance to 4HKO

 

[Dundies]

--> A- / A
I mean this should honestly be pretty obvious. The only real downside to Articuno is its quad weakness to Stealth Rock, which it makes up for by never dying and 6-0ing teams at matchup! But seriously, this thing takes like no damage from anything and honestly has 2 Pokemon in the tier that I'd consider counters, those being Metang and Klang, as Rotom-F gets hit by HP Fighting and 2HKOd on switchin while being unable to OHKO with Thunderbolt. Grumpig just loses lol, it gets 3HKOd by Hurricane and Psychic does nothing back. This is obvious enough just posting bc Anty said so.

 

[Anty]

Honestly several B+ to A- mons could switch right now. I think tangela, fraxure (and possibly raichu) could drop, whereas murkrow, dusknoir, (and maybe quilladin and articuno) could easily rise.

Tangela is in a really awkward position right now, as it could possibly be good but ultimately its hard to justify use over Gourgeist, which can take some knock offs and still fully function, importantly improves its matchup vs Machoke and Leafeon, and Quilladin, that has Spikes and other cool support moves. It hasn't really benefitted from any recent meta change (I guess more physical float, though geist/quill also beat it).

Fraxure just isn't as threatening anymore, as DD sets aren't a huge threat to offense with all the great scarfers, and defensive teams can easily take it on with bulkier stuff like Gourgeist. Defensive teams do dislike SD, but locking itself into outrage really leaves it vulnerable to either offensive mons on the teams or stuff like geist it cannot KO. Overall, in theory it has two possible important roles, but it just performs mediocrely.

Ik I mentioned quite a few mons as possible A- rises, but they are all so good with very useful niches. Idk why Murkrow lost hype after gaining a lot recently, as its such a good pursuit user making it pretty useful regardless of the matchup, whether preventing mime from locking into scarf psychic, or weakening gourgeist for leafeon. Additionally its very powerful and has one of the strongest priorities in the tier, and stunfisk (and possibly klang) are the only two that can reliably switch into it when considering its mixed coverage.

Dusknoir's bulk combined with its strength and priority makes it a big threat for any offensive team. Though it lacks a solid ghost-STAB, it has a decent range of coverage with stuff like Rock Slide or even Power Up Punch allowing it to get past it checks or boost through walls. Additionally, it is also a Pursuit user, and its bulk lets it trap stuff like zebby and floatzel which is amazing for offense. Though Dusknoir is a bit matchup variable than krow, being less effective vs really bulky teams, there are a lot of matchups where Dusknoir can fairly easily get a win by threatening the opposing teams offensive pokemon, which imo balances out.

There have already been quite a few posts on articuno but I have nothing to add, and I have already made a post on Quilladin, but I feel it has been less effective recently with players adapting to bulky grass's lately and more hazard removers so I'm not completely convinced for that.

 

[Drangonn.]

I would also like to make a nomination for Klang to C Rank.
It is very outclassed in this meta right now. With its only viable physical moves being its STAB, Return, and Wild Charge, its movepool is extremely shallow. While it does have decent stats, Shift Gear only boosts attack by one stage, so even if it somehow manages to force something out, it is still pretty weak. Having Klang set up to the point where it becomes threatening requires so many free turns. Even with decent bulk with 60/95/85 defenses augmented by Eviolite, it is still destroyed by common mons in this meta, such as Machoke, Golem, Stoutland, Stunfisk, Pawniard, Arbok, Crustle, Gourgeist-XL, and Floatzel and Rotom-F if they Trick/Switcheroo it a choice item. It is also outclassed as a bulky Eviolite steel type by Metang, who has similar bulk and useful support moves such as Stealth Rock and Pursuit. It is also
outclassed as a set-up sweeper by mons such as SD Monferno and DDance Fraxure, who have better abilities, movepools, and Attack. Overall, Klang is extremely outclassed and is just too bad for B-Rank.

252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 194-230 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 208-246 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Stunfisk Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Eviolite Klang: 114-134 (35.1 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 72-86 (17 - 20.3%)
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 114-134 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

No, no, and definetely not.

Yes, it has counters. It's only a pokemon, after all.

I feel like Maro kind of glazed over a point you made about DD Fraxure and SD Monferno. They serve COMPLETELY different purposes. Let's also not forget that Stoutland, Gourgeist-XL, and Rotom-F cannot win vs. Klang 1v1. Klang brings both solid offensive and defensive utility to the table, checking a ton of mons. Fraxure's and Monferno's bulk is average to bad, even.

