On the subject of Eviolite: Is it banned universally or only on receivers? Because Chansey is an important wall in OU (I play UU outside of OM) and neutering it seems harsh, though I understand that you now can get stuff like Clefable with Cresselia's stats.
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Palette Pals [Now Playable! See Post #54]
- Thread starter Sobi
- Start date
Hi I like the idea of this meta seems really fun, however, I'm slightly confused when it comes to stat donating. If I build a team that is 100% Purple do all Pokemon have the same stats? If I have 3 Purple and 3 Green Pokemon do the Purple Pokemon share the first Purple Pokemon's stats while the Green Pokemon share the first Green Pokemon's stats? Sorry for being dense or misreading if it was already explained
Yes, it's this
Just explaining for people who have any doubt if you have a Shaymin, a Goodra, and the rest of pokémon are purple and Green, all purple will have the Goodra's stats and all green will have Shaymin's stats.
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)
79/105/70/145/80/101
-25 HP, +14 Atk, +7 Def, +54 SpA, +7 SpD, +33 Spe
With the consequence of slightly worse bulk and an unnecessarily boosted Attack stat, Exploud paired with Thundurus-T becomes a much more potent wallbreaker, sporting a massive base 145 Special Attack. Just look at the power:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 261-307 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even aside from Scrappy Boomburst, Exploud has a nice special movepool, including Focus Blast and Fire Blast for perfect coverage. It also has some nice disruptive tools in Fake Tears and Taunt if you want to go down that route.
Alternative donors:
(80/90/80/130/110/110) 15 less SpA, but much better all-around stats including Speed, and a lower Attack stat as well
(75/125/70/125/70/115) Even faster than Latios although slightly weaker, but even more frail than Thundurus-T and has an even higher Attack stat
Alternative recipient:
Although Swellow possesses more weaknesses (notably Rock) and an inferior special movepool, it has access to something notable that Exploud doesn't: U-turn. With an Attack stat like that of Thundurus-T or Azelf (or perhaps even Latios), Swellow can use this tool to deal some respectable chip damage while keeping momentum.
In regards to support options, Swellow lacks those of Exploud, but it does have access to Roost for improved survivability, as well as Defog for hazard control if needed.
(
)
80/70/40/100/60/145
+20 HP, -25 Atk, -40 Def, +40 SpA, -20 SpD, +115 Spe
This may seem like a weird combination, but Accelgor's stat layout gives Parasect the fastest possible Spore in this OM. It also has some usable additional options in Knock Off and Giga Drain, but its special coverage is basically limited to Hidden Power.
Alternative donors:
(78/81/71/74/69/126) At the expense of 19 base Speed, Talonflame offers an Attack improvement of 11. (Plus Talonflame on its own has a tier advantage.) With the Attack improvement, it can viably run Swords Dance with either X-Scissor or Seed Bomb alongside Spore and Knock Off.
(115/115/85/90/75/100) Going further down the ladder, Entei offers +45 Attack at the expense of 45 Speed.
(105/140/55/30/55/95) Not that it matters much, but this is the highest Attack stat that you can give to Parasect (or any other Red Pokémon for that matter). Base 95 Speed is below average, but base 140 Attack is frightening.
(
)
61/90/45/50/50/160
-34 HP, -5 Atk, -40 Def, -75 SpA, -15 SpD, +105 Spe
Apparently Exeggutor is the only Yellow Pokémon with access to Sleep Powder and therefore the fastest reliable Sleep inducer in this OM. Along with that, it gets access to Swords Dance, Wood Hammer, and Zen Headbutt for offensive options.
Alternative donor:
(65/65/60/110/95/130) While offering notably less Speed than Ninjask, Jolteon offers better stats all around and allows Exeggutor to use its usual special movepool featuring Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, and Psyshock. Sadly, though, Exeggutor does not have a boosting move for its Special Attack.
(
)
91/134/95/100/100/80
+31 HP, +74 Atk, +35 Def, +40 SpA, +40 SpD, +20 Spe
Spinda has a neat movepool consisting of Contrary Superpower among other things, and now it doesn't have to worry about having a crappy 60/60/60/60/60/60 stat distribution. Shame that Superpower is still incompatible with Baton Pass and Wish, though.
Alternative donor:
(89/145/90/105/80/91) Stronger and faster but with slightly less bulk to offer
(
)
100/100/100/100/100/100
+14 HP, +8 Atk, +12 Def, +32 SpA, +25 SpD, +27 Spe
Speaking of improved Contrary users, how about an improved Malamar? Okay Speed, okay bulk, okay Attack...what could possibly go wrong? (Well, it still has that nasty Bug weakness, and that slight Fairy weakness as well...)
Smeargle has already been mentioned, but I'll mention its potential donors in more detail.
(65/130/60/75/60/75) While possessing a rather low BST with no changes to Speed, this is the highest possible Attack stat that can be given to Smeargle. As mentioned, the main thing that defines Smeargle as an offensive threat is access to BellySpeed, with which it can run Spore or Dark Void for reliable sleep induction and Sucker Punch for Ghost-types.
(68/125/65/65/110/80) An alternative to Absol with less Attack but better stats all around.
(85/60/65/135/105/100) Smeargle can also run a specially offensive set with Boomburst, but this is less effective than its physical set due to the lack of STAB priority. Note also that the only thing preventing it from being outclassed by Thundurus-T+Exploud is its access to an infinite expanse of boosting moves such as Shell Smash and Tail Glow, as well as, again, reliable sleep in Spore/Dark Void.
(100/77/77/128/128/90) An alternative to Volcarona with better bulk at the cost of offensive prowess.
(70/80/70/80/70/110) This is the highest Speed stat that you can give to Smeargle. This means that it's the best build to use when running standard utility Smeargle with hazards and whatnot.
(85/50/95/120/115/80) Togekiss is perhaps the best that the color White has to offer in terms of bulk. Base 80 Speed isn't bad either. I can't imagine what Smeargle would want with bulk, though.
79/105/70/145/80/101
-25 HP, +14 Atk, +7 Def, +54 SpA, +7 SpD, +33 Spe
With the consequence of slightly worse bulk and an unnecessarily boosted Attack stat, Exploud paired with Thundurus-T becomes a much more potent wallbreaker, sporting a massive base 145 Special Attack. Just look at the power:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 261-307 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even aside from Scrappy Boomburst, Exploud has a nice special movepool, including Focus Blast and Fire Blast for perfect coverage. It also has some nice disruptive tools in Fake Tears and Taunt if you want to go down that route.
Alternative donors:
Alternative recipient:
Although Swellow possesses more weaknesses (notably Rock) and an inferior special movepool, it has access to something notable that Exploud doesn't: U-turn. With an Attack stat like that of Thundurus-T or Azelf (or perhaps even Latios), Swellow can use this tool to deal some respectable chip damage while keeping momentum.
In regards to support options, Swellow lacks those of Exploud, but it does have access to Roost for improved survivability, as well as Defog for hazard control if needed.
(
80/70/40/100/60/145
+20 HP, -25 Atk, -40 Def, +40 SpA, -20 SpD, +115 Spe
This may seem like a weird combination, but Accelgor's stat layout gives Parasect the fastest possible Spore in this OM. It also has some usable additional options in Knock Off and Giga Drain, but its special coverage is basically limited to Hidden Power.
Alternative donors:
(
61/90/45/50/50/160
-34 HP, -5 Atk, -40 Def, -75 SpA, -15 SpD, +105 Spe
Apparently Exeggutor is the only Yellow Pokémon with access to Sleep Powder and therefore the fastest reliable Sleep inducer in this OM. Along with that, it gets access to Swords Dance, Wood Hammer, and Zen Headbutt for offensive options.
Alternative donor:
(
91/134/95/100/100/80
+31 HP, +74 Atk, +35 Def, +40 SpA, +40 SpD, +20 Spe
Spinda has a neat movepool consisting of Contrary Superpower among other things, and now it doesn't have to worry about having a crappy 60/60/60/60/60/60 stat distribution. Shame that Superpower is still incompatible with Baton Pass and Wish, though.
Alternative donor:
(
100/100/100/100/100/100
+14 HP, +8 Atk, +12 Def, +32 SpA, +25 SpD, +27 Spe
Speaking of improved Contrary users, how about an improved Malamar? Okay Speed, okay bulk, okay Attack...what could possibly go wrong? (Well, it still has that nasty Bug weakness, and that slight Fairy weakness as well...)
Smeargle has already been mentioned, but I'll mention its potential donors in more detail.
