As much as I love Mystery Dungeon 2, it is painfully slow to get in to, you're just doing chores until the expedition.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
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As much as I love Mystery Dungeon 2, it is painfully slow to get in to, you're just doing chores until the expedition.
Along those lines, I think that (at least as far as the main series is concerned) there is yet to be a "really bad" Pokemon game. Formulaic and same-old-same-old they may be, but it's a formula they do well enough with to get fans in line to buy and enjoy every game.
Exactly - though that's part of the problem. Pokémon plays things extremely safe; meaning that the games will always be good and I won't regret picking them up - but they don't take risks. And while that ensures there won't be a terrible game, it also means there won't be an incredible breakout game either.
I apologize if there's any wrong information here. It's been a long time since I've played Guardian Signs.
Maybe it's just me, but I loved playing it the first time through. Unfortunately, when I tried to play it a second time, it just seemed extremely bland and boring. The charging styler system also made it much easier. I still have fond memories of it though. I remember being genuinely excited for the end game boss gauntlet, and they were all extremely creative. I also loved how well implemented that the support Pokémon were with multiple uses and much more unique attacks. This almost made up for the fact that Pichu was the only partner Pokémon (in the present that is). I missed the special missions of rescuing a Pokémon for it to join you as a partner in Shadows of Almia. It does have my favorite part of the series of all time in the time travel quests. It was irritating that some bosses almost required multiplayer. I remember how close I would get on the Feraligatr boss but always ran out of time. I gave up on the impossible Deoxys mission as well since I was certainly not going to clear that one. It's certainly my favorite game in the Ranger series, but it's too easy, has boring villains, and removes some cool features from previous games. Maybe I'm being too critical of it, but I wouldn't call it phenomenal.
Huh. I really want to replay the game now that I've been talking about it.
I feel like if Game Freak would realize that their original fans are now much older, they would take some more creative liberties and actually make an amazing, outstanding Pokemon game. We don't need another bland, soulless, babyish storyline that won't satisfy us. We can handle a bit of darkness and emotion in our games. X and Y, in my opinion, had the blandest, meh-ist storyline out of any main-series Pokemon game to date. That was because Game Freak decided to target young kids instead of the people that got the series on its feet in the first place. Like, I get it if you want younger people introduced to the Pokemon franchise, but can we have at least a little bit of edge? Kids aren't stupid. They can handle a bit of emotion perfectly well. Just look at what Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask did to the Zelda franchise. Many people have fond memories of those games when they were kids, and they're FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH EMOTION AND EDGE. Especially Majora's Mask. That game was dark, man. Majora's Mask also dumped the formula of every single Zelda game before to take creative liberties, and many people consider it to be one of the best Zelda games to date. Luckily, Game Freak seems to be getting on the right track (at least in terms of storyline) with Sun and Moon. With dynamic and fleshed-out characters like Lillie, hopefully Game Freak will start getting their act together.
Codraroll I disagree with the claim that there isn't a truly great Pokemon game. Just because something has flaws in it, or may be missing content that you feel should be there, shouldn't detract from the outstanding achievements these games reached. Let's look at this from a broad perspective: this children's game drew in many kids and adults alike because of its characters, story and deep battle mechanics. This is also the reason why many children grow into adults with a love of these games. Being such a tightly woven and knowledgeable community means we can nitpick the games for what they could've been, but you can't say that there are no truly great Pokemon games because they've created an entire community with love for these fantastic games. That's why we're all here, right?
Perhaps I should have reworded it slightly - the games are great, by all means, but most of them have included an element of profoundly stupid design choices, making basic mistakes that hamper the games' replayability. Something that easily could and should have been addressed in the QA process. The games aren't bad, but they're not as good as they could have been if somebody just had taken time to address some easily fixable issues.
Some games are affected to a lesser degree than others. I couldn't find crippling flaws with BW2, for instance, and HGSS were good games too (well, the level curve...). It may be because it's the latest pair of games, but I consider Sun and Moon to be among the worst in this regard - after so many games getting it right (or at least doing it better), it's astounding how many mistakes were done with Sun and Moon. Did nobody at any point realize that players might have become a little tired of Gumshoos and Pelipper by the time they reached the final island? Or question whether players had got sufficient ways to level up their Pokémon all the way to Lv 100, in light of the recently-introduced Lv-100-only mechanic? Or checked whether the newly introduced Pokémon were prominent enough in-game for players to want/bother to catch them?
