Metagame USM Ubers Metagame & Sets Discussion (Check Post #107)

Exiline

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Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic

Not an innovation or something, but a set that has really been working right now for me, with all that necrosma staff going around. You can perhaps drop Toxic for Taunt but that depends on the team style you are running as well.
i'd highly consider charti berry as you get OHKO'ed by +2 stone edge from ultranecro
 

ILoveMilk

Banned deucer.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 192 HP / 208 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Morning Sun
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

I've been using this set, and it's had a good degree of success for me. The EV's are to out-speed no investment P-Don, and to guarantee a OHKO on +1 Z-Geo Xerneas after rocks with Searing Sunraze Smash. The Z crystal also helps in reducing knock off damage from Yveltal, avoiding a guaranteed 2HKO. Stone Edge is an option over EQ to catch Ho-Oh on the switch. Rocks can also be used to give it more utility.
 
Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Focus Blast / Grass Knot / Thunder
- Aromatherapy / [Move from above]
- Defog

Scarf Xern is a good revenge killer and now with Defog it can support its team by being a fast defogger. Works pretty well. I find the extra support with Aromatherapy is better than having an extra move as you will generally be either clicking a) Moonblast or b) Defog.
 

Lacus Clyne

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Necrozma-Ultra @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Neuroforce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Dragon Pulse / Power Gem
- Photon Geyser

Haven't really tested the other formes yet but this has been working well for me so far. Dusk-Mane is used over Dawn-Wings because of the typing to give you better set up opportunitys. You can use Power Gem over Dragon Pulse to hit Yveltal but lately many people have been using the scarf or bulky variant so its not really worth it imo atleast. Only problem I had with this set is that you are sometimes forced to not ultra (?) evolve, which means that you won't have access to your Z-Move immediately. Here is some noteworthy stuff you can OHKO.

+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 456-537 (113.1 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 630-744 (99 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 505-595 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gengar and Pursuit trapper are being seen more often lately because of this Pokémon. Better be careful to not spam it although I admit that its a great Pokémon.
 

hs

Banned deucer.
I'd like to tell about something that interested me a lot during these US/UM changes:


Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch

Now, Lucario doesn't need to rely on Iron Tail anymore, and the access to a more reliable Steel-type STAB facilitates Lucario's matchup against Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, and not just for Fairy-types, it also helps against Giratina-O, which still has a chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage. So, you don't need to worry so much about a potential miss, and also, have a chance to boost its attack, that may benefits Lucario in some cases.
 
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Figured out most people would use Dusk-Mane and Dusk Mane w/ Ultranecrozium Z over Dawn Wings. So I might as well pick up the ball where user Ezaphs have left when he partially mentioned Dawn Wings Necrozma.



Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind

Calm Mind Ultra Necrozma has a place in Ubers at checking common Defoggers such as Giratina-O and Defog Arceus forms except for Dark (don’t know will Defog Xerneas and Yveltal will be a standard set aww pls not). In addition to being part Ghost type before activating Ultra Burst also gives it a slight niche in Spinblocking, so a reliable Stealth Rock setter like Deoxys-S makes a great partner. When Stealth Rock is up, a +1 SpA can secure key KOs to the aforementioned targets:

  • 252 SpA Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-Origin: 403-475 (91.3 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 505-595 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 SpA Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Giratina: 492-583 (97.6 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
  • +1 252 SpA Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 425-499 (116.7 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Photon Geyser serves as its main STAB attacking move and Dragon Pulse is a decent STAB move which at +1 SpA KOs -SpD nature Yveltal on the switch-in after rocks. Moongeist Beam super-effectively damages Lugia, Bronzong, Gothitelle and Dusk Mane Necrozma who otherwise have a hard time dealing with and doubles as a STAB attacking move for Dawn Wings form.

Getting Necrozma to Ultra Burst ASAP isn’t always beneficial when coming across threats that Ultra-Necrozma has minor trouble busting though such as Ferrothorn or Celesteela w/o relying on its Z-move. But with a couple of Dawn Wings’ Calm Mind boosted Moongeist Beam provides the ability to do so.

