DP Tier Discussion Thread - BL and UU

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Castform DOESN'T have a Sand form. Therefore its still 100 BP. Though you're right, BP matters a lot.
 
Omastar has HP Rock, as well, and I'm pretty sure that gets STAB (in addition to higher PP). It's definitely a solid threat, though...it's only slightly weaker than Glaceon, and unlike Glaceon it can really threaten a straight sweep if it has Rain Dance support. A specially defensive Quagsire could probably wall it and threaten with EQ.

Speaking of which, did we ever come to a solid decision on Glaceon or not? The few times I've used it (mainly the LO version), it's been able to 2HKO basicially everything it comes across and is bulky enough to usually take a neutral attack or two. And it actually does outspeed a lot of things in UU.
 
Fishin said:
Omastar has HP Rock, as well, and I'm pretty sure that gets STAB (in addition to higher PP). It's definitely a solid threat, though...it's only slightly weaker than Glaceon, and unlike Glaceon it can really threaten a straight sweep if it has Rain Dance support. A specially defensive Quagsire could probably wall it and threaten with EQ.

Speaking of which, did we ever come to a solid decision on Glaceon or not? The few times I've used it (mainly the LO version), it's been able to 2HKO basicially everything it comes across and is bulky enough to usually take a neutral attack or two. And it actually does outspeed a lot of things in UU.
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It is currently a UU to be tested. Overall, the decision was that while powerful, it has a crap movepool and HP can't cover all of its potential counters. I think most were thinking it would be BL if Abomasnow / Snover was allowed in because Specs Blizzard hurts a lot.
 
I'm not sure why Pinsir isn't BL, it's really very similar to heracross. The only thing that makes it worse than it is no fighting STAB and no megahorn, but its still a powerful force that would sway the UU metagame I think. Quagsire can handle it, and that's really all I can think of atm. Stuff like meganium, clefable, aggron, solrock all get hurt by it pretty bad. Tangela will hurt from it too if its allowed, although gligar will wall it well. Like heracross, it has nice type coverage. A choice band/swords dance version will cripple the weaker UU walls, and a choice scarfer will rip through the slow and generally weak sweepers. Any back up on this would be nice
 
Sorry I missed that, i think after awhile he'll get moved up, but who knows. At least Quagsire will have yet another really important purpose if not ;)
 
Seems like a good time to post an update. Its been 2 pages of discussion already...

Current Discussion
Omastar

BL waiting list. The ones to be removed.
-Feraligatr
-Typhlosion
-Crobat
-Azumarill
-Ursaring
-Slowking
-Mamoswine
-Ambipom
-Jumpluff

UU's to be tested.
 -Walrein
-Glaceon
-Pinsir
-Cacturne
-Lapras
-Ninetales
-Poliwrath <--- couldn't find a better place to put him
-Hitmonlee

BL's with recommendations for movedown to UU or to be Tested.
Note: Weak recommendations are placed for historical purposes, so that we don't repeat say, the Miltank or Houndoom debate.
-Claydol (Very Strong)
-Cloyster (Very Strong)
-Torterra (High)
-Steelix (High)
-Drapion (High)
-Shedinja (Medium - high)
-Regigigas (Weak)
-Houndoom (Very Weak)
-Miltank (Very Weak)
-Flygon (Very Weak)

Widely Acceptable NFE's. (Debatable ones are in the other thread)
-Scyther
-Magmar
-Electabuzz
-Trapinch
-Poliwhirl
-Clamperl
-Vigoroth
-Pikachu

Non-obvious Banned NFEs (AKA, BL)
Snover
Hippopatas
 
If Omastar runs HP Electric as its fourth moveslot it gets walled by Lanturn, and if it runs HP Rock it gets walled by Poliwrath.. I've been using Gorebyss as my Rain Dancer and it's hard enough to get in and set up a Rain Dance, Omastar has 2 more weaknesses to contend with and it's slow as hell without a rain dance...
 
..........I can't believe somebody took my Omastar comment seriously as for discussion considering that was mostly a joke, thats all I can say.

I'll make that clearer one more time.

Omastar is most certainly 100% UU. (Just a rather kickass one)
 
Forsety said:
..........I can't believe somebody took my Omastar comment seriously as for discussion considering that was mostly a joke, thats all I can say.
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lulz, considering how much of a powerhouse it is under rain it's a little hard to assume you were joking... :happybrain:
 
Yea omastar is good outside UU, but not a huge threat in it. Really without rain its just too slow and weak (nice defense, but horrible typing), and even in rain, Hypno and Grumpig (and maybe even Quagsire?) could take care of it. I'd just hate to see it get ancient power hax....
 
Mr_Goodbar4321 said:
Sorry I missed that, i think after awhile he'll get moved up, but who knows. At least Quagsire will have yet another really important purpose if not ;)
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I don't get it. What makes Quagsire such a good wall? 95/85 HP/Defense is good but nothing special, and Pinsir easily 2HKOs after a Swords Dance. At least Gastrodon gets reliable recovery and can take special hits if needed.
 
Yeah, I STRONGLY think Pinsir should be BL. 383 attack, and 120 BP moves means Pain. Also, mold breaker ruins a lot of things that might wall it, or even SWITCH IN to it.

