Singles 3v3 General Discussion

I've actually used this strategy, mainly as a way of cheesing a certain smogon.

I would have never known who is that smogon user huh. I want.to know was it bobo. Possibly some loser with the try hard name Monsareeasy. Devilican i pinged you because of how much I need to know!!!!!!!!! Pls tell me who soon. Ty!!!!!
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Monsareeasy said:
I've actually used this strategy, mainly as a way of cheesing a certain smogon.

I would have never known who is that smogon user huh. I want.to know was it bobo. Possibly some loser with the try hard name Monsareeasy. Devilican i pinged you because of how much I need to know!!!!!!!!! Pls tell me who soon. Ty!!!!!
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Bobochan refuses to play me.

He calls me Darth Ika like I am some sort of evil that needs vanquished.
 
Hey guys!! New team here! In an effort to appeal to both sides, I mixed some standard core goodstuffs with a little Machampy Togekissy memey goodness~<3

https://pokepast.es/ea8315a4afade3ee

I kinda wish I could run Helmet on Cune, and Lum Berry on Champ, but those dang Tapu's ya know?

EDIT #1: New team! Ghosties + Incineroar, I've learned that Mimikyu is just, waayyy too good. Like centralising the meta around her.

https://pokepast.es/e09426c1abacec07
 
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Since I'm bored and looking to stir up some discussion, I have a question for anyone who wants to answer it. It goes as follows:

List the Tapus in order (best -> worst) of how good they are in USUM Battle Spot Singles.

My personal opinion is: Fini > Lele > Koko >>>>> Bulu

(Though I constantly change the position of Koko and Lele in my head)
 
Devilican said:
Since I'm bored and looking to stir up some discussion, I have a question for anyone who wants to answer it. It goes as follows:

List the Tapus in order (best -> worst) of how good they are in USUM Battle Spot Singles.

My personal opinion is: Fini > Lele > Koko >>>>> Bulu

(Though I constantly change the position of Koko and Lele in my head)
Click to expand...
lele>fini>koko>bulu

(I may write.something else here later or not)
 
Devilican said:
Since I'm bored and looking to stir up some discussion, I have a question for anyone who wants to answer it. It goes as follows:

List the Tapus in order (best -> worst) of how good they are in USUM Battle Spot Singles.

My personal opinion is: Fini > Lele > Koko >>>>> Bulu

(Though I constantly change the position of Koko and Lele in my head)
Click to expand...

Lele > Fini > Koko > Bulu


Lele:
Severe enough offensive presence to merit consideration during team building, while still empowering neat offbeat stuff like Cloyster, Pheromosa, Blazikenpass and cool terrain-synergistic builds like Z-Psychic Volcarona or Psycho Cut Kartana. Since Lele's Scarf is the most popular item across all the tapus, barely ahead of Electrium-Z Koko, there's also some room in that department for greedy and creative players. Personally, bulky Specs and Sash/Psychium-Z Taunt lead have been fun as heck to pilot.


Fini:
It seems, to me at least, like defensive playstyles are overall some of the harder ones to pull off consistently in an environment inundated with degenerate sweepers of every imaginable make and model. Thus, I feel like Fini really delivers in that department because it is the tapu that probably rewards you the most for team building and game knowledge since you can fiddle with survivability to hit defensive berry ranges while still possessing enough native bulk to live an unboosted hit from almost anything even while running an offensive build, all the while carrying a 100%acc 95bp STAB move with a 30% chance of lowering the target's spatt (like, what?).


Koko:
Excellent speed tier but slightly underwhelming offensively. Still, I guess Koko remains objectively the best tapu if you look at usage stats alone, and there's even anecdotal evidence for it actively shaping the meta, to an extent, at least: I doubt I'm the only one who has started to run into the occasional Porygon2 armed with Return/Frustration to stop you gen3 Raikouing on it with Koko.

The vast, overwhelming amount of time you see Koko—and this is why I rate it below Lele and Fini—I feel it plays out disappointingly one-dimensionally: leveraging its speed tier as a fast Volt Switch with a big Z-move nuke in Z-Thunderbolt. Yeah you play it occasionally with rain Swampert, and cant say has demonstrated the hilarity of the Koko+Drifblimpass variety of Dual Screens+setup allinning on stream, but, I ask you, where's the guy that onetricks Surge Surfer + Eject Button/Golisopod to 2k every season? I need him in my life.


Bulu:
Not by any means saying Bulu isn't good, but it's just fundamentally not fun for me. You have these great defensive synergies (I love my boy Heatran), but you kind of either need to hit your predicts in order to gain any value from that offensive stat, or you're on a 130 base attack Leech Seed train. I would have to be building a team from scratch specifically around Bulu in order not to ask myself: "Wouldn't you just be better off using Ferrothorn for this?".
 
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Lele>Koko>Fini>Bulu.

