Battle Tree Discussion and Records

So, as I said before, I tried my hardest to build a singles team around Nihilego and well... I managed to reach 70 wins in the Battle Tree Super Singles before losing to absurd hax (Thunder paralysis + full paralysis + Thunder crit... make of it what you want). This is the team:


Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
Jolly nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut

This Pokemon is absolutely murderous. It must be seen in practice to be believed. If the opponent leads with something Kartana can OHKO, it's generally GG right there. The only problem is that (as I'll explain below) I really depend on Kartana's Focus Sash in order to survive certain threats.

As far as the moveset goes, Leaf Blade is its strongest STAB and its most spammable move. It does incredible damage, even to neutral targets. Smart Strike is its best Steel STAB attack. It has a mere 70 BP before the STAB bonus, but it never misses and it is useful to nail Fairy-types and a variety of Pokemon which resist Grass-type moves (such as Dragon/Flying Pokemon). Sacred Sword is Kartana's best coverage move: it has a solid 90 BP and hits a wide array of Pokemon for supereffective damage. The last slot was more of a toss-up between Psycho Cut and Night Slash (I've never been sold much on X-Scissor), but I eventually opted for the former because I liked being able to hit Poison and Fighting types supereffectively (and most of Night Slash targets tend to be quite frail to begin with).


Nihilego @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed
Timid nature
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

Due to Kartana's tendency to draw Fire-type moves, Nihilego has plenty of opportunities to switch in. It may be very frail physically, but its special bulk is superb: even Megazard Y in the sun does 35% roughly with Heat Wave. Unfortunately, Kartana is not as easy to switch into Nihilego's weaknesses (as I generally want to preserve Kartana's sash when possible), but since Nihilego's not leading (and when I switch it, it almost always gets the Beast Boost kill) it's less of an issue.

Power Gem and Sludge Wave are its obligatory STAB. Hidden Power [Ice] nails Nidoking/Nidoqueen, Flygon/Garchomp, and Gliscor. Grass Knot is for Ground-types who would resist Nihilego's STABs. Unfortunately this moveset is fully walled by Steel-types, but no matter which HP Nihilego picks, something will wall it regardless (hopefully it'll get Earth Power in a future game).


Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/180 Defense/76 Sp. Defense
Bold nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Rest
- Calm Mind

Here I wanted something to switch into Fighting-type attacks (as they're commonly physical and neither UB takes them well), as well as random Earthquakes. I also wanted something which could sweep in its own right when needed, since UBs are hard to switch into attacks too often. Finally, since Nihilego is specially bulky, I would've preferred something with an impressive physical bulk.

Slowbro fit all the checks. It walls most Fighting-types and eats Earthquakes with ease. It can set up and sweep on its own, thanks to its immunity to critical strikes and superb defenses. And, of course, it's nearly invulnerable to physical blows.

The moveset is self explainatory. Rest and Calm Mind allow it to set up even in the face of Toxic users, while Scald and Psychic are its basic STABs (with Scald carrying a nifty Burn chance which saved my ass a few times).





So, this is the team. It can often sweep unhindered, and it's very fun to use. Unfortunately, though, it has some serious weaknesses (one of which has been my latest downfall):

1) Espeon: In particular, Espeon-4 (Timid @ Expert Belt - Psychic/Shadow Ball/Grass Knot/Dazzling Gleam). The fact it outspeeds Kartana is what makes it so dangerous. Psychic nearly OHKOes Nihilego (doing 78.9 - 94.5%), while Grass Knot hits Slowbro so hard it does not even have time to use Calm Mind (73.7 - 88.1%). Kartana can OHKO it with Leaf Blade, but to do so, it obviously needs its Focus Sash intact. I did lose to this thing once, and since then, I've learned to try and preserve KArtana's Sash against any trainer which could have Espeon (as well as trying to set up Slowbro as early as possible against such trainers).

