BH Balanced Hackmons

I've completely redesigned the set

Now its a Hoopa

Hoopa-Unbound @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Ice Beam
phy
The speed boost gives me extra speed (I need it) and more stats for Stored power on the Contrary you could do physical t-tar set with Power Trip havent tested it tho.
 
I've completely redesigned the set

Now its a Hoopa

Hoopa-Unbound @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Ice Beam
phy
The speed boost gives me extra speed (I need it) and more stats for Stored power on the Contrary you could do physical t-tar set with Power Trip havent tested it tho.
This could be improved with some tweaks. Hoopa can actually run a sash simple smash set to a much higher degree of effectiveness, since it has STAB on both power trip and stored power, you can have a mixed set that isn’t walled by Dark Types-

Hoopa-Unbound @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple/Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stored Power
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam/Ice Hammer/ Filler

This set does need to be coupled with very reliable hazard control, or a prankster user, but otherwise does very well. Dazzling is also an option if you would prefer not to get abused by priority.
Your set could work for imposterproofing/wanting to innovate (Unaware Goggles with really high Def), but IMHO is outclassed by this.
 
This could be improved with some tweaks. Hoopa can actually run a sash simple smash set to a much higher degree of effectiveness, since it has STAB on both power trip and stored power, you can have a mixed set that isn’t walled by Dark Types-

Hoopa-Unbound @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple/Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stored Power
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Ice Beam/Ice Hammer/ Filler

This set does need to be coupled with very reliable hazard control, or a prankster user, but otherwise does very well. Dazzling is also an option if you would prefer not to get abused by priority.
Your set could work for imposterproofing/wanting to innovate (Unaware Goggles with really high Def), but IMHO is outclassed by this.
Eh Hoopas so so speed works for it so you dont get wrecked by mons after you go for the smash. Sash does provided an extra line of defense from mons like MMY who commonly kill it turn 1... Of course mons like gira, audi and, most Zy sets will Counter very easily if they tank the hit. Other than that main concern and the fact that my Def and SpD go to hell I like it!

Edit: Also do you think it might benefit from decreased speed?
 

Ren

fuck it if i cant have him
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Let's get some discussion going on here.

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Chansey            |   37 |  66.07% |  56.76% |
| 2    | Mewtwo             |   32 |  57.14% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Rayquaza           |   23 |  41.07% |  56.52% |
| 3    | Giratina           |   23 |  41.07% |  52.17% |
| 5    | Gengar             |   17 |  30.36% |  41.18% |
| 6    | Zygarde-Complete   |   15 |  26.79% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Registeel          |   13 |  23.21% |  53.85% |
| 7    | Tyranitar          |   13 |  23.21% |  23.08% |
| 9    | Yveltal            |   12 |  21.43% |  58.33% |
| 9    | Aegislash          |   12 |  21.43% |  58.33% |
| 9    | Diancie            |   12 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 12   | Kyogre             |   11 |  19.64% |  54.55% |
| 13   | Dialga             |    9 |  16.07% |  55.56% |
| 14   | Celesteela         |    8 |  14.29% |  37.50% |
| -    | Arceus-*           |    8 |  14.29% |  37.50% |
| 15   | Xerneas            |    7 |  12.50% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Shedinja           |    7 |  12.50% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Arceus-Psychic     |    7 |  12.50% |  28.57% |
| 18   | Kartana            |    6 |  10.71% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Audino             |    6 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Groudon            |    5 |   8.93% |  60.00% |
| 21   | Sableye            |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Cresselia          |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Ho-Oh              |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Magearna           |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Slowbro            |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Ferrothorn         |    3 |   5.36% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Pheromosa          |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Blissey            |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Beedrill           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Kyurem-Black       |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Garchomp           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Swampert           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Blaziken           |    2 |   3.57% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Charizard          |    2 |   3.57% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Regigigas          |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Pikachu-Original   |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Solgaleo           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Arceus-Grass       |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Guzzlord           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Gyarados           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Tapu Fini          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Metagross          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Doublade           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Darmanitan-Zen     |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Jellicent          |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Toxapex            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Heatran            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
These are the OMPL usage stats. Pokemon with a 100% winrate are...
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 30   | Beedrill           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Kyurem-Black       |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Garchomp           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Swampert           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Solgaleo           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Arceus-Grass       |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Guzzlord           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Gyarados           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Tapu Fini          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Metagross          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Doublade           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
And Pokemon with a 0% winrate are...
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 30   | Regigigas          |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Pikachu-Original   |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Darmanitan-Zen     |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Jellicent          |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Toxapex            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Heatran            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
I find it really interesting that stuff like Regigigas has a 0% winrate while stuff like Tapu Fini and Doublade have a 100% winrate. I guess it goes to show how different the tournament metagame is from the ladder metagame, because it seems their success has reversed?

As expected, Chansey has a spectacularly high amount of usage. Mewtwo isn't too far behind, the exact 50% winrate is really interesting though for a Pokemon with such a high amount of usage. Tyranitar also has a surprisingly low winrate, at only 23.08%, despite being one of the more viable Pokemon. Diancie has a 33.33% winrate, too, but it's A+ on the VR. Did the inclusion of baby Diancie affect it at all, or is it just not a good idea to bring Diancie to tours where users prep for it? What happened, really?

