-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
A lot of moves really should be more restricted than they are (Earthquake, Toxic, and Stealth Rock are big offenders here), but there's no practical way to fix it unless a future game re-did everything's movepools and wouldn't let you transfer Pokemon with moves they no longer have access to.
Honestly I wouldn't mind that. Maybe some kind of erasure feature of the newest Pokemon Bank to balance the game. So that stupid things like Softboiled Clefable doesn't exist(at the top of my head, my point gets hopefully across)
This isn't about a specific pokemon, but I was thinking earlier today "why is U-turn a bug-type move?" Seems like a random choice given the action of making a U-turn is just turning around and heading back the other direction, no bug influence is obvious to me. Can anyone shed some light on this?
That in itself is an oddity. Because Unown must always have Hidden Power, it is never possible to actually use TM10 to teach it Hidden Power.
It's probably a safety net for hacked ones. Or something.
Or maybe a precaution if they for whatever reason have an event giving out Unown that knows another move (like the event move Celebrate). With two moves you can now have a Move Deleter get rid of Hidden Power (why you would do this I don't know), if you do you can easily reteach it Hidden Power via TM without having to use a Heart Scale on the Move Reminder.
I think this has been mentioned before, but Aurorus not learning Aurora Veil is the most pathetic thing in Pokemon. And I'm including past stuff like "Flareon doesn't get Flare Blitz" or "Lickitung doesn't get Lick".
Aurorus is already a sad Pokemon who is already objectively bad (like, the worst defensive typing in the game, and mediocre stats all around which belie its grandiose, dinosaur qualities). Its ability is Snow Warning (which is required to use Aurora Veil), and Aurora Veil is a *TM* (why is it even a TM? that's just rubbing salt in the wound). Aurorus may not be the "Aurora Pokemon" like Suicune (who also can't learn Aurora Veil), but Aurorus has tons of "aurora" flavor, from having rainbow-colored fins that change color, and also learning Aurora Beam. Because of Aurorus's unique aurora flavor, and the fact that "Aurora Veil" is also "Aurora Veil" in Japanese, you can't tell me that this is just a "localization thing" where it only seems like an exclusion in English.
Aurorus is already a sad Pokemon who is already objectively bad (like, the worst defensive typing in the game, and mediocre stats all around which belie its grandiose, dinosaur qualities). Its ability is Snow Warning (which is required to use Aurora Veil), and Aurora Veil is a *TM* (why is it even a TM? that's just rubbing salt in the wound). Aurorus may not be the "Aurora Pokemon" like Suicune (who also can't learn Aurora Veil), but Aurorus has tons of "aurora" flavor, from having rainbow-colored fins that change color, and also learning Aurora Beam. Because of Aurorus's unique aurora flavor, and the fact that "Aurora Veil" is also "Aurora Veil" in Japanese, you can't tell me that this is just a "localization thing" where it only seems like an exclusion in English.
Last edited:
Not like Aurorus can pull it out and be better because of its really bad speed even though it has snow warning. Sad sod most likely can't even survive a round without being destroyed.
That said, that is probably another case of overlooking just like Flareon (when Atk and SpAtk hasn't been separated). Poor Aurorus man.
Things like Kyurem doesn't learn any physical ice type moves is really a huge headscratcher. No ice punch but has shadow claw and dragon claw? Maybe still OK because Kyurem has T-rex like 2-tipped claws which are too small to really punch anybody but can claw someone (as seen in anime where the claws are enlarged), but no icicle spear or even ICE FANG is really strange at best and ridiculous at worst. Kyurem has a huge gaping mouth, yet it CANNOT learn even goddamnt BITE, but somehow it learns FLY of all things.
-This also applies to Necrozma, where it learns all sorts of light-based attacks (solar beam, hyper beam, its signature Prismatic Laser and to-be-signature Photon Geyser), yet it doesn't learn dazzling gleam which is like leagues below in power like a miniature PL but somehow can't use it, as if GF intentionally limits Necrozma's power against dark types.
