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NOC Why is there a gun in my popcorn? GAME OVER SCUM WIN
- Thread starter Panic Station
- Start date
- Status
uhhhhhhhh
Asek i actually do wanna shoot you a quick question, because i'm finally starting to care about this game and because you're still a strong towneread whose opinion i respect
basically it boils down to: one of the primary drivers behind me scumreading former hope is a discrepancy between his town meta and his play in this game. i feel like he typically tends to be a much more commentary-style player, and the belligerence he's expressed this game worries me
conversely, what's stopping me from fully scumreading moody (because his content IS pretty shoddy) is that it feels like he always plays like this. he tends to be confidently incorrect on a lot of things and generally stick to his guns, and i get that vibe from him this game?
would you agree with my assessment?
also (i lied i have two questions) what pushes blazade into the scumpile for you? like i said on the last page, i'm not fully comfortable scumreading him for the inactivity because we don't know if it's due to legitimate irl obligations or due to an inability to feign engagement as scum
basically it boils down to: one of the primary drivers behind me scumreading former hope is a discrepancy between his town meta and his play in this game. i feel like he typically tends to be a much more commentary-style player, and the belligerence he's expressed this game worries me
conversely, what's stopping me from fully scumreading moody (because his content IS pretty shoddy) is that it feels like he always plays like this. he tends to be confidently incorrect on a lot of things and generally stick to his guns, and i get that vibe from him this game?
would you agree with my assessment?
also (i lied i have two questions) what pushes blazade into the scumpile for you? like i said on the last page, i'm not fully comfortable scumreading him for the inactivity because we don't know if it's due to legitimate irl obligations or due to an inability to feign engagement as scum
Yes he alwasy plays like this but in the beginning he was very much not like this. This is why I'm confused. He's either town starting to pay attention or scum learning from me explicitly pointing out his towntells
who, moody?
as a preface: i think former hope and moodycloud are both two relatively new players that are still developing their mafia game. Between every game I think they will change tone and try different approaches as they continue to refine their mafia playstyle, and develop town / scum games similar to other respected players within this community. As such I don't rate meta as highly when it comes to reading them. Theres also the problem that this is such a different NOC from what is usually played that meta isnt very reliable in looking at common tells in certain players
That being said; I think your former hope read is well founded. I think this kind of stand offish tone kind of beckoning to be shot has been consistent through scum in this game... the flipped townies that have shown this have only been.. haruno and maybe twin? And yes this does definitely feel like a 'differant' game from former hope in relation to how he usually plays. One thing I will say about former hope is that as scum in OC NOC he lasted a lot longer then he did as town in a lot of his usual town games... and he tried as hard as he could to fly under the rader in that noc as mafia iirc. May be worth looking into.
I don't really see the same things from moodycloud. I think his tone this game has fluctuated quite a bit, and hasnt been consistent at all really. thats part of reason why i scum read him throughout the game, and why i'm still not gonna call him 'town' after the aura guardian flip.
blazade is scumpile for me for a few reasons. as i said, blazade as a town i think would of put some real effort into scumhunting at some point in this marathon length game, and i really cant remember anything of the sort from him. it also comes down to PoE as well - who within the remaining player pool makes sense for scum? Looking at this playerlist, I have myself and Flyhn who are town. Unclesam who I am fairly confident in being town. Moodycloud who has 'good' connections to the recently flipped aura guardian. Yeti who comes across as towny enough to make me not look in her way this cycle at the very least. Your tone has become more towny in this last cycle but that may be attributed to lurking scum who is now trying to make that final push to win the game, but I think its more likely your town. This leaves the other 2 players, and there is 2 remaining scum at this point in the game. I don't really have grievances with the other shots too much, but blazade / former hope make the most sense as scum for me right now.
I'm not beckoning to be shot, rather I'm taking the tone of don't shoot me, shoot literally anyone else. I have no scum buddies to protect, so all I as a town need to happen is for me and another townie to make it to the end.
Also I blatantly try hard in scum games, while in games like this I usually try to figure out a unique way to win. Ie, scum hunting being scummy in this game because theoretically the people who have the most interest in shaping who the shooter shoots are scum, since they want to prevent not only themselves from getting shot, but also their scum buddies where on a fundamental level town can win just by not getting themselves shot at.
