BH Balanced Hackmons

This set can't touch Giratina unless it runs the third slashed move on your fourth slot. Even then, Draco Meteor coming from Arceus does not beat Giratina.
U forget that judgement is a 2HKO and OHKO after tail glow

To get the discussion kicked off I want to start off with my new favorite toy

The killer:

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip​

Pretty basic set that I theorymonned on the fly but it really takes advantage of old and new mechanics in the following ways
  • A rare self-contained Imposter proof set not named Gengar
  • Power Trip for massive damage
  • Sunsteel simultaneously takes care of fairies, shed and unaware
  • Extremely effective switch in for Psychic Terrain Psychic mons that can take advantage of disabled priority
  • New built-in immunity to Prankster targeting effects including parting and topsy

Also everyone who hates the Z-Move Assist newly developed strategy, feel free to throw the blame at me lol
So, alternativeley it is possible to use a Necrozma-Ultra with Stored Power
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
U forget that judgement is a 2HKO and OHKO after tail glow
You just edited it to change it to Dread Plate. While Dark type Judgment is more effective than the Normal type you had, it is still less than ideal for taking out Giratina since it doesn't benefit from STAB. It would be annoying to face with Taunt, for sure, but it is shut down by Unaware mons.

Also, since Arceus is not actually Dark type without Multitype + Plate, you are not immune to Prankster moves. Even if you were an actual Dark type, imposter could win the speed tie and use imprison first to cripple you. So improofing gets sketchy unless you use Imprison right when you come in.
 
In this Case, Arceus is Immune to Spectral thief, so it can setup Tail Glow and KO with dark pulse which replaces Judgement here.
Prankster + Imprison will also make it imposter proof
 

Storm Eagle

Banned deucer.
Frankly I don't understand why Arceus should be used as a Giratina check/counter at all. Arceus has terrible offenses and should really only be used as a niche support mon/Poison Heal sweeper. Anything with less than 150 base Attack/Special Attack is mediocre, and anything with less than 130 Attack/Special Attack is considered to be passive. In the max EVs metagame, 120 Attack/Special Attack does not cut it for most Pokemon unless you're specifically aiming to outspeed something. Arceus' niche is being not only bulky but fast as it can outspeed Mega Diancie and Mega Rayquaza. Giratina is not a fast Pokemon by any means.

Even with the Griseous Orb, Spectral Thief does negligible damage against Fairy-types like Mega Diancie. If you're really having trouble with it, Poison Heal Xerneas hard counters Giratina. Mega Diancie is more versatile while Xerneas serves the setup sweeper niche. Giratina wouldn't stay in on your Xerneas to use Spectral Thief. Unfortunately, those two Fairies are the two fastest ones you'll want to use. Any Fairy faster than Mega Diancie is garbage. If you want to use something faster that still beats Giratina, then your only choices are Dragon or Ghost-types.

Giratina should be the least of your worries; offensive Pokemon like Mega Mewtwo Y are far more concerning in the current metagame. Giratina is difficult to knock out quickly but is not threatening offensively. Giratina beats setup sweepers, yeah, but you can use Fairy-types or Pokemon with boosting abilities/items like Tough Claws or Choice Specs to beat Giratina.
 
//Edit: Posted something else with response
In this Case, Arceus is Immune to Spectral thief, so it can setup Tail Glow and KO with dark pulse which replaces Judgement here.
Prankster + Imprison will also make it imposter proof
I recommend rev dance over dark pulse. But why arceus? If you want to kill gira there's better options like Pixilate Dianci, which is also a far more threatening attacker and isn't always walled by unaware mons.

Mega Dianci can also switch in and ohko with boomburst,

252+ SpA Arceus-Dark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Diancie-Mega: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

252 SpA Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Dark: 446-528 (100.4 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
In this Case, Arceus is Immune to Spectral thief, so it can setup Tail Glow and KO with dark pulse which replaces Judgement here.
Prankster + Imprison will also make it imposter proof
Alright, so I'm not sure what your set is at this point but it seems something like this:

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Modest Nature
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 0 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe / 252 Sp
- Tail Glow
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt
- Imprison

If this is indeed the set, I have to say it is a fairly lackluster method of beating Prankster Giratina. One of the more common and more successful ways to beat Prankster Giratina or any variant really is by using Pixilate Diancie or Refrigerate Kyurem-B. These mons can hit for massive damage with Boomburst while also outspeeding Prankster Destiny Bond with Extreme Speed to avoid being taken with it. Diancie also has the added advantage of being immune to Core Enforcer.

And for imposter, your set is not completely improof unless you plan on clicking Imprison first each time you come on the field. Otherwise, Imposter can risk the speed tie and use Imprison first to force you out.
 