The only Pokemon that walls this set is the Blobs as a +1 LTBTS does only 46.9 - 55.3% to Chansey, so better wear it down to that KO range or pursue a Psychic Terrain based team and unfortunately the uncommon TTar and CM Darkceus walls this set too.
 
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The only Pokemon that walls this set is the Blobs as a +1 LTBTS does only 46.9 - 55.3% to Chansey, so better wear it down to that KO range or pursue a Psychic Terrain based team and unfortunately the now rare CM Darkceus walls this set too.
While it isn't common, either, SpDef Pursuit Tyranitar also gives Dawn Wings a ton of issues, as it'll force you to Ultra if it happens to come in safely.

+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 121-144 (30 - 35.7%) -- 35.1% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 270-320 (80.5 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
 
While it isn't common, either, SpDef Pursuit Tyranitar also gives Dawn Wings a ton of issues, as it'll force you to Ultra if it happens to come in safely.

+1 252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 121-144 (30 - 35.7%) -- 35.1% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 270-320 (80.5 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Dang forgot about the sand boost in damage cal., I’ll re-edit my post tomorrow.
 
A few set I'm having success with on my current HO build:



Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

I was originally trying Dawn Wings Necrozma w/ the same item as I love the feeling of pain, so after realizing how bad that set is compared to Lunala, I switched and never looked back. This thing is amazing. Rolling with a timid nature to outpace most slower support Arceus formes as well as Jolly Rayquaza. Instead of running a Psychic move, I opted for Focus Blast to hit Normal and Dark types with a relatively strong attack, and Ice Beam is to hit Zygarde, Salamence, and Rayquaza without needing to boost or waste the Z move. You perhaps could run a Psychic move if you're nervous about Toxapex, but I feel these two coverage moves make Lunala's job as a breaker a lot easier, and my other set up sweepers appreciate its work.



Deoxys-Speed @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Superpower
- Magic Coat / Spikes

This set's a bit experimental and idk if I'm gonna stick with this spread for much longer, but I've been loving it so far. Superpower and the 68 Defense EVs are the crux of this set as it allows me to handle Excadrill leads a lot easier. The defense EVs enable me to never die to an Excadrill's Earthquake at -1 as they'll always click that expecting the Taunt. Admittedly, it's a bit of a guessing game with this set, but in all honesty it's always been that way with Deo-S. For the last slot, I'm switching back and forth between Magic Coat and Spikes as MC helps my matchup against opposing Deo-S while Spikes helps the team sweep easier.
 
So pardon my ignorance here.... But, will the Life Orb attacking Ho-Oh from the Smogon dex still be viable in US/UM? I feel like I might have made a mistake with my Shiny Ho-Oh now.... Since I forgot to give it Curse. (Although I guess if worse comes to worst. I can transfer one of my clones.... But, I kind of don't want to. Since those were meant to just be gifts for friends.)
 
So pardon my ignorance here.... But, will the Life Orb attacking Ho-Oh from the Smogon dex still be viable in US/UM? I feel like I might have made a mistake with my Shiny Ho-Oh now.... Since I forgot to give it Curse. (Although I guess if worse comes to worst. I can transfer one of my clones.... But, I kind of don't want to. Since those were meant to just be gifts for friends.)
I don't see why it wouldn't still work. It's not like Curse is going to be a required move on it, as some sets would rather keep their speed intact for things like weakened Zygarde-C or SpDef Dusk Mane Necrozma, while at the same time would also rather use moves like Toxic or Hidden Power Ice.
 