Also I blatantly try hard in scum games, while in games like this I usually try to figure out a unique way to win. Ie, scum hunting being scummy in this game because theoretically the people who have the most interest in shaping who the shooter shoots are scum, since they want to prevent not only themselves from getting shot, but also their scum buddies where on a fundamental level town can win just by not getting themselves shot at.
seriously what
if you are town trying to not get shot you wouldnt be posting things like this and your exchange with moodycloud last page also displays general indifferance to getting shot
I honestly think you are floundering mafia at this point
Not be posting towny reasoning about how I don't have any scum buddies and thus I am fine with any shot as long as it's not me so that two town make it to the end and town wins? That's a weird thing for a scum to post.
To understand the reasoning, literally just think about how the scum can win the game vs how town wins. As in, scum need to be actively or at least attempting to divert the town shooter away from their own reads (if they are reading scum) and towards town. Playstyle wise, letting the shooter do their own thing is very risky and comes down to flat luck. Meanwhile, town only know of two confirmed townies, the shooter and themselves. Therefor, while reads are a thing, as long as the shooter isn't shooting them, there's a chance of hitting scum. Thus, people who are actively seeking town cred and trying to help direct the lynch are infinitely playing more to the scums win condition than towns.
To understand the reasoning, literally just think about how the scum can win the game vs how town wins. As in, scum need to be actively or at least attempting to divert the town shooter away from their own reads (if they are reading scum) and towards town. Playstyle wise, letting the shooter do their own thing is very risky and comes down to flat luck. Meanwhile, town only know of two confirmed townies, the shooter and themselves. Therefor, while reads are a thing, as long as the shooter isn't shooting them, there's a chance of hitting scum. Thus, people who are actively seeking town cred and trying to help direct the lynch are infinitely playing more to the scums win condition than towns.
i'm not entirely sure i understand what you're trying to say with the first post, but saying you're "fine with any shot as long as it's not me" is NOT a weird thing for scum to post. at least one scum has to make it to endgame; if you've been designated by your team as that person, of course you'd be advocating for you not getting shot
i don't really care about trying to analyze whether the second paragraph is scummy or towny, it's just aggressively incorrect. people trying to get town cred is about the towniest thing you can do in this game - if you establish yourself as town, that's one less option for the gunbearer to have to worry about. meanwhile, while the style definitely has to change since scum will likely employ a different strategy, scumhunting is most certainly a protown strategy. if nothing else, a person's response to pressure can indicate whether or not they're a strong village lean to the consensus, and as i said the town's best bet is for as many people to clear themselves as strong village reads as possible
now, are associative reads a great idea in this game? i'd argue not. hard bussing every member of your team is a viable strategy in this setup, and the mafia knows we know that, so it's impossible to tell whether or not that'll be the strat or if they'll hard defend each other just to counter that. the only semi-associative read we can truly rely on is if people sound awkward or manufactured when interacting with each other, and that's obviously nebulous.
the best bet is to keep an eye out for people's overall tone, effort level, and the sensibility of their progressions. progressions that seem forced are a big scumtell, because it indicates either a defense, a bus, or a disingenuous scumread on a villager.
the tl;dr is that scumhunting is protown regardless of setup if you go about it properly, and that i REALLY want former shot now, if not for being shady then for advocating for poor play
this logic falls flat on its face when you realise letting the gunbearer do their own thing without any input from the othr players is just putting this game down to coin tosses, whilst scumhunting from players puts the game into the players control, which would almost definitely lead to greater odds of a town victory considering how the gunbearer mechanic works
Being the last town standing along with the last gunbearer also only works if the gunbearer doesnt decide to shoot you - depending on how many scum are left its a 50-50 at best for town to win game in this kind of endgame situation
Opting yourself as the only player that shoud be taken to the end is (newsflash here) also how scum wins this game. You have provided no reasoning for anyone else to be that player throughout this game, and I have no reason to take your word that YOU should be that player. What have you done that provides any kind of reasoning for anybody in this game to town read you? Theres very little if any reasoning for me to townread you. I cant speak for anyone else but they arent seeing it either
Look at other players in the list. Unclesam pushed twin and myself into town position and kept us there - I see no reason for scum to do this, and this is why he has been kept in my town list for quite a while now. I don't like to talk about myself very much in mafia as its counterproductive to winning this format but I put flyhn and twin into a read slot where I said I would be confident for them to never be shot - is this scummy to you? Does this play against town win conditon?