2) Mega Salamence: Also known as Salamence-4 (Jolly @ Salamencite - Double-edge/Earthquake/Dragon Rush/Crunch). It hits ridiculously hard and is incredibly fast. Even Slowbro is 3HKOed by Double-edge. The only time I met it, I managed to finish it off through recoil dmg + Kartana's sash, but if a trainer has both this and Espeon, there's no way in hell I can win. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything not named Celesteela or Skarmory which can sponge hits from this monster (and both have awful sinergy with Kartana).

3) Fast Electric-types: Jolteon, Raikou, and Zapdos in particular. The former two can outspeed everything I have, and even Nihilego is hardly a safe switch in (my latest loss was caused by a Raikou's Thunder paralyzing and then critting Nihilego). Zapdos is slower, but the problem is that Kartana can hardly do any dmg to it (so, unless Nihilego is still around, I'm generally fucked).

Now, technically, most of these weaknesses can be played around, but Salamence in particular is extremely dangerous. I would love to try and cover it somehow, but I can't think of anything which can replace Slowbro and cover these things without leaving me exposed to all the mons (such as, say, Conkeldurr, Metagross, etc.) which Slowbro checks. At worst, I'd be willing to consider replacing Kartana for the sake of sinergy (as in, if you can suggest a good partner for a Celesteela + Nihilego setup), but I'd love to keep Nihilego if possible.


P.S.: As you might guess after having read all this... Togekiss is not a good choice for the 3rd slot.
So sad that I didn't soft reset for a HP Ice Nihilego. Caught her really early with a Timid nature and I thought that she wouldn't need any HP with her coverages, but atlas.

Despite that, my Nihilego is still doing so much work in the Battle Tree with just a simple set of:

Nihilego @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk l 4 Sp. Def l 252 Speed

~ Power Gem
~ Sludge Wave
~ Grass Knot
~ Dazzling Gleam

Definitely my most favorite UB, followed closely by Buzzwole.
 
I beat Red on a 50 win streak in the Battle Tree, though the results were questionable considering he used both of his water types. While I didn't record my losing battle, I immediately lost after this battle. Here's the team and video:



Ninetales-Alola (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze-Dry
- Moonblast
- Encore



Incineroar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 90 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Cross Chop
- U-turn



Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch

Video Code: DJHG-WWWW-WWW2-99NH
 
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Bro, you dont need to use a single EV in defense on Slowbro and neither a bold nature. I would suggest 252 in spdef and a modest nature so you can Ice beam (maybe for calm mind).
You do need the defensive EVs if you intend to switch into physical threats (keep in mind you might also have to sponge stuff like Scizor's X-Scissor on this team)... and why would I drop Calm Mind? That way Slowbro is helpless against so many special attackers
 
Lost on battle 69 with the following team:

Primarina @ Expert Belt
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 168 HP/252 SpA/88 Speed
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
Sassy Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield


Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast

Battle Video: CRQW-WWWW-WWW2-CESW
I've finally got my Tapu Koko to level 100 and bottle capped so I'll be trying to replace Primarina with it and see how high I can get. Any advice would be really helpful!
I have another streak with a different team (Mega Kangaskhan, Aegislash, Golisopod), but it only made it to 51 before folding. (Here's the video for that: 7T7W-WWWW-WWW2-CFWM)
 
iVolke: I might actually try Pheromosa and see how it goes, thanks for the suggestion. I just hope I won't miss that 181 base Atk though...

EDIT: Actually it just dawned to me that, if I made Pheromosa max speed, Beast Boost would boost speed, which would make it kinda moot. That's too bad.

EDIT2: Actually, if I make Pheromosa Adamant (or Naughty, or Modest, or Rash...) I can put enough EVs to reach 201 speed (outspeed anything up to Timid Jolteon) and still have higher Atk (or SpA)... so it's worth consideration
I think the SpA Pheromosa is going to be best in battle tree. U-Turn/Ice Beam/Bug Buzz/HP Ground has the best overall coverage. I don't love her fighting options on either size.