I'd like to see other thoughts on this.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I find it really interesting that stuff like Regigigas has a 0% winrate while stuff like Tapu Fini and Doublade have a 100% winrate.
It's also probably important to note these mons weren't used a lot. Regigigas only went 0/2 while the more niche mons both went 1/1. Gigas could have had a bad matchup or was more prepared for in the tour like you mention with Diancie. It's almost more interesting that it was used as little as it was.

Meanwhile most people usually don't prepare for Fini or Doublade, making them potentially harder to deal with. Especially when looking at these stats. The most used thing that would scare Fini without resorting to coverage is Kartana (Beedrill hardly runs poison stab with TC). Doublade would be scared of more things, like Gengar, Ttar, and Yveltal, but who knows if they were used in the one battle Doublade had.
 
It's also worth noting that win rate can be a little mis-leading for any of the lower usage Pokemon. After all, any Pokemon that find themselves in a battle where they're being used by both teams at the same time is absolutely guaranteed to be unable to have anywhere near a 100% win rate. Additionally, Pokemon used heavily will trend closer to 50% because it's more likely both teams will have one in a given match.

Mewtwo-X and Mewtwo-Y are also listed together, which is pretty misleading since they don't play the same. Similar, but not the same.
 

Guard

حرروا فلسطين
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OMPL Champion
I am a big fan of Regigigas and Xerneas in BH because they both defeat their own Imposter and provide a lot of defensive value coupled with lethal offensive force. They're immune to Spectral Thief and Core Enforcer, respectively, which are common stops to Poison Heal sweepers. But I've always hesitated to use both of them since they require the same ability and that way I could be missing a cruicial abilityslot. However, I decided to give it a go lately and I've had enormous success with it. In one day, I've raised from 1000 to 1600 on ladder and am currently in the top 5 (my PS name is Guardsweeper). So I thought it'd be nice to share the team with you guys.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- V-create

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up
- Metal Burst

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Knock Off

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Pursuit
- Destiny Bond

Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Magma Storm

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Boomburst
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
One issue I see here is that Rayquaza and Xerneas can be trapped and killed by Anchor Shot + Entrainment on a Flash Fire Steel. Said FF Steel can also handle Regigigas depending on how the sleep turns go. Three of your offensive mons struggling with one wall could lead to trouble. Switching your Fire coverage to Ground on Ray or Xern could help you get around this, though.

Normgar is threatening as always but also handled by Unaware Yveltal, Magic Bounce Dark types, or MMY. These Dark types are fairly common and MMY is very common and these all give this Gengar issues and don't let it get set up.

Two Poison Heal is nice, but you have to make sure you are putting on the pressure right away so you can guarantee a safe switch in to activate your orbs. You have no slow pivots outside of base form Chansey (which will hardly happen), so there is no telling when a Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, Glare, etc is coming at your PH mon when it switches in. Losing an orb or gaining a non poison status can cripple your offensive core for the battle. Also, stall teams with Misty Surge and utility knock off could lead to issues.

And I know it is HO, but having no hazard clearing on your end could be detrimental. Deo-S out speeds Aero and can Taunt it, set up rocks and webs or whatever and you'll have to deal with that for the rest of the battle.

That being said, I've seen you beat a good number of people with this team and it does seem capable of dealing a lot of damage.
 

Guard

حرروا فلسطين
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OMPL Champion
One issue I see here is that Rayquaza and Xerneas can be trapped and killed by Anchor Shot + Entrainment on a Flash Fire Steel. Said FF Steel can also handle Regigigas depending on how the sleep turns go. Three of your offensive mons struggling with one wall could lead to trouble. Switching your Fire coverage to Ground on Ray or Xern could help you get around this, though.

Normgar is threatening as always but also handled by Unaware Yveltal, Magic Bounce Dark types, or MMY. These Dark types are fairly common and MMY is very common and these all give this Gengar issues and don't let it get set up.

Two Poison Heal is nice, but you have to make sure you are putting on the pressure right away so you can guarantee a safe switch in to activate your orbs. You have no slow pivots outside of base form Chansey (which will hardly happen), so there is no telling when a Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, Glare, etc is coming at your PH mon when it switches in. Losing an orb or gaining a non poison status can cripple your offensive core for the battle. Also, stall teams with Misty Surge and utility knock off could lead to issues.

And I know it is HO, but having no hazard clearing on your end could be detrimental. Deo-S out speeds Aero and can Taunt it, set up rocks and webs or whatever and you'll have to deal with that for the rest of the battle.

That being said, I've seen you beat a good number of people with this team and it does seem capable of dealing a lot of damage.
Everything you said is absolutely true; I've indeed had problems with all of the aforementioned. However, what I do want to note is that,usually, losing a mon doesn't really matter that much because of the self-sustainable nature of this team (e.g. 3 of my mons being able to beat their imposter). Whenever a mon dies, the trick is to pressure the opposing team with another mon through the means of either raw power or Spore/Entrainment + Setup.

Flash Fire (or Comatose Dialga, though very uncommon) + Anchor Shot Steel Types to bother me a lot but at the end of the day, I find my self outpressuring them with either Gigas and its Spore or obviosly Mega Gengar. Also, they tend to be passive so I just capitalize on that.

Speaking of Gengar's checks in Mewtwo Y and Yveltal (and other dark types in general), both are forced out by Chansey, 1v1'nd by both Gigas and Xern and get destroyed by Ray. Xerneas in particular really provides a lot of support by taking on Core Enforcers, Zygardes and Tinas for Gigas and Dark- types for Gengar.

