Can mafia contact outside of game? Also does transporter die upon targetting vegeta, both as a target to be transported or as a teleportation destination? Those were the two biggest concerns iirc.
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NOC Dragon Ball Z NOC - Day 4
- Thread starter jumpluff
- Start date
- Status
it is time to build a wall and make the nazi mods pay for it
UncleSam - this man has never been mafia in a NOC, rngesus beware
In an unexpected move he completely ignores my vote on him except a "isn't yeti so qt" like. Where is the defensiveness I am used to? Where is the "I am 100% town" proclamation I am used to? Maybe his NOC strategy software got upgraded since the last.
Instead he immediately jumps onto "let's have 2 people claim" which I mean I see Blazade's math shows it does marginally increase the chances of crossfire, but, I also think having the unkillable villagers claim just means the mafia has an easier time finding the vig, doctor, etc. They will know 4 members of the game from their role PM and then Vegeta and w/e tf else that BPV was bringing it up to 6 people they know are not the vig, doc, etc. I feel like this makes it easier for them to track these roles down based on how people interact. Someone skittish about targeting Vegeta may be a power role for instance and they could seize that opportunity to kill one off.
Additionally his desire to have 2 "clean people" guiding the town is the most un-Sam thing I have ever seen. Sam's NOC play is a boisterous "I know I am town, you all should too, listen to me" which leads to a mislynch on noobtown every game, but still. He also doesn't trust/give a rip about anyone's opinions but his own because he thinks his reads are by far the best and anyone who questions them or disagrees is scum. I find it extremely peculiar he now suddenly wants other people to be the voice of reason for the town.
It's ALMOST like he knows he is not town and thus does not trust himself to give town reads like he does when he is town, thus he needs to put some townies into power that he can have buddied into being the clean "leaders" and earn their favor.
He also seems to be asking a lot of question about mafia/mafia roles (can they PM each other during the day when I feel like the assumption must be made they have a daychat in their role PM convo together) as if he wants to look a lot more clueless about the mafia than he really is.
Also on a related note I feel like the mafia can't be counted in 4 village claims otherwise they technically could be the four claims... if two of them claim Vegeta and BPV and then two more claim w/e tf they want, there can be no village CCs.
I agree with him that the 'weaker' roles should not claim even if they're being mislynched since those claims need to be saved for better village roles or ones that cannot be fooled by the framer etc, until those scum roles die. I don't think I as yet support Vegeta/Buu claiming today. I think the vig would want to claim if being mislynched. If the tracker/watcher get a reliable bad result then it would be very useful for them to claim if a slot is still available as well which is part of why I am not 100% about using 2 of those claims today for roles that will just become untargetable.
OTOH I would nooooot at alllllllllll be surprised if Sam is 1 of the 2 roles he wants to pubclaim and is just wanting everyone to agree he should pubclaim so he can go I'M 100% VILLAGE LISTEN TO MEEEEEE. Yeah okay kid I'll listen to you when you don't mislynch vanillas D1.
He sounds more like his usual overly bossy and demanding self on page 3 than he did on page 1 especially and sort of page 2. I leave my vote on him.
LightWolf
He is arguing with Sam as expected, they will never agree and will probably derail the thread arguing amongst themselves like Celever has done in many a game.
I don't particularly find anything suspicious about his behavior yet. Sam will call his differing opinions anti-town and accuse LW of being scum for not seeing things the same as him which ultimately is useless blather as an accusation. We need to see more wallposts from LW to weed through his eastern European communist manifestos and find the truth about his allegiances.
It would be 100/10 tier kek if Sam/LW were the androids together. They would absolutely never get a kill off and would try to bus each other to death so they could work independently. If one flips android the other is too lmao.
Blazade
He's like a more sensible Sam in that he isn't so aggro and abrasive but will also make very firm posts. Seems to be doing some numbers work etc.
His defense to Sam's bossyvote on him is if he was mafia, he would be sucking Sam's dick. I find this to be a bit of an odd response because there is the possibility Blazade and Sam could BOTH be mafia or Sam could be neut and thus sucking up to him as mafia!Blazade wouldn't gain much favor because Sam wouldn't be town. Not to mention I see no need to suck up to Sam unless you are afraid he CAN (mis)lynch you. I have absolutely no fear he'd be able to mislynch me and I'd love to see him try because it would reveal him as scum to have pushed so hard on a villager - ultimately a good trade for the village. Idk Blazade's response almost implies he might actually be mafia and knows Sam isn't, which means Blazade is going to act unfriendly to Sam when he thinks the right play would be to suck up to Sam.
