I will think on that while I go soak a knot out of my shoulder. AFK for a while.
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NOC The Mafia Invitational Redux Game Thread - GAME OVER
- Thread starter Lrr
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this happened when AG was almost guaranteed to be lynched
I disagree, he does shade AG and say he will push him (and two other people because his lynch pool is ridiculously wide) if Asek flips scum, but he never follows through on that and instead goes for a lynch OUTSIDE OF HIS SUPER WIDE LYNCH POOL and OUTSIDE YETI'S POE when AG is the counterwagon.
going to bed and still pretty confident Lw>Epik solves this game
I might disagree with you on the order. Though I can also agree on this. Will frame more arguments later since I'm busy rn
Ehhh..... that's a really weak argument all things considered honestly.
Like I won't deny that LW has some interactions with scum that paint him in a positive light. But he also has plenty of individual things that make him seem incredibly scummy.
Like this whole argument he's making for the leet thing. It's just....really really really bad. Like that plan he described is just so terrible that it's dumb or arrogant and I don't think LW is dumb.
See, for that to work implies a few things
1. That scum would actually pay attention to what one player is saying enough to adjust their kill. Which insane. Like, what. They are going to kill leet because this one dude said he would town read him in that case?
2. It implies that leet might be killed over other people. Like ngl, the past few nights I've kinda been expecting to die given how TR'd I've generally been. I'm not alone either as yeti knew and honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised last night if KOC had died. So there's this whole concept again of, you really think this one person saying that one line is going to shift the NK
3. If you think leet is killed, then in the small chance you died you have your quotes down pushing that leet is town. Thereby not really helping town achieve their goals.
Basically, this whole thing is so incredibly stretched and nonsensical that I honestly kind of have to agree with Moody here that this seems more like LW covering up his 180 for the leet push. Because the other option I see is that LW made just a really objectively bad play and nonsencial play which I honestly just don't think he does.
See, for that to work implies a few things
1. That scum would actually pay attention to what one player is saying enough to adjust their kill. Which insane. Like, what. They are going to kill leet because this one dude said he would town read him in that case?
2. It implies that leet might be killed over other people. Like ngl, the past few nights I've kinda been expecting to die given how TR'd I've generally been. I'm not alone either as yeti knew and honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised last night if KOC had died. So there's this whole concept again of, you really think this one person saying that one line is going to shift the NK
3. If you think leet is killed, then in the small chance you died you have your quotes down pushing that leet is town. Thereby not really helping town achieve their goals.
Basically, this whole thing is so incredibly stretched and nonsensical that I honestly kind of have to agree with Moody here that this seems more like LW covering up his 180 for the leet push. Because the other option I see is that LW made just a really objectively bad play and nonsencial play which I honestly just don't think he does.
Not to mention a fair amount of hypcrisy from him
moody says (not quoting because I feel lazy)
"
Lol lightwolf is not part of a "unified group of townies" and I don't recall following you onto AG
I do recall you softly supporting the coutnerwagon to AG though"
to which he responds "So you admit that confirmed town supported a lynch against Hitmonleet in spite of suspecting AG based on their town mindset? Becuase if I'm scum Knights is clean and if Knights is scum I am clean. You may want to look for reasons to suspect people that don't fall apart when only one scum exists and people who did suspicious shit together are all scum for similar pushes :P"
This whole attitude and conclusion is just so
and doesn't read towny at all. Instead it reads as someone who is very panicky and doesn't have the numbers to pull off a win so they make crazy statements in the hopes they can pull off something (read: me in animal mafia).
He says this. But then..... doesn't do anything at all besides defending himself in a way that's half insults half just mostly nonsensical statements. Ie
moody says (not quoting because I feel lazy)
"
Lol lightwolf is not part of a "unified group of townies" and I don't recall following you onto AG
I do recall you softly supporting the coutnerwagon to AG though"
to which he responds "So you admit that confirmed town supported a lynch against Hitmonleet in spite of suspecting AG based on their town mindset? Becuase if I'm scum Knights is clean and if Knights is scum I am clean. You may want to look for reasons to suspect people that don't fall apart when only one scum exists and people who did suspicious shit together are all scum for similar pushes :P"
This whole attitude and conclusion is just so
and doesn't read towny at all. Instead it reads as someone who is very panicky and doesn't have the numbers to pull off a win so they make crazy statements in the hopes they can pull off something (read: me in animal mafia).(ftr, I keep trying to find one specific LW line and can't find it but I'm finding stuff like this). This line. This line though. This is just absolutely the worst.
What you are saying here is "I wanted them to be more likely to kill leet because they might have thought he was a mason" Like WTF dude. If you are town and think that leet has even a slightest chance of being a mason. Why tf would you want them to die. Like iirc (and maybe this wasn't you so pardon me if I my memory is failing) I thought you had said previously that you thought that leet was either mason or scum. And so just argh. This is just so convoluted and nonsensical as a town play.
