Lower Tiers Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Status
Not open for further replies.
094.png
1.5 --> 2
This thing has gotten pretty minimal DPL usage and I haven't seen it in quite a long time. Though it can provide excellent support for certain teams, it's not nearly as widely usable as the other tier 1.5 mons. I find that it is often dead in the water in matchups that aren't versus THALK. As much as I love the spooky ghost, imo it needs to drop.
 
GreenGogoatttt said:
why is stratos a torterra? and qsns rotom-cut? Edit: s/o to BlueSkiddoWeCanToo for telling me
Click to expand...
Because everyone keeps asking:

[4:59 PM] Stratos: lol rotom-c for qsns
[4:59 PM] Stratos: is he in the cut
[4:59 PM] Stratos: i assume its bc of his rain team
[4:59 PM] Stratos: also kami give me a torterra, torterra is the best pokemon in all of pokemon
[5:00 PM] Stratos: first u got this awesome little turtle dude that always tries his best
[5:00 PM] Stratos: then u literally have spike from the land before times, most middle evos are gay and grotle is awesome who doesnt love spike
[5:00 PM] Stratos: then u have a motherfucker with a fucking tree on his back and spikes and metal and shit, u know u dont wanna fuck with him
[5:01 PM] Stratos: best evo line ever
 
Nom: Azumarill 2 -> 1.5
184.png

Tier 2 Description: "Pokemon which have broad applications on a variety of teams but are simply less effective than the Pokemon in the higher tiers."
How is Azumarill simply less effective than Pokemon in higher tiers? Azumarill + Jirachi single handily OHKO basically the entire metagame. It's beats the 3 Tier 1 Fire pokemon and 2 Rock/Ground pokemon. Amoonguss get's OHKOd at +6 along with Thundurus and Aegislash whose attacks can be redirected.
Basically: Does well against all Tier 1 mons and is nearly unstoppable along side Jirachi
 
New Vrank shifts

Votes are in the order qsns, KyleCole, kamikaze, Blood Totem, Stratos

Genesect 3 -> 2
no, has seen no usage. scarf locking into ice beam sucks and its a worse revenge killer than other scarfers due to the terrible stab coverage of bug/steel

no. Just is not very good. Scarf is cool if you're landorus-T but if you're not its kinda like :/

No. hasnt really seen competitive usage in a long time and its hard to justify a rise to 2 territory without even replays provided. If anything it could deserve a drop esp with the growing viability of multiple fire types in the metagame

no scarf is the only good set and if you lock into something thats not u-turn you're major setup bait

No this mon is where it belongs lol its ok
Conkeldurr 3 -> 2
ok i keep trying to defend it but i tried it again and it kind of blows. being so amoonguss weak really sucks and wide guard is the only utility it can provide over the other fighting-types. meh its probably 3

No. Scrafty, Breloom, and Keldeo are better fights in most situations (TR fight/Prio fight/fight that beats lando) and often you don't need a fighting type Pokemon to get Fighting type attacks (Kang/Lando) so unless you're certain your opp is gonna bring Kang/Genies there isn't much a point to bringing this.

Abstain

it's a no from me, not quite enough bulk, doesnt have enough moveslots to be effective

No, its like the best thing in 3 but its lack of relevant resists can make it a hard mon to use.
Blaziken 3 -> 2
no, both of your main attacks having drops in stats is poor with an ability like Speed Boost. HP Ice luring in Landorus-T has become a lot less consistent because everyone knows Blaze runs it and Scarf has become less common for sets with Protect or holding AV, which makes it easier to play around the weak ass coverage.

No, garbage mon. I think I actually nommed it down to 3 when it got moved. HP Ice hardly lures Lando-T at this point and its really exploitable before you get off the first tect.

No. I used to love this mon but being forced to protect on the first turn its out really sucks. Naive outspeeds adamant scarf lando, but I have seen Jolly scarf lando pop up more recently so its not as reliable with dealing with Landos with hp ice or picking off with overheat since it would need 2 boosts now (Then there are those AV ones around)

every time I think this mon is gonna be great on a team it ends up being a sack of shit

big fat no, 9 times out of 10 just use ape lol i hate having to wait for frieza to power up before hes any good
Gyarados 3 -> 2
i haven't seen it used well in a while barring sam's team. cb is the only good set imo but that's been hit really hard by the obscene thundurus and dragon usage.