Quick nitpick: Night Daze is superior to Dark Pulse. It has higher damage and also has the often overlooked, yet obscene, benefit of having a 40% chance to reduce the opponent's accuracy. It only falters a bit against Imposter since they can potentialy accuracy hax you.

If you have never run Serene Grace Night Daze before, you are missing out on delicious tears.

Worth noting Revelation Dance does slightly more damage than Night Daze though, but that's only relevant for those who get it as a Dark-type move anyway.
 
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A fun team which I have been using quite bit. Wanted to build a team around a normalise Regi and Shed. Decided to scarf Regi to surprise other sweepers such as MMYs. Sniper MMY to act as a special sweeper which sweep through most walls in the meta as well as being imposter-proofed due to Shed. Pixilate Aud to mainly provide spin support and to again surprise others. Gengar Mega as was looking for a final sweeper who can self-imposter proof. Added sunsteel instead of leech seed incase the Shed decides to just uturn. Zygarde with prankster to counter setup sweepers either via encore to allow regi to explode or aud to spectral or just Dbond. been doing pretty well with the team, but mainly due to the surprise factor lol.

Regigigas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Explosion
- Trick
- U-turn

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Psycho Boost
- Fleur Cannon
- Overheat

Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Spiky Shield
- U-turn
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Encore
- U-turn
- Destiny Bond

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Sunsteel Strike
- Sludge Wave

Audino-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Boomburst
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn
 

rickienon

I COULD BE BANNED!
You beches don't know how to play in this tier so let me help you beches,
My name on ps is azurillia

Know Your Palace (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Trip
- Shift Gear
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic Thread

So Dark type allows you to block Prankster-boosted Heart Swap and other annoying anti-sweeper status moves for babies who are not eligible for this game because they don't know when to switch. "oh hehe lol i have topsy turvy i dont need to worry about contraty sweepers xddd" -> Retard Quote

> Shift Gear allows you to 3x Spe and 2x Atk for mothabumba Attack damage
> Diamond Storm gives you 3x Def for %50 chance, which makes you a REAL WALL (bye Avalugg, you bech)
> Power Trip now yeah bech the boosts from SG and DS allows you to use this 220-power fake Z-move wallbreak looool
> Toxic Thread is for switch-in slow
> Iapapa Berry is lol you're tank
> Iapapa + Toxic T allows you to beat Endeavor Shedinja in 1v1

Now you can't COUNTER this set dude, because this is the BEST AGGRESSIVE MON SET IN BH!

Copyright: Azurillia
 
You beches don't know how to play in this tier so let me help you beches,
My name on ps is azurillia

Know Your Palace (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Trip
- Shift Gear
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic Thread

So Dark type allows you to block Prankster-boosted Heart Swap and other annoying anti-sweeper status moves for babies who are not eligible for this game because they don't know when to switch. "oh hehe lol i have topsy turvy i dont need to worry about contraty sweepers xddd" -> Retard Quote

> Shift Gear allows you to 3x Spe and 2x Atk for mothabumba Attack damage
> Diamond Storm gives you 3x Def for %50 chance, which makes you a REAL WALL (bye Avalugg, you bech)
> Power Trip now yeah bech the boosts from SG and DS allows you to use this 220-power fake Z-move wallbreak looool
> Toxic Thread is for switch-in slow
> Iapapa Berry is lol you're tank
> Iapapa + Toxic T allows you to beat Endeavor Shedinja in 1v1

Now you can't COUNTER this set dude, because this is the BEST AGGRESSIVE MON SET IN BH!

Copyright: Azurillia
i don't care about ur tyranitar set it is imposter inproof
and simple is the worst ability ever if u can have unburden to 2x speed after berry consumed or a berry that raises a stat for ptrip and unburden
 

Ren

fuck it if i cant have him
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'm afraid Coldembrace that u should run secret power as a move on shed and safety goggles as an item, while safwguard is also awesome
You beches don't know how to play in this tier so let me help you beches,
My name on ps is azurillia

Know Your Palace (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Trip
- Shift Gear
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic Thread

So Dark type allows you to block Prankster-boosted Heart Swap and other annoying anti-sweeper status moves for babies who are not eligible for this game because they don't know when to switch. "oh hehe lol i have topsy turvy i dont need to worry about contraty sweepers xddd" -> Retard Quote

> Shift Gear allows you to 3x Spe and 2x Atk for mothabumba Attack damage
> Diamond Storm gives you 3x Def for %50 chance, which makes you a REAL WALL (bye Avalugg, you bech)
> Power Trip now yeah bech the boosts from SG and DS allows you to use this 220-power fake Z-move wallbreak looool
> Toxic Thread is for switch-in slow
> Iapapa Berry is lol you're tank
> Iapapa + Toxic T allows you to beat Endeavor Shedinja in 1v1

Now you can't COUNTER this set dude, because this is the BEST AGGRESSIVE MON SET IN BH!