So yes. To address this post. Your logic is flawed. If your logic was a boat, it would be a strainer.
"You also have not provided how as scum it benefits me to claim Hitmon would be clear after asek flips then still pushing him next day, instead of pushing that they are scum buddies from the get go and you know trying to get him mislynched without looking like a liar."
Again more bullshit. Town make townreads. Thus scum to feign town have to make town reads. Sometimes scum make town reads and then realize they need to cause mislynches and have to find people to push for said scum reads. Then realizing they have to do a 180, they make an absurd argument to cover their tracks. Sound familiar? Oh yeah, it's exactly what you did.
Ah here's the post I wanted to find. Mostly just because reading day 4, LW pushes Leet and does this whole rant about masons all the while not looking for any other scum or scum hunting.
But after a bit of that, then I find this post. Which.....before I comment on I should probably get some sleep. I have some thoughts on it, but I want to double check that with my more awake mind before I come to conclusions. So for now just requoting it so I can come back to it tomorrow (ie I do get some of the arguments here and they are pretty towny...but I want to redjudge that when I'm actually fully awake)
Firstly if your intention is to narrow down the possible lynches to 2 based on interactions with scum making the other players look better, then you HAVE to do that for yourself too. You can't fucking except to have others do it for you when from your pov one of them is scum.
1. 1 player's opinion changes things from Someone suspects Hitmon to Everyone Town Reads Hitmon while he is being thought of as mason by the general public. That is a massive difference, especially when the one person suspecting him spent most of the day shouting ot him to stop ignoring him after their second post. Stop down playing the difference without looking at the context of it, in Hitmon's number of suspecters going from 1 to 0 is a big deal, despite people pretending he was mislynch bait at the time.Like this whole argument he's making for the leet thing. It's just....really really really bad. Like that plan he described is just so terrible that it's dumb or arrogant and I don't think LW is dumb.
See, for that to work implies a few things
1. That scum would actually pay attention to what one player is saying enough to adjust their kill. Which insane. Like, what. They are going to kill leet because this one dude said he would town read him in that case?
2. It implies that leet might be killed over other people. Like ngl, the past few nights I've kinda been expecting to die given how TR'd I've generally been. I'm not alone either as yeti knew and honestly, I wouldn't have been surprised last night if KOC had died. So there's this whole concept again of, you really think this one person saying that one line is going to shift the NK
3. If you think leet is killed, then in the small chance you died you have your quotes down pushing that leet is town. Thereby not really helping town achieve their goals.
Basically, this whole thing is so incredibly stretched and nonsensical that I honestly kind of have to agree with Moody here that this seems more like LW covering up his 180 for the leet push. Because the other option I see is that LW made just a really objectively bad play and nonsencial play which I honestly just don't think he does.
2. This is not even a second point. You may have been town read, but you werent a mason suspect, everyone and their mother suspected Hitmon was a mason suspect, giving far more credibility to him flipping. Or are you saying start day 4 you were not to some extent expecting Hitmon to be a dead mason?
3. Sure the guy in everyone's poe except for my alleged scumbuddy AG is gonna get night killed by scum. Last night sure I expected if Hitmon was scum he might kill me to wifom himself out of trouble, but day 3 I had no reason to expect death coming for me, I was in an enjoyably scum read position. Why are you stretching this so far to suggest that me not expecting to be killed and having my lie recorded in the history books is scummy, when I doubt even you would think I had a chance in hell of being killed there. Don't say you are not suggesting this, because you obviously were. The only thing illogical here is your 3rd point(I can somewhat understand scepticism over my plan, since it's rooted in my own opinion that Hitmon had to be scum).
How is it Hypocrisy, I said what I will be doing and how I will draft my list up, and also said how that was not gonna happen before a darn long sleep(12 hours, was nice). Of course while I'm still up I will engage the only thing thrown at me, or are you saying I shouldn't defend myself?Not to mention a fair amount of hypcrisy from him
He says this. But then..... doesn't do anything at all besides defending himself in a way that's half insults half just mostly nonsensical statements. Ie
moody says (not quoting because I feel lazy)
"
Lol lightwolf is not part of a "unified group of townies" and I don't recall following you onto AG
I do recall you softly supporting the coutnerwagon to AG though"
to which he responds "So you admit that confirmed town supported a lynch against Hitmonleet in spite of suspecting AG based on their town mindset? Becuase if I'm scum Knights is clean and if Knights is scum I am clean. You may want to look for reasons to suspect people that don't fall apart when only one scum exists and people who did suspicious shit together are all scum for similar pushes :P"
This whole attitude and conclusion is just so
Secondly Moody's ain gripe he keeps bringing up boils down to positively reading Hitmon day 3, pushing Hitmon day 4 as a counter wagon to AG. I pointed out that he is essentially using the same argument against Knights, that he jumped on the hitmon wagon, ergo by that point he admits whatever happens a villager was willing to lynch the AG counterwagon. Ergo his argument loses scum credibilty and his only counter argument to that was to say Knights is stupid and would buy into my argument, at which I have to question if that's his argument why is he also antagonizing Knights as a suspect.