Last edited:
PINK
(
)
255/10/10/75/135/55
Now this doesn't seem that impressive, but this:
Audinite
255/10/50/95/175/55
Is absolutely insane
+6 252+ SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 484-571 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKOIf i did this wrong than my bad
(
255/10/10/75/135/55
Now this doesn't seem that impressive, but this:
Audinite
255/10/50/95/175/55
Is absolutely insane
+6 252+ SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 484-571 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKOIf i did this wrong than my bad
PINK
()
255/10/10/75/135/55
Now this doesn't seem that impressive, but this:
Audinite
255/10/50/95/175/55
Is absolutely insane
+6 252+ SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 484-571 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKOIf i did this wrong than my bad
Q&A said:
Makes choice-locked Electric moves a bit... scary. Dragonite has natural synergy with Dugtrio's typing as well. Other stat givers include Landorus-T and Staraptor for Intimidate, U-turn into Arena Trap.
Swoobat with Simple becomes an absolute nightmare with better stats. Manaphy gives all-around useful stats. Cobalion, on the other hand, gives the perfect synergy with Swoobat in both typing and stats. A single Calm Mind patches up that 72 SDef, while the huge 129 Def provides cover from the physical side. Roost for reliable recovery. After a few turns, nothing but Dark-types can stand up to Stored Power. It also beats Unaware. It can also run Unaware itself if needed.
5 less base Atk but 45 more speed. It's also a lot easier to get a Dragon Dance or Swords Dance in. You can imagine what comes next. ;)
Talonflame + Scizor — 130 Atk Talonflame. *shudders* Perfect typing synergy as well.
Last edited:
Or alternatively to Golem, Regirock, Sudowoodo or Tyrunt, who get Sturdy. You'd have to choose between Lum Berry and Safety Goggles though.
You know, I feel like compiling a list of notable stat givers by color, namely by top 5 BSTs, offensive stats, and bulk ratings (banned 'mons excluded).
Bulk rating is a custom statistic equivalent to the product of Attack and Base Power required such that the damage formula yields an equivalent of HP, assuming a modifier of 1 and a level of 100 (in other words, (5/21)*Defense*(HP-2) rounded up, except for Shedinja which has bulk ratings of 1 all around). Average bulk rating is the average of physical bulk rating and special bulk rating, rounded up.
Here is a spreadsheet that I created to facilitate this task:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1epwvkFnvciLD3BaOeJE3RiDI8QZ3VspCA8d67hOt7IY/edit?usp=sharing
Also, don't mind the lines within the hide tags. They're just dividers that I added to avoid the clutter of multiple sub-tags.
Please let me know if I've made any errors, particularly in the stat values. My chief sources are pokemon-index.com (for data that can easily be copy+pasted into a spreadsheet) and the links in the OP, and both have their fair share of errors. For example, the lists in the OP have stats of Gen 1-5 Pokémon listed prior to their stat increases in Gen 6 (e.g., Raichu is listed as having 100 Speed instead of 110); in addition, pokemon-index has an incorrect Defense stat for Hawlucha (77 instead of 75) and incorrect HP, Atk, SpA, and Speed stats for Klefki (58/81/81/76 instead of 57/80/80/75).
Bulk rating is a custom statistic equivalent to the product of Attack and Base Power required such that the damage formula yields an equivalent of HP, assuming a modifier of 1 and a level of 100 (in other words, (5/21)*Defense*(HP-2) rounded up, except for Shedinja which has bulk ratings of 1 all around). Average bulk rating is the average of physical bulk rating and special bulk rating, rounded up.
Here is a spreadsheet that I created to facilitate this task:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1epwvkFnvciLD3BaOeJE3RiDI8QZ3VspCA8d67hOt7IY/edit?usp=sharing
Also, don't mind the lines within the hide tags. They're just dividers that I added to avoid the clutter of multiple sub-tags.
—
160/110/65/65/110/30 BST 540
45/100/135/65/135/45 BST 525
95/65/110/60/130/65 BST 525
60/55/90/145/90/80 BST 520
70/120/65/45/85/125 BST 510
100/125/52/105/52/71 BST 505
—
100/125/52/105/52/71 BST 505
70/120/65/45/85/125 BST 510
64/115/65/83/63/65 BST 455
160/110/65/65/110/30 BST 540
45/100/135/65/135/45 BST 525
73/100/60/100/60/65 BST 458
75/100/63/80/63/116 BST 497
—
60/55/90/145/90/80 BST 520
75/90/50/110/80/95 BST 500
100/125/52/105/52/71 BST 505
72/58/80/103/80/97 BST 490
73/100/60/100/60/65 BST 458
—
70/120/65/45/85/125 BST 510
75/100/63/80/63/116 BST 497
55/95/55/35/75/115 BST 430
72/58/80/103/80/97 BST 490
75/90/50/110/80/95 BST 500
—
32667 (95/65/110/60/130/65 BST 525)
31196 (160/110/65/65/110/30 BST 540)
28158 (45/100/135/65/135/45 BST 525)
26455 (40/70/130/60/130/25 BST 455)
25990 (60/70/105/70/120/75 BST 500)
—
43500 (160/110/65/65/110/30 BST 540)
36774 (95/65/110/60/130/65 BST 525)
33153 (135/85/40/40/85/5 BST 390)
28520 (60/70/105/70/120/75 BST 500)
28158 (45/100/135/65/135/45 BST 525)
—
37348 (160/110/65/65/110/30 BST 540)
34721 (95/65/110/60/130/65 BST 525)
28158 (45/100/135/65/135/45 BST 525)
27590 (135/85/40/40/85/5 BST 390)
27255 (60/70/105/70/120/75 BST 500)
—
—
108/130/95/80/85/102 BST 600
80/135/130/95/90/70 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
95/135/80/110/80/100 BST 600
80/90/80/130/110/110 BST 600
92/105/90/125/90/98 BST 600
75/125/70/125/70/115 BST 580
79/105/70/145/80/101 BST 580
80/50/100/100/200/50 BST 580
100/75/115/90/115/85 BST 580
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
91/90/129/90/72/108 BST 580
90/85/100/95/125/85 BST 580
95/125/79/60/100/81 BST 540
75/95/95/95/95/85 BST 540
100/110/90/85/90/60 BST 535
100/100/125/110/50/50 BST 535
130/85/80/85/95/60 BST 535
110/80/90/95/90/65 BST 530
85/105/100/79/83/78 BST 530
84/86/88/111/101/60 BST 530
79/83/100/85/105/78 BST 530
—
97/165/60/65/50/58 BST 495
85/135/130/60/70/25 BST 505
80/135/130/95/90/70 BST 600
95/135/80/110/80/100 BST 600
108/130/95/80/85/102 BST 600
80/125/75/40/95/85 BST 500
67/125/40/30/30/58 BST 350
75/125/70/125/70/115 BST 580
95/125/79/60/100/81 BST 540
75/125/75/30/75/85 BST 465
80/120/79/95/79/70 BST 523
70/120/40/95/40/95 BST 460
—
79/105/70/145/80/101 BST 580
80/90/80/130/110/110 BST 600
65/60/110/130/95/65 BST 525
92/105/90/125/90/98 BST 600
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
75/125/70/125/70/115 BST 580
71/73/88/120/89/59 BST 500
70/110/70/115/70/90 BST 525
70/60/125/115/70/55 BST 495
—
60/85/60/50/50/125 BST 430
75/125/70/125/70/115 BST 580
67/57/55/77/55/114 BST 425
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
75/55/70/55/95/110 BST 460
80/90/80/130/110/110 BST 600
—
47880 (95/117/184/44/46/28 BST 514)
36659 (100/100/125/110/50/50 BST 535)
