Yup.. Gengar is much more versatile, considering it also has explosion and counter to go physical
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Unified Diff of Smogon's OU vs Shoddy's 42 most popular
- Thread starter Dragontamer
- Start date
Yup.. Gengar is much more versatile, considering it also has explosion and counter to go physical
Everyone on shoddy's opinion > yours.
I appreciate your efforts, Colin. The metagame largely has you to thank for its development.
Caterpie and Rattata are more used that Victreebel!!
And Froslass is 53rd, whilst Glalie is 190th!
And Froslass is 53rd, whilst Glalie is 190th!
There is nothing surprising about that; Frosslass is a good hail-abuser, something with the ability to switch in Normal and Fightning attacks, and has enough SA to OHKO Skarm and such with its STAB Blizzard; while Glalie is an overall shitty Poke which sees barely any use in even NU due to its craptastic typing and bad movepool. IMO Glalie is the worst Hoenn (XD) poke, the second being Luvdisc.
By far one of the best posts I've seen on Smogon is ages. Excellent work. Thanks!
Interesting, some surprises and I was amazed to see that Smogon's accuracy was closer than I had expected.
If Smogon does decide to base it's OU metagame from these lists(which I beleive is the right thing to do since OU is decided on by use), I'm wondering how will you guys decide on which tier the pokemon floating in and out of the range for OU percentage each month belong to.
If Smogon does decide to base it's OU metagame from these lists(which I beleive is the right thing to do since OU is decided on by use), I'm wondering how will you guys decide on which tier the pokemon floating in and out of the range for OU percentage each month belong to.
i think tentacruel is UU cause it can be countered in UU
basically, tentacruel can be used anywhere, there should be a seperate tier for him jsut cause he's like that
anyways, i like this list
i always knew empoleon should be OU...he friggen kicks ass
basically, tentacruel can be used anywhere, there should be a seperate tier for him jsut cause he's like that
anyways, i like this list
i always knew empoleon should be OU...he friggen kicks ass
Common sense please; OU is overused and if a (non-uber) Pokemon is more used competitively then most of the OU/BL pokemon, then that means it's overused and thus ends up in the OU tier.
I'd suggest that, since OU is based on usage, then we don't say "the top x Pokemon are OU". I'd say "the Pokemon having at least x% of team usage are OU". It makes more sense that way. It would also mean that the OU list won't always contain the same number of Pokemon, but would increase or decrease depending on how many Pokemon are used by more than x% of teams.
I agree with Abamasnow. In BL battles, once hail gets going, we have no way of stopping it unless we decide to run a random Pokemon using a weather changing move which will just get cancelled out when Abamasnow switches back in anyway. In OU, at least it's balanced with "switch-in weather changers" like Tyranitar or Hippowdon.
I agree X-Act. But I don't like the implications...
I chose that any pokemon used in more than 5% of the battles would be called OU. The idea behind this is that if you make a team that manages to counter all of those pokemon, you automatically have a game plan for quite literally 95% of your battles. (granted, I could have chosen 10% as the threshold... but 95% seems like the default one).
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=711853&postcount=7
With that in mind, this definition makes Froslass, Tentacruel, Crobat, and Ambipom OU. More or less, that means these pokemon cannot be used in UU battles if that is where the OU threshold goes.
On Smogon, there are no BL battles. There are only 4 kinds of battles:
1. Uber (Unbalanced)
2. OU
3. UU
4. NU (Unbalanced)
On Smogon, BL is the banned list for UU, much like Ubers is the banned list in OU. More or less, we don't care about how balanced BL is. We only care about the balance of OU and UU. Uber is only played because people sometimes like to play with banned pokemon, but it is generally accepted to be less balanced than OU and UU.
It is kinda strange, I know, especially because Shoddy has an option to challenge people for BL battles. But thats how it works around here.
Agreeing with Smogon's maths lecturer.
Twilight said:
Hold on there. Technically there is no real BL metagame - BL is just a tier used to hold Pokemon too good for UU. There is no need for balance within the BL tier.
According to your linked post above, a 10% threshold would literally halve the number of OU Pokemon to a mere 28, sending Weezing, Jirachi, etc. down to BL classification (if I understand tiers correctly).
You ought to be using your common sense. The tiers are only based on usage from BL to OU. If something can be countered easily in UU, it should be in UU, regardless of its usage. If it were to good for UU, and were in BL, and suddenly shot up in popularity, it would be moved to OU. You can't ban a Pokemon from a lower metagame because they use it in standard.
That's why we need to choose the percentage number carefully. Although what would be wrong if Weezing and Jirachi were BL (if they're not used enough)?
Kong, you're wrong. éyaang is right. I'd rather not argue with you, so here is the word of Obi. It isn't a common sense issue, it is a definition issue.
Dragontamer, could you do anything with the weighted list that Colin posted (i.e. format it in a fashion similar to your list in post #7)? There don't seem to be too many differences in rankings between the two lists, but it might be interesting.
Yes, Mekkah and Tamer, I've heard the speech 416 times. We all have. I know that Pokemon placed in BL has to do with UU, not OU. I guess I'll just have to deal with it. (and make a team utilizing Abamasnow.)
=].
=].
Uh, I'm kinda new here, so I really have no clue who or what Obi is. Is he an Admin?
Either way, I don't like his logic. UU and NU are supposed to be balanced metagames, so it wouldn't make sense to put Gyarados in there just because everyone stopped using it, nor would it make sense to ban Kingler from that environment solely because everyone started using them in their OU teams.
Considering Gyarados' strength, he'd be moved to BL, but I see your point.
Kong-- you can read the last page of the BL/UU discussion to hear Obi's explanation of Smogon's stance of the issue.
Anyway, the main point being that yes, UU is a balanced metagame-- BUT its whole purpose is to be a balanced metagame of pokemon that don't really see play in OU, because its a tier where players take a break from seeing the same OU strategies/pokemon again and again. If we let pokes like Tentacruel/Frosslass who appear in more OU games than many "OU pokemon," into UU, then we are essentially missing the whole point of having UU.
Anyway, the main point being that yes, UU is a balanced metagame-- BUT its whole purpose is to be a balanced metagame of pokemon that don't really see play in OU, because its a tier where players take a break from seeing the same OU strategies/pokemon again and again. If we let pokes like Tentacruel/Frosslass who appear in more OU games than many "OU pokemon," into UU, then we are essentially missing the whole point of having UU.