As for Toxic Orb activation, scouting with Chansey is enough and if that doesn't work, it's not the end of the world, since I've got one heck of a pressuring team to compensate for.

Hazard Removal is always appreciated and although I don't have a remover, Aerodactyl's Taunt prevents them (and btw Deo-S is one pice of shit tbh) and I've always got Chansey to copy opposing Hazard removers.

Anyway, I really appreciated your comment.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
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252 SpA Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lugia: 113-134 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Let me fix the calc for you:
252 SpA Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lugia: 213-252 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Prankster Lugia isn't doing much here. Topsy-Turvy and Toxic Thread are walled by Magic Bounce, Dark types (which own Lugia anyway), and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty. Most set up mons are commonly one or more of the three things I just listed or they out prioritize Lugia (like Triage Ray).
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lugia: 316-372 (75.9 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also, Contrary MMX isn't too afraid of this Lugia when using V-Create. Lugia can poison it and force it out, but it can't do any damage to take advantage of the topsy turvy'd stats.
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Lugia: 172-203 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Lastly, Timid is not worth running on a set where all moves are already +1 priority and you have no attacks. It would be better to run a defense boosting nature.

This set would probably do what you are looking for a little better.
Lugia @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- U-turn / Parting Shot
- Worry Seed / Toxic

Haze is more consistent than Topsy-Turvy and still works again Bounce, Darks, and Dazzling. U-Turn or Parting Shot is there so Lugia can pick up some momentum for the team. Worry Seed gets rid of things like Contrary or Poison Heal or you can use Toxic to status stall mons that aren't steel type, magic bounce, comatose, or poison heal (good luck finding one of those).
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
Let's get some discussion going on here.

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Chansey            |   37 |  66.07% |  56.76% |
| 2    | Mewtwo             |   32 |  57.14% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Rayquaza           |   23 |  41.07% |  56.52% |
| 3    | Giratina           |   23 |  41.07% |  52.17% |
| 5    | Gengar             |   17 |  30.36% |  41.18% |
| 6    | Zygarde-Complete   |   15 |  26.79% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Registeel          |   13 |  23.21% |  53.85% |
| 7    | Tyranitar          |   13 |  23.21% |  23.08% |
| 9    | Yveltal            |   12 |  21.43% |  58.33% |
| 9    | Aegislash          |   12 |  21.43% |  58.33% |
| 9    | Diancie            |   12 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 12   | Kyogre             |   11 |  19.64% |  54.55% |
| 13   | Dialga             |    9 |  16.07% |  55.56% |
| 14   | Celesteela         |    8 |  14.29% |  37.50% |
| -    | Arceus-*           |    8 |  14.29% |  37.50% |
| 15   | Xerneas            |    7 |  12.50% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Shedinja           |    7 |  12.50% |  57.14% |
| 15   | Arceus-Psychic     |    7 |  12.50% |  28.57% |
| 18   | Kartana            |    6 |  10.71% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Audino             |    6 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Groudon            |    5 |   8.93% |  60.00% |
| 21   | Sableye            |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Cresselia          |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Ho-Oh              |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Magearna           |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Slowbro            |    4 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Ferrothorn         |    3 |   5.36% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Pheromosa          |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Blissey            |    3 |   5.36% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Beedrill           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Kyurem-Black       |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Garchomp           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Swampert           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Blaziken           |    2 |   3.57% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Charizard          |    2 |   3.57% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Regigigas          |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Pikachu-Original   |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Solgaleo           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Arceus-Grass       |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Guzzlord           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Gyarados           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Tapu Fini          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Metagross          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Doublade           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Darmanitan-Zen     |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Jellicent          |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Toxapex            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Heatran            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
These are the OMPL usage stats. Pokemon with a 100% winrate are...
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 30   | Beedrill           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Kyurem-Black       |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Garchomp           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 30   | Swampert           |    2 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Solgaleo           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Arceus-Grass       |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Guzzlord           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Gyarados           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Tapu Fini          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Metagross          |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Doublade           |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   1.79% | 100.00% |
And Pokemon with a 0% winrate are...
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 30   | Regigigas          |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Pikachu-Original   |    2 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Darmanitan-Zen     |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Jellicent          |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Toxapex            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Heatran            |    1 |   1.79% |   0.00% |
I find it really interesting that stuff like Regigigas has a 0% winrate while stuff like Tapu Fini and Doublade have a 100% winrate. I guess it goes to show how different the tournament metagame is from the ladder metagame, because it seems their success has reversed?

As expected, Chansey has a spectacularly high amount of usage. Mewtwo isn't too far behind, the exact 50% winrate is really interesting though for a Pokemon with such a high amount of usage. Tyranitar also has a surprisingly low winrate, at only 23.08%, despite being one of the more viable Pokemon. Diancie has a 33.33% winrate, too, but it's A+ on the VR. Did the inclusion of baby Diancie affect it at all, or is it just not a good idea to bring Diancie to tours where users prep for it? What happened, really?

