BH Balanced Hackmons

i was wondering when someone is gonna come up with a belly drum set, sice i have never actually seen this in battle, but it looses to imposter even more, and is also weak to haze a lot, since dusk mane dosen't have prankster immunity, the set would just be crashed by giratina. (maybe EQ one-hits imposter blissey, i' not sure, but blisseys EQ straight up KOs
Imposter doesn't copy Unburden. When you eat the Sitrus Berry, you have doubled Speed, but because Chansey has not consumed an item, Chansey does not have double Speed. Power Trip is 140 Base Power after Belly Drum, and at +6 Attack a super-effective hit can OHKO even Chansey with minimal Defense EV investment. Most setup including your own Iron Defense/Amnesia sets are weak to Prankster to begin with as 90% of Prankster users run Haze which is completely unblockable. Topsy-Turvy is frankly mediocre due to it's susceptibility to Magic Bounce and Prankster Topsy-Turvy can be blocked by Dark-types.

Also, I'm pretty sure Giratina gets absolutely destroyed by Power Trip, I don't remember the Icicle Crash damage calc but I think that OHKOes too. Any setup set loses to Prankster Giratina and BellyBurden Dusk Mane is not an exception. That's why BellyBurden Dusk Mane is only good in late game. You should wait to scout what abilities your opponent's Pokemon have. Your own Imposter can help make this easier if you choose to use that. Simply put, I don't think it's anything less than an unplay to set up with Dusk Mane before you are fully certain whether your opponent has a Prankster or not. Even I'll admit I'm somewhat guilty of this.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- V-create
- Ice Hammer
- Baton Pass
I personally don't like the idea of Baton Passing with Contrary Pokemon. It sounds good in theory but in practice it makes Imposter VERY threatening. Should Imposter come in on you and lose the Speed tie on Baton Passing, you automatically lose momentum and risk getting counterswept.

BP on the MMX makes you slightly more susceptible to being beaten by your own strategy from Imposter, but I've found that most teams aren't properly equipped with the right sweepers to actually take advantage of those boosts, and even when they do, they typically can't beat Tina. For added security you can definitely add Prankster Haze or something like that, but I find it to be fairly unnecessary.
Power Trip and Stored Power mons are one of the reasons why I get very nervous about this kind of set. You can opt to run Prankster on Giratina (Strength Sap is standard on Prankster anyways), but you don't hard counter Mega Mewtwo X any more. Still, I would personally run a Prankster mon, maybe with a second setup sweeper, to help deal with Power Trip and Stored Power Pokemon.
 
I havent played in a couple months. How competitive are my sets still?

Biggot (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stored Power
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard

OU (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Quiver Dance
- Thousand Waves

"Big Daddy" (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Oblivion Wing

Sike (Arceus-Ghost) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Power Trip
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Foot Fungus (Shedinja) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Endeavor
- Recycle
- Infestation
- Extreme Speed
 
hoopa set
good but you can't beat sturdinja. I'd replace ice shard with sunsteel, and focus sash with white herb. That lets you easily survive any priority hit from megaray and KO it back with power trip. You won't survive mega diancie's fake speed, but your original set can't either, and this way you beat imposter easily and you don't have to be at 1 hp and easily picked off by the next priority move. You also beat shedinja this way. And you don't have to worry as much about hazard damage

gengar-mega
good
rayquaza-mega
good but where's the improof (don't say arceus because mb reflects spore. No competent player would take that risk)

arceus-ghost:
bad, Use bulk up or coil over Cosmic Power, and use frustration over power trip as your attack. Alternatively use quiver dance and boomburst. This ensures you are totally improof since Chansey will actually be ghost type, won't get stab on boomburst, and is vulnerable to spectral thief whereas it can't Spectral thief you back.

zygarde-c
bad, use deoxys-s instead

Shedinja
Bad, use protective pads, and switch infestation with U-Turn and Recycle with either Pain Split or Pursuit. You can get status immunity by running misty surge, or find a Poison Heal user that can absorb status and knock offs.b
 
Hey so I’m actually glad we had the opportunity to talk about other sets, because I found it particularly interesting that:

252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 434-512 (90.7 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 384-454 (96.4 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Zweilous: 380-450 (109.1 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 456-536 (100.4 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 504-596 (121.7 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 676-804 (167.3 - 199%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... if you, for some odd reason, decided to make a team of the last 6 sets posted in this thread, it would easily get swept by a simple Contrary MMX with Superpower, V-Create, and some odd coverage move (Fleur or Ice Hammer, your pick). For this reason, I think we should talk a bit about Contrary. I’m not entirely convinced that it is broken yet, but after some more consideration, I think we should be open to the possibility of a suspect. Of course, that kind of discussion belongs in the suspect thread, not this one, so instead of discussing the suspect, I'd like to mention a cool Contrary combo I've been using lately.



Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- V-create
- Ice Hammer
- Baton Pass


Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Core Enforcer
- Strength Sap
- Baton Pass

Typically what you want in secondary receivers are Pokemon that can beat setup checks.


Slaking @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Shift Gear

Slaking is one of the best receivers in my opinion, as Poison Heal helps it shrug off attacks easily when boosted from V-Create. I chose Slaking here partly because of the previous discussion about whether it's useful or not (hint: it is) but also because the higher defense is particularly important in this case to reduce susceptibility to -ate, which MMX is weak to. It's self-imposterproof (even more so than Regigigas is), and also immune to Spectral Thief, so it goes well with MMX as a wallbreaker. The last slot is typically Shift Gear so it's not useless alone, but you can also use Baton Pass to keep up the chain, or slap on Infestation to beat Shedinja.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter
- Spectral Thief
- Shedinja (if Infestation is used)


Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Secret Sword

(To be used with Psycho Boost on MMX instead of Ice Hammer) Gengar-Mega is another powerful receiver. It is one of the best Mold Breaker sweepers in the meta, is self imposterproof, and can also stand as an effective sweeper on its own. Defense boosts let you run Sludge Wave, which is slightly more risky, but improves overall power tremendously.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter
- Shedinja
- Unaware (with enough boosts. +2 OHKOs Mega Audino, Giratina, and even Gyarados and Chansey, and 2HKOs Yveltal and POgre)


Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Power Trip
- Close Combat

Deo-A works too as a hyper offensive option to beat Prankster and -ate. It, too, is incredibly powerful, and with Focus Sash, it Imposter-proofs itself. There's no real reason why this Deo-A works better with Contrary rather than without, and predictions are necessary to Baton Pass it in safely, but once it's in it works wonders. This is a physical attacking sweeper to receive Superpower boosts from MMX, but of course if you choose to use MMY as your Contrary passer, you can opt for Moongeist + Stored Power.