Except if I had the luxury of knowing everyone's faction and was designated as the survivor, I'd be much more inclined to actually use that to gain town cred or push reads more fully. Then whatever floats your boat play.
Also I never said the gunbearer shouldn't scum hunt, in fact of course they should. Nor is scum hunting inherently anti town, but in this game, people who actively try to push someone to be shot are also simultaneously protecting someone else resulting in more likely plays from scum.
Additionally, again I bring up the fact that I was an early push from scum who buddied leet. Additionally, there's now 3/4 possible scum (Discounting myself, flyhn, yeti and US (after looking back at early game)) pushing me. It's quite curious.
Also I never said the gunbearer shouldn't scum hunt, in fact of course they should. Nor is scum hunting inherently anti town, but in this game, people who actively try to push someone to be shot are also simultaneously protecting someone else resulting in more likely plays from scum.
Additionally, again I bring up the fact that I was an early push from scum who buddied leet. Additionally, there's now 3/4 possible scum (Discounting myself, flyhn, yeti and US (after looking back at early game)) pushing me. It's quite curious.
good mindmeld asek
Former Hope if you're gunbearer, who do you shoot and why? who's your second? and if you had to pick someone to take to f3 with you, who is it and why?
Former Hope if you're gunbearer, who do you shoot and why? who's your second? and if you had to pick someone to take to f3 with you, who is it and why?
i hate to be blunt, but we're done with this topic. nobody agrees with you, it's ultimately irrelevant, and it's distracting from more lucrative lines of questioning
(re: the last line, bussing is a thing.)
Walrein is bad tbh, I think it is bizarre that that slot has skated by for so long and has consistently had terrible reads while never fighting strongly with anyone
Reading back through AG's posts more maybe I was wrong on Blazade and he's not a good shot here
Asek I'd be comfortable going to endgame with, Yeti I'm close to that on but not quite there
Former Hope I think is a fairly decent chance of Walrein partner, possible mafia otherwise but less likely imo
Moody I think is probably mafia if I'm wrong about Former Hope
So there are seven possible shots right now, and I think that Walrein is who I would 100% shoot if I had the gun. I think that FH and Moody are acceptable shots as well but imo Walrein would tell us more because I doubt that FH and Moody are partners based on recent interactions
Blazade and AG fought fairly consistently and AG scumread Blazade / pushed for a Blazade shot several times so I sort of think that he is village
Right now of the six non-confirmed cleans, I would rank them (towniest to scummiest):
Asek
Yeti
Blazade
MoodyCloud
Former Hope
Walrein
Come fight me Walrein, show me one place where you actually went after someone or go after someone now
Also name two people you think are mafia together and who you want shot
Reading back through AG's posts more maybe I was wrong on Blazade and he's not a good shot here
Asek I'd be comfortable going to endgame with, Yeti I'm close to that on but not quite there
Former Hope I think is a fairly decent chance of Walrein partner, possible mafia otherwise but less likely imo
Moody I think is probably mafia if I'm wrong about Former Hope
So there are seven possible shots right now, and I think that Walrein is who I would 100% shoot if I had the gun. I think that FH and Moody are acceptable shots as well but imo Walrein would tell us more because I doubt that FH and Moody are partners based on recent interactions
Blazade and AG fought fairly consistently and AG scumread Blazade / pushed for a Blazade shot several times so I sort of think that he is village
Right now of the six non-confirmed cleans, I would rank them (towniest to scummiest):
Asek
Yeti
Blazade
MoodyCloud
Former Hope
Walrein
Come fight me Walrein, show me one place where you actually went after someone or go after someone now
Also name two people you think are mafia together and who you want shot
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