Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[Randompizza]

I honestly agree kyub to B+ (once mmeta is gone, if it leaves) just do to the fact it has such raw power and can deal with so many threats in the meta including steel types. Yeah sure it's not super fast and is prone to steel type attacks, it can definitely crush an opponents team 1 mon at a time. It's also more flexible then most people think, too. Being able to run banded sets that RIP through stall with no effort (every mon gets 2hkoed) and duggy can't trap (eq is a 3hko, tectonic rage doesn't kill and then kyub 1 shots.) LO sets can run all sorts of coverage: hp fire to deal with ferro, zor. epower to deal with tran,etc. And it has it's new toy this gen: icium z, which 1 shots basically anything that isn't a resist and chunks basically all the other walls like skarm. In my opinion the best sets atm are LO, or band though. Especially band in my opinion, since it basically 2hkoes literally the whole meta outside of zor and ferro, literally.

Edit: duggy CAN trap but only if it's sash due to reversal.

 

[giovanidude]

A while back I advocated Kyurem to rise to B+. While I do enjoy Kyurem, I'm not sure if it deserves a rise. I do think Kyurem is better than all the other B rank mons, but I don't think it's as good as all the B+ mons. Mons like Latios, Bisharp, Tornadus, and Hoopa are much more consistent and serve a better purpose than Kyurem.
Sure Kyurem can hit common defensive mons with 4 attacks (Ice beam, Fusion bolt, Earth power, and HP fire) but I find that other mons just do it better. I think there's better options to pressure lando, tox/fini, growth teams. In fact mons like latios and bisharp who are both in B+ do almost the exact same thing but have better typing/speed. (Both of which I think deserve to rise but that's besides the point)
I find that, while yes, Kyurem poses a huge threat and has potential to break through virtually any team, that most of the time doesn't bust through teams. It's bad typing, low speed, and lack of extreme power keep it from being as effective against teams. Most of the time it either gets worn down to quick or has to forgo coverage causing it to be walled my common mons.
Kyurem just isn't independent or consistent enough to warrant a rise in my eyes.
Keep Kyurem B rank.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

4 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 182-216 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Megagross gives it trouble most of the time but it's still not the holy counter that everyone is making it out to be. Celesteela isn't a counter due to Fusion Bolt, and Heatran hates Earth Power. So Kyurem-Black has an easier time with them than either Latios or Bisharp. It also has an easier with Greninja. Maybe now wouldn't be the best time to raise it and wait until after Megagross gets banned but I think it's being underestimated.

 

[Sun King]

I think it's also WAY too early to be making rankings based on Metagross' status. Even if we knew it was 100% getting the boot, it's been a huge factor in the metagame, and that's going to shake things up. Arguing for/against KyuB because of Steels--especially Scizor--is a tricky argument since we have no idea what their usage will be/how viable they will be. There is sooooo much at play and we're going to need the meta to settle a bit once we have a verdict.

 

[HC]

Bit out of the blue here, but think Mimikyu should go to B+. I won't lie, I 100% thought it was gonna be a gimmick mon that'd be dropped after a few weeks but it's actually super impressive in practice.

It stands out compared to the other mons in B just for its consistency alone. The rise in bulky psychic types is great for it, being able to set up on mons like Slowbro/Reuniclus/Mew before firing off a Never Ending Nightmare. As a genuine HJK deterrent, and with ghost priority, it's an awesome mon to have when you face Mega Medicham.

On top of that, it's uses against BP thanks to its ability, as well as being a mainstay on certain trick room teams due to being guaranteed to get a TR off. Also has a place on Webs due to being a great emergency spinblocker if needed.

I'd even consider it for A- but the prevalence of Mega Scizor/Skarmory/Ferrothorn right now is a huge problem for it. But ultimately, it's ability to be an emergency button puts it at a B+ level.