35840 (91/90/129/90/72/108 BST 580)
34898 (85/135/130/60/70/25 BST 505)
34453 (100/75/115/90/115/85 BST 580)
—
47233 (80/50/100/100/200/50 BST 580)
34870 (130/85/80/85/95/60 BST 535)
34870 (130/65/60/110/95/65 BST 525)
34835 (90/85/100/95/125/85 BST 580)
34553 (100/75/115/90/115/85 BST 580)
33174 (123/77/72/99/92/58 BST 521)
—
37752 (80/50/100/100/200/50 BST 580)
34553 (100/75/115/90/115/85 BST 580)
33740 (95/117/184/44/46/28 BST 514)
33055 (130/85/80/85/95/60 BST 535)
32703 (190/33/58/33/58/33 BST 405)
—
—
91/90/106/130/106/77 BST 600
89/145/90/105/80/91 BST 600
91/134/95/100/100/80 BST 600
80/100/200/50/100/50 BST 580
90/110/80/100/80/95 BST 555
76/104/71/104/71/108 BST 534
110/130/80/70/60/80 BST 530
—
89/145/90/105/80/91 BST 600
105/140/95/55/65/45 BST 505
91/134/95/100/100/80 BST 600
90/130/75/75/75/55 BST 500
110/130/80/70/60/80 BST 530
65/125/100/55/70/85 BST 500
—
55/50/45/135/95/120 BST 500
91/90/106/130/106/77 BST 600
80/110/120/130/90/70 BST 600
75/75/75/125/95/40 BST 485
40/35/30/120/70/105 BST 400
86/68/72/109/66/106 BST 507
—
55/40/45/135/95/120 BST 500
35/80/50/50/70/120 BST 405
85/105/55/85/50/115 BST 495
75/100/95/40/70/110 BST 490
76/104/71/104/71/108 BST 534
86/68/72/109/66/106 BST 507
—
47233 (80/100/200/50/100/50 BST 580)
36625 (108/112/118/68/72/47 BST 525)
34062 (110/65/105/55/95/80 BST 510)
33960 (80/120/130/55/65/45 BST 495)
33875 (70/85/140/85/70/20 BST 470)
—
32600 (109/66/84/81/99/32 BST 471)
31851 (110/65/105/55/95/80 BST 510)
31269 (91/90/106/130/106/77 BST 600)
30629 (100/50/50/76/96/70 BST 442)
29989 (91/134/95/100/100/80 BST 600)
—
37752 (80/100/200/50/100/50 BST 580)
32957 (110/65/105/55/95/80 BST 510)
31599 (108/112/118/68/72/47 BST 525)
31269 (91/90/106/130/106/77 BST 600)
30950 (109/66/84/81/99/32 BST 471)
—
—
125/130/90/130/90/95 BST 660
80/75/150/75/150/50 BST 580
91/129/90/72/90/108 BST 580
115/140/130/55/55/40 BST 535
70/70/115/130/90/60 BST 535
70/110/180/60/60/50 BST 530
60/55/145/75/150/40 BST 525
—
115/140/130/55/55/40 BST 535
110/135/60/50/65/88 BST 508
70/135/105/60/105/20 BST 495
125/130/90/130/90/95 BST 660
90/130/80/65/85/55 BST 505
105/130/120/45/45/40 BST 485
91/129/90/72/90/108 BST 580
75/125/100/70/80/45 BST 495
—
125/130/90/130/90/95 BST 660
70/70/115/130/90/60 BST 535
60/105/60/120/60/105 BST 510
50/60/95/120/70/70 BST 465
25/35/70/95/55/45 BST 325
60/60/60/85/85/85 BST 435
80/80/80/80/80/80 BST 480
57/80/91/80/87/75 BST 470
40/65/40/80/40/65 BST 330
—
75/95/60/65/60/115 BST 470
71/82/64/64/59/112 BST 452
58/109/112/48/48/109 BST 484
91/129/90/72/90/108 BST 580
60/105/60/120/60/105 BST 510
—
45928 (75/85/200/55/65/30 BST 510)
41040 (70/110/180/60/60/50 BST 530)
40526 (115/140/130/55/55/40 BST 535)
37752 (80/75/150/75/150/50 BST 580)
37712 (100/90/130/45/65/55 BST 485)
—
37752 (80/75/150/75/150/50 BST 580)
35580 (60/55/145/75/150/40 BST 525)
32932 (125/130/90/130/90/95 BST 660)
31587 (60/52/168/47/138/30 BST 495)
31495 (50/50/150/50/150/50 BST 500)
—
37752 (80/75/150/75/150/50 BST 580)
34117 (60/52/168/47/138/30 BST 495)
33483 (75/85/200/55/65/30 BST 510)
33159 (60/55/145/75/150/40 BST 525)
32932 (125/130/90/130/90/95 BST 660)
—
—
108/100/121/81/95/95 BST 600
100/134/110/95/100/61 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
91/90/72/90/129/108 BST 580
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
79/100/80/110/90/121 BST 580
78/65/68/112/154/75 BST 552
123/100/62/97/81/68 BST 531
88/107/122/74/75/64 BST 530
70/85/65/105/85/120 BST 530
—
100/134/110/95/100/61 BST 600
60/130/80/60/60/70 BST 460
89/124/80/55/80/55 BST 483
66/117/70/40/50/67 BST 410
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
70/115/60/115/60/55 BST 475
—
79/115/70/125/80/111 BST 580
60/70/65/125/105/90 BST 515
110/65/75/125/85/30 BST 490
65/40/50/125/60/30 BST 370
86/76/86/116/56/95 BST 515
70/115/60/115/60/55 BST 475
78/65/68/112/154/75 BST 552
79/100/80/110/90/121 BST 580
70/60/75/110/75/90 BST 480
—
79/100/80/110/90/121 BST 580
70/85/65/105/85/120 BST 530
78/92/75/74/63/118 BST 500
60/67/85/77/75/116 BST 480
75/75/95/75/95/113 BST 528
—
37322 (108/100/121/81/95/95 BST 600)
33930 (88/107/122/74/75/64 BST 530)
33500 (100/134/110/95/100/61 BST 600)
31640 (95/109/105/75/85/56 BST 525)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
—
38102 (78/65/68/112/154/75 BST 552)
35840 (91/90/72/90/129/108 BST 580)
31550 (108/100/121/81/95/95 BST 600)
31395 (100/134/110/95/100/61 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
30633 (86/81/97/81/107/43 BST 495)
—
34436 (108/100/121/81/95/95 BST 600)
32448 (100/134/110/95/100/61 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
30126 (91/90/72/90/129/108 BST 580)
30047 (78/65/68/112/154/75 BST 552)
—
—
50/100/150/100/150/50 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
80/105/105/105/105/80 BST 580
255/10/10/75/135/55 BST 540
95/60/79/100/125/81 BST 540
95/65/65/110/130/60 BST 525
110/85/95/80/95/50 BST 510
—
80/105/105/105/105/80 BST 580
50/100/150/100/150/50 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
110/85/95/80/95/50 BST 510
55/84/105/114/75/52 BST 485
95/80/105/40/70/100 BST 490
82/80/86/85/75/72 BST 480
60/80/50/40/40/30 BST 300
—
55/84/105/114/75/52 BST 485
95/65/65/110/130/60 BST 525
116/55/85/107/95/29 BST 487
80/105/105/105/105/80 BST 580
50/100/150/100/150/50 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
95/75/80/100/110/30 BST 490
95/75/110/100/80/30 BST 490
95/60/79/100/125/81 BST 540
40/45/65/100/120/90 BST 460
—
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
95/80/105/40/70/100 BST 490
43/30/55/40/65/97 BST 330
40/45/65/100/120/90 BST 460
80/52/50/90/50/89 BST 411
70/60/70/87/78/85 BST 450
—
35974 (165/75/80/40/45/65 BST 470)
32667 (95/75/110/100/80/30 BST 490)
31851 (110/85/95/80/95/50 BST 515)
31640 (95/80/105/40/70/100 BST 490)
31495 (50/100/150/100/150/50 BST 600)
—
68658 (255/10/10/75/135/55 BST 540)
56662 (250/5/5/35/105/50 BST 450)
36774 (95/65/65/110/130/60 BST 525)
35747 (95/60/79/100/125/81 BST 540)
32757 (116/55/85/107/95/29 BST 487)
—
45349 (255/10/10/75/135/55 BST 540)
38276 (250/5/5/35/105/50 BST 450)
31851 (110/85/95/80/95/50 BST 515)
31621 (116/55/85/107/95/29 BST 487)
31495 (50/100/150/100/150/50 BST 600)
—
—
90/100/70/110/150/80 BST 600
80/110/60/150/130/70 BST 600
85/90/80/70/80/130 BST 535
85/70/80/97/80/123 BST 535
65/65/60/130/95/110 BST 525
50/95/180/85/45/70 BST 525
60/75/85/100/85/115 BST 520
80/105/65/60/75/130 BST 515
—
65/125/60/95/60/105 BST 510
90/120/75/60/60/45 BST 450
80/110/60/150/130/70 BST 600
80/105/65/60/75/130 BST 515
105/105/75/65/100/50 BST 500
81/102/77/85/75/85 BST 505
—
80/110/60/150/130/70 BST 600
65/65/60/130/95/110 BST 525
60/65/60/130/75/110 BST 500
45/50/45/115/55/95 BST 405
90/100/70/110/150/80 BST 600
60/60/60/105/105/105 BST 495
—
85/90/80/70/80/130 BST 535
80/105/65/60/75/130 BST 515