Curse Ho-Oh will be a nice late game bulky sweeper, but personally I still think Life Orb and Defensive will be better sets for it. I don't think Xerneas will be a good Defogger personally. It's a bit like Scizor in UU - it can do it, but it would rather be attacking. Yveltal though will be good - it easily has room for it, as its STABs only miss out on Magearna and Tyranitar (Klefki is not Ubers viable anymore). It could fit it into its Life Orb and defensive sets (Dark Pulse, Oblivion Wing, Defog, Heat Wave / Knock Off / Taunt and Foul Play, Roost, Defog, Toxic / Taunt)
 

Freeroamer

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A few set I'm having success with on my current HO build:



Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

I was originally trying Dawn Wings Necrozma w/ the same item as I love the feeling of pain, so after realizing how bad that set is compared to Lunala, I switched and never looked back. This thing is amazing. Rolling with a timid nature to outpace most slower support Arceus formes as well as Jolly Rayquaza. Instead of running a Psychic move, I opted for Focus Blast to hit Normal and Dark types with a relatively strong attack, and Ice Beam is to hit Zygarde, Salamence, and Rayquaza without needing to boost or waste the Z move. You perhaps could run a Psychic move if you're nervous about Toxapex, but I feel these two coverage moves make Lunala's job as a breaker a lot easier, and my other set up sweepers appreciate its work.



Deoxys-Speed @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Superpower
- Magic Coat / Spikes

This set's a bit experimental and idk if I'm gonna stick with this spread for much longer, but I've been loving it so far. Superpower and the 68 Defense EVs are the crux of this set as it allows me to handle Excadrill leads a lot easier. The defense EVs enable me to never die to an Excadrill's Earthquake at -1 as they'll always click that expecting the Taunt. Admittedly, it's a bit of a guessing game with this set, but in all honesty it's always been that way with Deo-S. For the last slot, I'm switching back and forth between Magic Coat and Spikes as MC helps my matchup against opposing Deo-S while Spikes helps the team sweep easier.
If your opp plays that scenario the way you’re expecting them to, you might want to consider investing EVs into Attack such that Superpower always puts Excadrill into range of Rocky Helmet recoil. That way you can SR t1 as they EQ, Superpower the next turn as you expect them to spin and as they die to Helmet recoil, SR stay up cos spin doesn’t remove them if the user dies to recoil like helm or barbs. If they spin t1 they lose Excadrill and your Deo is at near max, if they SR cos they don’t think you’ll taunt you keep your Deo at near full to Taunt something I guess or maybe set up Spikes. I haven’t used the set myself so I can’t attest to how good it is overall but this seems a more optimal way of approaching it, in my opinion anyway. It is an annoying amount of attack EVs though (188 I believe)
 

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor / Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Roost
- Defog

I haven't perfected this one, but i tried it out and it worked good. It is able to defog on defensive groudon and wear it down comfortably with dark pulse. It also is one of the few defoggers that doesn't lose to gothitelle. It happens to have great synnergy with ho oh (resisting electric, beating giratina) which struggled a lot with goth teams before. 32 speed EVs let it outspeed creeping groudons and stuff.

236+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 166-196 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 152 HP / 44 SpD Groudon-Primal: 145-172 (38.2 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
The Great Pokémon Master's Supreme Ultimate Shield



Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

I have barely played USUM Ubers, but looking at some of the new threats introduced in it, such as Ultra Necrozma and Naganadel, I have a feeling that the best teams in this metagame may be balance teams that revolve around double status Lugia, a moveset I personally invented long ago for a much older metagame. Basically, use this Pokémon to check various threats (which is a standard role for the Pokémon Lugia, even if it may be running a seemingly unorthodox moveset in this case), and paralyze fast Pokémon on the opposing team, while using Toxic to wear down Pokémon that cannot be paralyzed or do not mind paralysis, before running over the opponent's team with slow but hard-hitting Pokémon, such as Choice Band or Life Orb Ho-Oh. Speaking of Ho-Oh, the fact that the Fire/Flying-type Pokémon learns Curse now is something that probably allows it to synergize with double status Lugia even more. Catching a Gengar on the switch with Thunder Wave is especially nice, too, and Hex Mega Gengar should also work wonder when paired with double status Lugia, for obvious reasons.
 