No, this is barely 3 imo. The CB set is over hyped, the support set is p bad, and the DD set is just OK. 3 is just where this belongs.

Abstain

yes I like the bulky set and DD and band gyarados is good

No i used to defend this mon but its awkward to use
Zapdos 3 -> 2
no i really hate this thing. tw is overrated as fuck and it ends up being a worse thundurus in like 90% of the games its in. roost and better bulk don't justify a move up when it has to take a hit before doing its job, unlike thundurus. thundurus also lives longer a lot of the time because TWave + Swagger give it free turns unlike Zapdos unless you get lucky w/ Static

No, while I like that Zapdos has got nice access to Static, it really isn't a great pick for most teams unless you really really need Tailwind for some reason. Bulky Thundurus is almost always better. Yes I'm aware that Zapdos is slightly bulkier and gets roost, but no this is not enough to justify using it over Thundurus most of the time.

No. Static is a nifty trick but hasnt really changed its viability much. You would think rise of zard and volcanion would make this pokemon better, but people generally are just opting for Thundurus nowadays instead which is preventing this pokemon from shining.

i was pooing earlier today and i was thinking about how much static owns on this thing, yes

No, dont we vote on this like every round
Mega Charizard Y 1 -> 1.5
no. i've been using it recently because i am really unsure of this and wanted to test but this thing hasn't really gotten any worse. STAB Heat Wave is monstrous and extremely hard to switch into bar Volcanion and Heatran but those are really the only two things. benefits from the high gardevoir + amoonguss usage these days which was the tipping point for me.

ah fr*g idk. Tentative yes, I think someone mentioned that it did well in DPL but in every other tournament I've ever seen Zard Y does somewhere in the Really Poor to Slightly Negative region in terms of W/L. Overheat is better than HP ground, use that. Or be cool like me and use both :)

No. Click Heat Wave and watch things turn to ashes. I have built teams with this without Wide Guard support. It doesnt always need support, it just comes in and makes health bars vanish. Lots of people have also been zard weak teams, in particular a lot of semiroom gardevoir teams seem to have this issue. I think Zard is one of the best megas at the moment.

abstain

NO. zard y is so good like whatafuck man
Gengar 1.5 -> 2
no, does really well against every type of squad. Icy wind is a pain in the ass for offense, Taunt + Wisp owns balance. does not get enough usage to match its viability.

NO. Never. Gengar is outstanding and no one can convince me otherwise. Does a great job against balanced teams of any kind, not just Kang squads. Icy Wind/Wisp/Taunt etc. Rain Dance is cool too : )

No. It deceptively gives a lot of utility to a team whenever you put it on that a lot of people dont seem to realize enough. I can throw a gengar in like slot 3 or 4 when building and blanket check a bunch of things. Its also a rare support mon that actually has good offensive presence thanks to its base 110 speed and base 130 spA.

no gar is a great TR check and late game cleaner, wisp + 110 spe means u have a check to a lot of threats in a pinch

Yes, this never should have risen to 1.5 in the first place, its ok but like just 2hko it w/ some special attackers dude.
Salamence 2 -> 3
no, it gets like 2 kills a match and sets up tw best mon EVER

Nah. Looks like shit on paper but it's got results so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ let it be I guess.

No. Stratos going GAGA for Mence

no, twind, intim, typing, coverage all v good, it blanket checks a lot of weird issues i have when i build teams

*grabs you by the collar* *slams you into the table* *glares at u menacingly* "you wanna tell me that again, punk?"
Mega Swampert 3 -> 4
no, I don't love the mon but it definitely has a niche and fits in with the rest of the Tier 3. Fsr Melo said it doesn't have spread when it has eq... and no, you don't look at Swampert because you want a physical rain sweeper, you look at it to check Diancie much better than the other SSwimmers and every version of Thundurus, the last one being key.

lol no. Counters Thundurus and checks pretty much everything in the game minus ferro and kyurem. Not even Amoonguss switches into this monster. If you think Pert is outclassed by another individual rain mon then you don't know what it does.

Abstain

kingdra is better and doesnt use a mega so yeah (fuck u kyle!!!!!!!!)

No it beats thundurus what is this nom quequeque
Togekiss 3 -> 4
yes, I don't see this being used ever and I don't think it would be particularly good if it was. Thundurus is everywhere and it has an awkward typing to mesh with the rest of most teams

Sure. People aren't using this much I don't think so cya.