He seems to be a sensible poster, however.
I would like to see some more posts from jalmont, rssp1 and Blue_Tornado. Each has done some "town friendly" thing by asking a question or encouraging votes or what have you but I want to see some more insight from them.
King_
Doesn't like TIK voting Sam. How interesting.
UncleSam - this man has never been mafia in a NOC, rngesus beware
In an unexpected move he completely ignores my vote on him except a "isn't yeti so qt" like. Where is the defensiveness I am used to? Where is the "I am 100% town" proclamation I am used to? Maybe his NOC strategy software got upgraded since the last.
Instead he immediately jumps onto "let's have 2 people claim" which I mean I see Blazade's math shows it does marginally increase the chances of crossfire, but, I also think having the unkillable villagers claim just means the mafia has an easier time finding the vig, doctor, etc. They will know 4 members of the game from their role PM and then Vegeta and w/e tf else that BPV was bringing it up to 6 people they know are not the vig, doc, etc. I feel like this makes it easier for them to track these roles down based on how people interact. Someone skittish about targeting Vegeta may be a power role for instance and they could seize that opportunity to kill one off.
Additionally his desire to have 2 "clean people" guiding the town is the most un-Sam thing I have ever seen. Sam's NOC play is a boisterous "I know I am town, you all should too, listen to me" which leads to a mislynch on noobtown every game, but still. He also doesn't trust/give a rip about anyone's opinions but his own because he thinks his reads are by far the best and anyone who questions them or disagrees is scum. I find it extremely peculiar he now suddenly wants other people to be the voice of reason for the town.
It's ALMOST like he knows he is not town and thus does not trust himself to give town reads like he does when he is town, thus he needs to put some townies into power that he can have buddied into being the clean "leaders" and earn their favor.
He also seems to be asking a lot of question about mafia/mafia roles (can they PM each other during the day when I feel like the assumption must be made they have a daychat in their role PM convo together) as if he wants to look a lot more clueless about the mafia than he really is.
Also on a related note I feel like the mafia can't be counted in 4 village claims otherwise they technically could be the four claims... if two of them claim Vegeta and BPV and then two more claim w/e tf they want, there can be no village CCs.
I agree with him that the 'weaker' roles should not claim even if they're being mislynched since those claims need to be saved for better village roles or ones that cannot be fooled by the framer etc, until those scum roles die. I don't think I as yet support Vegeta/Buu claiming today. I think the vig would want to claim if being mislynched. If the tracker/watcher get a reliable bad result then it would be very useful for them to claim if a slot is still available as well which is part of why I am not 100% about using 2 of those claims today for roles that will just become untargetable.
OTOH I would nooooot at alllllllllll be surprised if Sam is 1 of the 2 roles he wants to pubclaim and is just wanting everyone to agree he should pubclaim so he can go I'M 100% VILLAGE LISTEN TO MEEEEEE. Yeah okay kid I'll listen to you when you don't mislynch vanillas D1.
He sounds more like his usual overly bossy and demanding self on page 3 than he did on page 1 especially and sort of page 2. I leave my vote on him.
LightWolf
He is arguing with Sam as expected, they will never agree and will probably derail the thread arguing amongst themselves like Celever has done in many a game.
I don't particularly find anything suspicious about his behavior yet. Sam will call his differing opinions anti-town and accuse LW of being scum for not seeing things the same as him which ultimately is useless blather as an accusation. We need to see more wallposts from LW to weed through his eastern European communist manifestos and find the truth about his allegiances.
It would be 100/10 tier kek if Sam/LW were the androids together. They would absolutely never get a kill off and would try to bus each other to death so they could work independently. If one flips android the other is too lmao.
Blazade
He's like a more sensible Sam in that he isn't so aggro and abrasive but will also make very firm posts. Seems to be doing some numbers work etc.