Copyright: Azurillia
Ban_that_shit the most optimal Shedinja set with your suggestion:
Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Spiky Shield
- U-turn
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock / Secret Power

Secret Power is honest to God awful in this tier. It offers no coverage, has no priority, and from Shedinja it isn't even that good. It's just not a move you should be running.

Coldembrace for a better Shedinja set, you can check out Shedinja's BH analysis located here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/shedinja/bh/ This has a detailed overview of Shedinja, an example set, and various team options you need.

rickienon I'm glad you decided to post that set, but Simple Shift Gear Tyranitar is outclassed by other sets, such as Simple Shell Smash, Unburden Shell Smash, Dazzling Shell Smash, Belly Drum Unburden, Toxic Orb setup, or... Pretty much anything else. Your set is annoying to Imposterproof as well, and offers no outstanding benefit for that risk compared to other sets. Also, with Simple Shift Gear you don't need Toxic Thread, you can run another option. Prankster Heart Swap isn't relevant in this generation because of Dark-types, so being immune to it doesn't do much for Tyranitar. Prankster Topsy Turvy, on the other hand, still gets some usage so at least it has that going for it. Also, what does having Topsy Turvy to beat Contrary have to do with beating your set? Your set isn't even a Contrary set...
 

rickienon

I COULD BE BANNED!
-long text-

rickienon I'm glad you decided to post that set, but Simple Shift Gear Tyranitar is outclassed by other sets, such as Simple Shell Smash, Unburden Shell Smash, Dazzling Shell Smash, Belly Drum Unburden, Toxic Orb setup, or... Pretty much anything else. Your set is annoying to Imposterproof as well, and offers no outstanding benefit for that risk compared to other sets. Also, with Simple Shift Gear you don't need Toxic Thread, you can run another option. Prankster Heart Swap isn't relevant in this generation because of Dark-types, so being immune to it doesn't do much for Tyranitar. Prankster Topsy Turvy, on the other hand, still gets some usage so at least it has that going for it. Also, what does having Topsy Turvy to beat Contrary have to do with beating your set? Your set isn't even a Contrary set...

By the way - I think you meant "Know your place" instead of "Know your palace." Not that it matters much, but I figured I would fix that too.
Oh sorry, I was just trolling with my A+ grammar :D

Contrary sets can be beaten by Imposter/Heart Swap/Topsy Turvy sets (which is get supported by magic bounce setup sweepers) This Tyranitar set does not need any support to it; It can play around Haze and already Immune to Prankster spells. The only move that checks it is S. Thief Users (which is get OHKO'ed by +2 6x20 Power Trip)

Now the problem is, -ate Ex Speed users can easily revenge kill SS Tyra (with a support of Core Enforcer for removing dazzling, etc) and Imprison Yveltal is popular right now, people who play this tier also brings their own support mon to counter specific things. I am not saying that this set rocks (not sarcasm), even stall, semistall or defensive mons like M-Bulba can stall this mon with Toxic.

On the other hand, if you set up and remove mons correctly, SimpGearTar can be a click-to-win sweeper. I published this set because it is "wise" to build this way and 3x Def can be a lifesaver after you set up your SG because carrying your Def to astronomical levels can be very annoying against -ate users. Yes, there is a lot of downsides of this set, but even the Triage sets cannot OHKO this mon easily and gets knocked back by PT, this set can help new players to learn what moves are used in tier.
toxic thread is an expection xd
 
I see that secret power is a "bad" move but it dosen't make contact which gives u freedom of runninig lum berry or safety goggles

A fun team which I have been using quite bit. Wanted to build a team around a normalise Regi and Shed. Decided to scarf Regi to surprise other sweepers such as MMYs. Sniper MMY to act as a special sweeper which sweep through most walls in the meta as well as being imposter-proofed due to Shed. Pixilate Aud to mainly provide spin support and to again surprise others. Gengar Mega as was looking for a final sweeper who can self-imposter proof. Added sunsteel instead of leech seed incase the Shed decides to just uturn. Zygarde with prankster to counter setup sweepers either via encore to allow regi to explode or aud to spectral or just Dbond. been doing pretty well with the team, but mainly due to the surprise factor lol.