P.S raise Volcarona its broken

 

[GMars]

I honestly agree kyub to B+ (once mmeta is gone, if it leaves) just do to the fact it has such raw power and can deal with so many threats in the meta including steel types. Yeah sure it's not super fast and is prone to steel type attacks, it can definitely crush an opponents team 1 mon at a time. It's also more flexible then most people think, too. Being able to run banded sets that RIP through stall with no effort (every mon gets 2hkoed) and duggy can't trap (eq is a 3hko, tectonic rage doesn't kill and then kyub 1 shots.) LO sets can run all sorts of coverage: hp fire to deal with ferro, zor. epower to deal with tran,etc. And it has it's new toy this gen: icium z, which 1 shots basically anything that isn't a resist and chunks basically all the other walls like skarm. In my opinion the best sets atm are LO, or band though. Especially band in my opinion, since it basically 2hkoes literally the whole meta outside of zor and ferro, literally.

I just wanted to reply to this to clarify that Focus Sash Dugtrio easily traps Kyurem-B with Reversal.

calc

252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 362-428 (92.5 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Randompizza]

I just wanted to reply to this to clarify that Focus Sash Dugtrio easily traps Kyurem-B with Reversal.

calc

252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 362-428 (92.5 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Yeah oops, forgot about reversal lol :p. But I still don't think that changes the fact that banded kyurem obliterates stall though. Just play it smart and keep it the back until duggy goes down basically. I mean more and more sets are running ground z anyway just to ohko mmaw and mmedi so that reversal calc is really only relevant if it's sash. But yeah thanks for catching my slip up anyway.

 

[Toshiro46]

Bit out of the blue here, but think Mimikyu should go to B+. I won't lie, I 100% thought it was gonna be a gimmick mon that'd be dropped after a few weeks but it's actually super impressive in practice.

It stands out compared to the other mons in B just for its consistency alone. The rise in bulky psychic types is great for it, being able to set up on mons like Slowbro/Reuniclus/Mew before firing off a Never Ending Nightmare. As a genuine HJK deterrent, and with ghost priority, it's an awesome mon to have when you face Mega Medicham.

On top of that, it had uses against BP thanks to its ability, as well as being a mainstay on certain trick room teams due to being guaranteed to get a TR off. Also has a place on Webs due to being a great emergency spinblocker if needed.

I'd even consider it for A- but the prevalence of Mega Scizor/Skarmory/Ferrothorn right now is a huge problem for it. But ultimately, it's ability to be an emergency button puts it at a B+ level.

P.S raise Volcarona its broken

Not necessarily opposed to a Mimikyu rise, but I want to point out some rather big flaws.

While Ghost/Fairy is a pretty great STAB hitting everything at least neutrally (nah you don't count, Pyroar, no one uses you), it doesn't have any room for coverage, with Shadow Sneak and SD taking up necessary spots. Which kinda sucks, because Wood Hammer actually hits harder than STAB Shadow Claw.

Bringing me to my next point - Shadow Claw is a ridiculously weak move. 70 BP isn't really good in any sense.

Finally, while it's usually guaranteed an SD boost, even after that it's still relatively weak compared to other SD mons or even some banded mons. 90 Atk is nothing to write home about.

Then there's the obvious problem of it being prey to any steel STAB running around (Scizor), though it has a fairly good defensive typing besides that. And it's pretty frail. Its SpD is its highest stat and still pretty underwhelming uninvested.

These are all pretty limiting and I'm not sure they're insignificant enough to warrant a rise to B+.

As to Volcarona: No, as ever.

Not sure what you mean by "broken", but if you're just talking about pure power, CharY's Fire Blast and Solar Beam hit harder right out of the gate than +1 Volc's Fire Blast and Giga Drain.

But CharY is A-, because it requires quite a lot of support. Volcarona requires most if not all of the same support and needs a turn to set up. Why is Volcarona in A, then? It can set up past +1, it has better coverage options, it's not a mega, it's easier to fit onto a team, etc.

Doesn't change the fact that it has a 4x weakness to rocks, is worn down easily without roost (in which case it loses valuable coverage), and is revenge killed by every scarfer worth their salt in the tier.

Edit Randompizza: afaik dugtrio is almost always sash on stall. Groundium z has gained popularity outside of stall due to unreliable hazard control and revenge killing the threats you mentioned. But Stall doesn't suffer from unreliable hazard control.

 

[HC]

Not necessarily opposed to a Mimikyu rise, but I want to point out some rather big flaws.

While Ghost/Fairy is a pretty great STAB hitting everything at least neutrally (nah you don't count, Pyroar, no one uses you), it doesn't have any room for coverage, with Shadow Sneak and SD taking up necessary spots. Which kinda sucks, because Wood Hammer actually hits harder than STAB Shadow Claw.

