NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

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KnightsofCydonia said:
Actually, this is the tide coming in and out thing I was mentioning. There's 4 players, you among them, who scumread him D1, shifted to Townread on D2, and then kinda pulled back those reads as D2 progressed.
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Moody obv towned at the beginning of today. then his content significantly decreased in quality. still a town lean but not lock town like I once thought. iirc hawkie followed me, dont remember if there were 2 others. at the beginning of the game I was also ready to have shubaka as lock town for his entrance but now with his awful activity he might just have been coached, it'll depend if he picks it up.
 
so king himself tries to shift the lynch from ullar onto haruno (both mislynches)?

that implies king/ullar would be more likely to be scum/scum but i know that is false and is also very early for scum!king to reveal by pushing for haruno.

it doesnt even make any sense that scum!king would push for haruno who is a chronic buffoon to be lynched over town!ullar (i get nobody else knows ullar is town but i got his role pm saying so so kek)

i guess maybe he thinks if there are too many people TvSing king/ullar, ullar flipping town would be an extremely bad look for him as scum and lead to him being lynched next.. but even then, you could gain a lot more saccing your slot for mislynching a Good villager than mislynch bait.

this doesnt make sense for scum!king to me but the dude often doesnt make sense as any alignment soooo

josh what is your reasoning for finding king/ullar to not be SvS but also king shifts the lynch off ullar onto haruno, as scum? since you said you were scumreading king instead of the ullar slot. i just dont understand that mentality of king saving 1 idiot town to lynch another, if he's mafia. it's idiot town 1 or idiot town 2, not good town 1 and idiot town 1.
 
fwiw i think i posted that its eerie how josh pushed the same angles that i had been (he went onto fh + king with me) / often raised something that had been floating in the back of my mind. im not going to say he cant be scum - its a possibility you always have to consider when up against a good player but i doubt it at this point. if i was scum josh i would of probably let the game die of apathy today anyway

i think the only thing i really dont see that josh keeps pushing is hitmonleet - i dont think he has a real scummy tone / push to his posts? if ya know whaeamean. just kind of feels like hes going throiugh the motions of everyone scumreding him whilst still trying to solve the game

king i think is scum but i really dislike him personally so bias there. yeti please read my engagement with king yesterday + analysis of those town reading king to try see if josh is the 'only person' who is pushing king with everyone else bw'ing. i guarentee you it isnt. hes playing even worse then usual in this noc.
 
asek what pages are those on, i MIGHT be able to read Something once i get to the event before it starts but ill be on fone so i need very specific posts to look at to read

i have to get ready now so im not gonna be reading anything in the next hour rip
 
Josh said:
king is scum because he personally attacked a town read among other things for no reason

leet is scum for forcing a read on me, it's a classic newbscum misyake. they believe they can't change their reads or thyol get called out for bsdprogression. leet initially scumread me for nothing and I townread him for it so he stuck with it even though there's nothing there.

knights might be town but is annoying and keeps posting useless shit among other stuff not on my mind rn
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Yeti said:
asek what pages are those on, i MIGHT be able to read Something once i get to the event before it starts but ill be on fone so i need very specific posts to look at to read

i have to get ready now so im not gonna be reading anything in the next hour rip
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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/matrix-12-noc-day-2.3602966/page-13#post-7344173 from here onwards is my interactions with king

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/matrix-12-noc-day-2.3602966/page-20#post-7345845 big analysis post
 
king/ullar aren't svs from interactions

I briefly checked my phone like twice near eod and was told king lynch was dissolving so I voted for hitmonleet not checking a vc. wasn't even aware of haruno, wouldn't have voted him

the thing is, when is as around the lynch was gonna be between king and ullar with most people accepting one as scum and one as town. /if/ it was tvs, it was a 1v1 that was going to resolve eventually, it's optimal for scum to push the lynch off of the pair completely so it's a later discussion. if it was tvt scum probably won't care because the other would be prime lynch material and haruno was primed for later. I'm not calling it optimal play but it is something I could see. the longer you avoid a 1v1 lynch the better. additionally, it was a less tight lybch. scum king didn't start the haruno lynch either, he just sheeped it.
 
asek, hitmonleet avoided eod. hes avoiding posting now. his reads have all been shallow and bad, like for example his baseless scumread of me that he forced himself into, /and/ when I called him out on it he first cherrypicked my iso and then switched his read anyways.
 