85/70/80/97/80/123 BST 535
60/75/85/100/85/115 BST 520
75/100/66/60/66/115 BST 482
65/65/60/130/95/110 BST 525
60/65/60/130/75/110 BST 500
64/88/50/88/50/106 BST 446
—
36240 (50/95/180/85/45/70 BST 525)
34865 (75/90/140/60/60/40 BST 465)
32100 (75/95/125/45/75/95 BST 510)
29406 (65/90/120/85/70/60 BST 490)
28500 (70/90/110/60/75/95 BST 500)
—
39838 (90/100/70/110/150/80 BST 600)
33960 (80/100/60/150/130/70 BST 600)
32884 (65/40/70/80/140/70 BST 465)
32176 (105/105/75/65/100/50 BST 500)
30167 (80/45/65/90/110/80 BST 470)
—
31834 (90/100/70/110/150/80 BST 600)
29478 (105/105/75/65/100/50 BST 500)
27853 (100/73/83/73/83/55 BST 467)
27611 (111/83/68/92/82/39 BST 475)
27490 (75/95/125/45/75/95 BST 510)
—
—
80/80/90/110/130/110 BST 600
115/115/85/90/75/100 BST 580
75/95/67/125/95/83 BST 540
85/80/70/135/75/90 BST 535
78/84/78/109/85/100 BST 534
—
105/140/55/30/55/95 BST 480
65/130/60/95/110/65 BST 525
70/130/100/55/80/65 BST 500
55/130/115/50/50/75 BST 475
65/125/100/60/70/70 BST 490
110/123/65/100/65/65 BST 528
100/123/75/57/75/80 BST 510
82/121/119/69/59/71 BST 521
—
85/80/70/135/75/90 BST 535
75/95/67/125/95/83 BST 540
65/50/35/115/95/95 BST 455
80/120/70/110/70/80 BST 530
80/80/90/110/130/110 BST 600
75/80/85/110/90/50 BST 490
78/84/78/109/85/100 BST 534
—
80/70/40/100/60/145 BST 495
60/50/70/80/80/140 BST 480
78/81/71/74/69/126 BST 499
60/100/89/55/69/112 BST 485
80/80/90/110/130/110 BST 600
—
32243 (82/121/119/69/59/71 BST 521)
31188 (70/95/125/65/75/45 BST 475)
31046 (120/100/85/30/85/45 BST 465)
30343 (115/115/85/90/75/100 BST 580)
28537 (65/90/115/45/115/58 BST 488)
—
33960 (80/80/90/110/130/110 BST 600)
31046 (120/100/85/30/85/45 BST 465)
28537 (65/90/115/45/115/58 BST 488)
28080 (115/115/85/90/75/100 BST 580)
28078 (85/80/90/105/95/60 BST 515)
—
31046 (120/100/85/30/85/45 BST 465)
30168 (80/80/90/110/130/110 BST 600)
29212 (115/115/85/90/75/100 BST 580)
28537 (65/90/115/45/115/58 BST 488)
27591 (85/80/90/105/95/60 BST 515)
—
—
100/77/77/128/128/90 BST 600
85/60/65/135/105/100 BST 550
85/50/95/120/115/80 BST 545
71/95/85/110/95/79 BST 535
68/65/65/125/110/80 BST 518
68/125/65/65/110/80 BST 518
—
65/130/60/75/60/75 BST 465
68/125/65/65/110/80 BST 518
73/115/60/60/60/90 BST 458
95/110/80/70/80/50 BST 485
71/95/85/110/95/79 BST 535
65/95/100/60/50/50 BST 420
—
85/60/65/135/105/100 BST 550
100/77/77/128/128/90 BST 600
68/65/65/125/110/80 BST 518
85/50/95/120/115/80 BST 545
71/95/85/110/95/79 BST 535
—
80/70/80/70/80/110 BST 480
55/75/60/75/60/103 BST 428
75/80/60/65/90/102 BST 472
85/60/65/135/105/100 BST 550
78/70/61/50/61/100 BST 420
75/87/63/87/63/98 BST 473
—
28078 (85/50/95/120/115/80 BST 545)
26824 (114/85/70/85/80/30 BST 464)
26609 (100/77/77/128/128/90 BST 600)
26507 (95/110/80/70/80/50 BST 485)
25928 (65/95/100/60/50/50 BST 420)
—
37329 (100/77/77/128/128/90 BST 600)
32448 (100/60/70/85/105/60 BST 480)
31975 (85/50/95/120/115/80 BST 545)
30026 (85/60/65/135/105/100 BST 550)
29077 (114/85/70/85/80/30 BST 464)
—
31969 (100/77/77/128/128/90 BST 600)
30027 (85/50/95/120/115/80 BST 545)
28763 (100/60/70/85/105/60 BST 480)
27951 (114/85/70/85/80/30 BST 464)
27332 (90/70/80/70/95/70 BST 475)
—
—
120/70/120/75/130/85 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600
75/75/130/75/130/95 BST 580
91/72/90/129/90/108 BST 580
90/85/75/115/100/115 BST 580
90/90/85/125/90/100 BST 580
90/100/90/125/85/90 BST 580
75/140/65/112/65/110 BST 567
76/147/90/60/70/97 BST 540
75/123/67/95/85/95 BST 540
75/69/72/114/100/104 BST 534
78/84/78/109/85/100 BST 534
—
76/147/90/60/70/97 BST 540
75/140/65/112/65/110 BST 567
75/123/67/95/85/95 BST 540
55/112/45/74/45/70 BST 401
75/103/80/70/80/92 BST 500
—
91/72/90/129/90/108 BST 580
90/100/90/125/85/90 BST 580
95/95/85/125/65/55 BST 520
90/90/85/125/90/100 BST 580
90/85/75/115/100/115 BST 580
90/75/85/115/90/55 BST 510
75/69/72/114/100/104 BST 534
75/140/65/112/65/110 BST 567
—
61/90/45/50/50/160 BST 456
65/65/60/110/95/130 BST 525
90/85/75/115/100/115 BST 580
65/70/60/65/65/115 BST 440
75/140/65/112/65/110 BST 567
60/90/55/90/80/110 BST 485
62/55/52/109/94/109 BST 481
—
39149 (120/70/120/75/130/85 BST 600)
35379 (20/10/230/10/230/5 BST 505)
33021 (75/75/130/75/130/95 BST 580)
32330 (58/50/145/95/105/30 BST 483)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
—
41464 (120/70/120/75/130/85 BST 600)
35379 (20/10/230/10/230/5 BST 505)
33021 (75/75/130/75/130/95 BST 580)
31975 (85/73/70/73/115/67 BST 483)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
—
40307 (120/70/120/75/130/85 BST 600)
35379 (20/10/230/10/230/5 BST 505)
33021 (75/75/130/75/130/95 BST 580)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
31395 (100/100/100/100/100/100 BST 600)
28999 (58/50/145/95/105/30 BST 483)
—
Last edited:
Q: If a Mega Pokemon is the stat giver, do the stat receivers get the Mega Pokemon's base stats or its regular forme's base stats?
A: Good question—the stat receivers get the base stats of the regular forme. This is the case if a Mega Pokemon is the stat giver.
This makes me feel a lot better. No LO Sharpedo with Mega Chomp's stats. That being said, you can still give Sharpedo REGULAR Garchomp's stats, making it an VERY bulky cleaner that can take a lot of hits. I'm pretty sure it's not an exaggeration to say that Garchomp is more than twice as bulky as Sharpedo.
A: Good question—the stat receivers get the base stats of the regular forme. This is the case if a Mega Pokemon is the stat giver.
This makes me feel a lot better. No LO Sharpedo with Mega Chomp's stats. That being said, you can still give Sharpedo REGULAR Garchomp's stats, making it an VERY bulky cleaner that can take a lot of hits. I'm pretty sure it's not an exaggeration to say that Garchomp is more than twice as bulky as Sharpedo.
This metagame is pretty neat, but isn't there a better name for it than "Tradeoff"? The concept of a "tradeoff" can be applied to a lot of OMs where you trade off stats, like Nature Swap, Stat Switch (literally describes what happens in this meta).... Maybe there's a name that better reflects the uniqueness of this metagame, like "Color Cores" or "Color unity" or something like that.
Stats: 74/94/131/54/116/20 (+9/-1/+56/-1/+61/-65)
Ferrothorn + Tentacruel is a pretty decent core in standard play, cause they cover each other's type weaknesses quite well. But Qwilfish seems like an even better choice in this metagame cause of its larger movepool and Intimidate. This looks like it could be a tough core to crack, and it offers a lot in terms of team support, including Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Scald, Haze, etc.... Qwilfish itself looks like a really bulky check to Fighting types thanks to Intimidate, and unlike Tentacruel, it can actually keep itself healthy with Pain Split. Just throw on a check to strong Ground types and this core looks ready to wall everything.
