this is such a lol argument. You haven't even been on the earth to do anything wrong and you get sent to hell already? For what? Existing? I thought God loved his creation?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Homosexuality
- Thread starter obi
- Start date
- Status
this is such a lol argument. You haven't even been on the earth to do anything wrong and you get sent to hell already? For what? Existing? I thought God loved his creation?
People don't "want" to be homosexuals. People are or they aren't. Biologically, a homosexual's brain is hardwired totally differently than a heterosexual brain. I'd point to wikipedia which summerizes the information pretty well... but to ignore the trouble of how accurate wikipedia is, I'll just go straight to one of the sources.
INAH 3 in homosexual males is smaller than heterosexual males but similar to heterosexual women.
Thus, there is a biological difference, similar to being taller, shorter, black, white or whatever.
I'm not arguing. I stated my opinion and I clarified a statement that you made it question my opinion.
Yes, you must repent but you can't.
Romans 3:23 : All have sinner and fallen short of the glory of God.
This is where Christ comes in
John 3:16 : For God so loved the world that he send is only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Yes, you must repent but you can't.
Romans 3:23 : All have sinner and fallen short of the glory of God.
This is where Christ comes in
John 3:16 : For God so loved the world that he send is only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
I for one think it is stupid to bring up the bible in a general secular discussion. Frankly speaking, atheists don't care and too many atheists are on this forum.
Nonetheless, I'd like to point out as a Catholic: throwing one or two verses in the bible builds a very poor argument. Every verse in the bible has context, and only one who has actually read the Bible would understand the whole story.
Nonetheless, I'd like to point out as a Catholic: throwing one or two verses in the bible builds a very poor argument. Every verse in the bible has context, and only one who has actually read the Bible would understand the whole story.
Agreed. Also, even if we chose to be homosexuals, why would we?
A person deemed gay faces more persecution than you could ever handle, and I hate to restate, but when did you choose to be straight?
A person deemed gay faces more persecution than you could ever handle, and I hate to restate, but when did you choose to be straight?
"'My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord. 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
That dude is God the son part of the trinity. He is not just some dude he is god and is a perfect sacrifice. If you are really interesting in finding out more then read the Bible.
I really like all of the 'well lesbians are ok but gay guys are alright i guess i mean as long as they don't come on to me' posts. While I know there are a handful of exceptions of course... you're a straight guy arguing about homosexuality on a pokemon forum. I kinda doubt you're going to have to worry about attracting too many people of either gender.
Anyway...
You didn't quote anything, but I assume that this is in reference to whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
Going further with that, no, it is not an opinion. I hate linking to wiki in serious topics but the article is sourced relatively well so feel free and check them out if you don't like the fact its from wikipedia
Ok yeah, far be it for me to question what you're posting on an internet message board, but honestly why don't you attempt to come up with something a little more convincing than that? You might be able to get by quoting scripture in real life with 90% of the country self identifying as Christians, but the population of this forum is overwhelmingly stacked in the other direction so if you're going make a post in a debate thread you should probably try and have an argument that's a little more convincing than 'GOD TOLD ME SO.'
EDIT: With your last post I'm actually almost positive you're trolling. I'd try and stop giving that impression.
Anyway...
You didn't quote anything, but I assume that this is in reference to whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
Going further with that, no, it is not an opinion. I hate linking to wiki in serious topics but the article is sourced relatively well so feel free and check them out if you don't like the fact its from wikipedia
Ok yeah, far be it for me to question what you're posting on an internet message board, but honestly why don't you attempt to come up with something a little more convincing than that? You might be able to get by quoting scripture in real life with 90% of the country self identifying as Christians, but the population of this forum is overwhelmingly stacked in the other direction so if you're going make a post in a debate thread you should probably try and have an argument that's a little more convincing than 'GOD TOLD ME SO.'
EDIT: With your last post I'm actually almost positive you're trolling. I'd try and stop giving that impression.
Lol, sorry but this argument has degenerated to stupidity almost... :(
I'm also a catholic, and I feel in need to make things clearer again. :|
First of all, it's not true that being a homosexual means you're going to hell. From where did you hear that? The church does not condemn the person. The church condemns the homosexual acts. That means that, as long as the homosexual abstains from performing sex with the same sex, he's not condemned. (I know, it sounds a bit lol, but that's what the church teaches.
)
Secondly, the government shouldn't care about what catholics, or any person, believes. If laws are discriminating against gays, then that's wrong, and the government should fix that. Simple as that.
I'm also a catholic, and I feel in need to make things clearer again. :|
First of all, it's not true that being a homosexual means you're going to hell. From where did you hear that? The church does not condemn the person. The church condemns the homosexual acts. That means that, as long as the homosexual abstains from performing sex with the same sex, he's not condemned. (I know, it sounds a bit lol, but that's what the church teaches.
)Secondly, the government shouldn't care about what catholics, or any person, believes. If laws are discriminating against gays, then that's wrong, and the government should fix that. Simple as that.
I was refereeing to Christianity being an opinion with no fact base. I am sorry to seem like I'm trolling.
Man, I don't know which brach of Chrisitanity you hail from, but this ain't true. There is a deffinent order to the severities of sins. For example, stealing a loaf of bread or banging your nieghbors wife both pail in comparison to using the Lord's name in vain. Hope you don't say Goddammmit much. And trust me I know this. I spent 11 years in Catholic school getting this drilled into my head.
Also, the basic view on the Churches stance on gay marriage is its alrite to be gay, but you can't act on your urges. But that view may even be shifting now as I recall religion teachers teaching a more accepting view on homosexuality only a year after I graduated.