Bringing me to my next point - Shadow Claw is a ridiculously weak move. 70 BP isn't really good in any sense.

Finally, while it's usually guaranteed an SD boost, even after that it's still relatively weak compared to other SD mons or even some banded mons. 90 Atk is nothing to write home about.

Then there's the obvious problem of it being prey to any steel STAB running around (Scizor), though it has a fairly good defensive typing besides that. And it's pretty frail. Its SpD is its highest stat and still pretty underwhelming uninvested.

These are all pretty limiting and I'm not sure they're insignificant enough to warrant a rise to B+.

As to Volcarona: No, as ever.

Not sure what you mean by "broken", but if you're just talking about pure power, CharY's Fire Blast and Solar Beam hit harder right out of the gate than +1 Volc's Fire Blast and Giga Drain.

But CharY is A-, because it requires quite a lot of support. Volcarona requires most if not all of the same support and needs a turn to set up. Why is Volcarona in A, then? It can set up past +1, it has better coverage options, it's not a mega, it's easier to fit onto a team, etc.

Doesn't change the fact that it has a 4x weakness to rocks, is worn down easily without roost (in which case it loses valuable coverage), and is revenge killed by every scarfer worth their salt in the tier.

Edit Randompizza: afaik dugtrio is almost always sash on stall. Groundium z has gained popularity outside of stall due to unreliable hazard control and revenge killing the threats you mentioned. But Stall doesn't suffer from unreliable hazard control.

Have you ever played with/against Volc? Hitting hard off the bat doesn't mean it's a better mon. Zard Y is a wallbreaker while Volc is a mid-late game sweeper, it doesn't need that extra power.

It's difficult to revenge kill and has so many options that it is basically guaranteed a kill. Teams are forced to run scarfed mons with Stone Edge (Garchomp/Keldeo for example) or risk losing to this mon entirely.

I was joking when I said it was broken but I think it's probably the best set up sweeper in the tier

 

[matthewc20090]

thots:

I don't think Mimikyu should rise because even though it is a nice emergency button against stuff like volcarona ash gren dd lando etc, its usually dead weight in early game when the opposing sciz/ ferro/ whatever is still healthy. Being spike fodder against ferro is also pretty bad for it cause we all know how stupid spikes are. in some cases it doesn't hit hard enough to secure KOs, even at +2. idt it should drop, just don't think its good enough for a rise

wait this thing isn't a+ yet? quite honestly one of the most broken mons in the game rn. to the user 2 posts above me, hc did a nice job explaining, but i'll elaborate. volcarona has access to items, allowing it to beat toxapex with psychium z, scarf keldeo/chomp with charti, and everything else with a hidden power or inferno overdrive. whatever it can't cover (heatran) can be dealt with by teammates (dugtrio).

oh but its hazard weak

yeah no shit sherlock. although i admit hazard control isn't great rn, its not impossible to fit starm/mew/fini on a team, and greatly worth it for volc. also if ur good rocks don't stay up.

 

[lydian]

whatever it can't cover (heatran) can be dealt with by teammates (dugtrio).

I'm sorry but that applies to literally every single mon, mentioning teammates as a pro to a Pokemon is really dumb. That being said tho, I do agree with Volcarona getting raised to A+ because, aside from the reasons others stated, it has many opportunities to set up against most teams and its high base speed means that teams without a 100+ Scarfer have a big chance of getting swept by Volcarona...

 

[Sun King]

Y'all are overhyping Volc. It's amazing when given an opportunity, but that's way easier said than done. I know it gets talked to death, but the RELIANCE on hazard removal is a huge strike against it. It gets really easy to pressure a team with Volcarona because one turn of hazard removal = one free turn to get your nastiest mon in and apply a ton of pressure. Additionally, if hazard removal goes down, all you need to do is outspeed base 100, which is not hard to do, nor is it hard to do at least 50% to Volc.

A is gracious plenty for Volcarona.

 

[Toshiro46]

Have you ever played with/against Volc? Hitting hard off the bat doesn't mean it's a better mon. Zard Y is a wallbreaker while Volc is a mid-late game sweeper, it doesn't need that extra power.