Abstain

Abstain

hm... tough choice, but no, i think that kiss probably still deserves some respek in this meta, even though it has no relevant resists tailwind is good in certain situations
Clefable 4 -> UR
no, it's fine and I think beating set-up while still having a relatively good typing is enough of a niche for 4 when we have shit like Greninja there lol. Also it has more offensive presence than Clefairy which is a good reason to pick Clefable over it, which is relevant against stuff like Hydreigon which both the common redirectors lose to.

Yes, This got some use in SPL but that was ages ago, no one using it now :( and even then it badly so cya clef.

Abstain

yeah probably my goto is amoong or rachi idk why u would use clefable over those

Abstain
Clefairy 4 -> UR
no, whaaa. perish trap owns

Nope. Friend Guard is useful and even if I've honestly only seen this on perish trap teams recently it's been winning games so that's good enough for 4.

Abstain

unique and niche stays 4 for me because its useful

No i still like this mon for setup support
Volcanion 1.5 -> 1
no, it's powerful but still has common checks in the tier like Dragons and Thundurus that keep it from dominating the tier. similar to aegislash in the "tank" sort of role though when it gets a tad weakened (~40%), it's revenged by Kang, Diancie, and Lando-T, which makes it worse in that regard. still a solid mon but not THAT good

No. I was wrong about this and I'm glad now that people disagreed when I wanted this to be 1. Just isn't as super hot as I thought it was, Heatran isn't made obsolete by this mon at all and even though I think Volcanion is a great mon I think 1.5 is right.

No. Same thing I said last time still applies: "Really great coverage that dumpsters a lot of common threats with Water/Fire. I still think enough pokemon in Tier 1 check it to not make the rise however. Also in terms of adding a fire type to a team I would probably still pick one of the other common fires such as Heatran to better check Zard Y. A lot of people have been building Volcanion teams that are extremely weak to Zard Y and its been quite worrisome to see"

here's an idea: use a dragon type or literally anything faster, this thing has never given me that much trouble, maybe i use gastro too much

No, i think 1.5 is about right, maybe ill bump it up in the future but i hate how it cant touch waters
Mega Gengar 2 -> 1.5
no, it's a weird ass mon to fit onto teams. it's too specific and its inability to give a remote semblance of defensive utility in terms of switching into moves makes it pretty shaky a lot of the time.

No. Mega Gengar is a weird mon, but when I hold it up to the other 1.5's it stands out as being significantly less reliable.

No. Still super niche and hasnt acheived the level of splashability that 1.5+ threats have.

mgar is such a weird mon to tier, great at what it does but p niche I would say 2 fits it fine

No i hate this mon its frail and doesnt ohko ANYTHING!!!
Ferrothorn 2 -> 1.5
no, fire-types are huge in the metagame rn and i don't think i'd use a team without one barring rain. it performs well against the T_ALK part of balance but it gives the Fire-type (ESPECIALLY heatran) so much room to threaten the opponent and set up Subs that it doesn't end up being all that effective. definitely the wrong time for a raise, probably the worst it's been in a long while.

Nonono. Everything Ferrothorn checks barring rain you suddenly lose to as soon as what you're trying to beat is beside a fire type. This mon isn't even a good bet vs someone who always uses rain because it gets so much attention in the builder that it's not a guaranteed win. Good check to rain, some fat mons like cress/rachi, and kangaskhan, but losing as soon as a fire type is present keeps this in 2.

No. Still relevant: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3535930/page-17#post-6638019

no this is settup bait but a good counter to the things it counters

No not even close a lot beats it + its not a good check to things because fire pwns it, which is sad when ur usin 2 of the 3 best defensive types on a mon that cant check things
Suicune 2 -> 2' -> 3
no, consistent Tailwind setter which makes breakers like Gardevoir and Hydreigon a lot more lethal in every part of the game. Great defensive typing annoys a lot of common Fire-types and at least it stalemates Volcanion

3 I guess. Suicune can reliably get it up (heh) but Tailwind is overrated as shit and I've never been like "damn if only I had a Suicune this team would be so much better". I've only ever seen this actually be great on one team and one team does not make a mon tier 2. Maybe I'll come back and change this, tough call tbh. Snarl cune is soopa hot I'll admit.

