Considering Tapu Bulu is probably the least used out of the the guardians (Weakness to steel that his secondary typing doesn't cover and a quad weakness to poison, an offensive STAB that is literally ignored by Scizor, Celesteela, and Heatran although Heatran fears a Superpower, a terrain that sometimes helps your opponent more than it helps you, and vulnerability to Toxic Spikes without access to Defog) this reasoning is somewhat weak, especially since by virtue of typing Alolawak is pretty much a hard counter to Tapu Bulu anyways.
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Pokémon Alola Marowak
- Thread starter Groudon ex
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Considering Tapu Bulu is probably the least used out of the the guardians (Weakness to steel that his secondary typing doesn't cover and a quad weakness to poison, an offensive STAB that is literally ignored by Scizor, Celesteela, and Heatran although Heatran fears a Superpower, a terrain that sometimes helps your opponent more than it helps you, and vulnerability to Toxic Spikes without access to Defog) this reasoning is somewhat weak, especially since by virtue of typing Alolawak is pretty much a hard counter to Tapu Bulu anyways.
It's more a matter of what does Alolawak gain from running EQ over Bonemerang? They're the same BP, Bonemerang isn't inhibited by rare case of a substitute, and it's not subject to Grassy Terrain's penalty like Earthquake is. The benefits are small but it literally costs Alola-Wak nothing to use.
And least used of the Guardians doesn't mean Tapu Bulu's a mon you can choose not to account for. Grassy Terrain goes a long way for defensive teams, and it brings more support to Bulu when run as part of a core, such as a FWG core with Heatran or Toxapex.
It's a more easily controlled idea of zero-ing a Special attacker's ATK IV: It's a miniscule benefit, but you don't lose anything of value for that benefit.
Regardless, unless you are really paranoid about that 90% accuracy, there's no downside on running Bonemerang over Earthquake. Its advantages are admittedly situational... but at least it has some compared to Earthquake itself :P
Also, while Marowak does not have any business staying on a Mimikyu just to hit through the Disguise with Bonemerang, Mimikyu cannot switch in even with the Disguise up as it's much more vulnerable to priority after the two hits than usual.
Also, while Marowak does not have any business staying on a Mimikyu just to hit through the Disguise with Bonemerang, Mimikyu cannot switch in even with the Disguise up as it's much more vulnerable to priority after the two hits than usual.
Leech Seed wants a word
Is this in support of bonemerang cause both moves have 90% acc and both moves are totally worth running? (edit: on their respective users)
No, because for me Leech Seed is more like Focus Blast than anything, I swear. (Leech Seed has missed 3 times in a row once, tilted me off the face of the planet) Bonemerang isn't like this for me, but maybe it's because I don't run Alolawak on my teams very often. I do admit that being able to bypass Grass Terrain is an asset, but I'm very far from being sold on Tapu Bulu's effectiveness in the meta when he has a gigantic load of baggage on him.
Tapu Bulu is still a powerful and common threat, and needs to be accounted for. You can not ignore it. Also, Marowak is NOT a counter to Bulu. Hell, it isn't even a check.
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 149-176 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 223-263 (68.8 - 81.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 140-165 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
He's still a check to Bulu since Fire Blast one shots him easily. He just can't switch in on Bulu, but Marowak can still revenge kill.
Marowak serves as a shaky one-time check to non-CB Bulu provided rocks are not up. However, I was objecting the the implication that Tapu Bulu is somehow not noteworthy when discussing the meta. This is patently false. Tapu Bulu is common enough for Bonemarang to be a good replacement for Earthquake.
Is a bulky set viable with Rock Head as an ability? Having a giant recoil-less Flare Blitz on top of a Marowak that refuses to die otherwise seems to take advantage of the set well.
I think too much emphasis is being placed on Tapu Bulu versus Marowak and not enough on Tapu Bulu paired with Marowak. They have almost-perfect type synergy (Bulu resists Ground, Water and Dark for Wak and Wak resists Poison, Fire, Ice and Steel for Bulu) and I don't think need to say how much Wak enjoys the extra recovery.
I'm really stubborn about this no-recoil thing. Problem is that supporting Will-o-Wisp and retaining solid STAB means sacrificing space for RestTalk, and I can't think of a replacement for the tanky dude.
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Substitute / Protect / Swords Dance / Rest (for doubles? don't want to pass up on the Club)
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Substitute / Protect / Swords Dance / Rest (for doubles? don't want to pass up on the Club)
flare blitz defeats the entire purpose of using marowak. fire punch is superior. why?
1. one flare blitz and marowak's utility just got thrown out the window. the recoil means marowak can no longer check tapu koko, pheromosa, and magearna for example.
2. stall. a lot of people believe stall took a huge hit this generation making it bad, but that's completely false. it's still the most mindless, rage-inducing, and "i can still win despite playing like ass" playstyle. check the replays of the people who got reqs and stall is one of the most easy ways to achieve them, yet people don't realize you can eat stall alive by putting fire punch on marowak. now stall can't switch around expecting you to eventually die from recoil. on top of that, marowak can get rocks on stall making it even more terrifying in practice.