It's difficult to revenge kill and has so many options that it is basically guaranteed a kill. Teams are forced to run scarfed mons with Stone Edge (Garchomp/Keldeo for example) or risk losing to this mon entirely.

I was joking when I said it was broken but I think it's probably the best set up sweeper in the tier

Yes. All the time. Quite a few people use it, after all. I understand its sweeping potential completely, and I tend to agree that it might be the best sweeper in the tier... though a few of the A+/S mons' sweeper sets give it a run for its money. Personally, though, I rarely have an issue with it. Fortunately for Volc, my personal experiences have little to do with its viability.

I wasn't comparing them. I'm certainly not saying that CharY is the more viable mon. Just pointing out that they're two sides of the same coin - a wallbreaker and a sweeper with very similar stats and typings. In my personal opinion, their viability should reflect this (CharY should always be a subrank below Volc), as most meta trends will affect them pretty similarly.

Volcarona is scary, but it's limited by its drawbacks. The first of them is hazards. I may sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but a 4x rocks weakness in this meta is absolutely disgusting and cannot be ignored or brushed aside. Note that half the mons in A+/S resist rocks and the other half are neutral towards it. There are no rocks weaknesses among those ranks for a reason.

Next is that it's revenge killed by all 4 of the best rkiller scarfers in the tier (and also A-Gren if it's taken a bit of chip).

Charti

Sure, I guess it can run Charti Berry if you want to hinder yourself that much just to get 2HKOed instead of OHKOed by mons that still outspeed you anyway and will probably live at least one of your non-z-move attacks because you don't have a z move because you hate winning because ScarfChomp, ScarfKeldeo, ScarfNihilego, and ScarfTerrak still beat you most of the time because they're most of the time not OHKOed, unless you have rocks (still no in Chomp and Terrak's case because Chomp isn't even 2HKOed most of the time and Terrak OHKOs even with Charti). Unfortunately for you, you defogged them away. And elsewise assuming that rocks are up on the scarfers side but not Volcs is a slippery slope. Basically Charti is a niche option at best and using it as reasoning for raising Volcarona or Volc beating these rkillers is pretty ridiculous (there's a reason it's not mentioned on Volc's analysis).

The aforementioned scarfers - i.e. the most viable scarfers in the tier since Scarf-Gengar isn't useful for much without Phero in the tier - all revenge kill Volc consistently. Garchomp and Nihilego can even switch into a predicted QD without fear, because even if they guess wrong, Garchomp isn't 2HKOed by any +0 move and Nihilego only has to fear HP Ground and Shattered Psyche at +0 (neither of which OHKO, still). Similarly, Keldeo and Terrak aren't OHKOed by anything bar Shattered Psyche at 0, but get 2HKOed by Giga and psychic.

Basically, no, it's not difficult to revenge kill, unless you're completely unprepared for it.

Having a 101+ scarfer on your team for Volc isn't centralization because you should probably have one anyway

These scarfers exist as very viable revenge killers for basically every archetype besides stall, which has chansey so it's not like it suffers from volcarona. Imo, they should be on most teams. Speed boosting threats like Cele, Magearna, Gyarados, Zygarde, etc and just fast stuff in general like Koko and A-Gren are extremely viable and should be prepared for. Volc is numbered among these as a relevant threat, and thus prepared for with them.

replies to matthewc20090's and vertex's posts

matthewc20090 So you're saying that Volcarona needs both Fini/other hazard removal and Dugtrio to operate completely effectively? And you want it to go to A+?

Vertex +1 252 SpA Volcarona Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 139-164 (43 - 50.7%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO. I'd really like to know your definition of "break".

In short, Volc is a damn good mon. But it's not A+ material. I put it this way a couple pages back: "it needs support - lots of it. It needs a hazard remover, it needs a teammate to get rid of the scarfer on the other team, etc... It's similar to CharY in a sense that there's CharY teams, not teams that include CharY. CharY is more extreme because it takes up the mega slot and usually is accompanied by dug [in addition to a hazard remover, which volc also requires], but I think they're still comparable [especially since Dug is almost required for Volc depending on set due to its ability to trap and kill Scarf Terrak/Nihi and Heatran]. While you *could* build a team around any of the A+ mons, they're all splashable enough that they can fit on teams not built around them."