I'd like to see other thoughts on this.
ok so i tried separating mmx and mmy by hand and i'm pretty sure i messed something up but the stats should be approximately accurate.

mmx had 23 uses/11 wins, mmy had 14 uses/7 wins.

mmx and mmy both had about a 50% winrate individually.

something interesting to me was that mmx was used significantly more than mmy, like around 50% more. this is probably partially thanks to disciple_1 and his double mmx squad, but even without that mmx still has higher usage.

also i rly hope the term "baby diancie" actually catches on
 
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Pressure Stall?

you die now (Zygarde-Complete) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Wish
- Anchor Shot
- Substitute

Anchor Shot makes sure they cant switch out, and has 32 PP
Spiky Shield and Wish are Obvious
Substitute for Toxic/Taunt
 
Pressure Stall?

you die now (Zygarde-Complete) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Wish
- Anchor Shot
- Substitute

Anchor Shot makes sure they cant switch out, and has 32 PP
Spiky Shield and Wish are Obvious
Substitute for Toxic/Taunt
If you're going to trap and pp stall you might as well either a) run an ability that lets you stay in without dying and lets you fill other roles (such as fur coat or unaware for example) or b) run imprison + transform (since your whole moveset is devoted to this anyway) and kill them much more quickly anyway.

Pressure stall is best used with hazards and/or defog to win the hazard war and on shedinja teams to stall out the low pp "moldbreaker moves" which lets shed go out and enjoy its gentle stroll through their team. Something that resists/is neutral to these moves would be best.

MAMP is one of the people to actually use this a significant amount and suggested this set (I guessed the item, maybe wants leftovers):

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
- Defog
- Baneful Bunker
 
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MAMP

MAMP!
If you're going to trap and pp stall you might as well either a) run an ability that lets you stay in without dying and lets you fill other roles (such as fur coat or unaware for example) or b) run imprison + transform (since your whole moveset is devoted to this anyway) and kill them much more quickly anyway.

Pressure stall is best used with hazards and/or defog to win the hazard war and on shedinja teams to stall out the low pp "moldbreaker moves" which lets shed go out and enjoy its gentle stroll through their team. Something that resists/is neutral to these moves would be best.

MAMP is one of the people to actually use this a significant amount and suggested this set (I guessed the item, maybe wants leftovers):

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
- Destiny Bond
- Baneful Bunker
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
- Baneful Bunker

set has a small niche on shedinja stall bc you can pp stall moongeist/sunsteel/geyser and with defog you always win the hazard war against sr setters that can't hurt registeel. a lot of coverage moves that ppl run to hit steels also have very low pp (v-create, cc, blue flare, magma storm) so you can stall them out with good predicts. baneful bunker is a super underrated move in general, getting to poison random fat mons as they try to u-turn or punishing mons trying to bop you with cc or v-create is so good, and the value in getting to scout their coverage pretty freely is always valuable. not sure why you'd run dbond on this set
 
I had a whole team revolving around PP stall, more centered on the use of Spite. It was okay, probably could have been better if I put more time into it, I kinda made it on a whim and didn't put too much effort into it. It's a generation out of date, so I'm handing it out as mostly a referential thing. But if you want a starting point to adapt and are willing to take the risks of starting with something old, here you go. It needs trapping or a strong hazard game for sure. But don't update the meme names, the classics are the best.



Overlord (Arceus-Flying) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Order
- Cosmic Power
- Spite
- Recycle

Basically an infinite stall without triggering endless battle clause, since it'll end the battle sooner or later. Damage over spite would be more efficient, but less funny.

Supply Depot (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Spite
- Torment
- King's Shield

Irritating staller and surprisingly hard to kill due to Torment. Most Pokemon only have one way to hit Giratina, so every odd turn is basically a free heal opportunity. Torment is fun, seriously.

Vespene Gas (Xerneas) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grudge
- Soft-Boiled
- Spite
- Encore

Prankster Grudge is flippin' hilarious and lets you Imposter-counter sweep on things that would otherwise 50/50 or normally beat Imposter. Otherwise, mostly just a jerk.

Minerals (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Fairly standard Registeel set of the time. Outdated currently.

Pylon (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Final Gambit
- Skill Swap
- Recover

Standard Imposter. Replace Fakeout though if you use this team, since Illusion isn't a thing anymore.

Additional Pylon (Chansey) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Final Gambit
- Roost

Anti-anti-Imposter Imposter for some variations. Use Grudge on Judgement for maximum lulz as you sweep them back with their "Imposter-proof sweeper." Most teams aren't prepared to handle a functional Judgement. You can sub out other plates, such as Earth Plate, depending on what you want to do. Gengar was by far the most common back then.
 
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I had a whole team revolving around PP stall, more centered on the use of Spite. It was okay, probably could have been better if I put more time into it, I kinda made it on a whim and didn't put too much effort into it. It's a generation out of date, so I'm handing it out as mostly a referential thing. But if you want a starting point to adapt and are willing to take the risks of starting with something old, here you go. It needs trapping or a strong hazard game for sure. But don't update the meme names, the classics are the best.



Overlord (Arceus-Flying) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Order
- Cosmic Power
- Spite
- Recycle

Basically an infinite stall without triggering endless battle clause, since it'll end the battle sooner or later. Damage over spite would be more efficient, but less funny.

Supply Depot (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Spite
- Torment
- King's Shield

Irritating staller and surprisingly hard to kill due to Torment. Most Pokemon only have one way to hit Giratina, so every odd turn is basically a free heal opportunity. Torment is fun, seriously.

Vespene Gas (Xerneas) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grudge
- Soft-Boiled
- Spite
- Encore

Prankster Grudge is flippin' hilarious and lets you Imposter-counter sweep on things that would otherwise 50/50 or normally beat Imposter. Otherwise, mostly just a jerk.

Minerals (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Fairly standard Registeel set of the time. Outdated currently.

Pylon (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Final Gambit
- Skill Swap
- Recover

Standard Imposter.