Setup checks beaten:
- Imposter (if Sash preserved)
- Shedinja
- Prankster
- Priority
- Unaware (with Photon Geyser, though unreliable because most unaware Pokemon can tank it anyway)

... and there are many more, in particular Dark-type Poison Heal.


I think Baton Pass is really undervalued as a pivoting move, especially now that Spectral Thief is so darn good. I know a lot of people typically play Contrary as a sweeper, but there's a lot of utility to be gained playing it as a wallbreaker as well, especially because it's fairly easy to kick off the initial snowball as MMX forces switches, but not always as easy to keep going, especially early game, as people tend to overprepare for it. Baton Pass helps fix this issue as it lets you keep up the offensive pressure without fearing losing the boosts or their originator. It also lets you pivot into other sweepers that are better equipped at handling opposing walls.

I use Unaware Tina with this to Imposter-proof MMX itself. It does a pretty good job of walling this MMX set, barely being 3HKOd by Ice Hammer, and with Spectral Thief, can steal the boosts and pass them to someone else. BP on the MMX makes you slightly more susceptible to being beaten by your own strategy from Imposter, but I've found that most teams aren't properly equipped with the right sweepers to actually take advantage of those boosts, and even when they do, they typically can't beat Tina. For added security you can definitely add Prankster Haze or something like that, but I find it to be fairly unnecessary.

The strongest part about Contrary BP (and Contrary in general) is that it's a low-risk, high-reward strategy that is both powerful and durable. I mean, there's a bit of hype going around about SF LO MMY lately, but Contrary easily matches its power and can stack boosts on top of that. With the right preparation, you can build powerful setups that are only securely countered by Prankster Haze, which itself is quite passive, and doesn't really threaten you much.
Mr. Genius you didn't calc Zweilous ability, and might also have an iron defense boost if Mewtwo-Mega X has to be switched in first

Imposter doesn't copy Unburden. When you eat the Sitrus Berry, you have doubled Speed, but because Chansey has not consumed an item, Chansey does not have double Speed. Power Trip is 140 Base Power after Belly Drum, and at +6 Attack a super-effective hit can OHKO even Chansey with minimal Defense EV investment. Most setup including your own Iron Defense/Amnesia sets are weak to Prankster to begin with as 90% of Prankster users run Haze which is completely unblockable. Topsy-Turvy is frankly mediocre due to it's susceptibility to Magic Bounce and Prankster Topsy-Turvy can be blocked by Dark-types.

Also, I'm pretty sure Giratina gets absolutely destroyed by Power Trip, I don't remember the Icicle Crash damage calc but I think that OHKOes too. Any setup set loses to Prankster Giratina and BellyBurden Dusk Mane is not an exception. That's why BellyBurden Dusk Mane is only good in late game. You should wait to scout what abilities your opponent's Pokemon have. Your own Imposter can help make this easier if you choose to use that. Simply put, I don't think it's anything less than an unplay to set up with Dusk Mane before you are fully certain whether your opponent has a Prankster or not. Even I'll admit I'm somewhat guilty of this.



I personally don't like the idea of Baton Passing with Contrary Pokemon. It sounds good in theory but in practice it makes Imposter VERY threatening. Should Imposter come in on you and lose the Speed tie on Baton Passing, you automatically lose momentum and risk getting counterswept.



Power Trip and Stored Power mons are one of the reasons why I get very nervous about this kind of set. You can opt to run Prankster on Giratina (Strength Sap is standard on Prankster anyways), but you don't hard counter Mega Mewtwo X any more. Still, I would personally run a Prankster mon, maybe with a second setup sweeper, to help deal with Power Trip and Stored Power Pokemon.
The thing is, that Prankster Giratina outspeeds Necrozma, and also, i want to mention that a anything that lives a powertrip (Yveltal) could straight go spectral thief, (Although most of the things in the meta are just OHKOed by Powertrip i admit.)
 
I havent played in a couple months. How competitive are my sets still?

Biggot (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stored Power
- Power Trip
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard

OU (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Quiver Dance
- Thousand Waves

"Big Daddy" (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
- Spore
- Oblivion Wing

Sike (Arceus-Ghost) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Power Trip
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Foot Fungus (Shedinja) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Endeavor
- Recycle
- Infestation
- Extreme Speed
You may want to consider running Dazzling/QM on Hoopa with 172 Def EVs which let you OHKO Imposter after Smashing with Power Trip. It'll give you protection from FakeSpeed and you can free up your Ice Shard slot for a more useful coverage move.

I don't really see what Thousand Waves accomplishes on Gengar. I get you can trap with it but most teams carry an answer for Normalize and will likely switch their Relevation Dance user or Magic Bouncer in as soon as you have Gengar out. I would recommend just using any of the moves from the Setpedia over it as they will likely provide more useful utility than what Thousand Waves would.

Rayquaza should be Timid instead of Hasty since both of your attacks are Special.

Cosmic Power isn't a particularly good move on Arceus or anything for that matter because you don't threaten Haze users once you've setup with it. You would benefit more from replacing it with virtually any offensive setup move.

Zygarde seems way too passive and is prime setup bait every time you bring it in. You may want to either move one of your hazards to a different team member or just forego one of them entirely and have some sort of anti-setup incentive on Zygarde such as Spectral Thief.

Protective Pads is the standard on Sturdinja as it lets you circumvent Rocky Helmet and Spiky Shield / Baneful Bunker. Infestation isn't really necessary as you can Endeavor on the switches it forces and running a pivoting move lets you scout for potential Mold Breaker Pursuit switch-ins. You may want to consider Feint instead of ESpeed for the higher PP so you don't get stalled out by anything with Protect variants.
 