252 Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Monferno: 147-173 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 142-168 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 338-402 (105.2 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Klang has a lot more setup opportunities that you may think it does. It's not a revelation that super effective moves do a lot of damage to it. Klang is unharmed by a vast amount of the tier, including prominent threats such as Rotom-F and Articuno.

If I may, I'd like to say your argument is similar to another argument I've seen in another tier: That SubCoil Zygarde is outclassed by Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X. They do not do the same thing, again. Klang is an extremely difficult pokemon to beat when set up with all of its counters gone, and with so few steel types in PU, so many frail water-types in PU, and the most prominent electric-types in PU being rather frail, Klang does well enough offensively for its place as a late-game sweeper and win condition.

If anything, the point of Klang is to not force things out. It sets up on so many things, and beats so many things. It does its job well. Keep it in B-/B rank, definetely.

 

[GeneralAnnoyance]

No, no, and definetely not.

Yes, it has counters. It's only a pokemon, after all.

I feel like Maro kind of glazed over a point you made about DD Fraxure and SD Monferno. They serve COMPLETELY different purposes. Let's also not forget that Stoutland, Gourgeist-XL, and Rotom-F cannot win vs. Klang 1v1. Klang brings both solid offensive and defensive utility to the table, checking a ton of mons. Fraxure's and Monferno's bulk is average to bad, even.

252 Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Monferno: 147-173 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Klang: 142-168 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaring: 338-402 (105.2 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Klang has a lot more setup opportunities that you may think it does. It's not a revelation that super effective moves do a lot of damage to it. Klang is unharmed by a vast amount of the tier, including prominent threats such as Rotom-F and Articuno.

If I may, I'd like to say your argument is similar to another argument I've seen in another tier: That SubCoil Zygarde is outclassed by Dragon Dance Mega Charizard X. They do not do the same thing, again. Klang is an extremely difficult pokemon to beat when set up with all of its counters gone, and with so few steel types in PU, so many frail water-types in PU, and the most prominent electric-types in PU being rather frail, Klang does well enough offensively for its place as a late-game sweeper and win condition.

If anything, the point of Klang is to not force things out. It sets up on so many things, and beats so many things. It does its job well. Keep it in B-/B rank, definetely.

I'd just like to point out that Klang doesn't beat Gourgeist-XL, even on switch. Leech seed, foul play, and Klang hitting rest on sleep talk are heavily in Gourgeist's favor.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-365948328

I feel as though klang should drop to B- rather than C, because it's still a decent mon, it just has a lot of problems against some of PUs staple defensive walls and offensive glue mons as well as problems with steel type competition.

 

[MZ]

So we had a decent amount of discussion on Discord yesterday and the general conclusion was in favor of rotom staying S, but I'll reiterate some of those points to drive home the fact that I'm ironically posting while being teddeh's antichrist and the worst person on the planet and not because I actually believe any of this. This won't be a very high effort post because that must mean I have a personal vendetta, just some long winded steam of consciousness thoughts on why I'm not liking this nom too much even though the idea of rotom to the top of A+ isn't that crazy (anything lower is though). I think that's enough haha he hates me humor. I'm gonna tldr every paragraph because stream of consciousness came out so long if you'd rather not read through everything I have to say

Missing is a factor that sucks. That factor is not enough to drop Rotom-F. It still breaks through cores very efficiently, it still puts a lot of pressure on teams, and that itself should not make it drop because people aren't a fan of its reliability. I don't like Blizzard but you really have to look at the positives here of its unique STAB bolt beam shit. Rotom is still a very effective mon, and while this might tip an otherwise 50/50 argument this should not be the sole point in a post in favor of it dropping. Missing sucks but would only tip a fairly even argument not force a great mon down

Regice is not a better mon. I don't think anybody disagrees with this. The idea that it's more consistent ignores the fact that that only applies to blizzard and not anything else. These include things such as rotom-f being a better wallbreaker and the two fitting different roles. Rotom-f has been called more matchup reliant but I wholly disagree. If they have chinchou then you're mostly useless but that's still a passive and somewhat predictable mon. Otherwise rotom will do something. If regice faces off against certain physically biased offensive teams it really does have a hard time and does not like monferno ever. Regice also has to rely on focus blast hits, not to the same extent that rotom has to rely on blizzard but that's certainly something. Now the main reason was basically that "regice can break the same cores as rotom-f but without dumb missing shit". This ignores the fact that you have a mon that fares worse against the best playstyle in the tier by being way slower and that rotom actually breaks down some shit better with split sets. These two mons don't really compete as much as is being suggested and it's more of a detour around the mon than a reason for it to drop. rotom is better than regice and why is this a thing