Additional Pylon (Chansey) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Final Gambit
- Roost

Anti-anti-Imposter Imposter for some variations. Use Grudge on Judgement for maximum lulz as you sweep them back with their "Imposter-proof sweeper." Most teams aren't prepared to handle a functional Judgement. You can sub out other plates, such as Earth Plate, depending on what you want to do. Gengar was by far the most common back then.
Just a little reminder that Fake Out on Imposter is now a bad idea, since there's no Illusion to break.
 
Some stuff I've been using a fair bit:

Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Gyro Ball
- Spectral Thief/Clear Smog/Topsy-Turvy
- Slack Off
This set is tailor made to wall almost anything you can throw at it except boosted Deoxys formes, which run rampant in the metagame due to their almost endless possibilities, and Pokemon with a very high amount of boosts. Cosmic Power is to increase its walling potential in conjunction with Fur Coat, reaching a whopping 4476 Defense (a feat only Fur Coat M-Steelix and Shuckle can also attest to, but M-Steelix has worse Attack and Speed, and Shuckle has low HP) and 1036 Special Defense at maximum buffs. There is always the possibility of some errant Deoxys-S or the like hitting you with a Spectral Thief, but that's what your own Spectral Thief is for, to grab the boosts back. Alternatively, you can slap them with a Clear Smog or Topsy-Turvy and punish them for stealing your boosts. Gyro Ball is for making use of that great Attack and low Speed to chip away at the opponent's health. Slack Off restores HP in case the opponent's dealing a bit too much scratch damage(which isn't likely, taking that potentially huge Defense into consideration, you'll be on the receiving end of less than 1% of your HP on average). As a bonus, it's immune to Toxic, but who uses that in BH, am I right?


Zygarde-Complete @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover
- Thousand Arrows
This set, on the other hand, is made for more mixed purposes, with more emphasis on defense. Like with Aggron, Cosmic Power is to buff up your defenses and increase survivability against some errant Ice Beam or what have you. Thousand Arrows is for hitting those pesky Steel types and is Zygarde's go to move here. Clear Smog and Recover serve the same purpose as with Aggron.


Giratina-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Entrainment
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Haze
This set is for walling under safe setup conditions. Entrainment in conjunction with Normalize is to completely nullify the attacks of the current Pokemon, a strategy used commonly in the tier by Mega Gengar. When the opponent switches out, you will have safely stockpiled enough so that when they hit you, it won't do that much, and when they chip at your health enough, you can safely Swallow, afflict them with Normalize, and restart the cycle. Now, Spectral Thief may seem like a problem here, as when an opponent steals your buffs and you Swallow, you still end up with 3 Defense and Special Defense debuffs. But this is what Haze is for, as it deletes your negative stat changes and renders the opponent's fancy new defensive buffs moot.



(Lunala) (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Psychic
- Moongeist Beam
This set is for a good old rampage through the opposing team. You slap whatever's in front with a Spore, pull off one Tail Glow and carnage ensues. Lunala has great speed and Psychic + Ghost has great coverage. As a bonus, if something manages to bring you down to pinch HP, you can go faster due to that Salac Berry and Simple.


(Solgaleo) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
This set is the reverse of the Lunala set. You pull off a Simple-boosted Dragon Dance or two, then let em have it.


Blissey @ Quick Claw/Leppa Berry
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Tackle
- Disarming Voice
- Diamond Storm
- Steam Eruption
What else is there to say about this one, really? You turn into the opponent and copy their stats and buffs, flip their strategy on its head, and become unkillable due to your staggering HP. The Quick Claw is to guarantee you move faster than the copied foe at least some of the time and murder them with their own buffs. The moves are just placeholders, as you copy the foe's moves with Imposter. The Leppa Berry is to give you 25 PP rather than 20.
 
Some stuff I've been using a fair bit:

Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Gyro Ball
- Spectral Thief/Clear Smog/Topsy-Turvy
- Slack Off
This set is tailor made to wall almost anything you can throw at it except boosted Deoxys formes, which run rampant in the metagame due to their almost endless possibilities, and Pokemon with a very high amount of boosts. Cosmic Power is to increase its walling potential in conjunction with Fur Coat, reaching a whopping 4476 Defense (a feat only Fur Coat M-Steelix and Shuckle can also attest to, but M-Steelix has worse Attack and Speed, and Shuckle has low HP) and 1036 Special Defense at maximum buffs. There is always the possibility of some errant Deoxys-S or the like hitting you with a Spectral Thief, but that's what your own Spectral Thief is for, to grab the boosts back. Alternatively, you can slap them with a Clear Smog or Topsy-Turvy and punish them for stealing your boosts. Gyro Ball is for making use of that great Attack and low Speed to chip away at the opponent's health. Slack Off restores HP in case the opponent's dealing a bit too much scratch damage(which isn't likely, taking that potentially huge Defense into consideration, you'll be on the receiving end of less than 1% of your HP on average). As a bonus, it's immune to Toxic, but who uses that in BH, am I right?


Zygarde-Complete @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover
- Thousand Arrows
This set, on the other hand, is made for more mixed purposes, with more emphasis on defense. Like with Aggron, Cosmic Power is to buff up your defenses and increase survivability against some errant Ice Beam or what have you. Thousand Arrows is for hitting those pesky Steel types and is Zygarde's go to move here. Clear Smog and Recover serve the same purpose as with Aggron.