You could argue Rash or Modest on that set. In reality, its 16 attack vs 6 special defense. It makes almost no difference in the scheme of things, as U-Turn isn't there to really net much damage in this situation, but more to let Pheromosa live to see another day.
 
I just beat battle 50 in Super Singles for the first time. Red used Mega Charizard X, Blastoise and Venusaur.

I forgot to save the video, but the battle went like this.

Charizard evolves and uses Dragon Dance
Dragonite used Dragon Dance
Charizard used Dragon Rush and misses
Dragonite used Earthquake (OHKO)
Blastoise sent out
Charizard used Outrage (~99% damage)
Blastoise used Blizzard and misses
Blastoise used Custap Berry
Blastoise used Blizzard (~60% damage IIRC)
Dragonite used Outrage (KO)
Dragonite ate Lum Berry
Venusaur sent out
Dragonite used Outrage (~70% damage, not enough for Salac Berry to activate otherwise Venusaur would outspeed Dragonite next turn)
Venusaur used Sludge Bomb (Dragonite barely survives)
Dragonite used Outrage (KO)

I can't for the life of me figure out how Blastoise and Venusaur survived the first Outrage from a +1 Dragonite. By my calculations, +1 Atk(31 IV, 252 EV) Adamant Dragonite Outrage vs 154 HP / 120 Def Blastoise or 155 HP / 103 Def Venusaur should both OHKO. Both those Venusaur and Blastoise HP/Def stats are from the Google docs linked earlier.

Anybody want to double check my calculations? I feel like I'm going crazy here. Either I'm missing something, or the spreadsheet stats are not correct.

EDIT: Figured it out. The stats listed in the spreadsheet don't include EVs. +252 HP Blastoise-4 can survive +1 Outrage. Venusaur-4 can easily survive +1 Outrage. I assumed Venusaur-3 because he already used Mega Charizard. Guess the AI can put 2 mega stones on the same team. Glad I know now. Aegislash and Tapu Fini could have beat weakened Blastoise and full health Venusaur, but under other circumstances, lacking this knowledge could be bad.
 
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So I had a question about scouting for Multi Battles, if anyone has encountered this. I've scouted twice now and both times it gave me the exact first 2 pokemon I encountered when I faced them. They have used them in chronological order each time as well, in spite of over 10 attempts. Comparatively in ORAS, Steven Stone seemed to prefer leading with Aerodactyl, but if you tried enough times he would sometimes lead Metagross.

So I guess my question is this: is this is a for sure set thing for scouting in Multi battle? You always get the first two Pokemon you face, in that order as your teammate?
 
consider rockium z + stone edge. i know you said no to stone edge, but the z move is 100% accuracy and should be strong enough to overpower even at neutral effective. you get the beast boost after using it which sets you up on all your other moves, and you can avoid using stone edge afterwards while gaining a 1 pp rock nuke.
I just tried teaching mine rock slide or stone edge. It learns neither. I have a naïve nature with max speed and attack investment on mine. The power is underwhelming as hell except for HJK. I'm running a wide lens. Thinking of switching to life orb and brick break cause poison jab doesnt KO stuff it's supposed to and ice beam only kos stuff that's 4x weak.

Definitely going to try and SR a naughty one, just waiting on a ev spread worth using. I can't seem to figure out the most effective one.
 
Hey everyone, I’ve just recently started playing Pokemon again with Sun and Moon, and was wondering if someone could give me some advice on who to add to this singles team, as well as EV spreads: (Is this even the right thread for this?)

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
(I imagine Attack should be maxed, but what about the other stats?)

Toxapex @ ????
Ability: Regenerator
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
(I’ve seen 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD thrown around)

It took me two days of chaining for abilities and breeding to get these two. The Dragonite has perfect IVs (I got really lucky to get that so quickly), and I think that is a moveset I stole from somewhere in this thread. The Toxapex has all 31 IVs except for Attack (which it doesn’t need?).
 