The idea that metagame trends aren't favoring rotom is also something I just don't agree with. Before I go into that, any trend not favoring rotom also hurts regice because they're checked by like all the same shit so im not sure how one can be on the rise and the other on the decline, maybe something I don't get here but that wasn't really explained. Anyway, the meta has started to see a lot of bulky offense teams. These teams aren't the best playstyle imo but while they're clearly around rotom also puts a lot of pressure on them, just like any mid speed balance breaker, so many of which are really good rn. The idea that people are running tons of checks is also odd simply because that doesn't really exist. Defensive machoke is the only thing which really takes it on and is on the rise, and still isn't a reliable ok rotom is useless now mon at all when u can volt to pig / do like 40% with blizzard / be LO blizzard / rotom + another strong special breaker which the team needs machoke for is a great way to overload. Camerupt is sort of on the rise but then it gets sorta off the rise and in general has proven to be more solid than we thought but not a breakaway star or anything Other than that I don't really see things that stop it on the rise, grumpig has always been good and not a perfect stop, seaking and chinchou got a bit worse and have always been kinda niche, audino doesn't like the extra machoke around. I think that's it? Oh and Rotom is still a top 2 scarfer (don't make me pick between it and mime pls) and has 3 strong af sets in scarf/subwisp/LO split and also subvolt is a p cool set and it has plenty of other random options and none of these have really been getting fucked over recently or anything. Oh, and while a move to break the sub might be more common on stunfisk, simply stunfisk is a mon that rotom can take advantage of and it's on the fall for golem, another thing rotom threatens. Teddeh said that "it's so unreliable with the way it works either with matchup (the other team having multiple checks to it)" and I just really don't see that in playing the metagame. Rotom doesnt have so many checks that most teams have 3 or 4 mons that can switch in and beat it at least once. And if you want to run a ton of slow shit like that, ur back on the BO that loses to NP anything track. Zdrup's post is my example of that. Sure, you can fit a team with Audino+CM clefairy+rest machoke or audino+rest grumpig. Both of those still don't have the most fun with subsplit but fine. That's still not the worst because you have 1. over centralization where it forces teams to fit on multiple big stops just to be a the mon and 2. forcing teams to go into slow defensive mode which is becoming more and more exploitable. I get that a lot of the originating factor of the nom just comes from teddeh not believing me/anty/anybody else who says slow balance is becoming more and more exploitable but that's a legitimate factor in this discussion where the playstyle that handles rotom the best is also being hurt. And rotom fares much better versus offense than lapras/regice, actually having a perfectly fine time unlike some other ice types. The metagame trends described aren't what's driven rotom down and being rock solid against it already forces you into a very specific and worsening archetype

Anyway rotom is a really strong mon that continues to shape the metagame and find its way onto plenty of teams. It's the original and still a driving reason as to why you can't slap on those ice weak cores. It's leagues better than the rest of A+ sans monferno, although the A ranks could really use some reshuffling. The nom still should get consideration and I'm not 100% this is stupid against it but I don't like the reasons of regice and missing and don't really agree with unfavorable metagame trends. Has it become less dominant? Absolutely, that's why it's not the top S rank anymore. I have no problem with it being lower than machoke. But I don't like the way it's being undervalued. Rotom's issues to me, if anything, come from the idea that I now have better go-to things to shit all over BO since there's so many good mons that do that fairly effectively now. But other than that I still find it a pretty premier mon in the metagame.

Also I agree with the first 4 things on anty's list, still neutral on cuno/quill although A is too high for cuno, but klang can fall. I know people really like klang and it's certainly underrated, but only in the sense that people aren't really thinking about it but it can still fall. It's not as splashable as anything else in the rank save gorebyss imo, it does have a number of checks that are legitimately more common, and it doesn't sweep as effectively as it used to. C rank is lol but I don't see why B- isn't fine for this.