3. i have noticed a lot of players are hesitant to click flare blitz because they realize the recoil puts them in range to get swept by lele's moonblast for example. using fire punch eliminates this factor. the extra power is rarely needed anyways.
you are honestly doing yourself a huge disfavor using flare blitz on marowak. flare blitz turns marowak from a solid a- rank 'mon to a b rank 'mon at best.
1. one flare blitz and marowak's utility just got thrown out the window. the recoil means marowak can no longer check tapu koko, pheromosa, and magearna for example.
2. stall. a lot of people believe stall took a huge hit this generation making it bad, but that's completely false. it's still the most mindless, rage-inducing, and "i can still win despite playing like ass" playstyle. check the replays of the people who got reqs and stall is one of the most easy ways to achieve them, yet people don't realize you can eat stall alive by putting fire punch on marowak. now stall can't switch around expecting you to eventually die from recoil. on top of that, marowak can get rocks on stall making it even more terrifying in practice.
3. i have noticed a lot of players are hesitant to click flare blitz because they realize the recoil puts them in range to get swept by lele's moonblast for example. using fire punch eliminates this factor. the extra power is rarely needed anyways.
you are honestly doing yourself a huge disfavor using flare blitz on marowak. flare blitz turns marowak from a solid a- rank 'mon to a b rank 'mon at best.
The unbalanced exchange of offensive power vs defensive utility in a SpDef set like this makes it not worth the added power of running a rock-head tank vs a lightning-rod tank.
This is the damage from this set's flare blitz:
0 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 214-253 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And here's the damage from the (as much as can be right now) standard spread:
96+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
So the rocky-head set gets about 17% more damage on average, in exchange for losing the electric immunity. This next calc puts the nail in the coffin however, as this SpDef spread you'd think should be switching in on similar things to the lightning-rod set, koko's volt switch being a prime example:
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 149-177 (45.9 - 54.6%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO
You can't even tank, and if rocks are up you're only coming in twice, the second time to die on switch-in.
IMO, the selling points of alowak are, in order: Ghost/Fire + Lighting Rod, Thick Club, Rocks/Wisp, and a rock-head set will only really work on TR (in which case it should be devastating).
Might need to read what ability I'm using which is kind of the whole purpose of the attack.
Aight, that all makes sense, cool. Clearly can't get the best of both worlds easily and Rock Head does nothing for a defensive non-gimmicky build.
I think they were talking about general use of Alolawak's main set (the lightningrod offensive pivot), not necessarily aiming that comment directly at your set. Might be wrong but that's the impression I get.
The thing to be acknowledged is that, in the OU metagame, Marowak performs at A- Rank for the combination of traits that includes Lightning Rod with his typing, a major selling point that he loses by running Rock Head Flare Blitz. If you were to consider Alolan Marowak for RH Flare Blitz, it would have to be a very specific team need for him to not be an inferior choice to other high power attackers.
Yeah after coming across a few of them with Lightning Rod I can tell. But oh well it's shiny, sucks that I got impossible odds for the HA as well or maybe I'll go get another sometime.
Having used Fire Punch for a bit over Flare Blitz, I can wholeheartedly say
that it is garbage. Even on Adamant/max attack.
Yeah, Flare Blitz might come with the according cost, but Fire Punch just does NOT have the power to get the job done. It's just too weak. Marowak NEEDS Flare Blitz to be able to threaten bulkier threats. I will be switching back to FB posthaste, do NOT use Fire Punch unless you've got like a Swords Dance set or something I guess.
The only really relevant target I can think of that FB hits better is Tapu Koko. Genesect is OHKOd by punch, phero is OHKOd by anything, oh wait just calc'ed that you also get an OHKO on bulky magnezone with blitz that punch doesn't get, but overall, there's just not enough reason to use blitz outside of 'do more damage.' Admittedly, 'do more damage' is a v good thing on a tank, but your tank stops being a tank when it can't, well, tank, which blitz prevents. For example, if you come in with rocks up and OHKO tapu koko with blitz, good luck coming in again (not that koko is staying in anyway).
Also, shadow bone is the move you click the most, tbh my experience with alowak is like, 8 Shadow Bone for every 2 Fire STAB for every 1 Ground coverage. And the fire STAB is only used for SE hits and normal types.
Also also, you shouldn't be running max attack alowak unless it's on TR.
Honestly that's even less reason to use FP > FB, then. IDR exact matchups/scenarios, but I distinctly recall multiple instances were Fire STAB was what I needed and Fire Punch wasn't doing remotely close to enough damage to feel useful/threatening.
Flare Blitz is a poor choice on a Pokemon that tanks with the power of its typing (and Lightning Rod), but has no recovery and is very weak to hazards.
You don't want it to be worn down even more than usual...
As much as it would like to deliver even harder-hitting attacks, Flare Blitz is counter-producing (unless you are perfectly happy with the extra support it would require) and Fire Punch is more reliable.
You don't want it to be worn down even more than usual...
As much as it would like to deliver even harder-hitting attacks, Flare Blitz is counter-producing (unless you are perfectly happy with the extra support it would require) and Fire Punch is more reliable.
You haven't listed a single relevant defensive threat.
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 218-260 (60 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 138-164 (38 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 154-183 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 217-256 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.4 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 160-190 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 114-135 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Without Flare Blitz, you get stopped by Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. You know, actual defensive threats.
Hell, you even struggle against Chansey.
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 258-304 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
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