I've added aubisio's Offensive and kyubic's Offensive Utility (Spikes) set to the OP. I'll provide commentary to some of the other sets below:
I think the set (before amendments) is trying to do too much at once and is getting lost in the shuffle. In the first place, ANY set with Wish and defensive investment should be prioritizing HP. Life Orb's HP burn is not significant enough to affect the gains from HP Investment, which in this case 232 HP reduces damage more than 140 Def/100 SpD for either stats. 232 HP EVs also put CAP at 367 HP, which avoids 1HP of additional damage from Spikes and is fairly close to an ideal Life Orb number.
Furthermore, If you look at Speed Tiers in CAP, the only thing 337 Spe is tying is +Spe Crucibelle, but Crucibelle is almost always going to Mega and HP Ground can't OHKO Mega Crucibelle (and it only KO's base Crucibelle about 50% of the time if you catch it on a switch). For this reason since the set is running Modest you should lower the Spe EVs to 240 (334 Spe) to Outpace +Spe Garchomp for the easy Moonblast KO, and put the 12 EVs gained this way into SpA, which actually nets some reliable KOs and 2HKOs. The result is the edited spread.
As far as HP Ground vs HP Fire, HP Fire's only viable target is Mega Scizor, which could otherwise Roost off a missed Focus Blast. HP Ground hits everything else just as hard, but it has less utility against opponents like Ferrothorn that are ground-neutral. I *suppose* you could run HP Fire for that purpose but it would have no other useful targets compared to Focus Blast or HP Ground. In a set like this, Aura Sphere has limited potential because we're not maximizing CAP's speed to ensure it hits the opponent first. Focus Blast is less reliable but much, much stronger.
If there is some agreement after the next phase I would like to push this amended set up into the For Consideration section.
Calcs:
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Crucibelle: 177-211 (50 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 408-484 (126.3 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 276-328 (85.4 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 181-214 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Why should Parting Shot be run in the 4th slot over Hidden Power Ground? The problem with Fire or Ground coverage is that if we provide CAP with one, the other is freed up for Hidden Power. Since both Fire AND Ground strike counters in different ways (including 4x hits) this makes the coverage moves problematic. Even with something as mediocre as Flame Burst, I feel that level of coverage sucks up a moveslot to make CAP more an all-purpose attacker rather a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot.
I'm very wary of Fire and Ground coverage to begin with, but before I make a final determination I'd like an argument as to why it would not be overpowered to allow a potential set with both coverage types to emerge, and what that 4-Attack set would do to discourage Parting Shot.
The biggest issue with this set is the Slashitis. While I like the idea of 3 Attack + Parting Shot, that isn't what this set is because it tries to shoehorn Taunt in. Taunt shouldn't be on a Specs set at all, and unfortunately if we select Taunt and Parting Shot this set is indistinguishable from a prior submission. My recommendation is to split out a 3-Attack Specs set into its own separate set and make edits you see fit to the original Dual STAB + Taunt submission.
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For everyone else:
EDIT: Had a discussion with HeaL and decided snake_rattler's needed a little more work. Please re-read and adjust accordingly.
We now have 3 sets in Under Consideration. The first is an Imprison Set with Sludge Wave and Knock Off as the third move options. What is the consensus of the community on these two moves and their offensive / support capabilities?
The second is a Taunt option set based around Dual STABs and Taunt. This is a minimalistic basic set and I'd like to get feedback on pushing it into Accepted, perhaps with a slash for Aura Sphere / Focus Blast.
The final set is a utility Spikes set with STABs and Parting Shot. I'd like to firm up consensus on whether Spikes' fixed damage puts too many restraints around our counters or whether it assists Parting Shot in wearing down opposing teams generally.
Please focus on these submissions at this time, and do not submit any more sets until these 3 are discussed. Additional submissions are temporarily closed.