Some games are affected to a lesser degree than others. I couldn't find crippling flaws with BW2, for instance, and HGSS were good games too (well, the level curve...). It may be because it's the latest pair of games, but I consider Sun and Moon to be among the worst in this regard - after so many games getting it right (or at least doing it better), it's astounding how many mistakes were done with Sun and Moon. Did nobody at any point realize that players might have become a little tired of Gumshoos and Pelipper by the time they reached the final island? Or question whether players had got sufficient ways to level up their Pokémon all the way to Lv 100, in light of the recently-introduced Lv-100-only mechanic? Or checked whether the newly introduced Pokémon were prominent enough in-game for players to want/bother to catch them?
Some short thoughts on the current discussions in Pikachu315111-style:
(I know I'm partly repeating what others have said)
Pokemon designs:
Let me start by saying that I like almost all Pokemon, and almost all Pokemon designs. I don't think there's really any Pokemon that have an outright "bad" design, all of them have something good if you just look for it. However, I do have a preference for the newer Pokemon in terms of design. The reason (I think) is that I have played the games since the very beginning, so the old designs feel a bit boring compared to the newer ones which feel new and more interesting. Overall, my ranking of designs for the generations would be like this: 7/6/5 > 4/3 > 2 > 1. But as said, I don't dislike any Pokemon generation for their Pokemon or Pokemon designs. I also don't think they should ever stop making new Pokemon since that is one of the main things I look forward to every new generation. I also think that other things like Mega Evolutions, Alolan Forms and new forms in general are other good ways to create new designs as well.
"Great" Pokemon games:
I wouldn't say there has never been a really great Pokemon game as I think there have been many. To me, almost all games have been enjoyable for their time at least. But I don't think there has ever been a perfect Pokemon game. And I don't think such a thing can ever be made seen from an objective standpoint. Different people like different things in the games, so a perfect game isn't something Game Freak should ever aim for since it literally can't be made. You can't please everyone, so why bother trying? They should keep making great games, there will always be people complaining anyway as that is how this fandom works.
To me, no Pokemon game is perfect, they all have their positive sides and their flaws. I think B/W and B2/W2 have the most positives and the least amount of flaws, so they are my favorites in the series. On the other hand, I think HG/SS has the most flaws and the lowest number of positive things, so they are my least favorites. And everything else is in-between. I thought about doing a list of what I think about every game in short like Codraroll but it feels unnecessary and irrelevant so I'll skip it.
(I know I'm partly repeating what others have said)
Pokemon designs:
Let me start by saying that I like almost all Pokemon, and almost all Pokemon designs. I don't think there's really any Pokemon that have an outright "bad" design, all of them have something good if you just look for it. However, I do have a preference for the newer Pokemon in terms of design. The reason (I think) is that I have played the games since the very beginning, so the old designs feel a bit boring compared to the newer ones which feel new and more interesting. Overall, my ranking of designs for the generations would be like this: 7/6/5 > 4/3 > 2 > 1. But as said, I don't dislike any Pokemon generation for their Pokemon or Pokemon designs. I also don't think they should ever stop making new Pokemon since that is one of the main things I look forward to every new generation. I also think that other things like Mega Evolutions, Alolan Forms and new forms in general are other good ways to create new designs as well.
"Great" Pokemon games:
I wouldn't say there has never been a really great Pokemon game as I think there have been many. To me, almost all games have been enjoyable for their time at least. But I don't think there has ever been a perfect Pokemon game. And I don't think such a thing can ever be made seen from an objective standpoint. Different people like different things in the games, so a perfect game isn't something Game Freak should ever aim for since it literally can't be made. You can't please everyone, so why bother trying? They should keep making great games, there will always be people complaining anyway as that is how this fandom works.
To me, no Pokemon game is perfect, they all have their positive sides and their flaws. I think B/W and B2/W2 have the most positives and the least amount of flaws, so they are my favorites in the series. On the other hand, I think HG/SS has the most flaws and the lowest number of positive things, so they are my least favorites. And everything else is in-between. I thought about doing a list of what I think about every game in short like Codraroll but it feels unnecessary and irrelevant so I'll skip it.
Designs
All generations have their duds and their winners really, but I don't think there is one Pokémon that looks really bad, for my tastes naturally.
Games
The SM flaws are pretty evident, and others like the GSC level curve are bad too. Still I feel the whole series remains solid.
Though I'm glad we're having these conversations rationally, other sites would've gotten ugly fast...
Also two more unpopular opinions of my own because why not:
The Elemental Monkeys aren't that terrible
Honestly they look silly in a funny way, and they work well enough for their simple jobs: making the elemental weaknesses clear in Unova and being earlygame team members in Kalos. I get the series loves emphasizing their status as a trio and such, but it never gets too bad. Likewise...