Regigigas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Explosion
- Trick
- U-turn

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Razor Claw
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Psycho Boost
- Fleur Cannon
- Overheat

Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Spiky Shield
- U-turn
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Encore
- U-turn
- Destiny Bond

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Sunsteel Strike
- Sludge Wave

Audino-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Boomburst
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn
honestly i wonder what gengar's set has to do thereu should usee moongeist beam instead of sunsteel strike, and spore instead of judgement, also Spooky Plate is not the best item, i think sash should do better, or espescially for adaptility life orb is a good option

You beches don't know how to play in this tier so let me help you beches,
My name on ps is azurillia

Know Your Palace (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Trip
- Shift Gear
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic Thread

So Dark type allows you to block Prankster-boosted Heart Swap and other annoying anti-sweeper status moves for babies who are not eligible for this game because they don't know when to switch. "oh hehe lol i have topsy turvy i dont need to worry about contraty sweepers xddd" -> Retard Quote

> Shift Gear allows you to 3x Spe and 2x Atk for mothabumba Attack damage
> Diamond Storm gives you 3x Def for %50 chance, which makes you a REAL WALL (bye Avalugg, you bech)
> Power Trip now yeah bech the boosts from SG and DS allows you to use this 220-power fake Z-move wallbreak looool
> Toxic Thread is for switch-in slow
> Iapapa Berry is lol you're tank
> Iapapa + Toxic T allows you to beat Endeavor Shedinja in 1v1

Now you can't COUNTER this set dude, because this is the BEST AGGRESSIVE MON SET IN BH!

Copyright: Azurillia
i honestly wonder why you say it's the best agressive set, if u can just run a sturdy power herb geomancy stored power necrozma ultra (u can use shell smash instead of geomancy and white herb instead of power, or triage mewtwo, triage rayquazza, contrary rayquaza, contrary slaking or tail glow doom desire dialga

and a lot of else offensive mons

Oh sorry, I was just trolling with my A+ grammar :D

Contrary sets can be beaten by Imposter/Heart Swap/Topsy Turvy sets (which is get supported by magic bounce setup sweepers) This Tyranitar set does not need any support to it; It can play around Haze and already Immune to Prankster spells. The only move that checks it is S. Thief Users (which is get OHKO'ed by +2 6x20 Power Trip)

Now the problem is, -ate Ex Speed users can easily revenge kill SS Tyra (with a support of Core Enforcer for removing dazzling, etc) and Imprison Yveltal is popular right now, people who play this tier also brings their own support mon to counter specific things. I am not saying that this set rocks (not sarcasm), even stall, semistall or defensive mons like M-Bulba can stall this mon with Toxic.

On the other hand, if you set up and remove mons correctly, SimpGearTar can be a click-to-win sweeper. I published this set because it is "wise" to build this way and 3x Def can be a lifesaver after you set up your SG because carrying your Def to astronomical levels can be very annoying against -ate users. Yes, there is a lot of downsides of this set, but even the Triage sets cannot OHKO this mon easily and gets knocked back by PT, this set can help new players to learn what moves are used in tier.
toxic thread is an expection xd
Spectral thief Magearna / Diancie / any mon that lives a power trip after 1x shift gear = ur tyranitar goes down
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
I see that secret power is a "bad" move but it dosen't make contact which gives u freedom of runninig lum berry or safety goggles
shed runs secret power in standard because it's the only non contact physical move it gets. in bh there are obviously better examples of these moves, including sacred fire, gunk shot, shadow bone, and others, but protective pads is the best set either way.

honestly i wonder what gengar's set has to do thereu should usee moongeist beam instead of sunsteel strike, and spore instead of judgement, also Spooky Plate is not the best item, i think sash should do better, or espescially for adaptility life orb is a good option
although i agree that sunsteel gar is bad, the set you suggested loses to imposter which is also kinda lame. imo the best way to deal with shed on that set is to run mold breaker, so you can still be imposter-proof and you have another slot to run shell smash or something.

every sweeper has counterplay; if it didn't it would be broken. that being said, the ttar set is worse than lots of other sweepers imo, because it has a lot of answers.

prankster haze users can negate your boosts for free unless diamond storm hits them super effectively (although to be fair, you can poison them which is ok). imposter beats you. bulky mons like zygarde-c can take a boosted hit and retaliate with spectral. priority like triage ray giga drain, diancie espeed, heracross drain punch, and kartana bullet punch can pick off this mon after a bit of chip.

basically what i'm trying to say here is that there are usually better options. for example, contrary mega sceptile shares ttar's weaknesses to priority and imposter, but it has several benefits over it such as beating prankster haze, pressuring defensive mons like giratina at +0, and functioning as a revenge killer if needed thanks to its amazing speed.
 
Quick nitpick: Night Daze is superior to Dark Pulse. It has higher damage and also has the often overlooked, yet obscene, benefit of having a 40% chance to reduce the opponent's accuracy. It only falters a bit against Imposter since they can potentialy accuracy hax you.

If you have never run Serene Grace Night Daze before, you are missing out on delicious tears.