The Great Pokémon Master's Supreme Ultimate Shield



Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

I have barely played USUM Ubers, but looking at some of the new threats introduced in it, such as Ultra Necrozma and Naganadel, I have a feeling that the best teams in this metagame may be balance teams that revolve around double status Lugia, a moveset I personally invented long ago for a much older metagame. Basically, use this Pokémon to check various threats (which is a standard role for the Pokémon Lugia, even if it may be running a seemingly unorthodox moveset in this case), and paralyze fast Pokémon on the opposing team, while using Toxic to wear down Pokémon that cannot be paralyzed or do not mind paralysis, before running over the opponent's team with slow but hard-hitting Pokémon, such as Choice Band or Life Orb Ho-Oh. Speaking of Ho-Oh, the fact that the Fire/Flying-type Pokémon learns Curse now is something that probably allows it to synergize with double status Lugia even more. Catching a Gengar on the switch with Thunder Wave is especially nice, too, and Hex Mega Gengar should also work wonder when paired with double status Lugia, for obvious reasons.
If your opponent Taunts you you're completely screwed. You're also set up fodder for Z Geomancy Xerneas that run Ingrain. As you're not running any physical attacks (or any attacks whatsoever for that matter) you're better off using a Calm nature with 0 Attack IVs. While rare, it minimises Foul Play and confusion damage.
 
I don't see why it wouldn't still work. It's not like Curse is going to be a required move on it, as some sets would rather keep their speed intact for things like weakened Zygarde-C or SpDef Dusk Mane Necrozma, while at the same time would also rather use moves like Toxic or Hidden Power Ice.
Curse Ho-Oh will be a nice late game bulky sweeper, but personally I still think Life Orb and Defensive will be better sets for it. I don't think Xerneas will be a good Defogger personally. It's a bit like Scizor in UU - it can do it, but it would rather be attacking. Yveltal though will be good - it easily has room for it, as its STABs only miss out on Magearna and Tyranitar (Klefki is not Ubers viable anymore). It could fit it into its Life Orb and defensive sets (Dark Pulse, Oblivion Wing, Defog, Heat Wave / Knock Off / Taunt and Foul Play, Roost, Defog, Toxic / Taunt)
Ah, thank you both for your responses. I was worried for a bit. Alright then, I guess I'll figure out some kind of team centered around this Ho-Oh.
 

Freeroamer

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If your opponent Taunts you you're completely screwed. You're also set up fodder for Z Geomancy Xerneas that run Ingrain. As you're not running any physical attacks (or any attacks whatsoever for that matter) you're better off using a Calm nature with 0 Attack IVs. While rare, it minimises Foul Play and confusion damage.
Why are you bringing up taunt when Lugia loses to any relevant user of it anyway? Gengar Goth and Yveltal are the most relevant Taunt users in the tier and having an attack wouldn’t hugely change Lugia’s matchup against them anyway unless you were running Psychic for Gengar maybe but that’s questionable at best. Even down to Deo-S it would make no difference lol. Every Lugia is setup fodder for Z Xern with Ingrain so again why hold it against this particular set?
 
If your opponent Taunts you you're completely screwed. You're also set up fodder for Z Geomancy Xerneas that run Ingrain. As you're not running any physical attacks (or any attacks whatsoever for that matter) you're better off using a Calm nature with 0 Attack IVs. While rare, it minimises Foul Play and confusion damage.
No moveset is without weaknesses, and both of the disadvantages you pointed out also apply to Substitute Lugia, which is the standard Lugia moveset. Also, an Impish Nature with 31 Attack IVs is better for maximizing the damage Struggle deals when this Pokémon is trapped and Taunted by a Mega Gengar.
 

Foggi

Banned deucer.


Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Toxic/Yawn
- Slack Off
- Ice Beam

So when usum mons were added on PS i had this guy on the first ever USUM team i made because i thought it would hard wall sd Ultra Necrozma, However it turned out Photon Geyser was Bugged and always used Special Defense stat and worked like pseudo Psyshock for Physical attackers on PS.