The Eeveelutions are overrated
There, I said it finally. I get they're cute and more than the monkeys too, but I don't think they are cute enough to get such high attention. I feel tnis is a Pokémon version of the Cheerleader Effect and fans are seeing them cute in group and not as individual creatures. Also some of them are less than great competitively, why hello there Flareon, or are a pain for in-game teams, like Glaceon.
All generations have their duds and their winners really, but I don't think there is one Pokémon that looks really bad, for my tastes naturally.
Games
The SM flaws are pretty evident, and others like the GSC level curve are bad too. Still I feel the whole series remains solid.
Though I'm glad we're having these conversations rationally, other sites would've gotten ugly fast...
Also two more unpopular opinions of my own because why not:
The Elemental Monkeys aren't that terrible
Honestly they look silly in a funny way, and they work well enough for their simple jobs: making the elemental weaknesses clear in Unova and being earlygame team members in Kalos. I get the series loves emphasizing their status as a trio and such, but it never gets too bad. Likewise...
The Eeveelutions are overrated
There, I said it finally. I get they're cute and more than the monkeys too, but I don't think they are cute enough to get such high attention. I feel tnis is a Pokémon version of the Cheerleader Effect and fans are seeing them cute in group and not as individual creatures. Also some of them are less than great competitively, why hello there Flareon, or are a pain for in-game teams, like Glaceon.
My biggest gripe with the Unova Monkeys is something I have with a handful of Gen V mons in general; they're lazily designed. It's pretty apparent both design-wise and movepool-wise that Game Freak stretched two basic designs across the monkeys and their evos with some minor retcons to the typings.
Still, it's not as bad as the Genie/Kami trio using literally the same sprite across all 3 species with minor differences to coloring and such.
Still, it's not as bad as the Genie/Kami trio using literally the same sprite across all 3 species with minor differences to coloring and such.
I just want to address some points that Codraroll made. These are just minor refutes and opinions, so it's all in good fun:
For Generation 1, I think it's fine that the postgame was so limited. I don't think Gamefreak knew it was going to be such a hit, so it probably seemed unnecessary. At least we got Cerulean Cave.
Gen 2 had the massive postgame missing from the previous titles by including Kanto and Mt. Silver (and the Battle Tower in Crystal). Your point about grinding is valid, but I was never too annoyed by it because I loved the environments, music and sprites (I wasn't so tolerant of it in HGSS because I don't care for the remixed music or sprites). I can definitely concede this being an unpopular opinion because grinding's not really fun, and could be easily fixed.
Gen 6 postgame is really unforgivable; I'm less inclined to defend X & Y because they're my least favorite titles.
For Gen 7, I agree with encounter rates being a problem, most evident in Gumshoos and the appaling fishing encounter rates. I can't say much about the postgame because I restarted after beating the game the first time. I still believe the main game's strong enough to overcome these shortcomings, though.
Also, I think the base evolutions for the monkeys are acceptable; Pansage in particular's adorable. The evolutions are all underwhelming, however.
For Generation 1, I think it's fine that the postgame was so limited. I don't think Gamefreak knew it was going to be such a hit, so it probably seemed unnecessary. At least we got Cerulean Cave.
Gen 2 had the massive postgame missing from the previous titles by including Kanto and Mt. Silver (and the Battle Tower in Crystal). Your point about grinding is valid, but I was never too annoyed by it because I loved the environments, music and sprites (I wasn't so tolerant of it in HGSS because I don't care for the remixed music or sprites). I can definitely concede this being an unpopular opinion because grinding's not really fun, and could be easily fixed.
Gen 6 postgame is really unforgivable; I'm less inclined to defend X & Y because they're my least favorite titles.
For Gen 7, I agree with encounter rates being a problem, most evident in Gumshoos and the appaling fishing encounter rates. I can't say much about the postgame because I restarted after beating the game the first time. I still believe the main game's strong enough to overcome these shortcomings, though.
Also, I think the base evolutions for the monkeys are acceptable; Pansage in particular's adorable. The evolutions are all underwhelming, however.
Honestly the monkeys feel like the only time they went too far with a concept.
The swords of justice and the Kami trio are ridiculously inspired design wise, turning rumiantsa into figthers takes skill bro, and the trio have all their lore in their tail and typing its honestly quite genius design wise.
Not everything has to be probopass tier design to be smart.