Worth noting Revelation Dance does slightly more damage than Night Daze though, but that's only relevant for those who get it as a Dark-type move anyway.
I see that secret power is a "bad" move but it dosen't make contact which gives u freedom of runninig lum berry or safety goggles



honestly i wonder what gengar's set has to do thereu should usee moongeist beam instead of sunsteel strike, and spore instead of judgement, also Spooky Plate is not the best item, i think sash should do better, or espescially for adaptility life orb is a good option



i honestly wonder why you say it's the best agressive set, if u can just run a sturdy power herb geomancy stored power necrozma ultra (u can use shell smash instead of geomancy and white herb instead of power, or triage mewtwo, triage rayquazza, contrary rayquaza, contrary slaking or tail glow doom desire dialga

and a lot of else offensive mons



Spectral thief Magearna / Diancie / any mon that lives a power trip after 1x shift gear = ur tyranitar goes down

Pixilate shed for life! Anyways, use ice shard for a solid non contact move with priority, only run spikey shield with pads to improof. There's plenty of better non contact moves. Spooky plate is to make judgment ghost type to self improof it. You don't need moongeist + judgment, you already stall out shed. Though I've got a soft spot for scarf Adaptability, getting that ohko on MMY is the best feeling.

Oh sorry, I was just trolling with my A+ grammar :D

Contrary sets can be beaten by Imposter/Heart Swap/Topsy Turvy sets (which is get supported by magic bounce setup sweepers) This Tyranitar set does not need any support to it; It can play around Haze and already Immune to Prankster spells. The only move that checks it is S. Thief Users (which is get OHKO'ed by +2 6x20 Power Trip)

Now the problem is, -ate Ex Speed users can easily revenge kill SS Tyra (with a support of Core Enforcer for removing dazzling, etc) and Imprison Yveltal is popular right now, people who play this tier also brings their own support mon to counter specific things. I am not saying that this set rocks (not sarcasm), even stall, semistall or defensive mons like M-Bulba can stall this mon with Toxic.

On the other hand, if you set up and remove mons correctly, SimpGearTar can be a click-to-win sweeper. I published this set because it is "wise" to build this way and 3x Def can be a lifesaver after you set up your SG because carrying your Def to astronomical levels can be very annoying against -ate users. Yes, there is a lot of downsides of this set, but even the Triage sets cannot OHKO this mon easily and gets knocked back by PT, this set can help new players to learn what moves are used in tier.
toxic thread is an expection xd
A dope Tyranitar set Wildbeast posted before is

Why aren't you running Sacred Sword noob (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Ice Hammer
- Multi-Attack

Let's you set up on normalize gengar and other mons also somehwat self improofed
 
I'm just asking about these sets right here, and would like somebody to rate them, since i've seen a lot of refriegerate kyu-bs in the metagame i were inspired to make them:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
- Flare Blitz

Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Imprison
- Power Trip

You beches don't know how to play in this tier so let me help you beches,
My name on ps is azurillia

Know Your Palace (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Trip
- Shift Gear
- Diamond Storm
- Toxic Thread

So Dark type allows you to block Prankster-boosted Heart Swap and other annoying anti-sweeper status moves for babies who are not eligible for this game because they don't know when to switch. "oh hehe lol i have topsy turvy i dont need to worry about contraty sweepers xddd" -> Retard Quote

> Shift Gear allows you to 3x Spe and 2x Atk for mothabumba Attack damage
> Diamond Storm gives you 3x Def for %50 chance, which makes you a REAL WALL (bye Avalugg, you bech)
> Power Trip now yeah bech the boosts from SG and DS allows you to use this 220-power fake Z-move wallbreak looool
> Toxic Thread is for switch-in slow
> Iapapa Berry is lol you're tank
> Iapapa + Toxic T allows you to beat Endeavor Shedinja in 1v1

Now you can't COUNTER this set dude, because this is the BEST AGGRESSIVE MON SET IN BH!

Copyright: Azurillia
Saying "best agressive set" i got a reply for u right here, altough i admit it's imposter inproof

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Amnesia
- Power Trip
- Photon Geyser
 
I'm just asking about these sets right here, and would like somebody to rate them, since i've seen a lot of refriegerate kyu-bs in the metagame i were inspired to make them:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
- Flare Blitz

Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Imprison
- Power Trip



Saying "best agressive set" i got a reply for u right here, altough i admit it's imposter inproof

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Amnesia
- Power Trip
- Photon Geyser
I'm just asking about these sets right here, and would like somebody to rate them, since i've seen a lot of refriegerate kyu-bs in the metagame i were inspired to make them:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
- Flare Blitz

Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Imprison
- Power Trip



Saying "best agressive set" i got a reply for u right here, altough i admit it's imposter inproof

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Amnesia
- Power Trip
- Photon Geyser
why aerilate if your not using e-speed or boomburst? Running sash and flareblitz is a bad combo and most kyu-b carry e-speed anyways. So you could try dazzling rayquaza or just have a steel type wall it.

For Necrozma you can straight up run shell smash, it gives you about the same boosts as shift gear + amneisa which is begging for a spectral. Fur coat is negligible and you would be better off running flash fire for will-o or to setup on MMY, (I ran levitate once to meme sheer force MMY)

In that free slot you could run some utility or sunsteel for stab.