-The Alola guardians can't learn Play Rough (which Koko would absolutely loved it) is also weird but somewhat more understandable. But come on Koko and Lele are at least more playful...
-Buzzwole knows LOW KICK (even though the attack mentioned it attacks the lower portion of the enemy instead of actually kicking them), I mean how?
-Silvally and Null is extremely huge as a quadrupedal, hound-like pokemon......Yet it doesn't learn Earthquake nor the more powerful versions of the elemental beams, but somehow it learns IRON WING of all things. Buzzwole mentioned above CAN learn Earthquake, for some reason.
Last edited:
Design Head: Okay, we just finished designing the Kanlos Fossils.
Intern: Kalos, sir. And cool! Let's take a look. Awesome, a T-rex! And a brachiosaur? Wait, Ice/Rock? Yikes, this thing will die in one hit! What's it stats like?
DH: Slow, balanced with a sight lean toward special, and a lotta HP.
I: That's horrible!
DH: I know, probably should lower its HP and Special Attack and add it to its defense stats but the others insisted not making it a wall. Pfft, vision lackers.
I: I don't... that would have been bad... well, on the bright side, at least it can use that Special Attack to full use with Ice-type moves and Power Gem.
DH: Power what?
Honestly they probably didn't give Aurora Veil to Aurorus because it's not in the Alola dex. USUM will hopefully start distributing the Gen VII moves to non-Alolan dex Pokemon.
Let's not forget Icicle Crash and Ice Shard, despite it shown to perfectly be able to form icicles when it tried to
Or at the very least make a new Physical Fairy-type move that doesn't rely on the Pokemon being the "frolicking/playful" type. You made a new Bug-type move Lunge just for Buzzwole and Pheromosa (and Mothim, Dewpider family, and Surskit via breeding for some reason) but you couldn't extend the same forethought to the Pokemon who have more significance to the Alola region?
Correction. Buzzwole learns Low SWEEP... which in Japan is called Low Kick.
Anyway, Buzzwole has legs so I don't see it being a problem. Yeah, it prefers to punch, but if you can knock down your opponent/slow them down by tripping them with a swift kick why not?
Silvally's TM pool is a mess because they don't know what they want to do with it. It can change types so they want to give it as many elemental moves as possible but at the same time they don't want to stray too far from what its design can do.
Who's ready for some of the least thrilling trivia ever? Extremely minor USUM spoilers to follow, this is all about the addition of one move to a mon's movepool:
With these new moves, we actually have one of if not the only egg move incompatibility issues I can think of for Gen 6+ that doesn't involve incense baby Pokemon.
To get folks unfamiliar with what happened up to speed, starting with Gen 6, both male and female Pokemon became able to pass down egg moves to their offspring. Male Pokemon use to pass these moves down exclusively in Gens 2-5. That simple change made several previously impossible movesets like Belly Drum + Aqua Jet Azumarill 100% obtainable and wiped out, as far as I'm aware, every egg move incompatibility issue not routed in incense baby pokemon (Munchlax, Azurrill, etc) having different egg moves than their middle form.
One of the lone families with the potential to generate an egg move illegality was the Volbeat and Illumise family. Volbeat and Illumise have different egg move movepools, although there's a fair bit of overlap between the two. In total, up until now, Volbeat had 3 moves that couldn't be passed down by an Illumise in the form of Seismic Toss, Dizzy Punch, and Trick. There was a potential for one of those moves to be incompatible with another, but a Spinda tutored Seismic Toss in Gen 3 and Trick in Gen 4-6 allowed you to have any of those moves together.
But now, there is an incompatibility issue. Volbeat received Lunge as an egg move which, thanks to Illumise not also getting the move, is completely incompatible with both Seismic Toss and Dizzy Punch! No compatible male parent can get Lunge + Seismic Toss or Lunge + Dizzy Punch and pass it down to Volbeat. It's the first real incompatibility between egg moves since 2012 I can think of. Sorry Volbeat fans, but you can't use Lunge / Seismic Toss / Tail Glow / Baton Pass online (though I doubt USUM's default hack checking when trading and battling will even catch that).