His defense to Sam's bossyvote on him is if he was mafia, he would be sucking Sam's dick. I find this to be a bit of an odd response because there is the possibility Blazade and Sam could BOTH be mafia or Sam could be neut and thus sucking up to him as mafia!Blazade wouldn't gain much favor because Sam wouldn't be town. Not to mention I see no need to suck up to Sam unless you are afraid he CAN (mis)lynch you. I have absolutely no fear he'd be able to mislynch me and I'd love to see him try because it would reveal him as scum to have pushed so hard on a villager - ultimately a good trade for the village. Idk Blazade's response almost implies he might actually be mafia and knows Sam isn't, which means Blazade is going to act unfriendly to Sam when he thinks the right play would be to suck up to Sam.
He seems to be a sensible poster, however.
I would like to see some more posts from jalmont, rssp1 and Blue_Tornado. Each has done some "town friendly" thing by asking a question or encouraging votes or what have you but I want to see some more insight from them.
King_
Doesn't like TIK voting Sam. How interesting.
I mostly made that comment because I wouldn't want to be drawing attention to myself by publicly contending with Sam simply to push my own "anti-town agenda" through his activation energy, but rather seeing how I could use Sam's plan and pushiness to better align with my own goals. I'll refrain from making comments like that in the future because if I'm self aware enough to make them, I'm self aware enough to make it and also do the exact opposite. Mostly I was shocked that Sam would cast shade in multiple posts just because I had the kahones to disagree with him.
Sam wanting to prop a leader up to buddy was an intuition I had, but I think he does that as either alignment once he realizes there's an easy role to clear.
Sam wanting to prop a leader up to buddy was an intuition I had, but I think he does that as either alignment once he realizes there's an easy role to clear.
Alternatively this isn't a true NOC in that we have real tools to work with instead of randlynching, and so I'm not buying wallposts of reads > content-driven discussion regarding roles. I always focus on roles in every game.
That being said I did find Blazade's post super weird when he was like 'I'd be sucking up to you if I was mafia', that was a very odd thing to say.
I was mostly trolling when I called him and LW mafia earlier (like seriously?), LW responded with more inane drivel which is expected but Blazade responded pretty defensively, interesting response there.
Plus I obviously think both are encouraging a strategy that is super anti-town (they don't seem to care about the possibility literal multiple village roles could die targeting Vegeta, which seems super weird tbh, I'd expect paranoid LW to want to avoid that at all costs if he were town), but I'm not convinced that either is coming at it from a truly anti-town perspective as of yet. Blazade is however acting a bit strangely outside of that, so in as much as anyone's going to discuss non-role related stuff I'd like opinions on Blazade's "I'd suck up to you" stance: do you buy that? Or does that also strike you as odd.
Also yw for providing fodder for discussion for the tenth NOC in a row. I swear no one else ever gets things started if I don't do it myself.
I agree with Blazade and LW that no one except Vegeta should claim until some future point in time, or else we lynch them. I obviously disagree in that I think Vegeta would truly have to have zero regard for the village if he/she doesn't claim sooner rather than later and most certainly at some point today.
Also Blazade's complaints about my formmatting are odd, in that it's literally meant to give that post structure and make it more readable than a Wall of Text. Curious that Blazade objects to that as well, and refuses to talk much about that post (same with LW to a lesser extent, though I can at least see his point that we don't NEED to decide on things now, I just wanted to see what people thought and get some real discussion going so that when I die before the real meat of the actions discussion happens the village isn't just blinded by some dumb wall LW posts if LW ends up being mafia).
And no I'm not super interested in following the village leader system, I want a clear for my own and all the villagers' sake in discussing actions and the rest of the game. Initial information helps the village way more than the mafia in almost all cases because it provides villagers with a framework to look at discussion via, whereas the mafia already have that obviously.
Unvote
Vote Da Letter El
Don't idle like last NOC or else I'll think you're mafia X_X
That being said I did find Blazade's post super weird when he was like 'I'd be sucking up to you if I was mafia', that was a very odd thing to say.
I was mostly trolling when I called him and LW mafia earlier (like seriously?), LW responded with more inane drivel which is expected but Blazade responded pretty defensively, interesting response there.
Plus I obviously think both are encouraging a strategy that is super anti-town (they don't seem to care about the possibility literal multiple village roles could die targeting Vegeta, which seems super weird tbh, I'd expect paranoid LW to want to avoid that at all costs if he were town), but I'm not convinced that either is coming at it from a truly anti-town perspective as of yet. Blazade is however acting a bit strangely outside of that, so in as much as anyone's going to discuss non-role related stuff I'd like opinions on Blazade's "I'd suck up to you" stance: do you buy that? Or does that also strike you as odd.