No 2 is fine. Consistently able to get up Tailwind often multiple times in one game and it makes much partners like Mega Gardevoir and Mega Kangaskhan become much bigger threats.

this thing is 2' consistently gets twind up thanks to nice bulk and has a little offensive presence

Sure I guess I never really liked cune to be honest. dont put it in 2' but 3 ok.
Mega Gardevoir 1.5 -> 1
i went from no -> abstain -> yes in like 24 hours lmao. anyways, one of the biggest threats in the metagame and even against teams with ferro/aegi/tran, manages to do a ton. intimi + redirection isnt much to ask for considering most good teams have that anyways. a breaker that can use speed control itself effectively is really damn good, and its spdef even on a fast set gives it defensive utility a lot of the time. raise :o

Yes. Best mega after Kang. Makes stuff drop with Hyper Voice and gets Psychic for common fairy resist Amoonguss. Trick Room is great on this and it's got the speed stat where you can use it outside of Trick Room for awhile before setting up. Use it with Intimidate and Redirection but that's not too much to ask really.

Abstain

needs 12 more speed or like 50 more defense before it hits tier 1

Yes. This mon is really good right now, 1 of the more threatening pokes by far. If youre not careful to pack some good ways to hit it it will tear you up
Thundurus 1 -> 1.5
definitely not. flexible af, having speed control + swagger + taunt as viable options is the bomb dot com for utility and fast sets are still a pain in the ass to deal with almost every game.

Nope. Top 3 non-mega in the tier. Flexible as hell, and can run swagger so effectively that it doesn't really have any true unwinnable MUs as long as you've got the right set for your team. Bulky, Fast, whatever, every time I use this it always earns it's place on the team.

No. Checkmater is using one test game we had where we both kept missing all our 90% accurate moves as a primary motivation of this. Just because my Thundurus kept clicking twave and he kept killing its partner, does not make Thundurus bad when my partners keep missing attacks. In all seriousness though this is one of the scariest mons to fight in team preview since it can either be offensive or defensive (sometimes you can tell but sometimes its vague). Both sets are super viable and I have found prankster thunder wave to be an extremely powerful form of speed control in the current format as it feels like Tailwind isnt what it used to be.

only good offensive electric can also play a solid defensive role i prefer 252 / 252 a lot but both sets work

lmfao no this is the only mon faster than 110 that isnt weak as piss
Hoopa-U 2 -> 1.5
yes, I nommed it :o

Absolutely Yes. Went and dug up my old 1.5 nom for Hoopa w some small edits. :)
Hoopa-U may be the best Trick Room setter no one is using fsr but if it catches on it will change the way people prepare for trick room entirely. No more relying on Substitute Heatran or Aegislash as your Trick Room checks because Hoopa will flatten them. Oh you lead Amoonguss? Ok Hoopa will just set up Trick Room after it KOs you. Even with a pitiful Def stat you can run this with an Intimidate partner and you no longer have a problem (40 def EVs lets Hoopa-U survive a -1 Kangakshan Return). The item choice is flexible too, Lum Berry, Focus Sash, and Goggles are all really good items. And this doesn't even begin to cover Hoopa that aren't running Trick Room.

Yes. Absurdly destructive mon. TR Hoopa just hasnt been too hard to slap on a team nowadays to grant it a semiroom mode. I still think the Hoopa-U with Tailwind support and Scarf sets are viable as well.

yeah tr is good non tr is viable

Yeah probably, i like this mon a lot and it can be a threat
Mega Diancie 1 -> 1.5
yea, i think 1.5 is a better fit for it. again, unsure, this has been a tough vote for me with a lot of backtracking :< ghghgh Kyle's right, it's hard to break balance a lot of the time with Amoonguss and Aegislash in tow, and semi TR making a comeback makes it hard for Diancie to pressure teams in the mid-to-late game even if theyre weakened. Hesitant on this because of the huge usage of fire-types recently but considering Volcanion takes 50% from a -1 Dstorm (lol) ehhhhhhhhh

Tough but no. I think Diancie is the third best mega after Kang and Gardevoir. Coverage, speed, magic bounce, etc. you know the drill. I disagree that it beats balance on it's own with any degree of reliability though. A huge amount of Balanced teams run Amoonguss and they should honestly probably all be running a Trick Room mon.