I wanted hitmon to die as town because resolving a mason you resolve by letting them get killed, so I fabricated a situation I thought mason would die. Or please are you telling me I should lynch the Mason claim or any other uncced power role instead of letting mafia first kill them to resolve it themselves because letting them live is a wifom that they can't take? Because that is STANDARD procedure when dealin with power roles, and I was solely acting based on that. EVERYONE thought Hitmon was likely mason, it was at the level that he may as well have already had claimed in effect. Trying to push the odds so Hitmon if mason and not scum actually gets killed is completely logical if I want to resolve my suspicions on him.
Secondly, if I was scum townreading Hitmon at the end of day 3, and decide to kill Yeti. Are you suggesting I thought my logic in trying to push Hitmon the next day would hold up under town scrutuny and would be justifiable under that light? Because even ignoring how I could have easily just rode on with my town cred I got after Yeti was dead and having contributed to the Asek lynch, you are suggesting then that my scum plan to seem towny while mislynching Hitmon was GASP flawed? If my plan isn't towny and doesn't make sense coming from a towny, then how can you reason I came up with it as scum to pull a 180 on hitmon trying to get him mislynched? Your arguement seems not to be it was scummy, but that it was bad and can't think of how a town would ever do it, therefore scum, while failing to consider why scum would do it then, when scum also wants to appear towny, and would try to frame it as to appear like it came from town, ergo the resulting justification for the 180 on hitmon would have been what scumwolf thinks townwolf would have done. So who do we believe here, Former Hope saying townwolf wouldn't do it or both townwolf and scumwolf saying yeah I would do this. Again your argument just like Moody's boils down to thinking my plan was bad, and town wouldn't do it, without attempting to justify it from scum perspective at any more than a macro level(Scumwolf HAS to lie to get a 180 mislynch on Hitmon) while ignoring why I would do that, why I would do it this way, why I would do it at all, and where this idea would come from if I did it as scum anyways. There is no scum equivalency in making that plan itself, you guys are just totally hung up on my perceived as bad play can't be town because YOU guys would never do it. This is the most basic mistake in mafia, trying to scum hunt based on what you would do and forcing that view on everyone and lynching who isn;t conforming to it.
Now to start ISO work, after a coffee. And some WoW. WoW and ISO yes.
Going to respond to the most jarring bits first
That is called slipping
Yes your nonexistent towncred from when you were firmly in the poe I believe ? AG hammered Asek do you think it got him any cred for "contributing" ?
I do love me some wifom
I know who I'm believing if you're asking me
How does "I'm in the poe and need to make a mislynch happen outside of it otherwise I'm 100% screwed due to town having one mislynch available before lylo" sound for a reason ?
Nice misrepresentation but pointing the finger at us and screaming CONFBIAS will not get you out of the poe so can we finally have those reads from you surely you can summarize what your opinions at this point in time are without running 3 isos first
This is, just like your #2052 post, a case of telling instead of showing what your thought process was, thus it is entirely falsifiable and we have to take your word for it that you were pulling some (not that good) mindgames instead of just being desperate for a mislynch outside of the poe of asek,ag,dle and you (you know, the one you protested against when Yeti brought it up because according to you poe are stupid ?).
Third mason is highly likely to exist and should claim now before it's too late btw
Few questions on this:
1) Could you please explain why it's likely?
2) Why wouldn't the third mason have cc'd Hitmon yesterday?
3) How is this statement coming from you different from this statement coming from Light?
Some page 92 goodies while I'm at it
D3 Lightwolf : Townreads are useless to me and that's why my lynch pool is wider than the playerlist
D4 Lightwolf : What do you mean there are other players in this game to push than Hitmonleet ?
D5 scummy Lightwolf :
D3 Lightwolf : Townreads are useless to me and that's why my lynch pool is wider than the playerlist
D4 Lightwolf : What do you mean there are other players in this game to push than Hitmonleet ?
D5 scummy Lightwolf :
I'm really sad that this is what you choose to respond to out of all the posts on this page but w/e
It's likely because if you assume that the original team was Texas/Yeti (sounds weird but not impossible) then their bickering and the way Yeti threw some shade at Texas early feel out of place. Distancing as masons obviously could have happened there but the more likely explanation is that one of them was recruited by the other who was trying to inspect a strong player ?
I've been skimming the D5 posts while I'm in your iso. Like I said before, I need to verify the source before I read the news being presented. I would also appreciate the other two questions answered.
Well what do you know, another lynch outside of Yeti's poe.
Also some more shade thrown at Leet
not going to bother answering the other two but if you want a quick summary :
I should think damn well that question two is a point of consideration.
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