The most apt comparison between an A+ mon and Volc is with A-Gren. Both have one main set that they excel with. But Ash-Gren is splashable as fuck/easy to fit on teams and requires little support, while Volcarona decidedly does not have those traits. To borrow another quote from my post: "I really think that's the difference between an A mon and an A+ mon. Ash Gren and Volcarona are both extremely good at what they do, but one requires a large amount of support, while the other doesn't."

I spent way too much time writing this

 

[GMars]

Suggesting a drop for Porygon-Z to B-. Tyranitar seems to be rising in popularity, and this definitely hurts P-Z's viability. The meta in general doesn't seem as vulnerable to Ghost-type spam as it was when it was first ranked (not totally sure on this, but I did hear that March and April usage stats are finally being compiled now that showdown's switched to the new server - shoutouts Antar). In addition, every relevant scarfer is 100+ base speed since Volcarona got big, meaning Porygon-Z is open to being revenge killed without being able to do any serious damage. Relying on neutral coverage and only having 1 shot at a sweep means it's forced to be saved for the late-game, so good opponents easily keep their defensive checks healthy enough to take it on. It just seems outclassed as a late-game sweeper and a z-move user, and doesn't fit in with other B rank Pokemon like Thundurus and Weavile.

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

Can't say I agree with the dropping of P-Z to B- there, but there's something that I've noticed about what you've put:

Suggesting a drop for Porygon-Z to B-. Tyranitar seems to be rising in popularity, and this definitely hurts P-Z's viability. The meta in general doesn't seem as vulnerable to Ghost-type spam as it was when it was first ranked (not totally sure on this, but I did hear that March and April usage stats are finally being compiled now that showdown's switched to the new server - shoutouts Antar). In addition, every relevant scarfer is 100+ base speed since Volcarona got big, meaning Porygon-Z is open to being revenge killed without being able to do any serious damage.

By this same train of thought (and as you said, the rise of TTar), would Gengar (another named Scarfer) not be vulnerable to dropping off? I say this as:

• Porygon-Z can convert into Electric and even possibly Ice type if it wanted to (or something else, dependent upon coverage).
• Gengar risks getting Pursuit trapped.
• With this, P-Z isn't locked into things, unlike Gengar.

I just think considering Gengar brings to light a clash in logic here, and I'd say keep P-Z in B until said conflict in logic has been resolved.

 

[Toshiro46]

Can't say I agree with the dropping of P-Z to B- there, but there's something that I've noticed about what you've put:


By this same train of thought (and as you said, the rise of TTar), would Gengar (another named Scarfer) not be vulnerable to dropping off? I say this as:

• Porygon-Z can convert into Electric and even possibly Ice type if it wanted to (or something else, dependent upon coverage).
• Gengar risks getting Pursuit trapped.
• With this, P-Z isn't locked into things, unlike Gengar.

I just think considering Gengar brings to light a clash in logic here, and I'd say keep P-Z in B until said conflict in logic has been resolved.

Gengar has focus blast, which OHKOs every variant of TTar bar AV. He has a way to deal with TTar. PZ doesn't run a fighting type move, it's boltbeam + shadow ball usually.

I don't have an opinion on PZ, but arguing that Gengar should drop if PZ does due to rising Ttar usage doesn't work imo.

 

[cityscapes]

also i wanted to point out that gengar and porygon-z have different roles. pz is a sweeper that utilizes z conversion which is why it's so threatened by ttar's increased usage-- it only gets one chance to set up per game, so ttar can just deny it a sweep by switching in. meanwhile gengar is a breaker that capitalizes on forced switches; the rise of ttar hurts it but at least it can win with focus miss.

here's a nom: smeargle to b

webs teams are pretty big right now and smeargle is pretty much the web setter. it can support teammates with moves such as memento and magic coat, making it a staple on web teams. i think smeargle deserves to be ranked higher to reflect this.

 

[lydian]

also i wanted to point out that gengar and porygon-z have different roles. pz is a sweeper that utilizes z conversion which is why it's so threatened by ttar's increased usage-- it only gets one chance to set up per game, so ttar can just deny it a sweep by switching in. meanwhile gengar is a breaker that capitalizes on forced switches; the rise of ttar hurts it but at least it can win with focus miss.

here's a nom: smeargle to b

webs teams are pretty big right now and smeargle is pretty much the web setter. it can support teammates with moves such as memento and magic coat, making it a staple on web teams. i think smeargle deserves to be ranked higher to reflect this.