No. I understand some negative sentiments about it recently with semiroom and sub volcanion punishing it. But I still think its one of the strongest zard checks and cleaners in the current metagame. Its speed combined with the raw power of diamond storm actually destroys a fair amount of semiroom teams when room isnt up. Also with dragons gaining much more popularity I still think its one of the best ways to handle them.

yes idt diancie is that good

Abstain. MDiancie is real threatening in the teambuilding stage but I dont think its that great when im actually usin it..

Final Changes:
Togekiss moves from Tier 3 to 4
Clefable moves from Tier 4 to UR
Mega Gardevoir moves from Tier 1.5 to 1
Hoopa-U moves from Tier 2 to 1.5
 
yea im gonna delete obvious shitpost noms from now on (rip poor attempt to fish for likes). I will only delete posts where its clear that the intent was to shitpost since I dont want any unsuspecting people to get misled. if you genuinely believe in a nom discussion will happen as normal.

If we just voted on something last round, we will not be voting on it again for at least 2 rounds after it has been voted on. So be sure to check earlier in the thread before renomming something

Also I just merged 2 and 2' since apparently people were still having trouble understanding the difference and a lot of people were making poor noms like suggesting things to move from 2 to 2' just because they believed the pokemon got worse (2' was never lower than 2. they are the same level of viability but with 2' being on more niche playstyles or archetypes)
 
Last edited:
I'd like to nominate Gastrodon from Tier 4 -> 3.

The description for Tier 3 states: 'Pokemon that can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams, but can still perform excellently.' Gastrodon's Storm Drain ability provides a specific role that isn't needed by most teams but is definitely helpful at the current point in time due to the introduction of Volcanion into the tier. Gastrodon also provides a way to take on genies as well as some other good mons in the tiers above it. Even when Gastrodon isn't necessarily needed in a game, it can still help out a team due to it's fairly good defensive typing (and don't forget about scald burns!). On the other hand, when Gastrodon does have a good matchup, it becomes a huge threat to an opposition once again because of it's increasingly effective ability combined with decent defence and decent damage output. I believe that due to these points, Gastrodon fits Tier 3 much more than Tier 4 which currently states: 'Pokemon whose roles are almost never needed, and in most cases weigh the team down due to their use. Pokemon in this tier are far more situational and costly than those in higher tiers.', a statement that in my opinion doesn't reflect Gastrodon in this moment at all.

(sorry if this is really bad, first time posting in this thread !!!)
 
GiraGoomy said:
I'd like to nominate Gastrodon from Tier 4 -> 3.

The description for Tier 3 states: 'Pokemon that can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams, but can still perform excellently.' Gastrodon's Storm Drain ability provides a specific role that isn't needed by most teams but is definitely helpful at the current point in time due to the introduction of Volcanion into the tier. Gastrodon also provides a way to take on genies as well as some other good mons in the tiers above it. Even when Gastrodon isn't necessarily needed in a game, it can still help out a team due to it's fairly good defensive typing (and don't forget about scald burns!). On the other hand, when Gastrodon does have a good matchup, it becomes a huge threat to an opposition once again because of it's increasingly effective ability combined with decent defence and decent damage output. I believe that due to these points, Gastrodon fits Tier 3 much more than Tier 4 which currently states: 'Pokemon whose roles are almost never needed, and in most cases weigh the team down due to their use. Pokemon in this tier are far more situational and costly than those in higher tiers.', a statement that in my opinion doesn't reflect Gastrodon in this moment at all.

(sorry if this is really bad, first time posting in this thread !!!)
Click to expand...

Never seen someone use a Gastrodon so well. What a freaken tank man.
 
Azu --> 1.5

By definition,

"Pokemon which have broad applications on a variety of teams but are simply less effective than the Pokemon in the higher tiers."

I'd kind of like to know which Pokemon in the higher tiers does a better job of using +6 priority attacks. It can be sort of compared to Kansaskhan in that way, but Kang takes up a Mega Slot and both typically are on a team together.

Keldeo --> 2

I haven't seen it doing great as of late, and from my own perspective, never put it on any of my own teams. Has a pretty garbage matchup vs 3 of the top Megas (Diance, Garde, Zard), gets donked by max speed thundurus, cockblocked by Amoonguss, and is forced to Quick Guard against Talonflame. In 1.5, Latios and Rotom-W are awful matchups. Getting completely dicked by Azu outside of fishing for Scald burns also isn't ideal. I just don't think Keldeo is anywhere close to 1.5.
 
the idea is that it doesnt have application on a broad variety of teams, you kind of need to build around azu, ive never been like 3 mons into a team and been like 'ooh azu fits nicely here'

err edit: i guess they got rid of tier 2'? thats why it was there anyways idk about now this is probably a shitpost now oops.
 