Anyway this was way longer than anybody wanted and I certainly won't get a ton of likes for nominating something way too high/low like a trendy dude but hopefully you took what I said into consideration
e: also people saying they called rotom not being S way back when, get over urself lol just because machoke is S now doesnt mean it should've risen 3 metas ago etc etc

 

[Magnemite]

Roselia from A+ to A
Kadabra from A to A-
Gourgeist-XL from A- to A
Klang from B to B-
Articuno from B+ to A-
Dusknoir from B+ to A-

 

[MZ]

I'm only gonna reply to this part of the post because I don't have time to address everything else. Both of the cores I posted have 0 troubles with subsplit rotom. Of course you can say the former doesn't like subsplit rotom+pursuitter but, if we're adding the pursuitter to the viability ranks, there'd be several changes so I'm ignoring this. The latter just goes audino and wishes to clefairy once to set up a cm and then rotom is the one forced out or you can even pass to machoke and, once again, rotom switch. Now I want to address the two points because it shows you didn't even understand my post but decided to talk about me anyway because of reasons:

1. On the first team I changed one move to deal with rotom. Out of the 24 moves on the team, I changed one of the least used ones (taunt on slow pig) to deal with this. On the second, as I said on my post, I didn't even think about dealing with rotom specifically. So yeah, my post clearly supports your argument about "overcentralization". Your "overcentralization" is just changing 1 move or doing nothing, I guess...
2. Forcing? What's forcing? My post was a reply to a previous post arguing rotom-f could easily dismantle passive cores. That's why my post was only about, you guessed it, passive cores. And I wasn't forced to build them, I just wanted to use passive teams and, just like I also like to use typing spam, trappers, ho, balance, etc.

Nah, it'd just mean you read the previous posts before replying to them. Otherwise, why bother replying at all?

Er no, I understand that you think this means you put very little effort into stopping rotom. I just disagree with that. Ignoring changing 1 move or whatever, you're describing 2 very slow teams requiring specific checks, 1 needing 3 specially bulky monsters and the other needing to slot a generally inferior move on grumpig. That sure as hell does't sound like nothing, regardless of how much you consciously thought about what you were doing and what mons it was for. And these can only work on stall teams or extremely slow BO teams which are even worse in the meta right now thanks to the influx of a ton of medium speed strong breakers (and it's not like this is a huge argument but it does suck that the playstyle which handles rotom best is getting worse and worse). So I'm not sure how "I'm fine vs rotom because I have its 3 best non-chinchou checks" translates to "yeah this mon isn't really an issue at all to any team". Sure, you "wanted to build passive teams", that's mighty convenient for you. What if I don't want to build a team with 2-3 very niche checks? Because that's the only argument you provided here. This isn't even an argument in favor of S really as much as saying that your argument that you can easily beat this by running 3 counters isn't really one. That is, at least, how I interpreted your post. If I somehow totally missed the point of "I have 3 counters ez" then let me know. And no, subsplit isn't the biggest issue, but it's not like it's zero threat versus bulky teams.

 

[5gen]

A- to A
I already posted this nom before but it didn't happen so I might as well do it again but better.

Simisage is one of the best offensive grass types in the tier, with access to a variety of moves and the attacking stats to back it up (98/98/101). Sage's versatility is one it's main selling points. It is able to run three sets rather well, them being All out Attacker, Choice Scarf and Nasty Plot. Sage can also run 3 attacks+Grass Whistle, but since I've never used it I'm not going to talk about it. Simisage has the versatility and offensive stats to rise to A in my opinion.

The AoA set is probably the most common, and for good reason. It can function as a wallbreaker and dismantle/weaken opposing teams with Leaf Storm and coverage moves like Knock Off, Gunk Shot and Superpower. With these coverage moves and 98 base attack stats, Simisage can hit a wide range of mons super-effectively hard. Simisage also has base 101 speed, which is a nice speed tier as you outspeed things like Dodrio and anything under. Basically this set is useful at Knocking away items like Eviolites and then using coverage to weaken the other team.

Simisage also has the option of running a Choice Scarf set to be a revenge killer and cleaner on offensive teams. Reaching 496 speed, Simisage can outspeed all of PU and KO frail offensive mons like Floatzel, Rotom-F, and Mr Mime. This set typically runs Seed Bomb, Gunk Shot, Superpower and Knock off which allows it be an effective scarfer. Scarf Simisage has a great matchup versus offensive teams because of their frail nature and how it can hit any mon for at least neutral coverage. Against bulkier teams, Sage has more trouble but nonetheless can still perform it's role as a revenge killer.

Simi Calcs

252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 204-240 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 348-410 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 306-362 (138.4 - 163.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stoutland: 236-278 (75.8 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regice: 214-254 (71 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 244-288 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

the meta has started to see a lot of bulky offense teams. These teams aren't the best playstyle imo but while they're clearly around rotom also puts a lot of pressure on them, just like any mid speed balance breaker, so many of which are really good rn. The idea that people are running tons of checks is also odd simply because that doesn't really exist.