You do need the defensive EVs if you intend to switch into physical threats (keep in mind you might also have to sponge stuff like Scizor's X-Scissor on this team)... and why would I drop Calm Mind? That way Slowbro is helpless against so many special attackers
He can switch in almos anything that is not super effective, and i just dont think that he is the best mon to take Scizor's (or Mega) X-Scissor, for that go with a Flying mon (Like Mega Mence). And if you invest those Evs in Special Defenses like i said then he is completely usefull against those special attackers. I recommend using Ice Beam because even Life Orb HP from Nihilego is just weak, and Mega Bro has good special attack to 2HKO mons that Nihi cant.
 
Hey everyone, I’ve just recently started playing Pokemon again with Sun and Moon, and was wondering if someone could give me some advice on who to add to this singles team, as well as EV spreads: (Is this even the right thread for this?)

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
(I imagine Attack should be maxed, but what about the other stats?)

Toxapex @ ????
Ability: Regenerator
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
(I’ve seen 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD thrown around)

It took me two days of chaining for abilities and breeding to get these two. The Dragonite has perfect IVs (I got really lucky to get that so quickly), and I think that is a moveset I stole from somewhere in this thread. The Toxapex has all 31 IVs except for Attack (which it doesn’t need?).
Toxapex @ black sludge or rocky helmet

As for your teammate, I don't know. Your biggest threat is electric. So a grass or ground type would be nice. However that might give you too much of a weakness against ice if you're combining with dragonite. Maybe mega steelix?
 
Are the old pokemon's sets still the same? (I don't have sun/moon yet)
They changed some a little, mainly to not have attacks that can't be obtained without Pokemon bank yet.
Hey everyone, I’ve just recently started playing Pokemon again with Sun and Moon, and was wondering if someone could give me some advice on who to add to this singles team, as well as EV spreads: (Is this even the right thread for this?)

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
(I imagine Attack should be maxed, but what about the other stats?)

Toxapex @ ????
Ability: Regenerator
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
(I’ve seen 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD thrown around)

It took me two days of chaining for abilities and breeding to get these two. The Dragonite has perfect IVs (I got really lucky to get that so quickly), and I think that is a moveset I stole from somewhere in this thread. The Toxapex has all 31 IVs except for Attack (which it doesn’t need?).
52 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 188 Spe for Dragonite to give some bulk for Roost.
 
Y'know, I've noticed something a bit off in the Battle Tree. Nearly every other time I use Meteor Mash (or any other 90% accurate move, for that matter), I'll inevitably miss. Yet I don't think I've ever seen a CPU in the Tree miss Stone Edge or Fire Blast, two 80% accurate moves, once. Hmm...
Another oddity I've noticed in the Tree is the consistent phenomenon of base 80's and 85's outspeeding my Mega Metagross, a base 110 Speed mon, even before I use Hammer Arm. At first, I thought they could just be holding a Scarf, but I've seen more than one of these mons either switch moves afterward or use a different item, so that can't be it. Are the trainers in the Battle Tree just cheaters or something? Because along with the constant RNG BS that I've been experiencing, that's what I'm kind of leaning toward at this point.
 
And you are sure that you have EV trained metagross to outspeed them?
I haven't taken the time to EV train my Metagross, but regardless, I don't think I should have to fully EV train a base 110 Speed mon just to be able to compete with in-game non-scarfed base 80 Speed mons when it doesn't even have a Speed-hindering nature. I seriously hope these base 80-90 mons aren't designed with perfect IVs and max EVs in Speed with a boosting nature on top of that just to confuse people, but at this point, I wouldn't even put it past them considering this is the Battle Tree we're talking about.
 
I haven't taken the time to EV train my Metagross, but regardless, I don't think I should have to fully EV train a base 110 Speed mon just to be able to compete with in-game non-scarfed base 80 Speed mons when it doesn't even have a Speed-hindering nature. I seriously hope these base 80-90 mons aren't designed with perfect IVs and max EVs in Speed with a boosting nature on top of that just to confuse people, but at this point, I wouldn't even put it past them considering this is the Battle Tree we're talking about.
Battle Tree is intended to be somewhat meta, not in-game. Some sets do use +Speed natures, and some even have +252 Speed EVs. There's nothing unfair about that. They also all have perfect IVs, which you can say whatever about. Stop complaining just because you're lazy, and go EV train your Metagross. It's super easy to do +252 this generation with the SOS battles. If you're running Adamant, don't complain if some slower base speed with beneficial natures are still faster.
 