Also yw for providing fodder for discussion for the tenth NOC in a row. I swear no one else ever gets things started if I don't do it myself.
I agree with Blazade and LW that no one except Vegeta should claim until some future point in time, or else we lynch them. I obviously disagree in that I think Vegeta would truly have to have zero regard for the village if he/she doesn't claim sooner rather than later and most certainly at some point today.
Also Blazade's complaints about my formmatting are odd, in that it's literally meant to give that post structure and make it more readable than a Wall of Text. Curious that Blazade objects to that as well, and refuses to talk much about that post (same with LW to a lesser extent, though I can at least see his point that we don't NEED to decide on things now, I just wanted to see what people thought and get some real discussion going so that when I die before the real meat of the actions discussion happens the village isn't just blinded by some dumb wall LW posts if LW ends up being mafia).
And no I'm not super interested in following the village leader system, I want a clear for my own and all the villagers' sake in discussing actions and the rest of the game. Initial information helps the village way more than the mafia in almost all cases because it provides villagers with a framework to look at discussion via, whereas the mafia already have that obviously.
Unvote
Vote Da Letter El
Don't idle like last NOC or else I'll think you're mafia X_X
Follow-up to Yeti's post:
Yeti, do you realize that Vegeta isn't just "untargetable" by the mafia, but has a not just a good chance but an overwhelming chance to kill at least one villager over the next two nights if he doesn't claim? To say Vegeta shouldn't claim is basically to say "I think that one claim is worth more than a mislynch". Because if you look at how many targeting roles we have the simple reality is the village is severely gimped or playing russian roulette with our own roles until Vegeta claims.
I'm sorry but this meta notion that 'the mafia might also hit him' just misses the point, as does LW's "well the village roles can idle too". That hurts us way more than it hurts the mafia. We want our roles to be able to target mafia, because we have more of them than the mafia have. Even if only the Tracker/Watcher/Cop/JoaT targeted someone, there's still a 50/50 chance one of them hits Vegeta over the next two nights alone. It's just not worth losing our roles to save a claim later on.
Yeti did you not realize what Vegeta did? If you did, can you expand on why you seem so apathetic to the very high probability that the village literally suicides on it's own roles vs. saving one claim?
Yeti, do you realize that Vegeta isn't just "untargetable" by the mafia, but has a not just a good chance but an overwhelming chance to kill at least one villager over the next two nights if he doesn't claim? To say Vegeta shouldn't claim is basically to say "I think that one claim is worth more than a mislynch". Because if you look at how many targeting roles we have the simple reality is the village is severely gimped or playing russian roulette with our own roles until Vegeta claims.
I'm sorry but this meta notion that 'the mafia might also hit him' just misses the point, as does LW's "well the village roles can idle too". That hurts us way more than it hurts the mafia. We want our roles to be able to target mafia, because we have more of them than the mafia have. Even if only the Tracker/Watcher/Cop/JoaT targeted someone, there's still a 50/50 chance one of them hits Vegeta over the next two nights alone. It's just not worth losing our roles to save a claim later on.
Yeti did you not realize what Vegeta did? If you did, can you expand on why you seem so apathetic to the very high probability that the village literally suicides on it's own roles vs. saving one claim?
Tracker and watcher can get nonvegeta targets night 2 using their night 1 results so that's less than accurate.
2 Nights of vegeta is playing hardball especially depending on context but one night should be pretty safe. I calc a 22% chance in one night of an info role dying to vegeta and that is if it's a truly rand target which it isn't. Again, mafia get a better chance of dying to vegeta too, and if you're willing to trade an info role for a guilty you should be willing to lose an info role to kill a mafia
No but Blazade the mafia just idles. The chances the mafia kill themselves on Vegeta are literal zero. Plus that 22% is assuming that literally all of our roles idle except the info roles.
I'd much rather not take a chance on losing an info role for free (no, not to kill a mafia, the odds the mafia hit Vegeta are virtual zero) while also allowing our other roles to make use of themselves while we still have majority in a setup like this.