Disregarding the Rotom talk, Megazard mentioned how the meta is shifting to bulky offense. Nasty Plot Simisage takes advantage of these teams because it can literally set up a Nasty Plot and sweep. An example of this is KJ Corp's Big Eater team (Float/Gourg/Machoke/Munchlax/Stunfiskk/Cryogonal). Once Cryo and Float are taken care of, +2 Simisage wins. Simisage is able to get of an NP on usual counters like Tangela or Gourgeist, is something that makes it a threatening set. Nasty Plot Simisage can hit a lot of things hard using STAB Giga Drain (also mitigates LO recoil), Focus Blast and HP Ice.

NP Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-F: 265-312 (109.9 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Giga Drain vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 253-300 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Monferno: 315-370 (117.1 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Simisage: 352-415 (120.9 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 161-190 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Giga Drain vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Grumpig: 242-286 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 442-523 (107.8 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Stunfisk: 265-315 (62.7 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 265-312 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Bouffalant: 385-455 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 153-182 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 380-447 (113.7 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 354-419 (94.6 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Simisage Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 72+ SpD Altaria: 234-276 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I feel Simisage should rise to A because of it's versatility and power. Sage can run multiple sets that fair well vs any playstyle. It can adapt to the meta and change it's sets accordingly (NP Sage vs Bulky Offense). Simisage has the coverage and offensive stats to back it up, enough so to be an A ranked mon imo.

 

[MZ]

I do not need those cores to deal with rotom, no one does..

How do you go all elitist on my points where I just don't understand and then totally ignore what I'm saying about of course you handle it fine when you have 3 counters to say "well I don't need all these mons to stop rotom". Like you spent all your time saying how I missed the point and never actually responding to what I said about the mon. If you need to stack 2-3 counters and formulate your team around one particular thing, a team which is now going to be more fucked over by other things, that's a huge problem for the playstyle that supposedly handles it best. And if I'm truly missing your point, maybe tell me instead of ranting about how I'm so fucking ignorant without explaining why you're correct? Because I still don't understand why slotting on the same exact damn mons every time because that's the only way you're beating rotom isn't a problem. And hell, if bulky offense does deal with it so easily I'd still support it for S, but that's not what I'm reading here. But my bad, there's absolutely nothing to read into about rotom's meta presence with every slow team having 2 of audino clefairy grumpig chinchou. Believe me, I'd love to understand your point. But maybe you could just explain it instead of getting so pissed that I responded and dragging this out over several responses?

e: and if you don't want responses, don't make such a mad post that of course I have to respond

 

[tehy]

I think Megazard is saying that, in order to take on those teams, you have to add a lot of stall to your team

and Zdrup is saying that's fine because my stall teams had plenty of stall on them already

am i right?

btw, Seaking is don tier so rotom-f might have to take a hike down to A+.

 

[5gen]

I already posted about Basculin before but in my opinion this needs more awareness. I think Basculin isn't getting the recognition it deserves by sitting in B.

B to B+

Here is a mon that has gotten better with the meta shifting to bulkier teams and Crustle dropping. What sets Basculin apart from other other water types is it's ability Adaptability, doubling the power of Basc's STABs. There are two sets Basculin can run well (CB and LO Mixed) and one niche one which is pretty fun (Anti-Lead).

Choice Band: Coming off base 92 Atk, a Choice Band gives Basculin's already strong attacks even more power. Adaptability boosted moves like Waterfall and Aqua Jet give Basculin wall breaking capabilities second to Adamant LO Kingler in terms of physical waters. It also has access to Superpower and Zen Headbutt, coverage moves able to nail stuff like Stoutland, Bouffalant, Roselia and Machoke. Sitting at a speed tier just shy of 100 (base Spe 98) CB Basc can deal heavy damage to medium speed bulky teams and even frail HO teams.

LO Mixed: Possibly the best Basculin set, LO Mixed gives Basc the ability to switch up moves and lure grass types with Ice Beam. In literally every game I have used this Basculin set, it did not disappoint. Adaptability Waterfall and Aqua Jet bring solid power and priority. Zen Headbutt/Superpower are coverage that hit normals, steels, poisons and fighting types. The last slot is Ice Beam which acts as a lure for grass types that think they can wall Basculin like Gourg or Tangela. LO Mixed Basculin is good at weakening opposing teams, breaking/denting things early game, revenge killing and keeping pressure on the opponent.