Azu actually has excellent defensive typing and can serve as a nice offensive complement, too, so I find myself adding azu on a few teams. Azumarill doesn't always have to be a BD set, either. A CB, AV, or a LO set can be cash depending on the team's build and requires less support. However if your team already has the tools to set up BD (fake out, redirection) then why not recruit azumarill?
 
I actually did have a team where I had Azu as the last mon added, I built Gardevoir/Jirachi/Heatran/Thundurus/Landorus-T for my never played DPL Bonus game with Stax (which I then gave to Dawg and he beat Stax with so I technically won that game) and added Azu on the end since it seemed to compliment the team and give it extra wincons.

Also yea 2' is gone so now its a little different
 
Breloom -> 3
While I'm still a fan of scarf loom because lol you thought you were safe from spores but nah nigga, breloom has really not performed well for me, or for anyone I've seen use it in a long time. It went 3-6 last seasonal (the only mons with more than a couple games of usage that did worse were kingdra and virizion), which means not only was it not really used, but it also didn't do well when it was. Not to mention basically every single mon that is middling in speed ev's to outspeed it, which leaves it in a lot of uncomfortable situations. It's just not as good as the other mons in tier 2 anymore.
 
emboar.gif

Emboar: UR -> Tier 4
Emboar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 184 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
- Protect

**Other options include Sucker Punch over Wild Charge for priority outside of Trick Room. A spread of 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe with a Jolly Nature and a Life Orb to outspeed positive natured Base 110s (Mega Diancie, Latios) in Tailwind.

I swear this thing has a niche. It hits incredibly hard being able to OHKO Aegislash, Amoonguss, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Gardevoir, Heatran, Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame, and Thundurus (The entire Tier 1 minus Landorus-T which it still does 70% minimum). Obviously, it's not great checks to these as Amoonguss can move first and Spore under Trick Room and the rest of the list outspeeds it. However, this gives Emboar lots of Trick Room potential being able to beat the list beside Amoonguss and Talonflame.

72 HP & 252 Def Allows Emboar to take 1 Adamant Scarf Earthquake from Landorus-T, Adamant Double Edge from Mega Kangaskhan and Timid Psyshock from Mega Gardevoir while still hitting a LO Number
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 72 HP / 252 Def Emboar: 300-354 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 72 HP / 252 Def Emboar: 324-382 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 72 HP / 252 Def Emboar: 320-380 (84.4 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

184 Atk Investment + Adamant Nature + LO Allow Emboar to OHKO 9/10 of Tier 1 along with a lot of other viable mons (Such as Jirachi, Hydreigon, and Hoopa-U)
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 432-510 (133.3 - 157.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 603-712 (139.5 - 164.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Mega Charizard Y: 351-413 (97.7 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (Chip damage isn't hard)
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 56 HP / 180 Def Mega Gardevoir: 343-406 (117.8 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 486-577 (144.2 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 510-603 (145.2 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 406-478 (136.7 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 104 Def Thundurus: 359-422 (99.7 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (Chip Damage isn't hard)
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 92+ Def Jirachi: 510-603 (126.2 - 149.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 562-663 (172.9 - 204%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Hoopa Unbound: 519-610 (172.4 - 202.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Why I think it has a niche over mons like Conkeldurr is it's strong Fire STAB and Reckless. For example, Conkeldurr can't OHKO Mega Charizard Y, Mega Gardevoir, Talonflame, or Thundurus (unless they are running Stone Edge which most aren't as the most common set according to Smogon is Drain Punch / Mach Punch / Knock Off / Ice Punch). Why you would use this over Talonflame for instance is it's strong hitting Fighting STAB which lets it take on Heatran and Mega Kangaskhan better. You would use this over Blaziken (which has the same typing and similar movepools) because Emboar works well in Trick Room while Blaziken would never be able to do that.

I definitely think Emboar deserves Tier 4 because why Emboar's role is almost never needed, it it works in some situations and can preform better than similar pokemon like Conkeldurr and Blaziken on specific teams.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top