DP Tier Discussion Thread - BL and UU

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Add Protect in there, and you can stall out Swellow easily. I protect stalled it, with SR up and it died in just a few turns.


Oh, and about this tounament... I would play with you guys, but I'm leaving town this weekend.
 
How about all those interested in this mini-tournament picking / or being randomly assigned one of the debatables, which they then have to include in their team, but nobody else can use.

That way we are guaranteed greater diversity in the testing ...
 
Which pokes are actually going to get "tested"... What I mean is, which of the ones discussed so far are still kinda shaky and haven't been 100% decided yet? Claydol, Leafeon, Swellow, and Steelix?
 
Shiny Oddish said:
How about all those interested in this mini-tournament picking / or being randomly assigned one of the debatables, which they then have to include in their team, but nobody else can use.

That way we are guaranteed greater diversity in the testing ...
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That would create an environment that wouldn't be like the real play. First, if people know that person X has Pokemon Y, they'll obviously counter that, so you can't tell how strong it is. It may be that certain Pokemon are strong working together.

If people really think that some Pokemon are too strong, you can bet they'll use them, because they want to win. That's enough of an incentive.
 
Shiny Oddish said:
How about all those interested in this mini-tournament picking / or being randomly assigned one of the debatables, which they then have to include in their team, but nobody else can use.

That way we are guaranteed greater diversity in the testing ...
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...Somehow I think you've missed the point of a tournament. I'll sum it up.

Win at any cost.

EDIT: Anything else as Obi said follows after that without saying.
 
If people really think that some Pokemon are too strong, you can bet they'll use them, because they want to win. That's enough of an incentive.
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But if everyone's using the debatables how are we going to test how they measure with the regular UU's?
 
Shiny Oddish said:
But if everyone's using the debatables how are we going to test how they measure with the regular UU's?
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Somesone could make a normal UU team, then have one of the debatables randomized into their team by a mod or someone who isn't participating. These randomized Pokémon will be known only by the person using them until the battle. Oo

Least, that's how I'd go about doing it.
 
Shiny Oddish said:
But if everyone's using the debatables how are we going to test how they measure with the regular UU's?
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For all we know, the debatables are regular UUs. All we gotta do is ban those that over centralize the metagame later on. The debatables have already been decided to be "tested", thus, we test them all at once.
 
Tailwind said:
Somesone could make a normal UU team, then have one of the debatables randomized into their team by a mod or someone who isn't participating. These randomized Pokémon will be known only by the person using them until the battle. Oo

Least, that's how I'd go about doing it.
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That would probably be the best way, but in order for that to occur we'd need 8 debatables. Not to mention a tournament would only tell so much, when you consider everyone's individual ability and team making skill.

And I would like to take part in this tournament too. :happybrain:
 
It was already agreed for them to be BL. That is time for another "update" of the debate thusfar (nothing really happened since the last update, but it is important to keep track of these things)

Current Discussion
Empoleon
Leafeon

BL waiting list. The ones to be removed.
-Feraligatr
-Typhlosion
-Crobat
-Azumarill
-Ursaring
-Slowking
-Mamoswine
-Ambipom
-Jumpluff

UU's to be tested.
 -Walrein
-Glaceon
-Pinsir
-Cacturne
-Lapras
-Ninetales
-Poliwrath
-Hitmonlee

BL's with recommendations for movedown to UU or to be Tested.
Note: Weak recommendations are placed for historical purposes, so that we don't repeat say, the Miltank or Houndoom debate.
-Claydol (Very Strong)
-Cloyster (Very Strong)
-Torterra (High)
-Steelix (High)
-Drapion (High)
-Shedinja (Medium - high)
-Regigigas (Weak)
-Houndoom (Very Weak)
-Miltank (Very Weak)
-Flygon (Very Weak)

Widely Acceptable NFE's. (Debatable ones are in the other thread)
-Scyther
-Magmar
-Electabuzz
-Trapinch
-Poliwhirl
-Clamperl
-Vigoroth
-Pikachu

Non-obvious Banned NFEs (AKA, BL)
Snover
Hippopatas

---------------------

For the tournament, I'd assume it is fine to test all of the testing pokemon at once in the tournament.

All OU pokemon would be banned, and the following pokemon would also be banned:

BL Pokemon: (For the tournament)
Abomasnow
Alakazam
Ambipom
Ambipom
Arcanine
Articuno
Azumarill
Blaziken
Charizard
Crobat
Empoleon
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Feraligatr
Floatzel
Flygon
Gallade
Gardevoir
Hariyama
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Jolteon
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kingdra
Leafeon
Lickilicky
Ludicolo
Magmortar
Mamoswine
Marowak
Medicham
Mesprit
Milotic
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Ninjask
Porygon2
Raikou
Ramparados
Regice
Regigigas
Regirock
Registeel
Roserade
Sceptile
Scizor
Shaymin
Slaking
Slowking
Smeargle
Snorlax
Spiritomb
Staraptor
Tauros
Typhlosion
Umbreon
Ursaring
Uxie
Venusaur
Zangoose

--------

The following pokemon are the potentially controversial ones.