Anti-Lead: A cool set brought up by Bassie! in the Effective Creative & Underrated Sets v2 thread (don't know how to link it). Anti-Lead Basculin is a rather cool option for countering leads. The set runs max SpA, max Spe and Surf/Ice Beam/HP Grass/Taunt. This Anti-Lead Basc set beats leads such as Golem, Crustle and Relicanth due to Mold Breaker OHKOing em through Sturdy.

Overall I feel Basculin deserves to be B+. It is one the best physical waters in PU as it is only behind Adamant LO/Plate Kingler in terms of STAB power. Basc has the moves, speed and power to perform it's role as a wall-breaker and revenge killer really well. It can put in work regardless of matchup, which means it's never dead weight. You may say just use Float as your physical water, but Float doesn't match it's STAB power or coverage moves (Superpower and Zen Headbutt are better than Return and Low Kick). However Floatzel does have the better speed and Ice Punch.

252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 160 HP / 24 Def Eviolite Machoke: 145-172 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Splash Plate Kingler Crabhammer vs. 160 HP / 24 Def Eviolite Machoke: 186-220 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Basculin Waterfall vs. 160 HP / 24 Def Eviolite Machoke: 156-185 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO

 

[Yosp]

Electrode from -A to the bottom of B+

Let it be known that one thing that all players agree on is that Electrode's main niche is its incredible speed, bringing it to being the second most fastest Pokemon in the tier, for this however Electrode sacrifices a more diverse movepool that most electric types in the tier can offer. Be it a move like Focus Blast, Overheat or the general sense of bulk other electric Pokemon in the tier give. Floatzel is outsped by Zebstrika, which doesn't let Electrode shine at all. There are better weather setters in the tier like Volbeat, Relicanth for Rain which can also set up SRs, and others. Honestly the only main argument is that it can provide a fast Taunt. I for one, would not waste a slot specially on an electric type just to use the move Taunt. There are Pokemon like Misdreavus that can provide Taunt and do more as it is. The meta is getting bulkier and there's just not a lot of room for Pokemon like Electrode to shine so much as it probably did in the past.

 

[MaroGod]

Swanna to A-
Surprised no one has nommed this on as of late considering how hyped its been in recent weeks, a little much some times, but for those who have been sleeping under a rock Swanna has become one of the go too defoggers of choice as of late especially its defensive set for its ability to handle Monferno and most Machoke variants. Both its offensive and defensive spreads as of late i have found to be quite effective in terms of meta with its offensive sets (offensive defogger/SubRoost) able to handle most team archetypes with its deadly Water+Flying stab combo and ability to straight up force so many Pokemon out due to how valuable they tend to be (Monferno,Machoke,Leafeon and Gourgeist-XL to name a few) this allows it to pair well with other offensive and defensive Pokemon that tend to lure in such Pokemon.

Its defensive set, aka discount Pelipper, has shown to be an effective set lately as previously mentioned for its main attributes however also has other points over its competition mainly being Prinplup/Lumineon the most obvious upside being its speed and again stab combination of Scald+Hurricane don't use Air Slash trading the majority of its speed and power to focus on its defensive+defogging capabilities with this set in particular being much more capable to continuously defog through out a game.

Despite some short comings as most Pokemon always will have Swanna has shown to shine so far and is looking more and more like it deserves this rise.

>

Lopunny to C/Furfrou to C-
Whilst doing my daily look through of the lower ranks searching for any untapped potential i decided to take a stab at Furfrou on paper the qualities it brings are rather nice with a straight and easy to use role of a supportive offensive pivot however in use i found myself getting more and more underwhelmed by it finding less and less reason why i would ever want to use this over the other Pokemon i suggest it changes ranks with being Lopunny.

Furfrou, It brings to the table a good speed tier (base 102 above the Simi Trio) reasonable power (base 80 Atk) and a unique variety of moves in one Pokemon sharing attributes between multiple normal types being Purugly and Lopunny being Thunder Wave,Sucker Punch and U-Turn while also carrying some fairly decent bulk for a purely offensive role mostly due to Fur Coat. However its lack of coverage along with few opportunities to switch into the battle are what do it for me while its role somewhat makes this reasonable the amount of chip damage,fear of status and lack of power are what do it for me.

Lopunny, While being weaker then Furfrou (base 76 Atk) possess a combination of other unique and valuable qualities the most notable being High Jump Kick and Healing Wish which just are so much better over what Furfrou posses in pivot/priority and the reason i say only these two points is due to the fact Lopunny has the ability to also use Thunder Wave but also Klutz+Flame Orb to burn a target for other team mates. What truly makes it stand out is that Healing Wish which is just so much better then Thunder Wave support giving another Pokemon basically a second chance in a battle once Lopunny has filled all its requirements through a battle while you can use just another more reliable pokemon for whatever Thunder Wave purpose you wanted Stunfisk.