EDIT: For the Zweilous set only 1 word, Spectral.

Also as it's been said before defensive sets don't offer much and are too prone to being hazed or stolen. And in general take too long to get ready
 
Last edited:

Storm Eagle

Banned deucer.
Rayquaza-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
- Flare Blitz
I like the idea, the problem is I think this set tries to accomplish three things at once. It tries to be a setup sweeper, a mon with priority, and a mon with strong coverage. If you want a good physical Mega Ray setup set, there's DazzleSmash. Dazzling goes well with Shell Smash. Otherwise, the best setup Mega Ray sets are Special, more specifically Triage with Tail Glow. As for priority, you should either run Extreme Speed alone over Head Charge, or you should run FakeSpeed which is the standard set. As for Head Charge, I like the idea, but it's more normally seen on Kyurem-Black.

Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Head Charge
- Sunsteel Strike

This is what I've tried, although the problem is that you're running three Ice moves. You can get rid of Fake Out for more coverage like Precipice Blades. This set is more specialized to my team which is why it does not have Ground-type coverage.

Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Imprison
- Power Trip
I really don't know how to say this without sounding somewhat rude, but Zweilous has absolutely no place in Balanced Hackmons and you just can't get any use out of it. The Pokemon itself is horrible. It's an NFE without much actual use. Gyarados and Yveltal can have similar bulk even with Eviolite factored in so they have a free item slot. They hit harder right off the bat. Most importantly, they can actually serve a niche for the team.

I really must put emphasis on this:

Setup sweepers are more effective if they can be equally dangerous in less turns.

If you have to take a few turns to use Iron Defense, a few turns to use Amnesia, a turn to use Imprison, then you have a good base power of Power Trip, you're forgetting exactly why Power Trip is so threatening, or why setup sweepers in general are threatening. With Shell Smash, right off the bat you are instantly more threatening to teams. It takes 1 turn to be a threat with Shell Smash compared to the half a dozen or so turns that Iron Defense and Amnesia take. You might ask why this matters, and the reason is that Amnesia and Iron Defense users are more susceptible to Spectral Thief. Zweilous is also 4x weak to Fairy and is massively threatened by anything carrying Fairy-type coverage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Fleur Cannon vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 176-208 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's not impressive. At all. Considering your Zweilous set also doesn't have recovery moves, it just dies considering that it's more than likely heavily damaged should it get to +6 in a certain stat. U-turn actually has a good chance of putting Zweilous into knockout range for plenty of mons.

Simply put, please stop using Iron Defense and Amnesia. Seriously. They aren't useful, viable, or worthwhile in any sort of way whatsoever and no set you theorymon will make them work on any set. Spectral Thief is just so common that it's not worthwhile. Before you mention it, no, Normal-types aren't viable with them either despite their immunity to Spectral Thief. A lot of stuff carries Haze too. The reason Shell Smash and Tail Glow are good is because of the fact that they only take one turn and are far less susceptible to Spectral Thief and Haze.

I hope I didn't upset you at all, I'm just trying to help you improve as I genuinely feel like that these sets are very misguided.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Amnesia
- Power Trip
- Photon Geyser
Completely outclassed by BellyBurden Dusk Mane. Here, check out this set:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- Precipice Blades / Power Trip

ElMustacho helped me make a different set some time ago that may be of interest to you.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Sunsteel Strike
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

This set is a bit more reliable, but the first set is much better against Imposter. If you can get consistent chip on Imposter Chansey via hazards and the like, this second set may be better for you.

Check out this link for viable sets.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...Uht9rKOOMDbGvDvu8g5vHcA5W7gXlgMaNftz6xuCl/pub

This is an official link from the Central Resources page made and maintained by E4 Flint and the BHC. Me and quite a few others are actively aiming to contribute to the Smogon Dex. I just made a Dialga analysis that you can view on the Smogon Dex and I'll be doing Dusk Mane soon, I figured you'd be interested considering that you had just made a Dusk Mane set.

Anyways, if you have any questions, by all means please do ask them. Don't be afraid to share your sets, either. All I aim to do is help the community, particularly newer players, get into Balanced Hackmons.
 
Nitpick #2: Cotton Guard outclasses Iron Defense. Except in name, Iron Defense sounds cooler.


More serious, Storm Eagle's more or less right in that quicker set-up is generally better than slower set-up. There are some exceptions, such as the classic Quiver Dance Pogre set, but these sets require a bit of scouting and removal of certain checks in order to do their job and function more as a win condition rather than a "let's start blowing crap up in two turns" type of sweeper. Granted, the latter can be a wincon too, but they're usually less winconny and more for general hulk smashing purposes since they're prone to losing to Sashes, bad acc rolls, priority, and other junk depending on the set.