Mr. Genius you didn't calc Zweilous ability, and might also have an iron defense boost if Mewtwo-Mega X has to be switched in first



The thing is, that Prankster Giratina outspeeds Necrozma, and also, i want to mention that a anything that lives a powertrip (Yveltal) could straight go spectral thief, (Although most of the things in the meta are just OHKOed by Powertrip i admit.)
Zweilous is still going to do practically nothing, also iron defense raises def by 2 stages(x2) while cotton guard does it by 3(x2.5)

Lets say MMX switches in and zweilous goes for cotton guard,

252 Atk Zweilous Power Trip (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 135-160 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO

This thing has little offensive power and is too slow to threaten any attacker,

MMX kills it with 3 hits and with no recovery your not going to be useful for a large portion of the match.
EDIT:Calcs
252 Atk Contrary Mewtwo-Mega-X Superpower over 3 turns vs. +6 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Zweilous: 392-466 (112.6 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed KO in 3 turns

If you want to do an anti prankster imprison set

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Simple
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Imprison
- Haze
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip

Credits to OM!

You can imprison, first turn then shell smash since you're min speed you can underspeed the spectral. Then mega evolve to gain stab bonus and mold breaker for shedninja if you wish.
 
SirbutteralotIII Because you can never have too many opinions, here's mine. Gonna assume these aren't a team, even though you have six, since you asked about sets rather than a team.

Hoopa: As strong as the set is, it'll struggle if Registeel is still up (almost always Prankster Haze) or if you happen to run into Unaware Dark-type, usually Gyarados. You're also incredibly vulnerable to opposing Imposter and opposing priority if you get chipped at all (usually by hazards or a slow U-Turn when you set-up). I can see this set going at least one for one pretty easily at worst though.


Gengar: More or less fine, might be a little slow on the set-up with Q.Dance since Gengar isn't particularly bulky. I feel you ought to swap Thousand Waves for special coverage, either like Boomburst for damage or another special move for secondary effect, like Moongeist, Oblivion Wing, etc. They'll all be Normal-type moves, so the typing won't matter. Alternatively, switch to Shell Smash so you get a power boost for T.Waves.


Ray: This looks more or less like a fairly standard Triage set. Timid or Modest would be better natures though.


Arceus: Cosmic Power is one of those "good but not really good" moves. If they can't check it, it's great. If they can, its worthless. And there are lots of checks in the current meta to slow set-up. Honestly, I'd drop both it and Power Trip. Use Boomburst for damage and either a different set-up move in place of Cosmic Power or a different utility or coverage move entirely. You might consider Fur Coat or Unaware as the ability if you opt for no set-up moves and run it more as a set-up check (steal the boosts and fire back.)

I have a variant of this set in one of my signature-linked RMTs. Here, lemme excerpt it for you.

Arceus @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Boomburst
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Baton Pass

Choosing between Unaware and Fur Coat is... really non-trivial. Both had their perks, with Fur Coat letting Arceus better staredown Primal Groudon and some other physical attackers while Unaware handles set-up users/spam teams better. In the end, I opted for the latter since it provided features my team needed more. The idea is to simply steal boosts and either pass or shoot back as the situation demands.

Arceus may not have great offensive stats for BH, but Boomburst off of 120 Special Attack is enough to threaten most offensive Pokemon and more than enough if I steal special attack boosts. Even if I can't steal, such as against Poison Heal Gigas, or if they're really dead-set on Impostering me every time I do steal, Boomburst does good, solid damage on its own. Arceus is more than strong enough to counter most set-up-and-sweep spam teams and Unaware keeps the opponent from successfully Sash Smashing and breaking through anyway. And if I can do so safely, I can pass it to an actual attacker to go win the game.



Zygarde: Way too passive. It'll be set-up bait every single time. You really shouldn't layer up so many hazards unless you're doing like a shuffle stall team. And even then, spreading them out is more ideal as they'll be able to set-up on you every single time you try to get hazards up since this set only threatens Pokemon who are like... level 10. At the very least if you do this, put it on a Ghost type so it can spin block, especially from opposing Imposter.


Shedinja: Eh, pretty standard, more or less. Protective Pads is the flavor of the month item, but Lum Berry and Focus Sash both have their merits still.
 
Can someone give me a few pointers for imposter proofing and general improvments?

Blaziken-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Superpower
- Ice Hammer
- Dragon Ascent
I don't use this guy much and might replace this.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
Triage M-Ray, a bit imposter proof but not much with goggles.

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance
The most imposter proof on the team. Entrainment to give Normalize, then quiver dance to set up. Plate makes Judgement Ghost.

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Topsy-Turvy
Big fat tank. Shore up to heal, shift gear to set up, Arrows to attack, Topsy to deal with sweepers.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon
Revenge killer/sweeper

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip
Main sweeper, imposterproof IF a speed tie is won. Otherwise, game over. Using this one as a chansey lure is risky, though pays off well.
 
Can someone give me a few pointers for imposter proofing and general improvments?

Blaziken-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Superpower
- Ice Hammer
- Dragon Ascent
I don't use this guy much and might replace this.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
Triage M-Ray, a bit imposter proof but not much with goggles.

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance
The most imposter proof on the team. Entrainment to give Normalize, then quiver dance to set up. Plate makes Judgement Ghost.

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Topsy-Turvy
Big fat tank. Shore up to heal, shift gear to set up, Arrows to attack, Topsy to deal with sweepers.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon
Revenge killer/sweeper

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip
Main sweeper, imposterproof IF a speed tie is won. Otherwise, game over. Using this one as a chansey lure is risky, though pays off well.
So I dislike posting here mainly because I'm a lazy fuck but I'll try and help you imposterproof things.

Skipping mon #1 because I hate contrary for reasons I'll get into later in the post.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore / Substitute
- Moongeist Beam / Giga Drain
- Tail Glow
This is a great set, Triage Rayquaza does decently in the current metagame. The best imposterproof to this would be any dazzling pokemon with Saftey Goggles, and possibly a normal type if you're running move one on slot 3 (Dazzling Arceus new meta). Dazzling Gengar could also be an alternative over normalize while imposterproofing itself and Ray. Giga Drain beats Diancie on the switch or after a Fake Out.

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance

Bounce Audino is my favorite check for this set but, like most Gengars, it is self imposterproofed. Shell Smash over QD if you like offense (as shown by the rest of your team). Solid set, I mean if you forget a check you autoloose. /shrug

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Arrows
- Topsy-Turvy


This set, to be frank, is pretty bad. This team looks pretty offensive so I would suggest changing it to prankster as an emergency check to setup. Zygod still does well here (even though I like Registeel as a prankster user much better), so I'll copypaste the set here.