Stats: 80/90/80/130/110/110 (-20/-10/-20/+30/+10/+10)
While Manaphy doesn't gain a whole lot, it appreciates the boosted power and the access to a better speed tier. With the increased Special Attack, it can be more of an immediate threat to offensive teams. It supports Latios by attempting to break through Steel types, and either of them can run HP Fire to hit Ferrothorn.
Stats: 80/80/90/110/130/110 (+30/+15/-17/+5/+23/+24)
A more defensive alternative to the last core. While Rotom-W loses Defense, the increased HP actually makes it more physically bulky than before, while also gaining a lot of special bulk, and some speed to boot. These two are a common sight in OU, and Latias helps check the Grass types that threaten Rotom-W quite nicely.
Stats: 100/134/110/95/100/61 (+22/+42/+35/+21/+37/-57)
Tyranitar uses Pursuit to remove the Psychic and Ghost types Hawlucha doesn't like, paving the way for a sweep. Tyranitar also checks Flying types like Talonflame, and can provide team support with Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, all of which aids Hawlucha. Meanwhile, Hawlucha can switch in on Fighting, Ground, and Bug moves aimed at Tyranitar. Speaking of Hawlucha, it's much more bulky and powerful with Tyranitar's stats, letting it set up easier. While the speed loss sucks, it still has Unburden to attempt to make up for it, although it is still outpaced by faster scarfers after a boost. It can even make use of Roost now, given that it's much bulkier.
Stats: 79/100/80/110/90/121 (+19/+10/+10/+50/-30/+81)
Kecleon can benefit a lot from increased stats. It can inherit from Tyranitar and make good use of Fake Out, Sucker Punch and friends, but with a special spread, it can truly become Greninja's successor. Tornadus-T is probably the best choice for special or mixed Kecleon, and it enables Kecleon to sweep with Nasty Plot, or just wallbreak with its good coverage. Sets like 3 attacks + NP or 3 attacks + Low Kick/Knock Off seem pretty solid. But Kecleon seems super viable and versatile in this meta, so maybe physical sets will win out.
Stats: 65/80/140/40/70/70 (+15/+32/+97/-6/+29/+10)
Besides having pretty excellent type synergy, Barboach can use Skarmory's hefty defenses to become a slow-burning setup sweeper with Dragon Dance, using Rest, Hydration, or both to stay healthy, or Oblivious to set up unhindered. Water/Ground and Steel/Flying cover each other pretty well, with Barboach handling Fire and Electric moves aimed at Skarmory, and Skarmory taking Grass moves aimed at Barboach. While Whiscash can run basically the same set while inheriting from a bulky Blue mon, Barboach gives you major style points. plus type synergy.
Stats: 105/140/95/55/65/45 (+73/+110/+54/+25/+24/-15)
Introducing the most powerful BellySpeed user in the metagame. And no, it isn't Smeargle. While Zigzagoon lacks Smeargle's wide movepool, it (not really) makes up for it by having a stronger and bulkier stat donor than anything White can offer. Unfortunately, Smeargle seems better in every other way. Zigzagoon doesn't even have Shadow Claw, so it's pretty helpless against Ghost types, although it still has Thief. Maybe if Smeargle gets the axe somehow there will be a reason to use Zigzagoon.
I swear to god there are some competitively viable NFEs in this meta. I was going to post Heatran + Shroomish or Gliscor + Lileep, but they just don't stand out enough. Maybe something like Combusken? Surskit? Feebas? need to look into it more.
Stats: 70/120/65/45/85/125 (+20/+35/-20/-10/+30/+75)
While this core offers less in terms of synergy, it makes up for in making Mawile as scary as possible. Mawile with Weavile's stats makes for a fast and powerful wallbreaker with an excellent type, great coverage, and unmatched versatility. 120 base attack Life Orb Sheer Force boosted Play Rough hits with nuclear strength, obliterating everything in its path. But besides that, the best part about Mawile is all the options it has. It can run Taunt to hassle defensive pokemon, Fire Fang to do away with most Steel types, Swords Dance to break through walls, or Sucker Punch to hit revenge killers. Unfortunately Weavile doesn't offer a whole lot of support, cause they both struggle with bulky Fire, Water and Steel types (ironically enough, that Ferrothorn/Qwilfish core up there seems to wall them pretty good). But with the right support, holy hot damn, Mawile is a beast.
Stats: 74/94/131/54/116/20 (+9/-1/+56/-1/+61/-65)
Ferrothorn + Tentacruel is a pretty decent core in standard play, cause they cover each other's type weaknesses quite well. But Qwilfish seems like an even better choice in this metagame cause of its larger movepool and Intimidate. This looks like it could be a tough core to crack, and it offers a lot in terms of team support, including Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Scald, Haze, etc.... Qwilfish itself looks like a really bulky check to Fighting types thanks to Intimidate, and unlike Tentacruel, it can actually keep itself healthy with Pain Split. Just throw on a check to strong Ground types and this core looks ready to wall everything.
Stats: 80/90/80/130/110/110 (-20/-10/-20/+30/+10/+10)
While Manaphy doesn't gain a whole lot, it appreciates the boosted power and the access to a better speed tier. With the increased Special Attack, it can be more of an immediate threat to offensive teams. It supports Latios by attempting to break through Steel types, and either of them can run HP Fire to hit Ferrothorn.
Stats: 80/80/90/110/130/110 (+30/+15/-17/+5/+23/+24)
A more defensive alternative to the last core. While Rotom-W loses Defense, the increased HP actually makes it more physically bulky than before, while also gaining a lot of special bulk, and some speed to boot. These two are a common sight in OU, and Latias helps check the Grass types that threaten Rotom-W quite nicely.
Stats: 100/134/110/95/100/61 (+22/+42/+35/+21/+37/-57)
Tyranitar uses Pursuit to remove the Psychic and Ghost types Hawlucha doesn't like, paving the way for a sweep. Tyranitar also checks Flying types like Talonflame, and can provide team support with Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, all of which aids Hawlucha. Meanwhile, Hawlucha can switch in on Fighting, Ground, and Bug moves aimed at Tyranitar. Speaking of Hawlucha, it's much more bulky and powerful with Tyranitar's stats, letting it set up easier. While the speed loss sucks, it still has Unburden to attempt to make up for it, although it is still outpaced by faster scarfers after a boost. It can even make use of Roost now, given that it's much bulkier.
Stats: 79/100/80/110/90/121 (+19/+10/+10/+50/-30/+81)
Kecleon can benefit a lot from increased stats. It can inherit from Tyranitar and make good use of Fake Out, Sucker Punch and friends, but with a special spread, it can truly become Greninja's successor. Tornadus-T is probably the best choice for special or mixed Kecleon, and it enables Kecleon to sweep with Nasty Plot, or just wallbreak with its good coverage. Sets like 3 attacks + NP or 3 attacks + Low Kick/Knock Off seem pretty solid. But Kecleon seems super viable and versatile in this meta, so maybe physical sets will win out.
Stats: 65/80/140/40/70/70 (+15/+32/+97/-6/+29/+10)
Besides having pretty excellent type synergy, Barboach can use Skarmory's hefty defenses to become a slow-burning setup sweeper with Dragon Dance, using Rest, Hydration, or both to stay healthy, or Oblivious to set up unhindered. Water/Ground and Steel/Flying cover each other pretty well, with Barboach handling Fire and Electric moves aimed at Skarmory, and Skarmory taking Grass moves aimed at Barboach. While Whiscash can run basically the same set while inheriting from a bulky Blue mon, Barboach gives you major style points. plus type synergy.
Stats: 105/140/95/55/65/45 (+73/+110/+54/+25/+24/-15)
Introducing the most powerful BellySpeed user in the metagame. And no, it isn't Smeargle. While Zigzagoon lacks Smeargle's wide movepool, it (not really) makes up for it by having a stronger and bulkier stat donor than anything White can offer. Unfortunately, Smeargle seems better in every other way. Zigzagoon doesn't even have Shadow Claw, so it's pretty helpless against Ghost types, although it still has Thief. Maybe if Smeargle gets the axe somehow there will be a reason to use Zigzagoon.
I swear to god there are some competitively viable NFEs in this meta. I was going to post Heatran + Shroomish or Gliscor + Lileep, but they just don't stand out enough. Maybe something like Combusken? Surskit? Feebas? need to look into it more.
Stats: 70/120/65/45/85/125 (+20/+35/-20/-10/+30/+75)
While this core offers less in terms of synergy, it makes up for in making Mawile as scary as possible. Mawile with Weavile's stats makes for a fast and powerful wallbreaker with an excellent type, great coverage, and unmatched versatility. 120 base attack Life Orb Sheer Force boosted Play Rough hits with nuclear strength, obliterating everything in its path. But besides that, the best part about Mawile is all the options it has. It can run Taunt to hassle defensive pokemon, Fire Fang to do away with most Steel types, Swords Dance to break through walls, or Sucker Punch to hit revenge killers. Unfortunately Weavile doesn't offer a whole lot of support, cause they both struggle with bulky Fire, Water and Steel types (ironically enough, that Ferrothorn/Qwilfish core up there seems to wall them pretty good). But with the right support, holy hot damn, Mawile is a beast.