Also one thing I'd caution all villagers: be on the lookout for possible Android kill signaling, because they can't talk to each other directly.
One more thing: If one Android dies, go back through that person's posts particularly on days where kills were successful by them and check for patterns between them and other users.
If we can apply a bit of pressure to the Androids to not try to send signals we can maybe avoid a third nightkill for as long as possible.
I'd much rather not take a chance on losing an info role for free (no, not to kill a mafia, the odds the mafia hit Vegeta are virtual zero) while also allowing our other roles to make use of themselves while we still have majority in a setup like this.
Also one thing I'd caution all villagers: be on the lookout for possible Android kill signaling, because they can't talk to each other directly.
One more thing: If one Android dies, go back through that person's posts particularly on days where kills were successful by them and check for patterns between them and other users.
If we can apply a bit of pressure to the Androids to not try to send signals we can maybe avoid a third nightkill for as long as possible.
Again if the mafia seriously idles and makes cell kill that is nothing but good for us. in that 78% where no info roles die we get a lot of info in a more likely non framed or transported guilty (In the one game I played with a bus driver I didn't know I was redirected), a possible tracked cell, and lower chance of errant roleblocking garbage, making the most out of the desire to make the JOAT inspect early while also recognizing that a framer is in the game.
LightWolf that means you need to read all of Sam's underlined text and extrapolate who he wants you to kill from that.
As for Vegeta I guess it depends on the player, if they play properly to appear as town then they should never get some town roles onto them.. I suppose the chance a watcher/bg targets Vegeta thinking oh this guy seems really town let me scout it out! results in a needless town death verus if the mafia try to kill him feeling he's overly town without knowing. If it's someone who can't micromanage how they get read then it might be of more value to the village for them to claim and avoid friendly fire.
As for Vegeta I guess it depends on the player, if they play properly to appear as town then they should never get some town roles onto them.. I suppose the chance a watcher/bg targets Vegeta thinking oh this guy seems really town let me scout it out! results in a needless town death verus if the mafia try to kill him feeling he's overly town without knowing. If it's someone who can't micromanage how they get read then it might be of more value to the village for them to claim and avoid friendly fire.
Yeah I've been plugging the benefits of this role to make it clear that there ARE benefits and that it's not a 100% claim instantly role but I've also made it clear that being Vegeta is a big responsibility and Vegeta knows best whether they're likely to be a risk or asset to the town.
I have a different plan as far as Vegeta goes: Vegeta and Buu should both claim as "PR".
That way we have two virtually unlikillable clears, and depending on how exactly mafia kills work and if their willing to risk killing one of them, they could potentially completely waste two kills on Vet believing them to be BP (provided Cell carries out kills), OR kill themselves off Vegeta if another maf goes for it, either result being great
On the flip side, the maf could potentially not take the risk, but that would eventually lead to late game with two clears, which is just insane, ESPECIALLY once we get to mylo/lylo
I'd like to hear thoughts on this plan. I'm not going to be around to check the thread again until tomorrow morning though, just heads up
That way we have two virtually unlikillable clears, and depending on how exactly mafia kills work and if their willing to risk killing one of them, they could potentially completely waste two kills on Vet believing them to be BP (provided Cell carries out kills), OR kill themselves off Vegeta if another maf goes for it, either result being great
On the flip side, the maf could potentially not take the risk, but that would eventually lead to late game with two clears, which is just insane, ESPECIALLY once we get to mylo/lylo
I'd like to hear thoughts on this plan. I'm not going to be around to check the thread again until tomorrow morning though, just heads up
I like that idea a lot Flyhn, in that the mafia can't dare go for one or the other and the village is never going to want to target either anyway.
I do have one question though: if someone claims 'PR', can they later be more clear about their claim jumpluff? As in, obviously it counts against how many claims we have, but it wouldn't count as two claims from one person (like you said, one person can't claim four things)? If that's the case and there are in fact three 'PR' claims, then we can get just people to claim in reverse order they originally claimed in to find the CC and we aren't any worse off and have a guaranteed mafia in a 50/50; if they don't CC then we have two 100% cleans who are both guaranteed of making it to endgame which virtually guarantees the village can't lose without the mafia using Cell to try to kill one of them TWICE, which is an amazing situation for the village to be in assuming that jumpluff doesn't reveal to the mafia the cause of a failed kill (jumpluff if the mafia killed BPV vs Veteran would they know the difference or just 'kill failed'? What if they targeted someone who was BG'd or Jailed?).