So don't be a mean dude and use Volbeat with Lunge + Seismic Toss. I'm sure your opponent will hate you for using an illegal move combo and not laugh at the fact you're using a Volbeat.
To get folks unfamiliar with what happened up to speed, starting with Gen 6, both male and female Pokemon became able to pass down egg moves to their offspring. Male Pokemon use to pass these moves down exclusively in Gens 2-5. That simple change made several previously impossible movesets like Belly Drum + Aqua Jet Azumarill 100% obtainable and wiped out, as far as I'm aware, every egg move incompatibility issue not routed in incense baby pokemon (Munchlax, Azurrill, etc) having different egg moves than their middle form.
One of the lone families with the potential to generate an egg move illegality was the Volbeat and Illumise family. Volbeat and Illumise have different egg move movepools, although there's a fair bit of overlap between the two. In total, up until now, Volbeat had 3 moves that couldn't be passed down by an Illumise in the form of Seismic Toss, Dizzy Punch, and Trick. There was a potential for one of those moves to be incompatible with another, but a Spinda tutored Seismic Toss in Gen 3 and Trick in Gen 4-6 allowed you to have any of those moves together.
But now, there is an incompatibility issue. Volbeat received Lunge as an egg move which, thanks to Illumise not also getting the move, is completely incompatible with both Seismic Toss and Dizzy Punch! No compatible male parent can get Lunge + Seismic Toss or Lunge + Dizzy Punch and pass it down to Volbeat. It's the first real incompatibility between egg moves since 2012 I can think of. Sorry Volbeat fans, but you can't use Lunge / Seismic Toss / Tail Glow / Baton Pass online (though I doubt USUM's default hack checking when trading and battling will even catch that).
So don't be a mean dude and use Volbeat with Lunge + Seismic Toss. I'm sure your opponent will hate you for using an illegal move combo and not laugh at the fact you're using a Volbeat.
Kyurem's mouth is frozen shut when it's not merged with Reshiram or Zekrom, thus no biting moves. I have no idea how those stubby "wings" would be able to get it off the ground, however. Maybe it just leaps really, really high over really, really long distances?
I can fully imagine Buzzwole punching the ground with such force that it sets off an earthquake, though even its legs are pretty muscular for being bug legs. It's also 735.5 lbs of muscle-bound bug, so there's that.
It's Special Attack is higher anyway.
But Ratatta gets Iron Tail! Also Palkia is said to have a powerful tail...
Rattata is a physical attacker, thus makes sense GF will focus on it getting physical attacks.
Actually, your argument should probably have been "But Palkia gets Aqua Tail"! Now that's stronger evidence in Palkia's favor, showing it can use its tail to attack. As for why it doesn't get it in that case, well could be a case of it's other version counterpart is part Steel-type and, sure enough, learns Iron Tail around the same time as Palkia. Palkia gets Aqua Tail, Dialga gets Iron Tail. It's a counterpart thing. Honestly if Palkia wants a Steel-type move it should be trying to get Flash Cannon.
Honestly, Gamefreak really doesn't seem to care about that. There's plenty of physical attackers with huge special movepools, and vice versa.
Also weird movepool things: Pokemon that have level-up moves that are also egg moves for some reason.
Bare in mind a lot of those "phisical pokes with tons of special TM learned" and other way around are remnants of gen 1-3 where Phisical/Special split had not happened yet, so for example Alakazam was pretty happy to throw Thunder or Fire Punches to people in same way as phisical atkers loved Shadow Ball.
So I was looking through the USUM datamine and guess what new moves Tsareena learns.
They know what they're doing.
Punishment and Power Whip
Bumping to ask WHY THE HECK GARBODOR DOESN'T LEARN POISON JAB. It has arms. It is a Poison-type. What the heck?
Have you ever tried to stab someone with a cardboard tube?