Dude, what are you trying to say? The only reason I posted on this discussion was in hopes of finding a chick that was impressed by my excepting views :( Why else would I even bother posting in this forum?
quinnydinny said:
That sounds so much like troll it's not even funny. >.<
God is meant to save, that's basically like saying if I lie about not doing my homework, I'm meant for an entire eternity (lol) in burning flames.
@quinnydinny- I find myself confused repeatedly on this topic, having grown up reading Leviticus repeatedly and the words "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" stuck in my mind (Leviticus 18:22). (for those of you w/o a popped KJV cherry: 'Thou shalt not lie with another man as you do a woman')
It appears the bible is very clear on this standpoint, but it says it again a chapter later- "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).
Seems pretty clear to me, although here's where I get tripped up. But I guess it's all on how you view it, because it says nothing about holding feelings for a person with the same sex- only actions with them. So it's entirely okay to love them as a person with the opposite gender, just as long as you don't 'freaknasteh' the same way as with a woman (from a guy's standpoint). But again, I'm not the most hardcore christian in the land- if others want to back me up/tear me down, that's cool too.
You must be joking.
Fuck me, can you not grasp the concept of forgiveness, which is what 99.99% of Christianity is based on, every sin is equal but Christians (am I one) believe that God will forgive you if you repent and change your ways. The only sin which is unforgiveable (iirc) is a sin against the Holy Spirit. Sinning does not neccesarily mean that you will go to hell, something which fundamentalists and Jehovah Witnesses must stop intimidating people with
did you read the whole thing or just stop there?
Equal in penalty which is the thing that matters right?
Edit: With all religious beliefs aside I completely agree with brains post below. Since religion doesn't really matter in the laws anyway. It pretty much goes that if it doesn't hurt anyone its fine.
Equal in penalty which is the thing that matters right?
Edit: With all religious beliefs aside I completely agree with brains post below. Since religion doesn't really matter in the laws anyway. It pretty much goes that if it doesn't hurt anyone its fine.
So if it was a choice, they would be evil?
This has absolutely nothing to do with choice. If person X murders person Y, it's wrong, period, and we have to do what it takes to prevent further damage. If X has a genetic disorder that makes him a blood thirsty serial killer, I just don't give a fuck that he didn't "choose" to kill people. I'm locking him up.
If homosexuality is wrong, it doesn't matter if it is genetic, it doesn't matter if people choose to be homosexual or not. The reason why homosexuality isn't wrong is that it doesn't hurt anyone and does not threaten survival in any way.
I would say that, in general, a disease is something that people who have it would want to get rid of. If a person lives a perfectly happy and fulfilling life with a partner of the same sex, calling his or her condition a "disease" is arrogant and demeaning. It's not like (outside of peer pressure) all gays are complaining about how they would love to become straight.
This. We've had a discussion on biology class where our teacher asked us if we'd rather have a homossexual child or a son with a drug addiction. I was surprised to see that most of the people on my class would rather have someone with an addiction that an homossexual. Most of the arguments they used against homossexuality Obi has already pointed out, they went along 'unnatural', 'the addiction could be cured', 'i'd die of shame'.
The language barrier doesn't allow me to express my point across as good as I would like to do, so to say the least, I'm all for homossexual marriage.
It's amazing how people manage to think of homossexuality as an extra-terrestrial trait... Most of my colleagues spoke of it as a disease.
If there's one thing I don't think I can agree to is for two men to have a child. I don't think any men, more feminine or not, can replace a mother, not to mention the kid would get so much shit during school. That is a whole other issue though, and I'm sure there are plenty reasons to let two men have a kid, but for now this is what I think.
id rather have a drug addicted child too. you can beat the drugs out but you cant beat the gay out
Doomsday said:
I see this a lot but I'm not really sure I agree with the logic...
I don't see why they need to 'replace a mother.' There are plenty of children that grow up without mothers or fathers(or really any parents at all in situations like orphanages) and don't have any real negative mental consequences. The kid 'getting shit' really isn't a great argument either - it's not any different than the type of taunting kids get for being poor or fat or dumb or ugly or whatever; children will always think of petty reasons to mock one another. It's just something most kids try to do to be accepted prior to being adults, I guess.
The other thing that you didn't mentioned that gets brought up a lot is that gay parents would raise gay children, but that makes sense, since straight parents only raise straight children.
Of course in my case I loathe children so I don't care too much about this aspect of the debate, ha ha ha.
oh come on atlas :/
The kid will indeed grow up with the idea that having two fathers (technically not, but you get the idea) is normal. However, it's when it begins to compare his situations to other kids' (around the age it goes to school), it might notice something is different and it'll miss something, even if through instinct. Not in all cases, but I can imagine it happening like that perfectly fine.
Yes, kids might get picked on for having a gay father. But that's more of a reason to ban teasing in schools than to ban gay marriage, but both of these are ridiculous and it's practically impossible to do anyway.
Whether gay people raise gay children I do not know - I prefer to think gay parents would teach their kid that it isn't "odd" to be gay, and that they're also wise enough to tell the kid that it isn't better to be gay or heterosexual or bi or anything, so that he can develop just the same if not more rationally than other kids.
Don't hate children.
The kid will indeed grow up with the idea that having two fathers (technically not, but you get the idea) is normal. However, it's when it begins to compare his situations to other kids' (around the age it goes to school), it might notice something is different and it'll miss something, even if through instinct. Not in all cases, but I can imagine it happening like that perfectly fine.
Yes, kids might get picked on for having a gay father. But that's more of a reason to ban teasing in schools than to ban gay marriage, but both of these are ridiculous and it's practically impossible to do anyway.
Whether gay people raise gay children I do not know - I prefer to think gay parents would teach their kid that it isn't "odd" to be gay, and that they're also wise enough to tell the kid that it isn't better to be gay or heterosexual or bi or anything, so that he can develop just the same if not more rationally than other kids.
Don't hate children.
- Status