(Current UUs) -Walrein
-Glaceon
-Pinsir
-Cacturne
-Lapras
-Ninetales
-Poliwrath
-Hitmonlee

(Moving from BL to UU)
-Claydol
-Cloyster
-Torterra
-Steelix
-Drapion
-Shedinja
 
Hey, wasn't Articuno debated quite a bit before on one of the pages because of things like terrible typing/offensive movepool, etc? I don't completely remember, but did we ever reach a conclusion on Articuno?
 
What are your thoughts of Tentacruel? He's very strong defensively in UU, what with his base 120 S.DEF coupled with 80 base HP. He can Haze, spin, and set up spikes all while shrugging off Special hits. His DEF isn't the greatest, but I still think that he's worth a mention for BL.
 
No, he isn't strong defensively for UU. Grumpig, Hypno, and Probopass all hit the UU mark and are as defensive or even more defensive than Tentacruel.

The only issue with Tentacruel I have is that it is on the threshold to be potentially OU as it is starting to get popular. Ditto with Froslass. But I wouldn't say they are too powerful for UU.
 
Sorry that I didn't read much from the topic, but I need to say that putting Snorlax in BL when you're discussing BL and UU annoys the crap out of me.
Really, because many people think that because Snorlax is BL, it isn't going to fucking rape UU. My Primeape couldn't KO a Curse-Lax. That is fucking sad.

BL itself shouldn't be made this early. We should start by UU and OU and then, IF NEEDED, make BL. Since everybody LOVES BL because it doesn't have Blissey and shit. Like fucking Snorlax is less cheap.
Also, if Steelix is UU then Aggron will be NU?

PS- I don't fucking know when to use "than" or "then". Sorry about that.
 
Really, because many people think that because Snorlax is BL, it isn't going to fucking rape UU. My Primeape couldn't KO a Curse-Lax. That is fucking sad.
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As it's been stated many times, the difference between BL and OU is based on usage, while the difference between BL and UU is based on power. If something is in BL, then it is by definition too powerful for UU.

BL itself shouldn't be made this early. We should start by UU and OU and then, IF NEEDED, make BL. Since everybody LOVES BL because it doesn't have Blissey and shit. Like fucking Snorlax is less cheap.
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BL isn't a balanced tier in itself, so BL play isn't supposed to be balanced. It's simply there to separate the most used pokemon (OU) from the pokemon of nearly the same power level that are less used (BL).

Also, if Steelix is UU then Aggron will be NU?
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Steelix being in UU wouldn't affect Aggron's power level in NU, so no.
 
Still, we shouldn't be discussing BL so soon.
And I didn't really get the Aggron thing.
If it is UU, it is totally outclassed by Steelix, and if it is NU it will rape it.
 
Still, we shouldn't be discussing BL so soon.
And I didn't really get the Aggron thing.
If it is UU, it is totally outclassed by Steelix, and if it is NU it will rape it.
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BL is the Ubers tier for UU. When you ban a pokemon from UU, it by definition goes into BL.
 
Portugeez said:
Sorry that I didn't read much from the topic, but I need to say that putting Snorlax in BL when you're discussing BL and UU annoys the crap out of me.
Really, because many people think that because Snorlax is BL, it isn't going to fucking rape UU. My Primeape couldn't KO a Curse-Lax. That is fucking sad.

BL itself shouldn't be made this early. We should start by UU and OU and then, IF NEEDED, make BL. Since everybody LOVES BL because it doesn't have Blissey and shit. Like fucking Snorlax is less cheap.
Also, if Steelix is UU then Aggron will be NU?

PS- I don't fucking know when to use "than" or "then". Sorry about that.
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I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say-- but I'd like to say that if you don't speak English as your native tongue, maybe you should avoid swearing. Not everything has to be "fucking."

Aggron and Steelix can both coincide in UU-- there's nothing wrong with that. Also Aggron has an easier time doing this thing called "attacking." It's kind of important.
 
could a tier of pokes be made

basically ones that state a list of pokes that are able to be played in UU but are good enough for OU standards

pokes like tentacruel, walrein, glaceon, crobat, absol, etc.

i mean, it's just a suggestion that'll most likely be rejected, but i mean

or maybe like a UU tier seperation like for OU, pokes that are UU but too strong for NU
 
You could make a list of that without it being a tier. I mean, all it represents is the power of UU Pokemon in a metagame they aren't measured in by power, so it goes beyond the need of our tier list.

Nearly every UU Pokemon is usable in OU in some way or another though.
 
Hell, some guys are using Butterfree effectively in battle. Focus Sash, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore the Switch, Sunny Day to your doom, Bellyzard. I'd say just about every pokemon can be useful.

OU pokemon are listed there for your defensive. Who you should be ready to recieve attacks from. In terms of team-building, you should simply use any pokemon that works best for the slot you designated, and if you always follow the arbitrary lists that are generated, you will always be behind the trends, instead of making them.
 
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