Code:
Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles 
Ability: Prankster 
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD 
Relaxed Nature 
IVs: 0 Spe 
- Thousand Waves 
- Core Enforcer 
- Shore Up 
- Haze
This set is a self contained imposterproof so no changes here.

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip

This Yveltal used to be very reliant on the speedtie and is destroyed by scarfimposter anyway. With unburden (This is actually the first set E4 posted in the thread), it can imprision on imposter no matter its item, and proceed to boost up to +4 by forcing a switch, therefore utterly outclassing simple.

Blaziken-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Superpower
- Ice Hammer
- Dragon Ascent

oh

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon

god

So I've been meaning to post a little rant about contrary but it's kind of out of place anywhere else so I'm glad you posted a place for me to do this. Don't take offense about what I'm going to say, it's directed at the meta rather than you.
I HATE CONTRARY ON CLEANERS
I realize its a good ability competitively, but there's simply too many checks and these things can pretty much power through anything that isn't unaware, and even then these things need raw power to start so they can beat their imposterproofs. 90% never seems to hit when you want it to and the 4MSS on these is insane. Do I want Fleur Cannon? What about V-Create? Don't I want priority as well? What about Shedinja? I'm not really coherently posting right now but I mean it's probably the most overrated ability in Low Ladder BH. It's good but not good enough to warrant a spot in the amount of teams it gets.

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this so I guess I will be posting here more often, but this really is just my opinion, sorry again if I offended you Blazin Delphox, but contrary is just

ugh

Ok now that I've got that rant out of my system, I can go back to doing other stuff. (pls no one reply to that I just wanna put my feelings out there, IK a lot of you probably feel differently and I'm not a good poster/debater, just wanted to post incoherently)

With Blazekin, I think that this team would greatly appreciate a priority user to chip less frail opponents.

crystalline (Diancie-Mega) @ Groundium Z / Pixie Plate / Life Orb / Saftey Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Precipice Blades / V-Create

This set should be able to cover your teams weaknesses.
The sense I get from your team is that you like MMY so IG you can leave that, however if you change your mind MMY has many other sets that can also work pretty well, PM me if you want them and I can paste.

I hope you continue to enjoy your time in the PS community!

crystalline (Diancie-Mega) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Precipice Blades

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Fleur Cannon

Yveltal @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Imprison
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Trip

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore / Substitute
- Moongeist Beam / Giga Drain
- Tail Glow

Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Waves
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Haze

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Quiver Dance


Oh yeah, you're pretty weak to pursuit/spectral Shedinja but just play well with Gengod and Rayquaza and you should be fine, it should provide enough pressure
 
Kinda a shitty set for my favourite mon Hoopa-U

Hoopa-Unbound @ Insect Plate / Pixie Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Shore Up
Judgment can deal with imposter and dark types that resist psychic, and you resist prankster haze and mold-breaker beats shedninja and unaware.

+2 252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 240-283 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Real weak to priority, but could change to QM/Dazzling if you aren't that worried about shed.
 
Kinda a shitty set for my favourite mon Hoopa-U

Hoopa-Unbound @ Insect Plate / Pixie Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Shore Up
Judgment can deal with imposter and dark types that resist psychic, and you resist prankster haze and mold-breaker beats shedninja and unaware.

+2 252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 240-283 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Real weak to priority, but could change to QM/Dazzling if you aren't that worried about shed.
Pixie Plate doesn't work:

+2 252 SpA Pixie Plate Hoopa-Unbound Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 384-454 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Insect Plate does get you a guaranteed OHKO against Imposter, as long as the Imposter came in after you Shell Smashed, but Imposter could also outspeed and OHKO you if you have a bit of chip damage. And just to illustrate how easy it is for you to get chipped into KO range:

0 Atk Magikarp U-turn vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 80-96 (21.9 - 26.3%) -- 7.3% chance to 4HKO

I don't think you can realistically expect to set up very often without getting enough chip damage to give imposter a chance of beating you.
 
Hi, guys. Looking for some role compression advice for my main BH team. It started in Gen 6 with a Gale Wings M Ray, and a special M Ray designed to surprise and counter it. Eventually, it evolved over the course of a few years, but by now I'm struggling to work in checks and counters to everything while also fulfilling as many roles as possible. My team is really weak to hazards, and has struggled at times with the occasional Mega Steelix. It's also overly reliant on everyone staying up, since each tank is really only a solid counter to one of the attackers. Since I got rid of PrankHaze Regi in favor of FF Celesteela, normal type setup sweepers are also a huge threat. The only things on this team I’m not willing to remove are the two M Rays, since they’ve been a constant since the team’s inception and are its main offensive core. Everything else is fair game.

Stratos (Rayquaza-Mega) (M) @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
Here’s a little secret that I’ve been using since about 2014/15. It’s a running joke between Rex (one of the higher rated players) and I. This bad boy is able to rip apart almost anything with Dragon typing, and smashes a gaping hole into arrogant Zygods who think they can tank it. Steel types are still its biggest weakness, but I chose to go big or go home with this one. He carries Fakespeed to take advantage of squishy, non APS targets, and Boomburst to nuke slower targets that don't resist it. He runs Jolly to maximize speed, ensuring he takes out other M Rays before they can set up or nuke him back. Since Ref Boomburst either gets completely walled or makes a sizable dent, I figured it was okay to lower SpAtk a bit so I wouldn’t have to sacrifice FakeSpeed power or defensive stats. Not really an optimal set, but you can threaten Aerilate to lure in tanks that think they can take your attacks.

Vertigo (Rayquaza-Mega) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
There's lots of counters to Triage M Ray, but with the banning of PsySurge and the overall drop in other APS, some of its biggest threats are no longer an eminent threat. Spore assists her in setting up, and with Goggles, she can take on and decimate an Imposter if she isn't boosted up yet. She's Modest to maximize her damage, but also to make her slower when compared to Stratos. Moongeist is chosen over Photon Geyser to hit psychic and ghost types hard, and so that Mega Audino can completely wall it out. Pretty standard set.

Clueless (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass
- Sunsteel Strike
- Shore Up
This guy is my main counter for Vertigo, and shuts her down hard. Goggles to block Spore from her and other mons, Sunsteel as a little bit of surprise coverage for Shedinja. Spectral is there to deal with any non-Normal setup sweeper, and Baton Pass serves as a slow pivot that can’t be Magic Bounced or blocked with a shield move. It also has the benefit of passing along boosts if I’ve stolen any.