Even if these are both low ranked and not a priority by any means it just doesn't sit right to label Furfrou as being more viable then Lopunny with how little the dog brings compared to the bunny.

Hypno to C-There isn't a whole lot i can put into this post that isn't obvious so apologies if this comes off somewhat short, So to put it in few words Hypno is the definition of underwhelming despite the unique option and qualities it brings (Psychic Typing+Wish and Baton Pass) its lack of resistances,reliance on WishTect and absurd passiveness keep it from being at all notable compared to using Audino (far superior Wish passer) and another bulky Psychic-Type like Grumpig,Metang,Solrock,Beheeyem. Hypno just lacks a lot currently and although i possibly am giving it too little credit it just doesn't hold up to what its appealing capabilities could of gave.

Trapinch to B-This could seem like a rather random nomination but Trapinch has continued to cement itself as a very capable Pokemon with arguably the most unique niche out of all PU Pokemon, The Ant-Lion Pokemon has shown to be a very capable trapper taking out most Electric-Types,Psychic-Types and able to whittle down walls with ToxicTect which recently has shown to be more useful for its crippling purposes.

Trapinch has even shown to be capable on bulkier teams for the prior mentioned ToxicTect as well as take out the occasional Stunfisk,Grumpig,Probopass and other pokemon with its powerful STAB EQ even if un-invested, While Trapinch can struggle against teams were its niche is not exactly valued its still capable of putting in some sort of work which is something that i see many people forget. Overall the little monster deserves a rise i feel despite any short comings.

 

[Kaboom]

Electrode from -A to the bottom of B+

Let it be known that one thing that all players agree on is that Electrode's main niche is its incredible speed, bringing it to being the second most fastest Pokemon in the tier, for this however Electrode sacrifices a more diverse movepool that most electric types in the tier can offer. Be it a move like Focus Blast, Overheat or the general sense of bulk other electric Pokemon in the tier give. Floatzel is outsped by Zebstrika, which doesn't let Electrode shine at all. There are better weather setters in the tier like Volbeat, Relicanth for Rain which can also set up SRs, and others. Honestly the only main argument is that it can provide a fast Taunt. I for one, would not waste a slot specially on an electric type just to use the move Taunt. There are Pokemon like Misdreavus that can provide Taunt and do more as it is. The meta is getting bulkier and there's just not a lot of room for Pokemon like Electrode to shine so much as it probably did in the past.

I feel like this too drastic of a drop and there was oversight on a few traits electrode possess over other electrics. Starting with your first point speed is definitely one of the things about Electrode that set it apart from other electrics, having the ability to revenge kill mons such as huntail/gorebyss and Fraxure after the have set up, or it can increase its damage output with modest. This makes it one the third 4th strongest electric type while being the fastest unboosted. Its bulk is also better than zebstrika, raichu, and uneviolite-boosted electabuzz so it isn't exactly the frailest thing. I agree it has little place on a rain team and zeb is a bit of competition but, soundproof and taunt are not to be underestimated as this allows electrode to really be a pest and supporter for offense. Electrode is a perfect counter for chatot because of the former and taunt creates set up opportunities off of a sack or keep SR off the field after a golem takes an hp ice. This differs from how overheat can turn zeb into set up bait for Monferno and basically any mon that can tank a -2 STAB well. For these reasons I'd like to make my own nomination Electrode to drop below tangela in A-. I do agree with majority of your points and your intent but I just wanted to clarify some passed over qualities.

 

[pancake]

I will also be posting about Swanna to A- (MaroGod sniped me D:).

Swanna has become not just one of my favorite Pokemon in the tier, but many others' as well. This is due to its versatility.

Due to its high speed and access to Roost, this Defog set has become one of the most reliable Defoggers in the metagame. Also, I'm finding more and more that teams don't have switch-ins to its duo of Scald and Hurricane. Many pokes can switch-in to one of these moves, but not the other, especially LO Hurricane. It's an amazing check to some of the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame, such as Monferno, Machoke, and Gourgeist-Super.

The defensive set as an even more amazing and reliable Defogger, even if it isn't as much of an offensive presence (for obvious reasons). Instead of checking these pokes, instead it just counters them, and it does a lot of the same things that the offensive set does well too, like having very good coverage, etc.