Giratina-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Entrainment
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Haze
This set is for walling under safe setup conditions. Entrainment in conjunction with Normalize is to completely nullify the attacks of the current Pokemon, a strategy used commonly in the tier by Mega Gengar. When the opponent switches out, you will have safely stockpiled enough so that when they hit you, it won't do that much, and when they chip at your health enough, you can safely Swallow, afflict them with Normalize, and restart the cycle. Now, Spectral Thief may seem like a problem here, as when an opponent steals your buffs and you Swallow, you still end up with 3 Defense and Special Defense debuffs. But this is what Haze is for, as it deletes your negative stat changes and renders the opponent's fancy new defensive buffs moot.



(Lunala) (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Psychic
- Moongeist Beam
This set is for a good old rampage through the opposing team. You slap whatever's in front with a Spore, pull off one Tail Glow and carnage ensues. Lunala has great speed and Psychic + Ghost has great coverage. As a bonus, if something manages to bring you down to pinch HP, you can go faster due to that Salac Berry and Simple.


(Solgaleo) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
This set is the reverse of the Lunala set. You pull off a Simple-boosted Dragon Dance or two, then let em have it.


Blissey @ Quick Claw/Leppa Berry
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Tackle
- Disarming Voice
- Diamond Storm
- Steam Eruption
What else is there to say about this one, really? You turn into the opponent and copy their stats and buffs, flip their strategy on its head, and become unkillable due to your staggering HP. The Quick Claw is to guarantee you move faster than the copied foe at least some of the time and murder them with their own buffs. The moves are just placeholders, as you copy the foe's moves with Imposter. The Leppa Berry is to give you 25 PP rather than 20.
Use shift gear instead of dragon dance. And mind including how you would improof them?
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
Some stuff I've been using a fair bit:

Aggron-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Gyro Ball
- Spectral Thief/Clear Smog/Topsy-Turvy
- Slack Off
This set is tailor made to wall almost anything you can throw at it except boosted Deoxys formes, which run rampant in the metagame due to their almost endless possibilities, and Pokemon with a very high amount of boosts. Cosmic Power is to increase its walling potential in conjunction with Fur Coat, reaching a whopping 4476 Defense (a feat only Fur Coat M-Steelix and Shuckle can also attest to, but M-Steelix has worse Attack and Speed, and Shuckle has low HP) and 1036 Special Defense at maximum buffs. There is always the possibility of some errant Deoxys-S or the like hitting you with a Spectral Thief, but that's what your own Spectral Thief is for, to grab the boosts back. Alternatively, you can slap them with a Clear Smog or Topsy-Turvy and punish them for stealing your boosts. Gyro Ball is for making use of that great Attack and low Speed to chip away at the opponent's health. Slack Off restores HP in case the opponent's dealing a bit too much scratch damage(which isn't likely, taking that potentially huge Defense into consideration, you'll be on the receiving end of less than 1% of your HP on average). As a bonus, it's immune to Toxic, but who uses that in BH, am I right?


Zygarde-Complete @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Cosmic Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover
- Thousand Arrows
This set, on the other hand, is made for more mixed purposes, with more emphasis on defense. Like with Aggron, Cosmic Power is to buff up your defenses and increase survivability against some errant Ice Beam or what have you. Thousand Arrows is for hitting those pesky Steel types and is Zygarde's go to move here. Clear Smog and Recover serve the same purpose as with Aggron.


Giratina-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Entrainment
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Haze
This set is for walling under safe setup conditions. Entrainment in conjunction with Normalize is to completely nullify the attacks of the current Pokemon, a strategy used commonly in the tier by Mega Gengar. When the opponent switches out, you will have safely stockpiled enough so that when they hit you, it won't do that much, and when they chip at your health enough, you can safely Swallow, afflict them with Normalize, and restart the cycle. Now, Spectral Thief may seem like a problem here, as when an opponent steals your buffs and you Swallow, you still end up with 3 Defense and Special Defense debuffs. But this is what Haze is for, as it deletes your negative stat changes and renders the opponent's fancy new defensive buffs moot.



(Lunala) (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Psychic
- Moongeist Beam
This set is for a good old rampage through the opposing team. You slap whatever's in front with a Spore, pull off one Tail Glow and carnage ensues. Lunala has great speed and Psychic + Ghost has great coverage. As a bonus, if something manages to bring you down to pinch HP, you can go faster due to that Salac Berry and Simple.


(Solgaleo) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Zen Headbutt
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
This set is the reverse of the Lunala set. You pull off a Simple-boosted Dragon Dance or two, then let em have it.


Blissey @ Quick Claw/Leppa Berry
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Tackle
- Disarming Voice
- Diamond Storm
- Steam Eruption
What else is there to say about this one, really? You turn into the opponent and copy their stats and buffs, flip their strategy on its head, and become unkillable due to your staggering HP. The Quick Claw is to guarantee you move faster than the copied foe at least some of the time and murder them with their own buffs. The moves are just placeholders, as you copy the foe's moves with Imposter. The Leppa Berry is to give you 25 PP rather than 20.
first of all, thanks for posting. this thread needs more posts, and yours looks like it has some thought put into it, which is cool.

the problem with the defensive sets is that they just don't do anything. giratina has no way of punishing or preventing switches so the opponent can just switch back and forth between two mons to wall it.

the cosmic power sets i can see potentially putting in work against more offensive builds if you manage to get a few boosts, but they lose to anything that can handle the mediocre power and pp of their attacks. anything can remove your defensive boosts with haze or spectral thief because you don't have the power to meaningfully hurt them. they're also not very good at stopping opposing mons that have already set up, because they rely on already having boosts to beat things.

solgaleo and lunala look a bit more promising. salac berry is really weird but i can kind of see it working on lunala, not solgaleo though because you outspeed everybody after a boost anyway. solganium z would be nice because the extra power can beat some stuff like arceus at +2.

as for small optimizations, dusk mane is probably better than solgaleo with a speed boosting set thanks to the extra attack. also zen headbutt and psychic are usually bad, use photon geyser and psystrike respectively. bullet punch over coverage is weird but i guess you kill diancie unboosted

finally, every imposter should have whirlwind. imposter doesn't activate if the opposing mon is behind a sub or if they're already transformed, so whirlwind helps you escape those situations.

hopefully that was helpful, join the om discord if you want to talk about bh (can't get an invite on phone sorry) (edit: https://discord.gg/TRhhPA)

ok now i have a challenge for the bh community. it's dumb but the thread is dead anyway so

it's generally accepted that most ultra beasts have a semi solid niche in bh, even buzzwole/blace/guzzlord/staka to an extent. but there is one that's never been accepted to have any type of viability:



naganadel can succeed in standard thanks to its specialized movepool/stats/typing. but in bh, all it has to offer is that unique dragon/poison typing, decent speed, and special attack on par with giratina-o and arceus. i'm a completionist, so i challenge all of you...

can you make naganadel, the last ultra beast, viable in bh?

there are a few obstacles to overcome, so it will be difficult:
  • has to do something that ray or gengar can't do better
  • can't just be hard walled by special walls like ogre and fc chans
  • boosting sets need a way to set up reliably so gira and friends can't just be cheeky and stay in to spectral
  • can't be overwhelmingly bad
the two sets i've tried so far are specs adapt/neuroforce with stabs/earth power/knock and draco plate speed boost tail glow + 3 attacks. i've theorymonned contrary draco plate but i'm not quite sure on the moves yet. can you do better?

let's get this super cool dragon on the vr!!!
 
first of all, thanks for posting. this thread needs more posts, and yours looks like it has some thought put into it, which is cool.

the problem with the defensive sets is that they just don't do anything. giratina has no way of punishing or preventing switches so the opponent can just switch back and forth between two mons to wall it.

the cosmic power sets i can see potentially putting in work against more offensive builds if you manage to get a few boosts, but they lose to anything that can handle the mediocre power and pp of their attacks. anything can remove your defensive boosts with haze or spectral thief because you don't have the power to meaningfully hurt them. they're also not very good at stopping opposing mons that have already set up, because they rely on already having boosts to beat things.

solgaleo and lunala look a bit more promising. salac berry is really weird but i can kind of see it working on lunala, not solgaleo though because you outspeed everybody after a boost anyway. solganium z would be nice because the extra power can beat some stuff like arceus at +2.

as for small optimizations, dusk mane is probably better than solgaleo with a speed boosting set thanks to the extra attack. also zen headbutt and psychic are usually bad, use photon geyser and psystrike respectively. bullet punch over coverage is weird but i guess you kill diancie unboosted

finally, every imposter should have whirlwind. imposter doesn't activate if the opposing mon is behind a sub or if they're already transformed, so whirlwind helps you escape those situations.

hopefully that was helpful, join the om discord if you want to talk about bh (can't get an invite on phone sorry) (edit: https://discord.gg/TRhhPA)

ok now i have a challenge for the bh community. it's dumb but the thread is dead anyway so

it's generally accepted that most ultra beasts have a semi solid niche in bh, even buzzwole/blace/guzzlord/staka to an extent. but there is one that's never been accepted to have any type of viability:



naganadel can succeed in standard thanks to its specialized movepool/stats/typing. but in bh, all it has to offer is that unique dragon/poison typing, decent speed, and special attack on par with giratina-o and arceus. i'm a completionist, so i challenge all of you...

can you make naganadel, the last ultra beast, viable in bh?

there are a few obstacles to overcome, so it will be difficult:
  • has to do something that ray or gengar can't do better
  • can't just be hard walled by special walls like ogre and fc chans
  • boosting sets need a way to set up reliably so gira and friends can't just be cheeky and stay in to spectral
  • can't be overwhelmingly bad
the two sets i've tried so far are specs adapt/neuroforce with stabs/earth power/knock and draco plate speed boost tail glow + 3 attacks. i've theorymonned contrary draco plate but i'm not quite sure on the moves yet. can you do better?

let's get this super cool dragon on the vr!!!
Pre Ilusion ban I would've tried something with that as a gimmick. I'm not exceptionally skilled at BH so here's a meme.

One of Nagandel's problems is it's bad stab combo, letting it be walled by most steels. A choice item set would force it to switch if they bring in either a fairy or steel.

Naganadel @ Firium Z
Ability: Neuroforce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat /fireblast
- Pursuit
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse or something

This set is just meant to lure in a steel then hit them with the Z-move, if you got enough chip, and have rocks you could ohko though you have far better chance with spikes

252+ SpA Neuroforce Naganadel Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You can try to pursuit kill it if it does try to switch

Pretty useless to be honest, things pretty much M-gar lite.
 
Pre Ilusion ban I would've tried something with that as a gimmick. I'm not exceptionally skilled at BH so here's a meme.

One of Nagandel's problems is it's bad stab combo, letting it be walled by most steels. A choice item set would force it to switch if they bring in either a fairy or steel.

Naganadel @ Firium Z
Ability: Neuroforce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat /fireblast
- Pursuit
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Pulse or something

This set is just meant to lure in a steel then hit them with the Z-move, if you got enough chip, and have rocks you could ohko though you have far better chance with spikes

252+ SpA Neuroforce Naganadel Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You can try to pursuit kill it if it does try to switch

Pretty useless to be honest, things pretty much M-gar lite.
There's no reason to run Fire Blast in BH, and Overheat is only good on Contrary sets. Use Blue Flare instead. Likewise, don't use Dragon Pulse when you could use Core Enforcer, Clanging Scales, or Spacial Rend. And Pursuit is worthless on a mon with 73 base attack that isn't even a dark type.

Also, the challenge specifically asked for something not walled by Chansey, and your set fails miserably:

252+ SpA Naganadel Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 100-118 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
 
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 170-200 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Naganadel Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 184-217 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is the biggest problem with naga, honestly; even on its stabs, it’s too weak. Its resistances are nothing special, and if you want to run ir for the slightly stronger dragon and poison moves over MMY, modest MMY is faster than timid Naga. Outside of some jank fur coat lure or the like, the only tiny use for Naga is as a modest stab based (usually adaptability) attacker.
 

morogrim

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
127 SpA is just too weak for BH standards for an offensive mon. 121 Spe would have been alright if it had at least some bulk but it doesnt even have that going for it. Generally speaking, for an offensive special attacker in BH, you wanna have around ~150 SpA. Viable special attackers that have lower SpA (Arceus and Xerneas for example) have good bulk to make up for the lower SpA which means they get to setup easier.
 
Minior=god tier Gupreet explained why the sets had some issues, but lemme go into a little more detail.

First, Cosmic Power is one of those "good yet not good" moves. Once its going, and if your opponent can't remove it, it's friggin' great. You're this unstoppable behemoth of defense that can only be brought down by a lucky crit. The major problem is it takes a whopping six turns of set-up to get going, which is a really long time of letting your opponent do as they please.

And then there's the issues of spending all that time setting up only to get hit with Haze, Spectral Thief, Clear Smog, Topsy-Turvy, Heart Swap, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, or Whirlwind. Or the other issue of your opponent seeing Cosmic Power and immediately switching in a Simple Shell Smash user and blasting your maybe +2 butt with a +4 Stored Power Trip or +4 Moongeist Beam, Sunsteel Strike, Photon Geyser. Or +4 V-Create or Thousand Arrows or... you get the idea.

Imposter can also wait for you to set-up, switch in, and just laugh as your unboosted attacks don't even tickle it.


In particular, the Aggron set gets beaten by 99% of the defensive Pokemon in the meta, beating the occasional regular Diancie wall. Most defensive Pokemon run minimal speed, so Gyro Ball's power will be significantly reduced, and they have the bulk and recovery to easily stall out its 8 PP. Aggron's only hope is to Spectral Thief a big attack boost, but that won't work on stuff like set-up Poison Heal or Simple Regigias or a stat-stealing Fur Coat/Unaware Arceus.

Side note: Toxic is used some, especially on lower ladder. Corossive Toxic is particularly effective since Steel-types are rarely prepared for it.

Zygarde is in the samish boat. More consistent damage, but lower maximum power. And harder to PP stall. It also has to scout for Ice Beam, Blizzard, ice Z-moves, and so forth. It'll probably beat most Electric-types at least. Also, Sitrus Berry? That's for Unburden, Harvest, or stray Acrobatics sets.

Giratina... just doesn't do anything except be kinda annoying and waste some time. You might get a forfeit victory from someone impatient, but most players will have one or another way to work around it. This set is also 100% Taunt bait, which shuts it down HARD. It also gets beaten by set-up sweepers who don't care about Normalize, such as Judgement and Revelation Dance users. And you can't haze them because they'll just bop you neutrally because you lose your defensive boosts and can't recover without dropping farther.

Also, Imposter wrecks all these sets and can PP stall them willy-nilly.

For offensive sets...

Lunala's is more or less all right. Might prefer Smash since it's not super speedy and Salac is, as said, a weird choice. It has no options against Dark-types, however. Especially Bounce/Poison Heal users. Also, consider Dawn Necrozma.

Solgaleo... worth repeating: Shift Gear over D.Dance. Set is a little weird though. Psychic Fangs is superior to Zen Headbutt, but Photon Geyser is usually superior to both. Bullet Punch seems a little odd. Potentially useful vs Smash Diancie or something... but otherwise, you're boosting your speed either way. Also, again, consider Dusk Necrozma.



Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

I kinda agree with Morogrim here, Nagandel's offensive stats are just a little too low. It needs to plug this up with an ability, but other than Simple, Contrary, or maybe Sheer Force, nothing comes right to mind. Some Pokemon can use really strong abilities like Galvanize to make-up for a below-optimal offensive stat, but not sure there's one that suits Nagandel well enough to do that.

I think the place to start with Nagandel, rather than looking at sets, is what meta Pokemon does it check well that others would have a harder time with? Like, in theory, it matches vs Xerneas better than Ray since it's not weak to Fairy and has a SE STAB. It's less scared of Zygarde than Gengar because it can hit with a SE STAB. What sort of team would want Nagandel to answer these threats that it can't do well with something else due to synergistic issues?

Granted, the stats might hold it back from these theories being practical.
 

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