Thoughts on it?
I do have one question though: if someone claims 'PR', can they later be more clear about their claim jumpluff? As in, obviously it counts against how many claims we have, but it wouldn't count as two claims from one person (like you said, one person can't claim four things)? If that's the case and there are in fact three 'PR' claims, then we can get just people to claim in reverse order they originally claimed in to find the CC and we aren't any worse off and have a guaranteed mafia in a 50/50; if they don't CC then we have two 100% cleans who are both guaranteed of making it to endgame which virtually guarantees the village can't lose without the mafia using Cell to try to kill one of them TWICE, which is an amazing situation for the village to be in assuming that jumpluff doesn't reveal to the mafia the cause of a failed kill (jumpluff if the mafia killed BPV vs Veteran would they know the difference or just 'kill failed'? What if they targeted someone who was BG'd or Jailed?).
Thoughts on it?
Yeti LightWolf I have some thoughts that I'd like your opinion on. Mostly who would be the best roles to claim, and what mafia:village trade would be considered fair to you?
One thing that's been bugging me the whole time about what users is how village could potentially target vegeta/buu (vegeta primarily) and how they could be wasting an ability in the case of buu, or outright committing suicide against vegeta. This is somewhat fair, and discourages people with PR to use them for risk of massive harm to their side. However, it is also a very useful deterrent in helping protect the village so would it not be considered worth the cause?
On the flip side however, these two roles (primarily vegeta) is what is discouraging the mafia/third party from going all ability happy since all their abilities are all incredibly powerful in terms of sowing confusion. If they no longer had to worry about hitting vegeta/buu (I am not talking about them dying per say) similar to say vgc players against smeargle which adds a tremendous amount of pressure on the opponent just with its mere existence. If they no longer had to fear targeting them then it puts the village at a far greater risk than if they just had a 1/18 chance of killing themselves, they now have to worry about getting framed, roleblock, or getting transported.
I find it odd as a whole how some users are clearly adamant on preserving village by "committing suicide" while leaving it open to an even greater threat in the short and long run in the mafia. In addition it also helps show the priorities of different users and what their primary objective is this day 1. Especially so when you go from THEY MUST SHOW THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to just claim as a PR role without stating what they actually are. It just shows that they're desperate to remove said threats. I could be rambling though and I might be having a incorrect read on some users. What are your thoughts on this though? It's hard to say who is a good claim this early on in the game though.
One thing that's been bugging me the whole time about what users is how village could potentially target vegeta/buu (vegeta primarily) and how they could be wasting an ability in the case of buu, or outright committing suicide against vegeta. This is somewhat fair, and discourages people with PR to use them for risk of massive harm to their side. However, it is also a very useful deterrent in helping protect the village so would it not be considered worth the cause?
On the flip side however, these two roles (primarily vegeta) is what is discouraging the mafia/third party from going all ability happy since all their abilities are all incredibly powerful in terms of sowing confusion. If they no longer had to worry about hitting vegeta/buu (I am not talking about them dying per say) similar to say vgc players against smeargle which adds a tremendous amount of pressure on the opponent just with its mere existence. If they no longer had to fear targeting them then it puts the village at a far greater risk than if they just had a 1/18 chance of killing themselves, they now have to worry about getting framed, roleblock, or getting transported.
I find it odd as a whole how some users are clearly adamant on preserving village by "committing suicide" while leaving it open to an even greater threat in the short and long run in the mafia. In addition it also helps show the priorities of different users and what their primary objective is this day 1. Especially so when you go from THEY MUST SHOW THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to just claim as a PR role without stating what they actually are. It just shows that they're desperate to remove said threats. I could be rambling though and I might be having a incorrect read on some users. What are your thoughts on this though? It's hard to say who is a good claim this early on in the game though.
Oh I LOVE THIS, US went the "guys the votes on you were just a prank bros!", no they were not, you don't FoS someone and vote someone during a serious discussion and then brush it off.
You are ignoring so much we are saying still. MAFIA IDLING IS GREAT FOR US, yet you fail to show us what so great about a clean person early, because fucking hell US, no one here is denying it's lategame usefulness, we are denying motherfucking midgame usefulness. Before we reach LYLO he won't matter, being clean doesn't change how good their reads are, all it would do is make people like you, who think everything is anti town if it's not in line with your thoughts maybe reconsider.