Been reading the thread for a little bit, and I have to say that this seems like quite an interesting meta. I like metas that make use of arbitrary in-game statistics in a unique way (see: Got Talent?), but one thing that sticks out to me in particular is how the teambuilding mentality changes here. More specifically, determining whether it's worth using certain Pokémon in order to donate their stats to others that benefit from it; to provide an example, Cresselia has an excellent defensive stat spread to provide to one (or more) of its teammates, but due to its poor typing (and movepool to some extent) it doesn't really offer that much to teams that might like to run it other than its stats.
Question: Is Pure Power legal on Mega Medicham? The reason I'm asking is because it's the only Ability available to it and Medichamite isn't specifically listed as banned in the OP; while I'd assume it's banned and it just hasn't been noted, if it isn't it seems very scary paired alongside the likes of Entei and Scizor, which both make it both bulkier and grant it more power (though Scizor comes with a significant drop in Speed).
I'll post sets later, on mobile right now and I'm lazy
Question: Is Pure Power legal on Mega Medicham? The reason I'm asking is because it's the only Ability available to it and Medichamite isn't specifically listed as banned in the OP; while I'd assume it's banned and it just hasn't been noted, if it isn't it seems very scary paired alongside the likes of Entei and Scizor, which both make it both bulkier and grant it more power (though Scizor comes with a significant drop in Speed).
I'll post sets later, on mobile right now and I'm lazy
updated the OP, medichamite is banned
i was stuck on the name of this meta, i started with dexmons but TI didn't like it @_@ so i chose between tradeoff and colour exchange, although i do agree with you that the current name - tradeoff - doesn't really delineate the metagame's link to (dex) colour. and so because i'm terrible with choosing names, i'm going to do this:This metagame is pretty neat, but isn't there a better name for it than "Tradeoff"? The concept of a "tradeoff" can be applied to a lot of OMs where you trade off stats, like Nature Swap, Stat Switch (literally describes what happens in this meta).... Maybe there's a name that better reflects the uniqueness of this metagame, like "Color Cores" or "Color unity" or something like that.
Stats: 74/94/131/54/116/20 (+9/-1/+56/-1/+61/-65)
Ferrothorn + Tentacruel is a pretty decent core in standard play, cause they cover each other's type weaknesses quite well. But Qwilfish seems like an even better choice in this metagame cause of its larger movepool and Intimidate. This looks like it could be a tough core to crack, and it offers a lot in terms of team support, including Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Scald, Haze, etc.... Qwilfish itself looks like a really bulky check to Fighting types thanks to Intimidate, and unlike Tentacruel, it can actually keep itself healthy with Pain Split. Just throw on a check to strong Ground types and this core looks ready to wall everything.
Stats: 80/90/80/130/110/110 (-20/-10/-20/+30/+10/+10)
While Manaphy doesn't gain a whole lot, it appreciates the boosted power and the access to a better speed tier. With the increased Special Attack, it can be more of an immediate threat to offensive teams. It supports Latios by attempting to break through Steel types, and either of them can run HP Fire to hit Ferrothorn.
Stats: 80/80/90/110/130/110 (+30/+15/-17/+5/+23/+24)
A more defensive alternative to the last core. While Rotom-W loses Defense, the increased HP actually makes it more physically bulky than before, while also gaining a lot of special bulk, and some speed to boot. These two are a common sight in OU, and Latias helps check the Grass types that threaten Rotom-W quite nicely.
Stats: 100/134/110/95/100/61 (+22/+42/+35/+21/+37/-57)
Tyranitar uses Pursuit to remove the Psychic and Ghost types Hawlucha doesn't like, paving the way for a sweep. Tyranitar also checks Flying types like Talonflame, and can provide team support with Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave, all of which aids Hawlucha. Meanwhile, Hawlucha can switch in on Fighting, Ground, and Bug moves aimed at Tyranitar. Speaking of Hawlucha, it's much more bulky and powerful with Tyranitar's stats, letting it set up easier. While the speed loss sucks, it still has Unburden to attempt to make up for it, although it is still outpaced by faster scarfers after a boost. It can even make use of Roost now, given that it's much bulkier.
Stats: 79/100/80/110/90/121 (+19/+10/+10/+50/-30/+81)
Kecleon can benefit a lot from increased stats. It can inherit from Tyranitar and make good use of Fake Out, Sucker Punch and friends, but with a special spread, it can truly become Greninja's successor. Tornadus-T is probably the best choice for special or mixed Kecleon, and it enables Kecleon to sweep with Nasty Plot, or just wallbreak with its good coverage. Sets like 3 attacks + NP or 3 attacks + Low Kick/Knock Off seem pretty solid. But Kecleon seems super viable and versatile in this meta, so maybe physical sets will win out.
Stats: 65/80/140/40/70/70 (+15/+32/+97/-6/+29/+10)
Besides having pretty excellent type synergy, Barboach can use Skarmory's hefty defenses to become a slow-burning setup sweeper with Dragon Dance, using Rest, Hydration, or both to stay healthy, or Oblivious to set up unhindered. Water/Ground and Steel/Flying cover each other pretty well, with Barboach handling Fire and Electric moves aimed at Skarmory, and Skarmory taking Grass moves aimed at Barboach. While Whiscash can run basically the same set while inheriting from a bulky Blue mon, Barboach gives you major style points. plus type synergy.
Stats: 105/140/95/55/65/45 (+73/+110/+54/+25/+24/-15)
Introducing the most powerful BellySpeed user in the metagame. And no, it isn't Smeargle. While Zigzagoon lacks Smeargle's wide movepool, it (not really) makes up for it by having a stronger and bulkier stat donor than anything White can offer. Unfortunately, Smeargle seems better in every other way. Zigzagoon doesn't even have Shadow Claw, so it's pretty helpless against Ghost types, although it still has Thief. Maybe if Smeargle gets the axe somehow there will be a reason to use Zigzagoon.
I swear to god there are some competitively viable NFEs in this meta. I was going to post Heatran + Shroomish or Gliscor + Lileep, but they just don't stand out enough. Maybe something like Combusken? Surskit? Feebas? need to look into it more.
Stats: 70/120/65/45/85/125 (+20/+35/-20/-10/+30/+75)
While this core offers less in terms of synergy, it makes up for in making Mawile as scary as possible. Mawile with Weavile's stats makes for a fast and powerful wallbreaker with an excellent type, great coverage, and unmatched versatility. 120 base attack Life Orb Sheer Force boosted Play Rough hits with nuclear strength, obliterating everything in its path. But besides that, the best part about Mawile is all the options it has. It can run Taunt to hassle defensive pokemon, Fire Fang to do away with most Steel types, Swords Dance to break through walls, or Sucker Punch to hit revenge killers. Unfortunately Weavile doesn't offer a whole lot of support, cause they both struggle with bulky Fire, Water and Steel types (ironically enough, that Ferrothorn/Qwilfish core up there seems to wall them pretty good). But with the right support, holy hot damn, Mawile is a beast.
for the next 24 hours, i'm opening submissions for a new name for this metagame
all you have to do is PM me - on smogon - the name you have in mind with a conversation title similar to "new name for tradeoff metagame"; you can provide a small explanation if you want, but it's not necessary, although it could help in the poll that will happen tomorrow. "Colour Cores", "Colour Unity", and "Colour Exchange" are all already on the list. i will close submissions tomorrow at the same time(ish) as this poll. be creative + good luck
It might be my favorite name for a meta ever
Clefairy actually does have Seismic Toss. It can't be Friend Guard and carrying Seismic Toss, because it gets Seismic Toss from Gen III, but Magic Guard Clefairy is what you're mentioning here anyway so it's not actually a problem to your idea.
The bigger problem is that Eviolite is banned.
ANNOUNCEMENT:
i have the results of the renaming poll. before i disclose the winner, i'd like to say thank you to the people that submitted the names and also to those that voted :)
and without further ado, the new name of this metagame is...
The OP will be updated as soon as possible, and I will update one of the reserved posts with some combinations that have been mentioned...
Edit: Check out http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/palette-pals-formally-tradeoff.3578405/#post-6925315 for the pair compendium and feel free to suggest additions like below and also point out errors... thanks!
i have the results of the renaming poll. before i disclose the winner, i'd like to say thank you to the people that submitted the names and also to those that voted :)
and without further ado, the new name of this metagame is...