fwiw regarding the starting of the haruno lynch it was walrein that first pushed it hard, then jalmont / knights / king were the momentum votes iirc

i didnt move off of ullar and would of preffered that ship to sail but its not like i wasnt complicit in haruno being lynched
 
Josh said:
okay

so if people would stop posting about personal insults and actually played the game themselves it would be less of an issue. it doesn't help the problem.

anyways, I don't appreciate people trying to devalue my king argument to a personal attack. he insulted me, I insulted back. that's not why he's the lynch, there's people I've liked far less that I've played til endgame with on ms and had good results with.

he's the lynch because his attitude is in no way pro town. there is no town benefit to openly insulting a town read. that does not help the game and does not create useful discussion. it makes the person you town read more emotional and therefore perform worsw. then, discrediting my case to a personal attack and completely dodging my question. I wanted to see if he could justify his thought process in personally attacking a town read. he couldn't and instead changed the topic.

nothing king has done is pro town. if he IS town and we DON'T lynch him today we need to deal with him the rest of the game. that means i and any other townies scumreading him need to accept him as town. he's a free lynch for scum later. he has not contributed positively to the game. king is my strongest scumread. he needs rope today. if he flips town, that still helps me, though I highly doubt he will.
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a good start
 
Tired of waiting for Godot on assurance that Shubaka's not going to fly under the radar after mutual chainsaw scumtell. I'm dragging my bullhorn out tomorrow and getting Josh levels of annoying.

unvote
vote Hitmonleet
 
Josh said:
pushing one of the best players in the game when I've previously strongly scumread someone who is never their partner is opportunistic?

stop buzzwording at me and finish your catch up. I'm 100% voting you or king today and I'm impressed you managed to be this scummy and possibly turned my read around.
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Why do you keep saying "king lynch has too much resistance" but then you switch your vote to other people.

Texas Cloverleaf said:
Yeah pancake is lock scum

Completely ignores the context of that post, which was responding to king saying he doesn't care about working with townies and completely ignored the rest of my post which was full of content in order to push his own narrative against me.

You don't get more blatant misrepresentation than that[/quote]
You had said you wanted everyone to work together, I replied saying not everyone is town
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I've deathtunnelled townies before. doubt this is that, but rn it's a which is scummier situation with you and yeti. I don't keep saying that btw, but no clue why harunos as lynched over you yesterday
 
Josh said:
I've deathtunnelled townies before. doubt this is that, but rn it's a which is scummier situation with you and yeti. I don't keep saying that btw, but no clue why harunos as lynched over you yesterday
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Walrein, starts a wagon, gets scummy people jumping behind it in jalmont/knights/king, harumo jumps on board (6 on ullar, 5 on haruno), DLE votes late to tie it, at 10 mins to deadline I flipped my vote to prevent any possible tie lynch scenario

King had a good defense at the point his wagon stagnated that caused people to jump off to the other two wagons
 
I was the first one to push a lynch on haruno, walrein lynched haruno after I voted ullar for self preservation. I then put the lynch back onto haruno after walrein had told me to put my lynch back onto haruno to see if it would go anywhere
 
I'm fine with either king or hitmonleet as the lynch at this point, both top scumreads and compelling arguments against both

What I do want is for people to start collectively determining their stances asap, the wagons as they stand are in prime position for a tie vote and we need to start forming the primary/counter wagons well before eod
 
Thetwinmasters said:
Votecount
King (4): Josh, Asek, Texas Cloverleaf, Paperblade
Asek (2): Shubaka, Haruno
Ullar (2): Hawkie, Blazade
Haruno (1): King_
Hawkie (1): Ullar
Josh (1): Hitmonleet
KnightsofCydonia (1): Moodycloud
Walrein (1): Jalmont

Not Voting (4): Da Letter El, Walrein, KnightsofCydonia, Former Hope

Deadline is in about 7 hours.
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King_ said:
Unvote , vote ullar
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Walrein said:
i don't think i'm going to be able to finish this whole thing before deadline and still give myself time to vote lmao

i'm through page 5 right now. here's what i've got solely from those pages:

-Aubisio is town. 90% confidence (yeah I'm breaking my own rule, fight me). Two whole posts from him had more content than all of his other games put together, and the VT claim reads genuine.