Now the move is working correctly which means mega slowbro has no way of getting beaten by SD Ultra necrozma thus making it one of the best if not the best check to it, checking stuff like Salamence, Rayquaza and working as Secondary Pdon check in one slot is really amazing. Iron Defense is mandatory to beat set up mons and 1v1 Physical Pdon with ease, Toxic is the main move i use as status however Yawn can work well especially with big Hazard support.
 

ckw

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Hey, I've come to inform you all that there was a mistake in the way Photon Geyser works on PS.

Previously, no matter whether your attack or special attack was higher, the calculations always used the opponent's special defense stat. However, this is now proven false; if your physical attack is higher, it will calc with your physical attack against the opponent's physical defense. If your special attack stat is higher, the damage calculation will still use your special attack stat agianst the opponent's special defense. This also counts for the z-move, Light That Burns The Sky as well.

The bug on PS should be fixed now and this changes Necrozma's match-ups quite a lot, as I'll illustrate below:

Ultra Necrozma vs Blissey:

252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 390-460 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (physically offensive variant)
252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 115-136 (17.6 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO (specially offensive variant)


Ultra Necrozma vs Mega Slowbro:
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 46-55 (11.6 - 13.9%) -- possible 8HKO (physically offensive variant)
252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 118-139 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- 23.7% chance to 3HKO (specially offensive variant)
Note: The damage calculator is kind of messed up atm. It considers Photon Geyser a physical move no matter what set you use so make sure to change it to special if you are running a special set.

  • If Ultra Necrozma's Special Attack and Physical Attack are equal, Photon Geyser is a special attack in this case.

Sorry for the inconvenience everyone. Feel free to discuss the meta after this change and a happy Thanksgiving to all you out there.
 
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Hey, I've come to inform you all that there was a mistake in the way Photon Geyser works on PS.

Previously, no matter whether your attack or special attack was higher, the calculations always used the opponent's special defense stat. However, this is now proven false; if your physical attack is higher, it will calc with your physical attack against the opponent's physical defense. If your special attack stat is higher, the damage calculation will still use your special attack stat agianst the opponent's special defense. This also counts for the z-move, Light That Burns The Sky as well.

The bug on PS has been fixed now and this changes Necrozma's match-ups quite a lot, as I'll illustrate below:

Ultra Necrozma vs Blissey:

252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 390-460 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (physically offensive variant)
252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 115-136 (17.6 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO (specially offensive variant)


Ultra Necrozma vs Mega Slowbro:
252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 46-55 (11.6 - 13.9%) -- possible 8HKO (physically offensive variant)
252 SpA Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 118-139 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- 23.7% chance to 3HKO (specially offensive variant)
Note: The damage calculator is kind of messed up atm. It considers Photon Geyser a physical move no matter what set you use so make sure to change it to special if you are running a special set.

Sorry for the inconvenience everyone. Feel free to discuss the meta after this change and a happy Thanksgiving to all you out there.
What happens if both attack and special attack are equal?
 
My thoughts on necrozoma is that it's not particularly threatening but it's very difficult to predict special or physical set. And the checks for physical or special sets are obviously separate, so checking necrozoma properly is highly dependent on getting the predict right. Although, I believe that with time, the dichotomy will become clear with the teammate selections. At the moment, it's all goes crapshoot, so just pick one check and hope that you get it right xd.
 
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mags

Banned deucer.
Since somebody posted a lugia set I'm gonna just say some ppl be running dtail on lugia especially defog sets. It allows you to phaze out taunt gar or goth or sd dusk mane if it doesn't want to ultra for toxic immunity etc. Personally from viewing usm the past few days and theorymonning I think balance or BO will end up being the strongest playstyles since it's gonna be so easy to remove sr vs offense with all the new defog users. If they opted to run like duskmane to sr on offense then you can take advantage of it being passive anyways. Lugia def gonna be good but also once the meta settles I think goth will return and be annoying af being able to do what it did in sm but with new targets like random things like mega slowbro which foggi mentioned. That's why I think dtail can definetly be worth it. Some things to note is that it won't be able to phaze out xerneas, random sub mons gonna be hella annoying and dtail can miss which would suck on a crucial turn.
 

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