I really think B- is fine for Smeargle. Obviously, it is essencial Sticky Web teams, but that's pretty much it's only relevant niche. It has zero bulk, no offensive presence and a very underwhelming speed, specially for a Lead. Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko can prevent Spore, one of Smeargle's biggest pros, and the relevance of Defog and Taunt in the metagame really hinder Smeargle's only viable set.

 

[legend slayer]

I personally think Tyranitar should be raised to A rank for several reasons. A. His versatile movepool and amazing stats let him fill different roles on different teams. B.he can be lethal to teams as either a physical or special attacker and c. His dual STABs give him almost complete neutral coverage to the entire metagame.His arguably best sets are his Dragon dance sets, which generally have crunch/ pursuit, Dragon dance, earthquake and stone edge. One of the best versions of this is offensive rockium z, which OHKOs many of his checks on the switch and even some mons who resist it. Observe: +1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 292-345 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 187-222 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 313-370 (96.9 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
And some jolly calcs: 252 Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 150-177 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 130-154 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage +1 252 Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 195-231 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO +1 252 Atk Tyranitar Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (78.9 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO even without a boost this thing is threatening, as he can 2HKO most of anything in the metagame at +1.Rockium Z at least deserves a mention on his analysis for how muck raw power it is and the sets sweeping potential because of his amazing bulk and sandstorm chip damage, i think he is and will remain a terror in OU due to these traits even with the steel and fairy types running around (except mega-metagross unless he is +1 and metagross has taken some damage from stealth rocks crunch will not kill). stealth rocks can also help him a lot allowing him to OHKO tapu bulu with a +1 continental crush after them.

 

[The Loog Noog]

To raise rank

When scrolling through these viability rankings, I noticed that Mew was rated a measly B+ in the viability rankings and thought that this was much too low. Mew should be at the A rank, but I'd be fine with it moving up to A- if 2 ranks is too drastic a jump. Just to clarify, I hate the "stallbreaker" Mew set because of how Sableye is omnipresent on stall at this point, so I will mainly be referring to the Defog set when talking about Mew.

Mew is a really solid mon, due to its ability to check some of the most threatening physical attackers in the tier like Medicham, Metagross, Mawile, etc. With its access to Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers in conjunction with recovery options that allow it to maintain its HP throughout the match, Mew can end up being a really effective physical tank.

Aside from just being a great check to physical attackers, Mew pairs really well with Pokemon that need hazard removal support such as Volcarona, which is the most threatening set up sweeper in the tier due to its insane versatility when it comes to movesets. Additionally, Mew has the advantage of being able to safely Defog vs most of the most common hazard setters in the game today, which is super valuable in a Defogger, as you don't have to wait for the setter to switch out to Defog. Moving on, Mew has individual features aside from its general defensive utility and moveset versatility that specifically sets it apart from other Defoggers.

When comparing Mew to other Defoggers that are ranked above it, it has quite a few notable strength over others. One thing that Mew has over all three of these mons right off the bat is that it doesn't really have an issue with defogging when Bisharp is around because you can just outspeed and wisp standard Bisharp so that it doesn't become a problem at +2, which is noteworthy due to how common Sticky Web is. When comparing Mew to Scizor specifically, which is ranked at A rank as a defogger, Mew can Defog vs Lando-T more consistently because it can burn it as it attempts to set up, and it can outspeed more defensive variants, not to mention that it can achieve Mega Scizor's coveted role of being a Mega Metagross check without taking up a Mega Slot. Mew can actually somewhat play around with Protean Greninja and Defog on it as long as you don't get below ~60% on a free switch (Spikes sets don't run dpulse) while Zapdos gets obliterated by Ice Beam regardless. Also, Zapdos isa Defogger that's weak to SR, leading it to be pressured to come in and take 25% when you need to clear out hazards, essentially reducing its effective bulk to 75% of what it actually is. Lastly, Tapu Fini lacks realiable recovery, leading it to being worn down throughout the match and not being able to Defog late game when you need to for a Pokemon like Volcarona that needs it right before it sets up to sweep, and Tapu Fini struggles when it comes to Defogging vs Maw because it doesn't have any Status moves to cripple Maw such Mew's Will-O-Wisp or anything to threaten to do too much offensively. While each of these individual Defoggers have their advantages over Mew, the specific differences that I mentioned regarding Mew make it stand out enough to mandate an A- rank at minimum for it.

