Agreed... I mean all of the stallbreakers have made stall teams go away, unless they are somewhat offensive. Completely Passive sets like Chansey (Seismic toss 4HKOs, so no) don't really stand a chance against Heatran, Lele and Fini and Expecially Megacham High Jump Kick. (Not really stall breaking, but OHKOing everything stall, including chansey and blissey) 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 1028-1212 (160.1 - 188.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread v3
- Thread starter Gary
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Yeah once Mega-Sab is gone, Mega-Medi eviscerates most stall cores because it can just HJK for days. Haven't been laddering much lately, is Lele primarily being used for stallbreaking these days?
There's the Ciele stall team that is Skarmory / Clefable / Zapdos / Alomomola / Dugtrio / Chansey. Replay of this team here in tiebreakers for SPL Finals. There's the NJNP stall team, Dugtrio / Sableye / Tangrowth / Skarmory / Toxapex / Volcarona. And if you ask p2, he'll advocate for Kartana stall (Kartana / Heatran / Chansey / Sableye / Zapdos / Alomomola).
Basically there's a number of good variations of stall out there, you just need to be a little creative to come up with something that works.
its actually njnp stall not ben gay stall
Subject 18 Edit: I'm aware of this now...
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Wait, Kartana? As in the SD Fight-Z set or something else?
IIRC the set he's been using is this
Kartana @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Vacuum Wave
Yes, that is Vacuum Wave. He uses it for Duggy iirc.
It's Liek the best offensive defogger, maybe? Idk I've debated using it but no taunt/choice scarf looked bad(it could beat greninja, Chansey, ferrothorn, exadrill,heatran) but idk
Mega meta has always been feel as hell on my shed teams but I can see the cores it's part of with the tapus and greninja/lando being a never ending hell of pumped up bulky offense. It might be good to drop for now but once some megas come it might help bring balance
Idk I really just hope the meta stays pretty open ended, it's cool to see rise and falls in TR, sticky web, rain and stall
Mega meta has always been feel as hell on my shed teams but I can see the cores it's part of with the tapus and greninja/lando being a never ending hell of pumped up bulky offense. It might be good to drop for now but once some megas come it might help bring balance
Idk I really just hope the meta stays pretty open ended, it's cool to see rise and falls in TR, sticky web, rain and stall
Shed Stall isn't good rn imo. Getting hazards vs Stall is way easier this gen than last gen, with stuff like Spikes Gren SD Lando Rocks Tran SD Marowak or even rocks Mawile (lol). Most offensive teams usually carry at least one of these making it almost impossible to prevent Shed from dying.
Shed was good at the start of the gen before the duggy test but it's a working archetype(aka bad)
But aren't the other 2 powerhouse megas mawile/cham a lot like mega meta in terms of coverage but they hit harder at cost of speed/bulk?
100 vs 110 speed is an important jump tho
But aren't the other 2 powerhouse megas mawile/cham a lot like mega meta in terms of coverage but they hit harder at cost of speed/bulk?
100 vs 110 speed is an important jump tho
The issue with Shedinja stall is that it hinges itself upon a Pokemon that is vulnerable to so much and then the preservation of it, which arguably distracts the team from normal progression in the game. Additionally, this gives the opponent ample opportunity to break through as there's one less defensively synergetic member/the aforementioned stress on Shedninja, almost defeating the purpose of using this stall over normal stall simply due to the degree it finds its effectiveness compromised.
I personally would only use the standard stall with Toxapex, Chansey, Skarmory, Mega-Sableye, Clefable, and Dugtrio or some variant of the double defog stall with Alomomola, Chansey, Skarmory, Dugtrio, Zapdos, and Clefable that is a bit more accustom to the release of Mega-Medicham. However, it is entirely possible that you can create or find other consistently effective variants of stall if you try hard enough!
I personally would only use the standard stall with Toxapex, Chansey, Skarmory, Mega-Sableye, Clefable, and Dugtrio or some variant of the double defog stall with Alomomola, Chansey, Skarmory, Dugtrio, Zapdos, and Clefable that is a bit more accustom to the release of Mega-Medicham. However, it is entirely possible that you can create or find other consistently effective variants of stall if you try hard enough!
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Banded set is very hard to switch into, and it provides valuable support for teams for its Pursuit trapping abilities, which isn't seen too much at the moment outside of itself and Alolan Muk. It's able to heavily pressure defensive cores as well as punish Specs Gengar and Lele from freely spamming their Ghost and Psychic STABs respectively. It's also a solid check to most Volcarona sets running around, as well as Zapdos and bulky Psychic-types such as Reuniclus and Mew to an extent (has to be wary of Wisp) which have all been on the rise recently because of Medicham.
Mega Metagross is officially rip. Now what?
Personally I've been fairly successful with Lele/Mega Zam offense since there's one less bulky (and omnipresent) bulky resist in the tier.
SPL and Pink mons' stall have been running around a lot, as have baton pass variants, sticky web offense, and trick room. So we're in for a lot of "fun, skillful" games on the ladder.
Personally I've been fairly successful with Lele/Mega Zam offense since there's one less bulky (and omnipresent) bulky resist in the tier.
SPL and Pink mons' stall have been running around a lot, as have baton pass variants, sticky web offense, and trick room. So we're in for a lot of "fun, skillful" games on the ladder.
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What do you guys think of Lele's future without MegaGross in her way?
Definitely goes up in usage/viability. BandTar and Alolan Muk will likely see increased usage to exploit Choiced Lele as a result too.
What do you think of Greninja's future now that Metagross Mega is gone? (I'm specifically talking about Protean Greninja). Specifically, does it get better or worse, and if it does get better, is it overcentralizing? Ash-Greninja got worse because that's one less threat it can revenge kill.
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I think there are more answers to this, am I wrong? Celesteela, Heatran, Jirachi, Ferrothorn, for a Mega Scizor extension, Mega Mawile ... Any chance that it will become a definitive (and restrictive) key in the metagame (more than it already was)?
What do you guys think about Mega Beedrill right now? Pheromosa was a mon that outclassed her but was banned some time agor, Mega Metagross being banned both removed a Mon that was a bad matchuopfor him and a competition for the mega slot, the rise of Tangrowth and Mew recently helped her a lot, but there's still Lando and Celesteela on the tier, and Volcarona being better every day hurts her. While I don't think it will be OU, she might get at least a little more use after all the time from when he was released.
Specs Lele still hurts a lot. Heatran gets obliterated by Focus Blast, and Fully SpDef Celesteela and Jirachi take 38% minimum from HP Fire (3HKO in both cases). Mega Mawile and Ferrothorn take huge damage or drop dead from HP Fire too.
So where is the reliable answers? Just Ttar and Muk-A?
Genuinely interested what's gonna be of the Tapus now that their N°1 check and abuser is gone. M-Scizor & Mawile are still jeopardized by Lele, Excadrill has issues getting past Lando-T (which does not seems to be giving up his "50% usage award" anytime soon), Celesteela & Magearna need to be defensive/AV to threathen them and...A-Muk is still a thing I guess?
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