Swivel (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle
- Knock Off
- U-turn
A solid RegenVest set, providing item removal utility and status, not to mention relatively slow pivot for momentum. He's also the best wall to Ref Ray. Also serves as a secondary hazard clearer.

Aegis (Celesteela) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Defog
- U-turn
Pretty straightforward; Stealth Rock is there to give myself at least some kind of hazard threat, Shore Up for healing, Defog for clearing, and U-Turn for pivots. Mainly, it serves as a wall to PDon, but I feel the slot is sort of dead weight.

Titan (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- V-create
- U-turn
- Synthesis
I needed an instant wallbreaker besides Stratos, who is overly reliant on typing and special attack. V-Create PDon does a crap ton of damage, and Precipice Blades hits just about anything that V-Create doesn't destroy for solid damage (except FF Celesteela, of course). U-Turn is there for a bit of pivot, but I couldn’t decide whether I should min-speed to try and get slower pivots or keep max speed to slam into walls before they can attack. Synthesis comes at the cost of half the PP of other recovery moves, but it does heal more due to Desolate Land. I could swap out U-Turn and then change Celesteela to have anchor shot, but I'm not entirely sure.
 
Hi, guys. Looking for some role compression advice for my main BH team. It started in Gen 6 with a Gale Wings M Ray, and a special M Ray designed to surprise and counter it. Eventually, it evolved over the course of a few years, but by now I'm struggling to work in checks and counters to everything while also fulfilling as many roles as possible. My team is really weak to hazards, and has struggled at times with the occasional Mega Steelix. It's also overly reliant on everyone staying up, since each tank is really only a solid counter to one of the attackers. Since I got rid of PrankHaze Regi in favor of FF Celesteela, normal type setup sweepers are also a huge threat. The only things on this team I’m not willing to remove are the two M Rays, since they’ve been a constant since the team’s inception and are its main offensive core. Everything else is fair game.

Stratos (Rayquaza-Mega) (M) @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
Here’s a little secret that I’ve been using since about 2014/15. It’s a running joke between Rex (one of the higher rated players) and I. This bad boy is able to rip apart almost anything with Dragon typing, and smashes a gaping hole into arrogant Zygods who think they can tank it. Steel types are still its biggest weakness, but I chose to go big or go home with this one. He carries Fakespeed to take advantage of squishy, non APS targets, and Boomburst to nuke slower targets that don't resist it. He runs Jolly to maximize speed, ensuring he takes out other M Rays before they can set up or nuke him back. Since Ref Boomburst either gets completely walled or makes a sizable dent, I figured it was okay to lower SpAtk a bit so I wouldn’t have to sacrifice FakeSpeed power or defensive stats. Not really an optimal set, but you can threaten Aerilate to lure in tanks that think they can take your attacks.

Vertigo (Rayquaza-Mega) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Spore
There's lots of counters to Triage M Ray, but with the banning of PsySurge and the overall drop in other APS, some of its biggest threats are no longer an eminent threat. Spore assists her in setting up, and with Goggles, she can take on and decimate an Imposter if she isn't boosted up yet. She's Modest to maximize her damage, but also to make her slower when compared to Stratos. Moongeist is chosen over Photon Geyser to hit psychic and ghost types hard, and so that Mega Audino can completely wall it out. Pretty standard set.

Clueless (Audino-Mega) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass
- Sunsteel Strike
- Shore Up
This guy is my main counter for Vertigo, and shuts her down hard. Goggles to block Spore from her and other mons, Sunsteel as a little bit of surprise coverage for Shedinja. Spectral is there to deal with any non-Normal setup sweeper, and Baton Pass serves as a slow pivot that can’t be Magic Bounced or blocked with a shield move. It also has the benefit of passing along boosts if I’ve stolen any.

Swivel (Solgaleo) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Nuzzle
- Knock Off
- U-turn
A solid RegenVest set, providing item removal utility and status, not to mention relatively slow pivot for momentum. He's also the best wall to Ref Ray. Also serves as a secondary hazard clearer.

Aegis (Celesteela) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Defog
- U-turn
Pretty straightforward; Stealth Rock is there to give myself at least some kind of hazard threat, Shore Up for healing, Defog for clearing, and U-Turn for pivots. Mainly, it serves as a wall to PDon, but I feel the slot is sort of dead weight.

Titan (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- V-create
- U-turn
- Synthesis
I needed an instant wallbreaker besides Stratos, who is overly reliant on typing and special attack. V-Create PDon does a crap ton of damage, and Precipice Blades hits just about anything that V-Create doesn't destroy for solid damage (except FF Celesteela, of course). U-Turn is there for a bit of pivot, but I couldn’t decide whether I should min-speed to try and get slower pivots or keep max speed to slam into walls before they can attack. Synthesis comes at the cost of half the PP of other recovery moves, but it does heal more due to Desolate Land. I could swap out U-Turn and then change Celesteela to have anchor shot, but I'm not entirely sure.
Why would you design counters to your own sets? And the refriegerate thing rayquaza is completely outclassed by Kyurem-B refigerate. Also, Instead of Gale Wings, u can just run triage with oblivion wing, or aerilate with fake out and e-speed.Having priority is not necessary important, because it gives priority to an imposter blissey which copies quaza as well.Groudon would love to have contrary or adaptility, and knowing it's an awesome idea, to do have a Wallbreaker, you can just use MMX, with vcreate, superpower, ice hammer and photon geysir, sunsteel strike or whatever. Vertigo loves a stell attack (or use Doom desire Dialga) the other ones are cool tho
 
Why would you design counters to your own sets? And the refriegerate thing rayquaza is completely outclassed by Kyurem-B refigerate. Also, Instead of Gale Wings, u can just run triage with oblivion wing, or aerilate with fake out and e-speed.Having priority is not necessary important, because it gives priority to an imposter blissey which copies quaza as well.Groudon would love to have contrary or adaptility, and knowing it's an awesome idea, to do have a Wallbreaker, you can just use MMX, with vcreate, superpower, ice hammer and photon geysir, sunsteel strike or whatever. Vertigo loves a stell attack (or use Doom desire Dialga) the other ones are cool tho
The reason there's counters is because of Imposter. Ref Ray is there as a niche to surprise and lure in tanks; Kyurem-B has a bit more damage, but he telegraphs the set really hard. Nobody expects Refrigerate on a Rayquaza when it can run Aerilate. I am running Triage and Oblivion Wing, by the way. It's on Vertigo.
 
The reason there's counters is because of Imposter. Ref Ray is there as a niche to surprise and lure in tanks; Kyurem-B has a bit more damage, but he telegraphs the set really hard. Nobody expects Refrigerate on a Rayquaza when it can run Aerilate. I am running Triage and Oblivion Wing, by the way. It's on Vertigo.
I realized, that u allready have a tail glow, when it was too late, but still, even if its a suprise, its imposter inproof
 

Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

bh's very own pseudo-intellectual
is a Community Contributor
I realized, that u allready have a tail glow, when it was too late, but still, even if its a suprise, its imposter inproof
do you know how imposter proofing works? it doesn't have to beat the imposter dude 1v1, you can have another mon in the back that you can just switch in to stop imposter from putting in work. in this case unaware goggles audino hard walls imposter if they copy triage ray, being immune to all moves except owing which does like 25.

as for the team, not gonna lie i don't see it breaking decent defensive cores. refrigerate ray is walled by steels/ogre/shed and pdon is walled by bro/gira/zyg/shed/steela, and a majority of teams have counters for both so triage ray is really your only way to shake things up. celesteela doesn't pressure any defog user so you can't consistently get hazards.

as for offensive threats, the biggest threats by far are dazzling smash dark types, which ohko audino with sunsteel at +2, and drum dusk mane, which withstands priority and ohkos everyone with sunsteel or power trip. shed is also a huge threat because it comes in on half the team and gets a kill because you have no ghosts. mmx is annoying because ray is your only fighting resist, so cb does big damage when it comes in. you can't touch ph regi at all and he just kinda wins

anyway first off i'd recommend running stealth rock somewhere on the refrigerate ray, probably over spiky shield. stealth rock is one of refrigerate ray's main niches because you don't have to worry about imposter coming in on you really. also run hasty instead of jolly imo.

this means you can run something over rocks on celesteela which is nice. glare can be cool to slow down stuff like ate ray, while topsy turvy does ok vs contrary. personally i'd run worry seed here because you lose to ph regi otherwise.

sunsteel audino is bad because outside of shedinja it's completely dead weight. run scald or leech seed or something.

hope that stuff helped
 
Specs Aerilate Mega Rayquaza will usually do more damage to most targets than Refrigerate Mega Rayquaza ever could. You can 2HKO Registeel with a Rash or Modest nature. That's not something to joke about. So many different people underestimate its power trying to check it. You think Registeel is a safe switch in, but it gets 2HKOed.

If you really want an Ice-type attacker, you should just use Kyurem-Black, or if you want a lure, use Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X (NOT Y!). Both of them will do the job much more effectively than Mega Rayquaza. Mega Rayquaza is the most versatile Pokemon and has loads of good sets, but an Ice attacker is not one of them.
 
do you know how imposter proofing works? it doesn't have to beat the imposter dude 1v1, you can have another mon in the back that you can just switch in to stop imposter from putting in work. in this case unaware goggles audino hard walls imposter if they copy triage ray, being immune to all moves except owing which does like 25.

as for the team, not gonna lie i don't see it breaking decent defensive cores. refrigerate ray is walled by steels/ogre/shed and pdon is walled by bro/gira/zyg/shed/steela, and a majority of teams have counters for both so triage ray is really your only way to shake things up. celesteela doesn't pressure any defog user so you can't consistently get hazards.

as for offensive threats, the biggest threats by far are dazzling smash dark types, which ohko audino with sunsteel at +2, and drum dusk mane, which withstands priority and ohkos everyone with sunsteel or power trip. shed is also a huge threat because it comes in on half the team and gets a kill because you have no ghosts. mmx is annoying because ray is your only fighting resist, so cb does big damage when it comes in. you can't touch ph regi at all and he just kinda wins

anyway first off i'd recommend running stealth rock somewhere on the refrigerate ray, probably over spiky shield. stealth rock is one of refrigerate ray's main niches because you don't have to worry about imposter coming in on you really. also run hasty instead of jolly imo.

this means you can run something over rocks on celesteela which is nice. glare can be cool to slow down stuff like ate ray, while topsy turvy does ok vs contrary. personally i'd run worry seed here because you lose to ph regi otherwise.

sunsteel audino is bad because outside of shedinja it's completely dead weight. run scald or leech seed or something.

hope that stuff helped
I know that Audino counters ray, but it dosent make it imposter "proof". If audino is taken out, then bye imposterproofness. also, i think it is really more effective to make the mon itself imposter proof (like belly burden necrozma) because u don't waste one slot of ur team.
 
I know that Audino counters ray, but it dosent make it imposter "proof". If audino is taken out, then bye imposterproofness. also, i think it is really more effective to make the mon itself imposter proof (like belly burden necrozma) because u don't waste one slot of ur team.
The trick to checking Imposter with teammates is you use sets that do other things so you don't "waste a slot". To use my Manectric RMT in my signature as an example, Fur Coat Chansey checked all three of my attackers (provided Eviolite was intact for Primaldon) while also standing up reliably to large swaths of other attackers of the time. Meanwhile, Flashfire Ferrothorn also checked all three attackers AND also checked some things that threatened Chansey. Giratina then checked two of my attackers and also walled things that broke Chansey and Ferro and also set terrain up for the team. My attackers could check each other depending on the circumstances and all threatened specific threats and walls. Everyone provides ample utility and function to the team beyond "checking Imposter", yet Imposter would find it hard to get a foothold.

I'd argue that teams that go to lengths like "I'm running Alolan-Muk to check my Ytwo set because nothing else stops my Imposter" are teams with a major weakness. This is not a call-out of anyone by the way, just an easy example.

Self-Imposterproofing works too, but the problem are the sets are limited, usually predictable due to the limits, sometimes need to sacrifice defensive EVs/IVs to secure the KO, and can backfire hard if Chansey is carrying an odd item, like Spooky Plate for Judgement Gengar or Focus Sash for Bellydrum sets. A lot of teams don't carry a back-up check to their self-Imposterproof sets, so in situations where Imposter had an odd item, they just straight up lose to Imposter.
 
I know that Audino counters ray, but it dosent make it imposter "proof". If audino is taken out, then bye imposterproofness. also, i think it is really more effective to make the mon itself imposter proof (like belly burden necrozma) because u don't waste one slot of ur team.
That's ideal, but unfortunately not realistically possible for every pokemon unless you make your team 6 Gengars or smth. The community's definition of "imposterproof" is when one pokemon can switch into the transformed version (minus stuff like Spooky Plate) and still be able to check it. The point to having Unaware Audino is that it can counter Ray and still do something. If Audino is taken out in a key MU and you get counterswept, that's your fault, not the pokemon's.
 
I know that Audino counters ray, but it dosent make it imposter "proof". If audino is taken out, then bye imposterproofness.
What sort of logic is this? Of course if something dies it can't check, counter, or Imposter-proof something. It's obvious that if something is dead that it can't Imposter-proof another mon. Audino can't counter Ray if it's dead, either. That's why you prioritize not letting your defensive Pokemon die over your offensive ones.

And to be perfectly frank, saying Audino is a Ray counter is very much stretching it, too.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 354-417 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 82-97 (20 - 23.6%) -- 42.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Sky Plate Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 258-304 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

FakeBurst koes, and Audino can't switch in on it's most common set.

252 Atk Rayquaza-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 169-199 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 328-387 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Audino only serves as a passable Imposter-proof to Triage Mega Rayquaza, not a counter. It would probably be best if you avoided using the word 'counter' in this metagame as there is no true counters to anything.

also, i think it is really more effective to make the mon itself imposter proof (like belly burden necrozma) because u don't waste one slot of ur team.
I misunderstood your comment here so I will be rewriting this. Anyways, not every Pokemon can be self-improofed, and I think an easier way to employ this strategy would be something like Hyper Offense. In Hyper Offense, you use an offensive Pokemon, improof it with another offensive Pokemon, then improof that mon with an offensive Pokemon, so on, so forth, but the problem with Hyper Offense is that it's extremely challenging to build effective teams, let alone teams that actually work and don't get dunked on by Imposter.

Dusk Mane also has it's own issues. I will be writing an analysis for it soon. But just know it does have an issue with Prankster users, which are extremely common the higher you go onto ladder.
 
Last edited:
(NOV2018)

I have a sample team for consideration.

I made it to top 100 in a day or so with an 80% winrate with this guy: https://pokepast.es/0d1d7c51a7166cce

Proofs:
1541742882682.png

1541745019361.png


Anyways here's the team (Apologies for the huge images I just dragged them from pokepaste):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I call this one the "Tried and True" as most sets are just straight up ripped from the moveset compendium. Call me what you will.


Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- baton pass
- spikes​

Ah, good old Zygarde. Turns out great defensive stats and unaware make you a pretty good pokemon. Unaware, Spectral Thief, and Baton Pass make for a pretty good anti-setup mon. I chose to run Baton Pass because there haven't been a huge amount of pokemon trying to taunt me, and passing boosts is good. I also chose to run spikes over hazard removal because zyg gets a lot of free turns when players try to swap to something that can kill it. This thicc god struggles VS Pixel and Refrigerate mons.


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Intimidate / Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Nature's Madness
- Night Shade
- Extreme Speed
- Shore Up

There is literally nothing I do not like about the words "2HKO (almost) every pokemon." I choose Misty Surge here because it's a good ability and I don't like getting put to sleep, however, it's a bit of a nonbo with Deoxys and Spore. The rest is pretty self-explanatory - Just click Natures Madness and then Night Shade. Just watch out for opposing impostor boys. And normal types.


Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- spore
- knock off​

I basically always lead with this guy - He outspeeds the entire game and always survives one hit. Mold breaker is to ignore Magic Bounce. I run Knock Off in hopes that saving this guy and knocking off the opponents Safety Goggles is a good choice. Spore is Spore and Rocks are Rocks.


Zekrom @ Draco Plate
Ability: Galvanize
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Frustration
- Extreme Speed
- Judgment
- Shell Smash​

This mon is the main sweeper on the team - The goal is to set up and sweep. The set lowers the value that Impostor mons get out of switching in as most forget to set happiness when using a mon that isn't already using frustration. Judgement becomes a dragon move with Dravo Plate but is a Normal type move when Impostors swap in. This mon loses to faster pixelate mons and is hard to get set up properly - Which is why passing boosts to it is usually a good idea. This is one of my least used mons and this space is potentially up for grabs.


Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind
- Soft Boiled
- Metal Burst


Yo dawg that's a nice setup sweeper you have there, it'd be a shame if someone stole it then tripled its HP stat. Main switch into setup sweepers, opposing Impostor mons, and Sturdinja. The set is for opposing Impostors - unless the impostor has big dick offense boosts you can Anchor Shot then PP stall other fakers. Or just Whirlwind them away.


Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Sunsteel Strike
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

This mon does a bunch of shit and then comes back again and again. Core enforcer supresses opponents abilities, Sunsteel Strike ignores them. My main swap for Pixelate mons, specifically Mega Diancie. Celesteela is also the only way to clear hazards - especially Toxic Spikes. Tanky as fuck, I'd do calcs but I'm lazy. Be wary of when to hard swap and when to U-turn.


Overall this team is pretty good against most nonsense you'll see on the ladder, and simple to play. It will struggle against those who try to build pure stall or those who can set up Toxic Spikes and keep Celesteela off the field. I often find myself stacking hazards and hoping I can keep up swaps from my opponent. The team has some issues with Sleep Spam, but when that happens it's usually more because I'm frustrated with being asleep. I often can just wait the sleep out since the team is so bulky.

Heres a Flowchart for battle:

(yeah I give up, just send Deoxys out first and make appropriate swaps and you should be fine lmao)


Anyways The main core is Zyg Chansey Kang (Kangarde - Chan) - The rest of the slots are pretty malleable with similar roles.
 
the main problems with the team are

1 no sturdy shedinja answer (endeavor into espeed kills everything. Most teams with shedinja have extremely durable hazard removal, so your deoxys-s can't just keep on setting up hazards.

2 no real mega diancie or mega rayquaza answer. Celesteela is 2hKOed by Boomburst into V-Create, and you have no switchin to standard Triage or Contrary mega rayquaza sets. SO every time they get a free switch, you have to sac something to bring in Chansey and then you are hoping for speed ties.