Mew does have 3 obligatory slots in Roost, Will-O-Wisp, and Defog, but it has a ton of room for flexibility in that last moveslot. You can run Earth Power to lure Heatran for HP Ground-less Volc, Ice Beam to offer an easy way to remove the most common rocker in the tier, Volt Switch/U-turn to ensure that Mew isn't losing momentum, Knock Off to cripple mons like Chansey that rely on their items and enabling you to weaken attackers that rely on their item to get to their preferred threshold of power, such as Life Orb Greninja or Choice Specs Tapu Lele and quite a few more miscellaneous options.

While the physical set is quite a bit better in the current Metagame, you can also run a Specially Defensive set to take on any Tapu Lele barring Specs Moonblast as well as being the only Defogger in the tier capable of Defogging on Spikes Greninja (Protean). This is more of a supporting point showing how versatile Mew can be in terms of what it runs as opposed to a primary focus of my argument.

Obviously Mew has an absolutely horrid matchup vs stall teams die to its passivity, but the aforementioned positive features make Mew good enough that it deserves to reside in the A ranks of Defoggers.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

As a defogger I don't think Mew is notably better than the defoggers ranked higher, really other than spreading burns on key threats(we know Mew is going to wisp).

It does a good job for role compression but really it can run one lure without being outclassed unless You're running nasty plot which isn't really worth rising

 

[Toshiro46]

such as Volcarona, which is the most threatening set up sweeper in the tier due to its insane versatility when it comes to movesets

What. Volcarona runs one set with something like 2 items, both z stones (Charti isn't a thing ok), and only around 8 moves. In fact, three of its moves are all but guaranteed - Fire Blast (or Fiery Dance whichever), Giga Drain, and Quiver Dance. That's not versatile and that's not the reason Volc is a contender for the best sweeper in the tier.

Looking at the rest of your post...

Standard Bisharp (Jolly or Adamant, makes no difference) beats Mew with no speed investment. If you invest into speed to outspeed jolly bisharp, you're cutting your defensive investment in half. Doesn't seem worth it to me. So Bisharp comes in on your defog and gets +2 then outspeeds and KOs with knock off.

Mew's an effective check to the three Mega Ms, sure, but you can't consistently switch in to them without healing off the damage, and by the time you've healed off the damage, they'll have sent in an answer to you and you'll be forced out. At what point during this do you defog, or do anything really of note?

Mew doesn't really beat offensive lando, because offensive lando 2HKOs with EQ into SSSS. Continental crush isn't as powerful but still puts you in a dangerous spot. If you've taken any prior damage (say, from the hazards you want gone), you'll probably be 2HKOed.

You're comparing Mew to Zapdos when Zapdos is rated so highly for its roost +3 set, not its defog set. Its viability doesn't reflect how good it is at defogging.

Same goes for Scizor, which is rated for all the utility it brings (Priority, Pursuit, physical wall/best check to Megagross in the tier, etc) rather than just its roost set.

Fini does have ease defogging on mawile, because she outspeeds and resists sucker punch. She may not live to tell the tale but she'll get the job done.

B+ is plenty fine for Mew. It has a niche and performs it well enough, but doesn't do much beyond that.

 

[YuguY]

Someone explain why fini is a-

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Someone explain why fini is a-

One of the few viable Defoggers in the tier, Taunt + Nature's Madness lets it threaten stall, Misty Terrain support is incredibly helpful for grounded Pokémon that fear status, great bulk and defensive typing gives it 6 resistances and an immunity, it can also run a Taunt + Calm Mind set which can be deadly late game.

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

On another note: considering Heraconite/Houndoomite just got released, and Heracross is on the blacklist (for reasons I don't really understand, but that's a chat for another day) - does said blacklisting apply to Mega Heracross?

I'm not going to make a nom' or anything (because we're not supposed to), but I was just wondering if we could have that cleared up? K thanks.