The OP will be updated as soon as possible, and I will update one of the reserved posts with some combinations that have been mentioned...
Edit: Check out http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/palette-pals-formally-tradeoff.3578405/#post-6925315 for the pair compendium and feel free to suggest additions like below and also point out errors... thanks!
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OR
Let's talk about the best color, PINK!
Earlier I was going to mention the sweet combination of eviolite Slowpoke with Mega Diancie, but then eviolite got quickbanned and my dreams were crushed. But anyways, here's the next best thing! Assault Vest Slowking (or Slowbro whatever floats your boat) with Diancie's stats! While it's true Slowking and Slowbro lose a significant amount of health, they actually become bulkier.
(Referencing Mygavolt and his godly spreadsheets as well as his "bulk" value)
While Slowking/bro will lose a hair of bulk in whichever side they were before Special/Physical respectively, they gain a significant amount in the opposing side! Going down from 32667 to 31495 (Down 1172) on one side, but up 26507 to 31495 (Up 4988) and an average increase from 29587 to 31495 (Averge Up 1908)! Pair this with assault vest, and well, let's just say OHKOing isn't easy. And if you don't outright kill them, they can still recover with Regenerator. Of course they can run Calm Mind, Amnesia, Iron Defense, and Slack Off if you don't want them to have Assault Vest. They also have access to Scald for them sweet burns.
Not only does Slowking/bro appreciate the bulk, but they also appreciates Mega Diancie's ability to threaten Dark-Types. Furthermore, Mega Diancie has no trouble switching into the dreaded Knock Off.
Truly they are the palliest of pallete pals.
Let's talk about the best color, PINK!
Earlier I was going to mention the sweet combination of eviolite Slowpoke with Mega Diancie, but then eviolite got quickbanned and my dreams were crushed. But anyways, here's the next best thing! Assault Vest Slowking (or Slowbro whatever floats your boat) with Diancie's stats! While it's true Slowking and Slowbro lose a significant amount of health, they actually become bulkier.
(Referencing Mygavolt and his godly spreadsheets as well as his "bulk" value)
While Slowking/bro will lose a hair of bulk in whichever side they were before Special/Physical respectively, they gain a significant amount in the opposing side! Going down from 32667 to 31495 (Down 1172) on one side, but up 26507 to 31495 (Up 4988) and an average increase from 29587 to 31495 (Averge Up 1908)! Pair this with assault vest, and well, let's just say OHKOing isn't easy. And if you don't outright kill them, they can still recover with Regenerator. Of course they can run Calm Mind, Amnesia, Iron Defense, and Slack Off if you don't want them to have Assault Vest. They also have access to Scald for them sweet burns.
Not only does Slowking/bro appreciate the bulk, but they also appreciates Mega Diancie's ability to threaten Dark-Types. Furthermore, Mega Diancie has no trouble switching into the dreaded Knock Off.
Truly they are the palliest of pallete pals.
Here's a partnership that could go both ways. Metagross can pave the way for Salamence to become a physical wall. 130 Def with Intimidate, Roost and good defensive typing can go a long way.
Salamence, on the other hand, could give Metagross a much-appreciated Speed stat, without losing any attack power at all.
The icing on the cake is that their type combinations go well with each other.
Other options for bulky Salamence are Suicune and Manaphy, but their type synergies are sub-optimal and Salamence would lose much of its hitting power.
Offense Metagross can opt to use Garchomp's higher speed.
Altaria can also take on Metagross' bulkiness and support its team with Heal Bell.
BLUE is an amazing color to work with.
You get things like Carracosta taking on monstrous stats and plowing through teams while Solid Rock provides cover.
Tangrowth uses Suicune's stats to become the most annoying Regenerator abuser ever.
Quagsire and Swoobat provide Unaware, the latter can become a sweeper with Simple.
Masquerain fulfills many different roles with Intimidate and its amazing move pool.
Nidoqueen with Latios' or Thundurus' stats becomes a powerful nuke. She belongs to a better color group than Nidoking!
Scrappy Boomburst Exploud.
Luxray can become either a powerful status absorber or part of Blue Intimidate spam.
The famously no-weakness Eelektross keeps momentum with VoltTurn and its myriad of attacking options.
Empoleon finally getting to abuse its great typing and Defiant.
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Shedinja is not in the current banlist. Is this intended?
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Some things I find interesting:
Black can use Snorlax to almost directly upgrade Dusknoir.
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dusknoir: 108-128 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax (Ghost type): 198-234 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yes, there is a difference of like 1% in favor of Dusknoir when it's hit Physically. Snorlax's HP is so high is almost entirely drowns out the loss of Defense relative to Dusknoir's normal stats.
It also could potentially help Mega Banette, so that's cool. And of course Snorlax is directly complimentary to Ghost Pokemon, so these are both good combinations to consider.
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 170-200 (48.8 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Or hey, let's make Sigilyph even tougher! Compare this to the Snorlax calc -Snorlax' stats win on Physical bulk, and easily win on Special bulk too. Sigilyph does wince a bit at the loss in Special Attack, but if you're running the usual Stored Power sets it's not that important.
+6 0 SpA Snorlax (Psychic type) Stored Power (380 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 573-675 (168 - 197.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Cosmic Power up, get Special Attack out of Charge Beam, sweep with your awful and uninvested base 65 Special Attack.
Weavile is an interesting option under Black, able to potentially turn Seviper into an actually relevant threat maybe? Or Honchkrow would appreciate the Speed, though they overlap a little painfully.
Umbreon is the walliest choice Black has for gifting stats, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. The other Black Pokemon tend to either strugglea bit to pretend to be walls or are pretty non-complimentary with Umbreon itself -Honchkrow with Umbreon's statline sounds pretty cool, but having to have both Dark types on the same team is a bit less appealing. In general, there's not that many Black Pokemon.
Gray has a lot of options. One of the more interesting points to me is upgrading Skarmory with Registeel -Registeel has slightly more Defense, more HP, and a lot more Special Defense.
252 SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel (Flying type): 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Look at that! That's kind of nuts! A Physically Defensive Skarmory using Registeel's stats can (Usually) survive Choice Specs Magnezone? That's 130 Special Attack, 90 BP, boosted by 50%, super effective. That's crazy.
You can also get yourself a bulky Whirlipede for Baton Passing shenanigans, make Ferrothorn better in every way aside from lowering its Attack 20~ points and weakening Gyro Ball, turn Fletchinder into some kind of bizarre Fire/Flying stall machine, make Klefki more obnoxious than ever...
Or you could replace Registeel with Kyurem. It has less Defense/Special Defense, but the HP advantage is pretty huge, and Kyurem is arguably less dead weight on the team. (But Registeel can be used to spread statuses and set Stealth Rock, so maybe not) Note that Registeel tends to have better survivability, stats-wise, even when taking into account investment.
Grey's main weakness is that it only has two donors that are pretty good at Special Attack -Magnezone and Zoroark, one of which is slow while having good bulk, and the other is fast but painfully fragile. This still provides options like No Guard Machamp hurling 130 Special Attack Focus Blasts that never miss, but Grey is overall more notable for its tremendous potential for stall and for its options for Physical offense, both for donors and for receivers. Terrakion even provides a way to have fast Physical offense.
Purple is cool. Gengar and Espeon are both notable Special attackers (Espeon's statline is flatly superior to Gengar's, but only a little, and Gengar is the more widely useful of the two, so the decision of which to use as donor is difficult) that can give you stuff like a terrifying Venomoth (130 Special Attack, 110 Speed, Quiver Dance Tinted Lens? Yikes!), a Crobat that really loves its access to Nasty Plot, a brutal Nidoking, and other fun stuff. You can bulk out the likes of Sableye and Espeon via donors like Muk, Weezing, Gastrodon, and Goodra. Unfortunately, Purple tends to struggle with Physical bulk, and Pink obviously beats it when it comes to Special walls. On the other hand, you can mix in something like plain old Skarmory or Hippowdon to cover that. I like the idea of Physically Defensive Sableye with Goodra's stats -it sounds amazing, honestly.
For White, Togekiss seems the overall best donor, providing good bulk all around, high Special Attack, and... okay, its Speed is mediocre and its Attack is awful, but White includes things like Amoonguss, Jellicent, Volcarona, Butterfree (Another Tinted Lens Quiver Dancer!), and Froslass. It has some Pokemon that could really use a good Physical donor -Linoone would love more Attack, for example- but its potential donors are all sub-optimal on Speed, less-than-stellar on Attack, both, or are just plain unavailable. (eg Regigigas, Meloetta-Pirouette) You can potentially go for something like Absol giving Linoone its 130 Attack, I guess, but it seems a bit gimmicky, and unlikely to be a strong backbone to the team.