Overall, I think due to Swanna's high speed, versatility, reliability as a defogger, recovery, good coverage in Hurricane + Scald, and ability to check/counter many of the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame, it should be moved up to mid-A--rank.

(Sorry if this sounds like Maro's post, I was composing this, went somewhere, and when I came back he posted).

 

[Yosp]

I feel like this too drastic of a drop and there was oversight on a few traits electrode possess over other electrics. Starting with your first point speed is definitely one of the things about Electrode that set it apart from other electrics, having the ability to revenge kill mons such as huntail/gorebyss and Fraxure after the have set up, or it can increase its damage output with modest. This makes it one the third 4th strongest electric type while being the fastest unboosted. Its bulk is also better than zebstrika, raichu, and uneviolite-boosted electabuzz so it isn't exactly the frailest thing. I agree it has little place on a rain team and zeb is a bit of competition but, soundproof and taunt are not to be underestimated as this allows electrode to really be a pest and supporter for offense. Electrode is a perfect counter for chatot because of the former and taunt creates set up opportunities off of a sack or keep SR off the field after a golem takes an hp ice. This differs from how overheat can turn zeb into set up bait for Monferno and basically any mon that can tank a -2 STAB well. For these reasons I'd like to make my own nomination Electrode to drop below tangela in A-. I do agree with majority of your points and your intent but I just wanted to clarify some passed over qualities.

First off, I don't understand why dropping Electrode from A- to B+ would be considered a "drastic drop" in any way. After analyzing your points I have found a few flaws. Let it be noted that Electrode only outspeeds either Huntail or Gorebyss after they've set up with Shell Smash with the given spread of 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe with a Timid nature which is not even standard, this however is too much to sacrifice as Electrode needs all the power invested possible to hit other opponents harder, I won't be counting Huntail bescause it nearly 2HKOs with Sucker Punch and leaves Electrode to die off recoil from Life Orb because we're mainly talking about speed. Moving on to Chatot, there are a lot more things that counter Chatot from Soundproof Mr. Mime to the more recently hyped SpD Golem which are now running around on most teams. Like I noted before, if I wanted a fast Taunt I would use a Pokemon like Misdreavus for the job and not waste my slot on Electrode. In conclusion, I'm not saying Electrode is unusable because there are other good fast electric-type Pokemon in the tier, I'm only saying that right now it faces competition with other Electric-type Pokemon as well and it doesn't appreciate where the meta is shifting right now.

 

[MZ]

So I'm not really concerned with a bit of a trode drop or not but I have a few thoughts on that. First of all, there isn't much reason to at least run max modest electrode right now because 36 HP or whatever doesnt do much and now you beat smash crustle by like 1 point. Huntail's sucker does a ton and lol gorebyss, I just wouldnt go timid because at that point ur just weak. Also chatot is a goddamn monster, similarly to mime NP specs and scarf are all really fun sets and I wouldnt mind seeing it go higher in A, it's not on mime level because of a few key differences but holy shit just "easily handling chatot no worries" isn't always that easy especially if you're running some heavy offense that doesn't want to fit on a slow dusknoir to let machoke in, so having that soundproof can be pretty nice rather than zebstrika's chosen immunity depending on the build. It also has taunt which makes it a much more solid disruptor than zebra rn since bulkier teams cant just go directly to clefairy or something and easily recover off anything, it's honestly surprising how much you end up using taunt and the only real drawback is not hitting leafeon as well. These are all things that trode has over zebra which should definitely be considered, and while it's the worse mon I've found that wanting something a little more disruptive, a little better off vs chatot, able to outspeed opposing zebstrika is often something I want on my teams where I can justify using electrode.

 

[MorgothSauron]

Regice from A to A+

Regices's most obvious feature is it's huge special bulk, which is the main reason for the change. However, it also has decent physical bulk. Its moveset can also make it extremely useful. It can hit decently hard with ice beam, have a slot for either focus blast for coverage, or as I have done, toxic to wear down bulky opponents, and then rest and sleep talk to restore health and counter statuses. It doesn't seem like much, but clear body can actually save it from occasional stat drops that could be a problem.
Regice is easily countered by most top physical attackers, but the special attackers can barely touch it without boosts. Even focus blast can't two-hit KO from top threats. The only Pokemon who can outstall the rest set are Lickilicky and Grumpig, both of whom can be countered by similar Pokemon. Regice is not without counters, but it can reliably shut down practically any special sweeper, even with type weaknesses.