Wishful Thinking said:Name: Wishful Thinking
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Focus BlastHP Fire/ HP Ground
Move 3: Wish
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 232 HP /36 SpA / 240 Spe
Nature: Modest
I think the set (before amendments) is trying to do too much at once and is getting lost in the shuffle. In the first place, ANY set with Wish and defensive investment should be prioritizing HP. Life Orb's HP burn is not significant enough to affect the gains from HP Investment, which in this case 232 HP reduces damage more than 140 Def/100 SpD for either stats. 232 HP EVs also put CAP at 367 HP, which avoids 1HP of additional damage from Spikes and is fairly close to an ideal Life Orb number.
Furthermore, If you look at Speed Tiers in CAP, the only thing 337 Spe is tying is +Spe Crucibelle, but Crucibelle is almost always going to Mega and HP Ground can't OHKO Mega Crucibelle (and it only KO's base Crucibelle about 50% of the time if you catch it on a switch). For this reason since the set is running Modest you should lower the Spe EVs to 240 (334 Spe) to Outpace +Spe Garchomp for the easy Moonblast KO, and put the 12 EVs gained this way into SpA, which actually nets some reliable KOs and 2HKOs. The result is the edited spread.
As far as HP Ground vs HP Fire, HP Fire's only viable target is Mega Scizor, which could otherwise Roost off a missed Focus Blast. HP Ground hits everything else just as hard, but it has less utility against opponents like Ferrothorn that are ground-neutral. I *suppose* you could run HP Fire for that purpose but it would have no other useful targets compared to Focus Blast or HP Ground. In a set like this, Aura Sphere has limited potential because we're not maximizing CAP's speed to ensure it hits the opponent first. Focus Blast is less reliable but much, much stronger.
If there is some agreement after the next phase I would like to push this amended set up into the For Consideration section.
Calcs:
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Crucibelle: 177-211 (50 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 408-484 (126.3 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 276-328 (85.4 - 101.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
36+ SpA Life Orb Pangoro Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 181-214 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive w/ Coverage said:Name: Offensive
Move 1: Aura Sphere
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: Flame Burst
Move 4: Parting Shot
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Why should Parting Shot be run in the 4th slot over Hidden Power Ground? The problem with Fire or Ground coverage is that if we provide CAP with one, the other is freed up for Hidden Power. Since both Fire AND Ground strike counters in different ways (including 4x hits) this makes the coverage moves problematic. Even with something as mediocre as Flame Burst, I feel that level of coverage sucks up a moveslot to make CAP more an all-purpose attacker rather a Pokemon defined by Parting Shot.
I'm very wary of Fire and Ground coverage to begin with, but before I make a final determination I'd like an argument as to why it would not be overpowered to allow a potential set with both coverage types to emerge, and what that 4-Attack set would do to discourage Parting Shot.
Offensive w/ Coverage + Taunt said:Name: Offensive Pivot / Stallbreaker
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
Move 3: Sludge Wave / Taunt
Move 4: Parting Shot / Taunt
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
The biggest issue with this set is the Slashitis. While I like the idea of 3 Attack + Parting Shot, that isn't what this set is because it tries to shoehorn Taunt in. Taunt shouldn't be on a Specs set at all, and unfortunately if we select Taunt and Parting Shot this set is indistinguishable from a prior submission. My recommendation is to split out a 3-Attack Specs set into its own separate set and make edits you see fit to the original Dual STAB + Taunt submission.
- - - - -
For everyone else:
EDIT: Had a discussion with HeaL and decided snake_rattler's needed a little more work. Please re-read and adjust accordingly.
We now have 3 sets in Under Consideration. The first is an Imprison Set with Sludge Wave and Knock Off as the third move options. What is the consensus of the community on these two moves and their offensive / support capabilities?
The second is a Taunt option set based around Dual STABs and Taunt. This is a minimalistic basic set and I'd like to get feedback on pushing it into Accepted, perhaps with a slash for Aura Sphere / Focus Blast.
The final set is a utility Spikes set with STABs and Parting Shot. I'd like to firm up consensus on whether Spikes' fixed damage puts too many restraints around our counters or whether it assists Parting Shot in wearing down opposing teams generally.
Please focus on these submissions at this time, and do not submit any more sets until these 3 are discussed. Additional submissions are temporarily closed.
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