Yes it's not that binary and there's a whole spectrum between pure wincon set-up and YOLO set-up, but I don't feel like trying to categorize every variant of set-up sweeper.



Meanwhile, if we're sharing dumb aggressive sets, here's one of mine.

Solgaleo @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Stored Power
- Thousand Waves
- Shell Smash
- Taunt

Necrozma does more damage, but who cares, Solgaleo is more silly and has a surprise factor since people usually expect Regenvest and stuff like that. Taunt stops Haze/Destiny Bond and forces most users to only be able to U-Turn out while you set-up again or smack them. The given coverage does tons of damage, adds a trapping element for kicks and giggles, and can be Imposterproofed by almost any Murkrow set. ...or you can use Yveltal if you actually want something viable for Improof. Other mons can work too, like Unaware Gyarados, but are less free to choose their set.
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey so I’m actually glad we had the opportunity to talk about other sets, because I found it particularly interesting that:

252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 434-512 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 384-454 (96.4 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Zweilous: 380-450 (109.1 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 456-536 (100.4 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 504-596 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 676-804 (167.3 - 199%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... if you, for some odd reason, decided to make a team of the last 6 sets posted in this thread, it would easily get swept by a simple Contrary MMX with Superpower, V-Create, and some odd coverage move (Fleur or Ice Hammer, your pick). For this reason, I think we should talk a bit about Contrary. I’m not entirely convinced that it is broken yet, but after some more consideration, I think we should be open to the possibility of a suspect. Of course, that kind of discussion belongs in the suspect thread, not this one, so instead of discussing the suspect, I'd like to mention a cool Contrary combo I've been using lately.



Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- V-create
- Ice Hammer
- Baton Pass


Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Core Enforcer
- Strength Sap
- Baton Pass

Typically what you want in secondary receivers are Pokemon that can beat setup checks.


Slaking @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Shift Gear

Slaking is one of the best receivers in my opinion, as Poison Heal helps it shrug off attacks easily when boosted from V-Create. I chose Slaking here partly because of the previous discussion about whether it's useful or not (hint: it is) but also because the higher defense is particularly important in this case to reduce susceptibility to -ate, which MMX is weak to. It's self-imposterproof (even more so than Regigigas is), and also immune to Spectral Thief, so it goes well with MMX as a wallbreaker. The last slot is typically Shift Gear so it's not useless alone, but you can also use Baton Pass to keep up the chain, or slap on Infestation to beat Shedinja.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter
- Spectral Thief
- Shedinja (if Infestation is used)


Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Secret Sword

(To be used with Psycho Boost on MMX instead of Ice Hammer) Gengar-Mega is another powerful receiver. It is one of the best Mold Breaker sweepers in the meta, is self imposterproof, and can also stand as an effective sweeper on its own. Defense boosts let you run Sludge Wave, which is slightly more risky, but improves overall power tremendously.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter
- Shedinja
- Unaware (with enough boosts. +2 OHKOs Mega Audino, Giratina, and even Gyarados and Chansey, and 2HKOs Yveltal and POgre)


Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Power Trip
- Close Combat

Deo-A works too as a hyper offensive option to beat Prankster and -ate. It, too, is incredibly powerful, and with Focus Sash, it Imposter-proofs itself. There's no real reason why this Deo-A works better with Contrary rather than without, and predictions are necessary to Baton Pass it in safely, but once it's in it works wonders. This is a physical attacking sweeper to receive Superpower boosts from MMX, but of course if you choose to use MMY as your Contrary passer, you can opt for Moongeist + Stored Power.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter (if Sash preserved)
- Shedinja
- Prankster
- Priority
- Unaware (with Photon Geyser, though unreliable because most unaware Pokemon can tank it anyway)

... and there are many more, in particular Dark-type Poison Heal.


I think Baton Pass is really undervalued as a pivoting move, especially now that Spectral Thief is so darn good. I know a lot of people typically play Contrary as a sweeper, but there's a lot of utility to be gained playing it as a wallbreaker as well, especially because it's fairly easy to kick off the initial snowball as MMX forces switches, but not always as easy to keep going, especially early game, as people tend to overprepare for it. Baton Pass helps fix this issue as it lets you keep up the offensive pressure without fearing losing the boosts or their originator. It also lets you pivot into other sweepers that are better equipped at handling opposing walls.

I use Unaware Tina with this to Imposter-proof MMX itself. It does a pretty good job of walling this MMX set, barely being 3HKOd by Ice Hammer, and with Spectral Thief, can steal the boosts and pass them to someone else. BP on the MMX makes you slightly more susceptible to being beaten by your own strategy from Imposter, but I've found that most teams aren't properly equipped with the right sweepers to actually take advantage of those boosts, and even when they do, they typically can't beat Tina. For added security you can definitely add Prankster Haze or something like that, but I find it to be fairly unnecessary.