Also name a single homage to gen1 in the unova dex that isnt a step further over the original, bouffalant takes taurous by storm with the joke concept and the mixmash of animals and freaking Conkeldurr gives machamp a run for its money as a construction worker slick, if anything the only one that underperforms aesthethic wise is jellicent wich makes it up for the gender gimmick and personality.
Seriously how on earth can one perceive the unova dex to be uninspired when even shit like gothithele takes the astral body concept beyond its logical progression and we get genius stuff like scrafty and reuninclus in dex, heck even maractus manages to be adorable despite its predecessor being the adorable creeper it has become in 3d.
The Pidove line. Alongside Hoothoot's, it's the only starter bird line I don't like.
At least they got the gender differences style right, which is something.
Honestly, if they had come later, the monkeys would have been something with Alolan forms or Island variations like Oricorio.
Speaking of which, I want to see a region set in proper South America, maybe make use of a Galapagos Island style "biome smorgasboard" as a Safari stand in.
Speaking of which, I want to see a region set in proper South America, maybe make use of a Galapagos Island style "biome smorgasboard" as a Safari stand in.
Uh, I'm not bashing the Unova dex as a whole, nor did I ever bring the comparison to Gen I in the equation; not sure where exactly all of that came from?
There are plenty of great and original designs in Unova, but there are also several cases where it's painfully obvious that Game Freak used the same design for several species, case in point: Monkey trio, Kami trio, the Klink line, and to a lesser extent, Throh & Sawk.
I think a lot of that has to do with the sprites though. I do like the Kami trio (the similarities to their designs adds more to their lore imo), but Game Freak could've at least gave the sprites different poses between the trio, instread of doing what looks like a bad C+P job. The Klink line having just extra gears added to them upon evolution isn't a new concept, considering its predecessor Magnemite did the exact same thing, but the extreme similarity between its evos is hard to look past; it's not uncommon for me to have to do a double-take between Klang and Klinklang.
They are mediocre on ingame runs, their only calling is superluck facade/airslash spam, however they are the regional birds that tried the hardest with the gender differences.
Unfezant got really shafted by BST distribution.
Klinklang and Magneton are Pokémon that benefit hugely from a switch to 3d, feed a Klinklang in Amie and you wild discover its jaw and how it's core works when rotating.
It's honestly miles ahead in design to Magneton on the interaction levels.
Some Misty fans deny my claims on Misty being unpopular in Japan.
I personally also claim that Misty won't be popular in any Asian country at all.
One person denied my claims because he feels that internet chat doesn't count when assessing the Misty's popularity in Japan.
(So, what should I base my claims on? Real life chatter that can't be proved on the internet?)
And the same person argued that Misty is very popular in the West, and he couldn't see why it won't be the same in Japan.
Well... Olivia is another one that's popular in the West but hardly liked in Japan, so you can't base popularity in one country and assume the popularity to be similar in another country.
But we can always look at polls, can't we?
I think these polls at least prove that Misty is not immensely popular in Japan.
I still don't know how to prove that Misty was very hated in Japan, I don't know what sort of evidence could convince people.
Most of these are learnt via real life chatter that can't be proved on the internet.
I personally also claim that Misty won't be popular in any Asian country at all.
One person denied my claims because he feels that internet chat doesn't count when assessing the Misty's popularity in Japan.
(So, what should I base my claims on? Real life chatter that can't be proved on the internet?)
And the same person argued that Misty is very popular in the West, and he couldn't see why it won't be the same in Japan.
Well... Olivia is another one that's popular in the West but hardly liked in Japan, so you can't base popularity in one country and assume the popularity to be similar in another country.
But we can always look at polls, can't we?
Poll 1 (probably done during ORAS)
http://enq-maker.com/result/aQxPgGf
May（AG）245 votes
30.2％
・Serena（XY）232votes
28.6％
・Dawn（DP）164票
20.2％
・Misty（無印）120票
14.8％
・Bonnie（XY）30票
3.7％
・Iris（BW）19票
2.3％
I think these polls at least prove that Misty is not immensely popular in Japan.
I still don't know how to prove that Misty was very hated in Japan, I don't know what sort of evidence could convince people.
Most of these are learnt via real life chatter that can't be proved on the internet.
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...Poor Iris.
But yeah, Misty fans are basically anine "genwunners" for the lack of a better word.
But yeah, Misty fans are basically anine "genwunners" for the lack of a better word.
I thought Misty is popular in the West even among non-genwunners.
But anyway, Misty was never a thing in Japan.
Meant more Misty fans like her for the same reasons Genwunners are like that: nostalgia and being first.