The most interesting Brown Pokemon that leaps out at me is Shroomish. Finally, a Poison Healer that doesn't have a double weakness, and isn't garbage! Brown has a ton of options, in general, but as far as making a Poison Heal wall Shroomish goes, Mandibuzz, Heatran, and Regirock, all of whom have overall bulk comparable to or better than Mew and company. Only Regirock is liable to struggle to assist the team itself, too.
-----------------
Some things I find interesting:
Black can use Snorlax to almost directly upgrade Dusknoir.
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dusknoir: 108-128 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax (Ghost type): 198-234 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yes, there is a difference of like 1% in favor of Dusknoir when it's hit Physically. Snorlax's HP is so high is almost entirely drowns out the loss of Defense relative to Dusknoir's normal stats.
It also could potentially help Mega Banette, so that's cool. And of course Snorlax is directly complimentary to Ghost Pokemon, so these are both good combinations to consider.
0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 170-200 (48.8 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Or hey, let's make Sigilyph even tougher! Compare this to the Snorlax calc -Snorlax' stats win on Physical bulk, and easily win on Special bulk too. Sigilyph does wince a bit at the loss in Special Attack, but if you're running the usual Stored Power sets it's not that important.
+6 0 SpA Snorlax (Psychic type) Stored Power (380 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 573-675 (168 - 197.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Cosmic Power up, get Special Attack out of Charge Beam, sweep with your awful and uninvested base 65 Special Attack.
Weavile is an interesting option under Black, able to potentially turn Seviper into an actually relevant threat maybe? Or Honchkrow would appreciate the Speed, though they overlap a little painfully.
Umbreon is the walliest choice Black has for gifting stats, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. The other Black Pokemon tend to either strugglea bit to pretend to be walls or are pretty non-complimentary with Umbreon itself -Honchkrow with Umbreon's statline sounds pretty cool, but having to have both Dark types on the same team is a bit less appealing. In general, there's not that many Black Pokemon.
Gray has a lot of options. One of the more interesting points to me is upgrading Skarmory with Registeel -Registeel has slightly more Defense, more HP, and a lot more Special Defense.
252 SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel (Flying type): 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Look at that! That's kind of nuts! A Physically Defensive Skarmory using Registeel's stats can (Usually) survive Choice Specs Magnezone? That's 130 Special Attack, 90 BP, boosted by 50%, super effective. That's crazy.
You can also get yourself a bulky Whirlipede for Baton Passing shenanigans, make Ferrothorn better in every way aside from lowering its Attack 20~ points and weakening Gyro Ball, turn Fletchinder into some kind of bizarre Fire/Flying stall machine, make Klefki more obnoxious than ever...
Or you could replace Registeel with Kyurem. It has less Defense/Special Defense, but the HP advantage is pretty huge, and Kyurem is arguably less dead weight on the team. (But Registeel can be used to spread statuses and set Stealth Rock, so maybe not) Note that Registeel tends to have better survivability, stats-wise, even when taking into account investment.
Grey's main weakness is that it only has two donors that are pretty good at Special Attack -Magnezone and Zoroark, one of which is slow while having good bulk, and the other is fast but painfully fragile. This still provides options like No Guard Machamp hurling 130 Special Attack Focus Blasts that never miss, but Grey is overall more notable for its tremendous potential for stall and for its options for Physical offense, both for donors and for receivers. Terrakion even provides a way to have fast Physical offense.
Purple is cool. Gengar and Espeon are both notable Special attackers (Espeon's statline is flatly superior to Gengar's, but only a little, and Gengar is the more widely useful of the two, so the decision of which to use as donor is difficult) that can give you stuff like a terrifying Venomoth (130 Special Attack, 110 Speed, Quiver Dance Tinted Lens? Yikes!), a Crobat that really loves its access to Nasty Plot, a brutal Nidoking, and other fun stuff. You can bulk out the likes of Sableye and Espeon via donors like Muk, Weezing, Gastrodon, and Goodra. Unfortunately, Purple tends to struggle with Physical bulk, and Pink obviously beats it when it comes to Special walls. On the other hand, you can mix in something like plain old Skarmory or Hippowdon to cover that. I like the idea of Physically Defensive Sableye with Goodra's stats -it sounds amazing, honestly.
For White, Togekiss seems the overall best donor, providing good bulk all around, high Special Attack, and... okay, its Speed is mediocre and its Attack is awful, but White includes things like Amoonguss, Jellicent, Volcarona, Butterfree (Another Tinted Lens Quiver Dancer!), and Froslass. It has some Pokemon that could really use a good Physical donor -Linoone would love more Attack, for example- but its potential donors are all sub-optimal on Speed, less-than-stellar on Attack, both, or are just plain unavailable. (eg Regigigas, Meloetta-Pirouette) You can potentially go for something like Absol giving Linoone its 130 Attack, I guess, but it seems a bit gimmicky, and unlikely to be a strong backbone to the team.
The most interesting Brown Pokemon that leaps out at me is Shroomish. Finally, a Poison Healer that doesn't have a double weakness, and isn't garbage! Brown has a ton of options, in general, but as far as making a Poison Heal wall Shroomish goes, Mandibuzz, Heatran, and Regirock, all of whom have overall bulk comparable to or better than Mew and company. Only Regirock is liable to struggle to assist the team itself, too.
Made a few minor edits to my earlier post. Apparently I had Conkeldurr and Fletchinder listed as Gray, but they are actually Brown and Red respectively. Also, I had Malamar listed as Purple even though it's actually Blue.
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120/70/120/75/130/85
+59 HP, -20 Atk, +75 Def, +25 Sp. Atk, +80 Sp. Def, -75 Speed
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Protect
- U-turn
- Roost
Not the strongest Final Gambit out there, but 443 HP (obviously not 444 because of Stealth Rock) is still quite respectable, and CressJask hits 442 Speed after a Speed Boost, something that no other Final Gambit user above base 100 HP can do. Along with that, it can even use Roost to get its HP back up.
Alternative donor:
Has 40 less HP and less overall bulk but 33 more Speed at +0 and stronger U-turns. Pick your poison.
Also, I don't know how useful this will be, but here's a resource for evolution lines with differently colored forms:
Green, Green, White
Brown, Yellow, Yellow
Purple, Brown
Brown, Yellow
Blue, Blue, Red, Green
Yellow, Blue
Blue, Blue, Blue, Green
Pink, Yellow
Purple, Brown, Brown, Brown
Brown, Purple
Green, Red
Pink, Red
Red, Blue
Brown, Blue, Yellow, Red, Purple, Black, Green, Blue, Pink
Pink, Red, Red
Blue, Blue, Brown
Green, Red
White, Pink, Yellow
Pink, Green, Blue
Red, Green
Gray, Purple
Gray, Purple
Pink, Purple
Gray, Red
Blue, Purple
Blue, Gray
Green, Gray, Green
Brown, White
Red, White, Yellow, Purple, Green
White, Yellow
Brown, Green
Brown, White (Slaking omitted because banned)
Gray, Yellow, Brown
Pink, Blue, Blue
Yellow, Brown
Pink, Purple
Blue, Red (reminder that Pure Power is banned)
Green, Yellow
Green, Purple
Red, Blue
Yellow, Red
Black, Purple
Brown, Green, Green
Gray, Blue
Brown, Black
Purple, Green
Brown, Pink
Yellow, Blue
Gray, Gray, White
Blue, Blue, Pink
Blue, White, Blue
Gray, Gray, Yellow
Brown, Gray, Gray
Gray, Gray, Brown
Yellow, Green, Yellow
Red, Gray, Red
Brown, Brown, Red
Yellow, Red
Black, Yellow
Blue, White
Yellow, Brown
Blue, Gray
White, Blue, Blue
Blue, Brown
White, Black, Black
Green, Green, Yellow
Yellow, Purple
White, Red
Brown, Green, Green (only starter line that differs in color, fun fact)
Gray, White, Pink
White, White, Green
As usual, please let me know if there are any errors.
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120/70/120/75/130/85
+59 HP, -20 Atk, +75 Def, +25 Sp. Atk, +80 Sp. Def, -75 Speed
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Final Gambit
- Protect
- U-turn
- Roost
Not the strongest Final Gambit out there, but 443 HP (obviously not 444 because of Stealth Rock) is still quite respectable, and CressJask hits 442 Speed after a Speed Boost, something that no other Final Gambit user above base 100 HP can do. Along with that, it can even use Roost to get its HP back up.
Alternative donor:
Also, I don't know how useful this will be, but here's a resource for evolution lines with differently colored forms: