Mareanie, Toxapex Discussion

UltiMario

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
This thing's definitely going to be a monster. Ludicrous defenses, Recover, Scald, Poisoning Protect, Toxic Spikes... It probably won't make a huge splash immediately due to the powercreep of day 1 meta drops, but as the meta develops I can really see stall utilizing this thing.
 
Solner

Solner

Merciless seems bad comepared to regenerator on the evolved form, but I can see the potential in merciless in LC. The base form's stats seem pretty good enough to take advantage of it there.
 
Ajwf

Ajwf

Yeah people in the OU room this morning are telling me stall is dead and I get this toy.

This thing is going to run recover/Scald/TSpikes with Payback/Sludge Wave/Haze as the last move on Stall near constantly.

Like the only REAL downside is mantine just got that amazing double buff (roost and +20 HP) so you're kinda pidgeonholed here. Then again double water+steel isn't an awful core and if I can find a way to make sure this 100% beats ZardX, it's going to be a staple forever.
 
TURBODERP

TURBODERP

Ajwf said:
Yeah people in the OU room this morning are telling me stall is dead and I get this toy.

This thing is going to run recover/Scald/TSpikes with Payback/Sludge Wave/Haze as the last move on Stall near constantly.

Like the only REAL downside is mantine just got that amazing double buff (roost and +20 HP) so you're kinda pidgeonholed here. Then again double water+steel isn't an awful core and if I can find a way to make sure this 100% beats ZardX, it's going to be a staple forever.
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For last move, how about Venoshock over Sludge Wave? You'll be getting the double base power often, and if you're running Merciless you can ignore boosting Clefable.
 
Ajwf

Ajwf

Nah this gen is going to have nigh-constant defog users I feel. Latis don't get creeped at all because entire gen is slow, Starmie is still spectacular due to speed/spin, Skarm/manatine/Zapdos/Water|fairy Tapu all have defog, Excadrill still in meta and some situational spinners coming out, I don't see hazards sticking long. Too many options to clear them and you almost can fit in two hazard clears on stall without an issue. +Gengar gets a hidden buff vs this in the fact that he now destroys toxic spikes. (I know people are counting that as a nerf, but I'm not sure what exactly was missing a ko on heatran before anyways. Landorus-T was probably going to kill tran with stone edge just as fast as EQ if he survived the hit, Excadrill was already mold breaker or KO with Sand Rush iron head).

I also don't think mericiless is that good anyways. Like you have this cute looking sniper kingdra discount mon, and kingdra w/sniper isn't even that good to begin with. You'd need more offenses because I'm guessing you're STILL weaker than Venusaur-M's bulky offense set even with crit venoshock and definitely weaker than Gengar, both which sport higher speed and venu who doesn't have bad defenses.
 
TURBODERP

TURBODERP

Is T-Spikes even worth a slot then?

Hell, since the Water/Fairy Tapu gets Defog and is pretty damn bulky, doesn't that kinda push Mantine out of the way entirely (sure, you're not IMMUNE to water moves, but you're not SR weak and have better physical bulk while having offensive presence)?
 
Full_Korbe

Full_Korbe

It kinds of a set-up fodder though... You do have Scald, like Alomonola and statues, but it seems to just sit there and tank. In fact, it seems annoying as hell xD.
 
Ajwf

Ajwf

Tapu Fini 70/75/115/95/130/85 Water/Fairy Misty Surge
Mantine 85/40/70/80/140/70 Water/Flying Swift Swim/Water Absorb/Water Veil

The key difference (besides obvious point tapu fini has better physical bulk to the better overall special bulk [which is considerable] for mantine) is Roost. Tapu Fini has no recovery.

Misty Terrain is cool (and will prevent burns, which is nice) but Water Absorb for situation should be better since Tapu Fini doesn't take advantage of the lowered damage from dragons (effective value of the move is down compared to what it'd be on a non-fairy).

In terms of how they partner with Toxapex, it's hard to say. Like Tapu Fini definitely likes the poison resist but Mantine takes away the ground weak from Toxapex. Also remember that Tapu Fini's ability hurts Toxapex's spike stacking even more (can't take non-volatile status while misty terrain is on the field for grounded mons, and Tspikes obviously only affects those grounded.
 
Bombkirby

Bombkirby

Ajwf said:
I also don't think mericiless is that good anyways. Like you have this cute looking sniper kingdra discount mon, and kingdra w/sniper isn't even that good to begin with. You'd need more offenses because I'm guessing you're STILL weaker than Venusaur-M's bulky offense set even with crit venoshock and definitely weaker than Gengar, both which sport higher speed and venu who doesn't have bad defenses.
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Sniper makes crits hit harder. Merciless makes you always crit. That's amazing. Bypass boosted defenses, let's a normally weak tank hit hard. It wont beat out regenerator but it isn't "useless". I'd rather pass this to Passiman and co than regenerator.
 

AtheistGod

Karxrida said:
But they're not this fat.

Probably. Haven't had a chance to compare total bulk to Amoonguss.
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Using 248/168+/92 for both of them: Toxapex has 18.2% more physical bulk and 10.1% more special bulk than Amoonguss.

252/164+/92 is strictly better for Toxapex, and Toxapex will certainly use some other stat distribution to strength the special bulk and possibly give it some offensive capability.
 
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zferolie

zferolie

When I first saw this guys image in the demo datamining I knew I wanted it for my sun team. Now seeing the stats and ability and new move I am sold. Yes reginirator is great if you want him to but a pure stall, but it also has recover, plus you can give it black sludge, and a protect move so its naturally going to be healing a lot.

This New ability and move has some great implications. its actually pretty good that its stats is so low because auto crit is insane. While Toxic spikes is more reliable with defog looking to come back, plus rapid spinners, it will be hard to use reliably. The protect one while it only does it to physical moves will be my choice.

TURBODERP said:
Changed Tentracruel's stats to be Toxapex's.

0 SpA Tentacruel Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable on a critical hit: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even with that base 53 SpA.

Yea, Merciless is niche but good (if you can maintain poison, but that's probably quite doable). Regenerator though is absurdly good, so it's probably better.
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As soon as i saw it had that protect move and veno shock I was sold on using veno shock. you just confirm the damage numbers I was imagining.

Veno shock
BanefulBunker
Recover/Toxic/Toxic Spikes
Surf

Not sure if we can discuss team combos but I was thinking with its incredibly low special attack, you can team him with Polisand quite easily for a free Defence boost for the sand ghost with little damage taken, plus it can heal it off.

Also I was planning on using an Alolan Ninetails already... and a Double screen on this guy means he will be taking like zero damage
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Let's see...
  • 50/152/142 Bulk
  • A Spikey Shield that poisons on contact
  • Regenerator / Recover
  • An alternate signature ability that gives you interest on top of it's access to Toxic Spikes / Venoshock
  • Eh... did I miss anything?
I fear Stall isn't quite dead yet...
 

dracometeo

You know, Salazzle can support this Pokemon on Double with this set:
Salazzle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock
- Flamethrower / Encore
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Poison Gas
- Fake Out / Protect
Note:
-244 Ev is enough to outspeed 252+ Spe Mega Rayquaza
-Poison Gas is good for supporting Pokemon that use Venoshock like Toxapex
 
zferolie

zferolie

dracometeo said:
You know, Salazzle can support this Pokemon on Double with this set:
Salazzle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock
- Flamethrower / Encore
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Poison Gas
- Fake Out / Protect
Note:
-244 Ev is enough to outspeed 252+ Spe Mega Rayquaza
-Poison Gas is good for supporting Pokemon that use Venoshock like Toxapex
Click to expand...
Wouldn't toxic be better then poison gas? Other wise thats a good combination
 

dracometeo

zferolie said:
Wouldn't toxic be better then poison gas? Other wise thats a good combination
Click to expand...
Poison Gas affects all adjacent foes, but not allies. Good for Double because it hits all opponent's Pokemon.

Toxapex @ Sitrus Berry / Safety Google
Ability: Merciless or Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock /Scald
- Ice Beam / Liquidation / Venom Drench
- Recover / Wide Guard
- Baneful Bunker
Note:
-196 EV SpD survived 252+ SpA Vikavolt’s Thunderbolt with a minimal of 50.9%
-60 EV SpA can OHKO Landorus-T if Landorus-T poisoned
-Evs on the defensive side still need research.....
-Baneful Bunker + Toxic Spike + Venom Drench + Recover can be quite evil in Single
 
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