But hey, you like CHANCES, I mean you seem very sure you that cop,track and watch will hit Vegeta within the first 2 nights. Well let me show you some math. This was calculated considering a lynch today that doesn't hit one of them, the most narrowing down 3 kills at night without them dying, and another successful lynch. Lo and behold during those, the most ideal situations to die horribly to Vegeta the chances ALL of them live is 64.2166%. For the curious all of them living tonight is like 83.something%. And that is completely and utterly ignoring stuff like: Watcher can target the same person twice, because it's completely viable, Tracker and Watched can both receive based on their results safe people to target, US made a fucking semi safe list of people to target earlier this day and most importantly people ain't stupid and will apply their decision based on who is acting the least like Vegeta. All things considered the actual chances are above 70 easily even worst case unless said users are as stupid as unclesam thinks they might be.
You will clearly never get the logic behind this design, or the Vegeta role US, and why it's pointless to claim early with it if not outright hurting the village's chances should mafia be allowed free reign in targeting and their cleanest member having no holes. Also no two people claiming PR is even worse, why would mafia ever target them at all, same results come from them just claiming. This feels like a sell to hey, lets use up 2 claims still even if we even convinced US somehow we likely don't want BPV to claim....
More later, I'm in a hurry.
You are ignoring so much we are saying still. MAFIA IDLING IS GREAT FOR US, yet you fail to show us what so great about a clean person early, because fucking hell US, no one here is denying it's lategame usefulness, we are denying motherfucking midgame usefulness. Before we reach LYLO he won't matter, being clean doesn't change how good their reads are, all it would do is make people like you, who think everything is anti town if it's not in line with your thoughts maybe reconsider.
But hey, you like CHANCES, I mean you seem very sure you that cop,track and watch will hit Vegeta within the first 2 nights. Well let me show you some math. This was calculated considering a lynch today that doesn't hit one of them, the most narrowing down 3 kills at night without them dying, and another successful lynch. Lo and behold during those, the most ideal situations to die horribly to Vegeta the chances ALL of them live is 64.2166%. For the curious all of them living tonight is like 83.something%. And that is completely and utterly ignoring stuff like: Watcher can target the same person twice, because it's completely viable, Tracker and Watched can both receive based on their results safe people to target, US made a fucking semi safe list of people to target earlier this day and most importantly people ain't stupid and will apply their decision based on who is acting the least like Vegeta. All things considered the actual chances are above 70 easily even worst case unless said users are as stupid as unclesam thinks they might be.
You will clearly never get the logic behind this design, or the Vegeta role US, and why it's pointless to claim early with it if not outright hurting the village's chances should mafia be allowed free reign in targeting and their cleanest member having no holes. Also no two people claiming PR is even worse, why would mafia ever target them at all, same results come from them just claiming. This feels like a sell to hey, lets use up 2 claims still even if we even convinced US somehow we likely don't want BPV to claim....
More later, I'm in a hurry.
Can you explain why this argument specifically begs that one of these guys is mafia instead of town butting heads?
Why is jalmont the most likely lynch?
vote Asek this is the first scummy post of the game.
If you need a sub in the future I'm willing to sub in
Ya this looks like a pretty bad scumslip tbh
unvote
vote Asek
I'm obviously village from my perspective, and I see no reason why LW would thus need to be mafia or why LW is even more likely than anyone else to be mafia. It's not his fault he's foreign.
But ya this looks like a pretty poor attempt to show activity while also trying to like incite controversy or get people to vote for one of my or LW.
Also just hopping on the jalmont bandwagon less than 12 hours into the first day of an NOC...Asek I know you're super new to mafia so I'm not as worried about this, but unvote please because we don't want to lynch someone until much later in the day.
I am however worried about what I view as a pretty bad attempt to get people to either rush wagon on jalmont or lynch one of me/LW.
I think jalmont is a lot more clean from this at least in terms of not being mafia btw, if Asek is mafia no way jalmont is as well.
I disagree with a vegeta claim until the very end of the day (near hammer or deadline) if then.
Longer post to follow in a bit.
Longer post to follow in a bit.
pls no godkill
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