I mean, 383 ATK with 120 BP moves does more than Azumarrils Aqua Jet... and Azumarril is BL. This is without CB even, if it went with CB it would have 574 attack. I don't really think anything can wall Pinsir in UU. Shineyoddish tore up my team with one on shoddy, and even my bulkiest guys got owned by it.

Like the above poster said, it's basically Heracross sans Megahorn.
 
skiddle said:
Yeah, I STRONGLY think Pinsir should be BL. 383 attack, and 120 BP moves means Pain. Also, mold breaker ruins a lot of things that might wall it, or even SWITCH IN to it.
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For the record, I think Mold Breaker only works with things Pinsir switches into, not what switches into Pinsir.

And Hitmontop resists everything Pinsir can throw at it except Earthquake, and can smack it around with Stone Edge. Intimidate only helps its case too. :p
 
mold breaker is a constantly active trait like it works ALL the time Pinsir is in but however the Moldbreaker alerts the foe to its presence
 
AJC said:
it only blocks traits that prevent its attacks from eather taking place or reducing their damage/effects
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lol, then really it's barely even an issue. Maybe it'll give Solrock and Camerupt a hard time, but other than that I doubt that'll be the thing that pushes it over to UU.
 
Slickee said:
For the record, I think Mold Breaker only works with things Pinsir switches into, not what switches into Pinsir.

And Hitmontop resists everything Pinsir can throw at it except Earthquake, and can smack it around with Stone Edge. Intimidate only helps its case too. :p
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Mold Breaker does not stop Intimidate. Hyper Cutter, on the other hand, does. I'd be more likely to use Hyper Cutter in UU anyways, as many of the pokemon Mold Breaker would be useful on (Weezing, Rhyperior, Gengar) are confined to OU. Assuming no intimidate (Pinsir is using Hyper Cutter), CB CC does 51.64% - 60.86% and Swords Dance'd CC does 68.75% - 80.92% (89.14% - 104.93% if Pinsir's using LO). Hitmontop isn't exactly a solid counter, though it can switch in fairly safely on most of Pinsir's other moves.


I don't get it. What makes Quagsire such a good wall? 95/85 HP/Defense is good but nothing special, and Pinsir easily 2HKOs after a Swords Dance. At least Gastrodon gets reliable recovery and can take special hits if needed.
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Mainly it's typing and the fact that it absorbs water. Think of it as an UU version of Swampert. Gastrodon is a bit weaker on the physical side and doesn't have that nifty water absorbtion, though it still makes a pretty good defensive pokemon thanks to recover.
 
Yeah, I STRONGLY think Pinsir should be BL
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Yeah I'm real convinced now...

skiddle said:
Shineyoddish tore up my team with one on shoddy, and even my bulkiest guys got owned by it.
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That might have more to do with you.

Pinsir's purpose is to break walls and bulky slow movers and you let it do that. Ever tried beating on it after its def/s.def down? You'd be surprised how fast it either runs or dies.

I mean, 383 ATK with 120 BP moves does more than Azumarrils Aqua Jet... and Azumarril is BL.
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Well duh.

You did just compare its strongest attack vs Azu's weakest attack, any kid I ask could realise that it'd obviously be stronger.

Like the above poster said, it's basically Heracross sans Megahorn.
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Minus double 120 STAB, proper Ghost coverage and a attack boosting trait.

I don't get it. What makes Quagsire such a good wall? 95/85 HP/Defense is good but nothing special, and Pinsir easily 2HKOs after a Swords Dance.
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I don't get it too...
But it sure makes a great tank.

(See what I did there? Oh and see Fishin's explanation if thats what you meant.)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat skiddle
Shineyoddish tore up my team with one on shoddy, and even my bulkiest guys got owned by it.

That might have more to do with you.
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No it's a well established fact that I only ever win because I use superpowerful pokemon or hax.
 
T_T lol, yeha, my team was Pinsir weak. But even my fast sweepers couldn;t touch it because it had Choice Scarf, and my slower guys were 2HKOd. I got the upper hand a couple times by predicting correctly, but I lost 3 guys to it : (

Yeah, props shiney oddish... that was a fierce battle :P


@ Foresty, how does it make me look bad if I got totalled by a pinsir? Most of the guys I really like are weak to fight or bug lol... Pinsir is like UU herra... YOU HAVE A HERRA WEAKNESS!!
 
Uhhhhh, I've been using Scyther in my UU team, and nothing can stop it. Usually I swithc it out because it's boring to 6-0 with it T_T

I'm running Jolly, 252 ATK 252 SPD. Aerial Ace, X scissor, Swords Dance, Baton Pass.

When a Steel comes along, I baton pass to Hitmontop and sweep with mach punch, or I pass to my crawdaunt and pwn with that.

I honestly belive it should be BL.
 
Would you please stop doing that? The way you're going about it, EVERYTHING "GOOD" will be BL.

You could pick virtually any potentially good Pokemon in UU, list its merits, and then whine for its BL promotion. So what'll be left in UU??

Oh! Ninetales has Nasty Plot and Hypnosis! BL
Aggron walls all the UU CB birds! BL
Etc.

I for one am against the unnecessary condemnation of Pokemon to the metagame-limbo that is BL.
 
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