-Asek's early content is decent. It's nothing that locks him in as town - as in, I could see him faking this as scum - but it's all generally protown stuff. Plus, I still like his level of investment. Town lean for now. I don't expect us to be able to resolve Asek this early anyways.

-Hitmonleet's entrance is towny. It feels like it has solving intent, and the Texas take is pretty decent.

-Speaking of which, I don't care about any "signaling" he did, I'm sus of Texas for much the same reason leet is - much of what he's done could be seen as pocketing Hawkie (in 92, he townreads him, and in 100 he directly defends him during the FH debacle). 92 has okay content, but it's nothing that scum!Texas couldn't manufacture (the Asek reading the rules thing is the weirdest and by extension towniest thing in that post and even that isn't so farfetched). Even if there's value to this signalling thing, he seems self-aware enough of his own meta to fake it, regardless of what he says.

-Moody's entrance isn't very good. His 104 reads tonally poorly, and his 106 is pretty empty and hedgey. The FH vote is low hanging fruit.

-I'm leaning town on Former Hope, actually. I think him trying to jump on Hawkie's "assumption" that there was a vig shows that he's actively thinking about the setup - since mafia already know the setup, they'll be less likely to be thinking about whether or not somebody has TMI on the setup, I think. The interaction with Hawkie feels genuine and I legitimately get the impression that he's trying to figure out Hawkie's alignment.

-I'm still leaning town on Hawkie. His playstyle seems town motivated - it legitimately seems like he's trying to stir productive discussion and figure out people's alignments, rather than just slinging shit. There's a few things here that I'll be keeping in mind if he does more that pings me, but he's fine for now.

-I'm standing by my Paperblade read from earlier - this tonally is how he always sounds. IDK if I've ever seen his scumgame so I can't say for certain whether or not it's alignment-indicative, but I think it's NAI at absolute worst. Additionally, I find myself agreeing with his thought processes in 118 a lot. Think this one breaks town.

-Hard null on Josh. I legit have no idea. This doesn't resolve itself today.

-Gut reaction is to townread shub for attempting to increase their contribution, but I've seen a similar "trying to improve my playstyle" thing as an opener wind up being scum. Rest is pretty null, there wasn't a ton more from him in what I reread.

-Blazade fitting his town meta. We still don't have scum meta on the guy. Sigh.

-Haruno's postcount-content ratio in the first 125 posts is conspicuous. He RVSes in 19, returns at 64 to say "the fuck is going on", RVSes AGAIN at 69, asks what points are worth addressing at 78, accuses Texas of posting "obvious shit" at 88. The most involved he ever seemed was when I asked him to be civil and he promptly OMGUSed me, then called for setup discussion. From what I read, it didn't seem like he was interested in actually trying to read people. Scumread.

Nobody else posted (or lack of posted) anything of note in the opening pages. Which means I basically have nothing except my skims to go off of for the top 2 (3 if you count Knights) wagons. Sigh.
Let me go do some ISOing I guess. Parking on vote Haruno for now. Anyone I listed above as a townread is someone I'd prefer not to lynch today (why does Asek have 2 votes?)
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Walrein said:
King_ if you want to lynch haruno then vote haruno lol. There's still 2 hours to deadline, far from time to lock in votes

Asek can you find me an example of Haruno seeming to know that King_ will flip town?
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Walrein said:
mob mentality means you're going to have better luck getting people to swap if you swap first, rather than just waiting for other people to do so

plus Asek's not a good lynch. I can kinda see where you're read's coming from? But I disagree with it. I'd rather your vote be somewhere else.
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The "I don't trust you because you might be scum" attitude coming from Moody seems familiar. I think this might be his Town game, but I'm not certain. There's a couple of things bugging me (confusing statement in 298 that was explained by someone other than him, repeatedly requesting an iso on known scum), but it looks like I was wrong about the pocketing.

Notes incoming.
 
KnightsofCydonia said:
Tired of waiting for Godot on assurance that Shubaka's not going to fly under the radar after mutual chainsaw scumtell. I'm dragging my bullhorn out tomorrow and getting Josh levels of annoying.

unvote
vote Hitmonleet
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I won't forget. I've commented on it and I'll remember it in the future. Like I said I'm not pursuing that today but shubaka isn't contributing so the read is decaying
 
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