I haven't taken the time to EV train my Metagross, but regardless, I don't think I should have to fully EV train a base 110 Speed mon just to be able to compete with in-game non-scarfed base 80 Speed mons when it doesn't even have a Speed-hindering nature. I seriously hope these base 80-90 mons aren't designed with perfect IVs and max EVs in Speed with a boosting nature on top of that just to confuse people, but at this point, I wouldn't even put it past them considering this is the Battle Tree we're talking about.
The way you seriously hope they aren't designed is specifically how they're supposed to be designed, as the person above me basically said. It's the whole point.
 
Battle Tree is intended to be somewhat meta, not in-game. Some sets do use +Speed natures, and some even have +252 Speed EVs. There's nothing unfair about that. They also all have perfect IVs, which you can say whatever about. Stop complaining just because you're lazy, and go EV train your Metagross. It's super easy to do +252 this generation with the SOS battles. If you're running Adamant, don't complain if some slower base speed with beneficial natures are still faster.
Lol alright then. I guess I should have expected such a response from the Smogon forums. Either way, I know I might be weird for saying this, but I'm hardly willing to EV train my mons up for a gamemode that's only going to inevitably miss/flinch/confusion hax me at any given opportunity anyway, so it's whatever I guess. If the game wants to spike the difficulty like that, then 28 wins in Super Singles is good enough for me.
 
Lol alright then. I guess I should have expected such a response from the Smogon forums. Either way, I know I might be weird for saying this, but I'm hardly willing to EV train my mons up for a gamemode that's only going to inevitably miss/flinch/confusion hax me at any given opportunity anyway, so it's whatever I guess. If the game wants to spike the difficulty like that, then 28 wins in Super Singles is good enough for me.
It is the entire point of the format. You can choose not to play it, but being indignant about the fact that a feature designed to require things like EV training works as intended is just ridiculous.
 
Lol alright then. I guess I should have expected such a response from the Smogon forums. Either way, I know I might be weird for saying this, but I'm hardly willing to EV train my mons up for a gamemode that's only going to inevitably miss/flinch/confusion hax me at any given opportunity anyway, so it's whatever I guess. If the game wants to spike the difficulty like that, then 28 wins in Super Singles is good enough for me.
You asked why they outspeed you and got the answer, nothing wrong about that :) Remember that for most trainers, the battles during the storyline are quite easy, so the Battle Tree mode is specifically designed for those who want a greater challenge. And for that to be possible, the pokemon must have good IVs and EVs.
 
Hey all, I just completed my Super Single 50 streak and plan to go for 200. How can I see the code of my battle video? I plan to release my team for:
a) Super Single 50 streak (hopefully 200)
b) Super Double 50
c) Super Multi 50
d) Master Royal <--- completed

Thanks!

PS: If anyone could also tell me how to add sprites or images for the Pokemon used I'd be most glad
 
Lol alright then. I guess I should have expected such a response from the Smogon forums. Either way, I know I might be weird for saying this, but I'm hardly willing to EV train my mons up for a gamemode that's only going to inevitably miss/flinch/confusion hax me at any given opportunity anyway, so it's whatever I guess. If the game wants to spike the difficulty like that, then 28 wins in Super Singles is good enough for me.
You do realize that that with Isle Evelup in Poke Pelago, all you have to do is put your Metagross in there for 63 sessions(31.5 hours) of Speed training, and you will have max speed EVs? Repeat for Attack and you will have max EVs. The DS doesn't even have to be on. How lazy are you?

EDIT: Use berries to reset all your earned EV to zero before doing this for best results. You can use beans to speed it up if 31.5 hours is too long.
 
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