3 no Poison Heal answer. Ph Xerneas is a particularly big problem for you, because you have nothing that can switch into Quiver Dance/lava plume/moonblast/spore at all. Ph Zygarde-C can avoid the 2hKO from Mega Khangaskan's Nature Madness into Night Shade as well.

4 no normalize mega gengar answer: besides Knock Off Deoxys-S there is nothing stopping Normalize Mega Gengar from sweeping you, and you have no reliable switchin to it.

how to try to fix this
1. Assault Vest Celesteela's bulk is subpar. If you want an assault vest user try Registeel or Dialga, but this will only really handle your mega ray/diancie problem. Instead of AV Celesteela, I suggest Flash Fire Aegislash, which you can find on the setpedia. This protects you from the most common Xerneas set, Mega Diancie with V-Create, and Mixed Mega Rayquaza and gives you a switchin to sturdy shedinja which actually forces it out.

2. Your mega ray problem is harder to deal with without messing up your team structure, but consider axing the Imposter Chansey (high-level ladder players make it hard to countersweep with Chansey anyway) and replacing it with Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar. This set gives you valuable chip damage which your Zekrom might need to ensure KOs, and your Deoxys-s's focus sash doesn't matter as much later in the game. This is another way to dissuade Sturdy Shedinja from switching into you, and you can run Darkinium-Z with Knock Off to beat Normalize Mega Gengar. In fact, between them Mega Ttar and Flash Fire Aegislash handle most of the common mega Rayquaza sets you will see on the ladder: specs aerilate, mixed aerilate without ground coverage, standard contrary, and Triage without Drain Punch.

3. Another option against Normalize Mega Gengar is adding Thousand Waves and Groundium-Z to Zygarde-C, which will at the very least force the Gengar to switch out fearing the z-move. I'd add it over BP or Spikes, especially since you probably won't be able to set spikes against a competent opponent more than once, and your spikes can easily be spun or defogged away.
 
Last edited:
the main problems with the team are

1 no sturdy shedinja answer (endeavor into espeed kills everything. Most teams with shedinja have extremely durable hazard removal, so your deoxys-s can't just keep on setting up hazards.

2 no real mega diancie or mega rayquaza answer. Celesteela is 2hKOed by Boomburst into V-Create, and you have no switchin to standard Triage or Contrary mega rayquaza sets. SO every time they get a free switch, you have to sac something to bring in Chansey and then you are hoping for speed ties.

3 no Poison Heal answer. Ph Xerneas is a particularly big problem for you, because you have nothing that can switch into Quiver Dance/lava plume/moonblast/spore at all. Ph Zygarde-C can avoid the 2hKO from Mega Khangaskan's Nature Madness into Night Shade as well.

4 no normalize mega gengar answer: besides Knock Off Deoxys-S there is nothing stopping Normalize Mega Gengar from sweeping you, and you have no reliable switchin to it.

how to try to fix this
1. Assault Vest Celesteela's bulk is subpar. If you want an assault vest user try Registeel or Dialga, but this will only really handle your mega ray/diancie problem. Instead of AV Celesteela, I suggest Flash Fire Aegislash, which you can find on the setpedia. This protects you from the most common Xerneas set, Mega Diancie with V-Create, and Mixed Mega Rayquaza and gives you a switchin to sturdy shedinja which actually forces it out.

2. Your mega ray problem is harder to deal with without messing up your team structure, but consider axing the Imposter Chansey (high-level ladder players make it hard to countersweep with Chansey anyway) and replacing it with Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar. This set gives you valuable chip damage which your Zekrom might need to ensure KOs, and your Deoxys-s's focus sash doesn't matter as much later in the game. This is another way to dissuade Sturdy Shedinja from switching into you, and you can run Darkinium-Z with Knock Off to beat Normalize Mega Gengar. In fact, between them Mega Ttar and Flash Fire Aegislash handle most of the common mega Rayquaza sets you will see on the ladder: specs aerilate, mixed aerilate without ground coverage, standard contrary, and Triage without Drain Punch.

3. Another option against Normalize Mega Gengar is adding Thousand Waves and Groundium-Z to Zygarde-C, which will at the very least force the Gengar to switch out fearing the z-move. I'd add it over BP or Spikes, especially since you probably won't be able to set spikes against a competent opponent more than once, and your spikes can easily be spun or defogged away.
Just want to write down some thoughts here

I've never had an issue with shedinja - Impostor chansey usually takes care of it, and smart finagling with celesteela often deals with it as well. Hazard stacking at he least minimizes the turns it has available to switch in, even though hazard removal is strong.

Speaking of impostor and sweeping, I actually only use it to try and countersweep if the opportunity is good enough - Im more often just checking sets or imporstoring defensive mons that lack a trapping move. I simply think that impostor is just too good to not have on the team because of its versatility.

Mega Diancie is usually an impostor target too but it does have a pretty strong chance to sweep - Im more worried about mega ray though and have had issues in the past. A boosted zekrom deals with it but that's not always the case. My usual answer is to figure out what item its running and to predict from there - I'll have to change something about the team in order to counter him.

Spore PH xerneas is an issue as well and I have no true answers to that mon.

Ive so far been too big of a fan of my zyg set to change it, spikes have been great in a lot of the games I've played. this still might change the higher up on ladder I get.

Normalize Gengar has not been an issue so far but that will likely change as I go up the ladder.

So basically I see the changes to the team being :

Celesteela -> FF Aegislash

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Milk Drink
- Baton Pass
- Defog
Xerneas Ray and Diancie check.

Deoxys -> Mega TTar

Tyranitar-Mega @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Diamond Storm
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
Chip + Anti Gengar.

Zygarde -> Zygarde With move swap

Spikes -> Thousand Waves
I wanted something to hit normal types.



I'mma test this out and see how it plays. Still haven't seen many good opportunities for zekrom but I really like the idea of an "impostor proof" sweeper.
 

GL Volkner

meet me in the afterglow
is a Tiering Contributor
Melmetal's stats just got released.

Melmetal: 135/143/143/080/065/034

To me this is huge, it'll probably replace Solgaleo and NDM as a RegenVester I feel. Having pure Steel, that godsend of a speed and that physical bulk is super huge; definitely gonna be the first pick I go to for a RegenVester in the tier.

What do you all think?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top