The strongest part about Contrary BP (and Contrary in general) is that it's a low-risk, high-reward strategy that is both powerful and durable. I mean, there's a bit of hype going around about SF LO MMY lately, but Contrary easily matches its power and can stack boosts on top of that. With the right preparation, you can build powerful setups that are only securely countered by Prankster Haze, which itself is quite passive, and doesn't really threaten you much.
 
I like the idea, the problem is I think this set tries to accomplish three things at once. It tries to be a setup sweeper, a mon with priority, and a mon with strong coverage. If you want a good physical Mega Ray setup set, there's DazzleSmash. Dazzling goes well with Shell Smash. Otherwise, the best setup Mega Ray sets are Special, more specifically Triage with Tail Glow. As for priority, you should either run Extreme Speed alone over Head Charge, or you should run FakeSpeed which is the standard set. As for Head Charge, I like the idea, but it's more normally seen on Kyurem-Black.

Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Head Charge
- Sunsteel Strike

This is what I've tried, although the problem is that you're running three Ice moves. You can get rid of Fake Out for more coverage like Precipice Blades. This set is more specialized to my team which is why it does not have Ground-type coverage.



I really don't know how to say this without sounding somewhat rude, but Zweilous has absolutely no place in Balanced Hackmons and you just can't get any use out of it. The Pokemon itself is horrible. It's an NFE without much actual use. Gyarados and Yveltal can have similar bulk even with Eviolite factored in so they have a free item slot. They hit harder right off the bat. Most importantly, they can actually serve a niche for the team.

I really must put emphasis on this:

Setup sweepers are more effective if they can be equally dangerous in less turns.

If you have to take a few turns to use Iron Defense, a few turns to use Amnesia, a turn to use Imprison, then you have a good base power of Power Trip, you're forgetting exactly why Power Trip is so threatening, or why setup sweepers in general are threatening. With Shell Smash, right off the bat you are instantly more threatening to teams. It takes 1 turn to be a threat with Shell Smash compared to the half a dozen or so turns that Iron Defense and Amnesia take. You might ask why this matters, and the reason is that Amnesia and Iron Defense users are more susceptible to Spectral Thief. Zweilous is also 4x weak to Fairy and is massively threatened by anything carrying Fairy-type coverage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Fleur Cannon vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 176-208 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's not impressive. At all. Considering your Zweilous set also doesn't have recovery moves, it just dies considering that it's more than likely heavily damaged should it get to +6 in a certain stat. U-turn actually has a good chance of putting Zweilous into knockout range for plenty of mons.

Simply put, please stop using Iron Defense and Amnesia. Seriously. They aren't useful, viable, or worthwhile in any sort of way whatsoever and no set you theorymon will make them work on any set. Spectral Thief is just so common that it's not worthwhile. Before you mention it, no, Normal-types aren't viable with them either despite their immunity to Spectral Thief. A lot of stuff carries Haze too. The reason Shell Smash and Tail Glow are good is because of the fact that they only take one turn and are far less susceptible to Spectral Thief and Haze.

I hope I didn't upset you at all, I'm just trying to help you improve as I genuinely feel like that these sets are very misguided.



Completely outclassed by BellyBurden Dusk Mane. Here, check out this set:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- Precipice Blades / Power Trip

ElMustacho helped me make a different set some time ago that may be of interest to you.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Sunsteel Strike
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

This set is a bit more reliable, but the first set is much better against Imposter. If you can get consistent chip on Imposter Chansey via hazards and the like, this second set may be better for you.

Check out this link for viable sets.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...Uht9rKOOMDbGvDvu8g5vHcA5W7gXlgMaNftz6xuCl/pub

This is an official link from the Central Resources page made and maintained by E4 Flint and the BHC. Me and quite a few others are actively aiming to contribute to the Smogon Dex. I just made a Dialga analysis that you can view on the Smogon Dex and I'll be doing Dusk Mane soon, I figured you'd be interested considering that you had just made a Dusk Mane set.

Anyways, if you have any questions, by all means please do ask them. Don't be afraid to share your sets, either. All I aim to do is help the community, particularly newer players, get into Balanced Hackmons.
i was wondering when someone is gonna come up with a belly drum set, sice i have never actually seen this in battle, but it looses to imposter even more, and is also weak to haze a lot, since dusk mane dosen't have prankster immunity, the set would just be crashed by giratina. (maybe EQ one-hits imposter blissey, i' not sure, but blisseys EQ straight up KOs
 
you missed the unburden part

and as an unimportant aside dark types aren't immune to haze as I doesn't target

yes belly drummers are especially weak to haze but you just don't throw them into battle the first chance you get, it's why most good teams with drummers have other set up that scouts for it and is less bothered by haze or outright beats it (think of triage mega ray)

just a question though do you actually play this metagame competitively at all
 

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