Lele is so powerful, assuming it isn't locked in it can hurt everything a lot. Usually it will be but for good reason. Amazing w/ either relevant choice item, banning priority for a bit is really nice and since Tsareena and Bruxish aren't viable it's unique too. Great movepool, although too bad no Trick that's so fun.

Koko hits really hard...but only w/ electric moves. So a bit limited but it can also be physical, mixed, or screens. I always want something that beats Loom, or else stops Spore for the mon that does like this.

I'm not too keen on Fini. Good bulk but that 70 HP interferes. Stat wise it is inferior to Cresselia except 20 more SpA. Spe is same. Of the terrains I dislike misty most mainly because it doesn't boost Fini's power. No status is good but the cost is a viable Scald and Fini is ofc immune to dragon as is.

Bulu....well I've never used it but figure usage speaks for itself. It's way lower than the other Tapus. I guess it supports well w/ the terrain but thy all kinda do that. Not a good typing either.
 
I should preface my opinion in that I think that three of the four tapus are very close to each other in viability, which is why I thought it might be interesting to rank them.

Fini:

For me, the reason I've put Tapu Fini as the best is I think it's role is so pivotal in the meta. I've always been of the opinion that bulky offence, though only by a little bit, is probably the best style in BSS. Tapu Fini for me is a key part of bulky offence, generally combining everything you want from a great defensive backbone pokemon. It's typing is fantastic, allowing it to switch in and take a hit from Mega Salamence, Mega Blaziken, Charizard X, Mega Metagross, Mega Gyarados, Heatran, Celesteela and Mega Mawile, to name some top offensive threats. It is no slouch vs. defensive mons either, with access to taunt and natures madness, allowing it to potentially 1v1 pokemon like porygon2, aegislash and celesteela. It is very difficult to find a pokemon that can ohko fini without a boost. Even Specs Tapu Koko's thunderbolt in electric terrain, which you would think easily KOs only has a 6.3% chance of KOing max HP tapu fini, which fini can Ohko back with waterium. After Mimikyu, Greninja and Landorus-T, I think the next most splashable mon is Fini, you can't go wrong with it if you need a bulky water, it will put in work every single game because it can scrap with pretty much everything at least chipping off health.

Lele:

Lele for me is the second most important tapu in terms of teambuilding, but in a different way than Fini. Fini is like an answer to a wide variety of threats, almost filling a similar role to a rk mimikyu. Lele is like a mega salamence, something that you always have to keep in mind when building a team. Ever wonder why there is a steel type on practically every team? Yes, there is mega salamence, but pretty much its just for this one mon. Anything that isnt p2, snorlax or a steel type will pretty much drop to specs psychic and yes you can have dark types but they hate moonblast. Not much more to say about lele other than its psychic hits with the force of a freight train and its terrain is very useful for certain types of setup or psychic spam teams (with mega zam).

Koko:

Koko is very versatile, a fast taunter with momentum, shuts down breloom in particular and is decent versus quite a few greninja sets. Electrium-Z is a key set because without it or a choice specs, it can be a bit weak compared to a lot of pokemon on the battlespot, which is where I think its slightly worse than the other two. I do think that Koko is probably the most versatile of the three though, its support and setup sets in particular are all viable and very annoying to face.

Bulu:

Sorry bulu you are 4th. Not much to say but that you get ohkoed by all five of the best megas in the format and you are slow :(
 
okay time for the hottest take:

fini > lele > bulu > koko

this is based off my preference in using them. I don't know if I actually think Koko is the worst, but I definitely like using it the least, I find myself just choosing other electrics for that role unless I desperately need the speed.

I think I actually like using Bulu the most though, I think it's a legitimately good pick outside the well-known bulutran/bulupex/bulumeta/bulutar archetypes, even though my usage with it is primarily on those teams.

bulu beats all the other tapus 1v1 therefor it's the best

I definitely think Fini is the best. it's probably the easiest to fit on a team besides Porygon2
 
Haven't done this for a while, here's what's changed from S11 to the Present (All stats gotten off boe.github.io/bsus.html)

1. Mimikyu (=) (40.2% -> 37.1%)
2. Greninja (=) (27.2% -> 28.8%)
3. Landorus-T (=) (27.9% -> 27.1%)
4. Salamence (=) (24.9% -> 24.7%)
5. Charizard (=) (21.8% -> 24.2%)
6. Hippowdon (=) (18.6% -> 19.8%)
7. Tapu Koko (+1) (18.7% -> 19.3%)
8. Aegislash (+3) (15.6% -> 18.9%)
9. Metagross (-2) (18.5% -> 17.5%)
10. Tapu Fini (=) (17.3% -> 17.4%)
11. Tapu Lele (-2) (17.5% -> 16.8%)
12. Porygon2 (=) (15.4% -> 14.8%)
13. Gyarados (+1) (13.6% -> 13.7%)
14. Thundurus-T (+2) (11.1% -> 12.5%)
15. Blaziken (-2) (13.8% -> 12.4%)
16. Ferrothorn (+2) (9.8% -> 11.2%)
17. Gengar (-2) (11.7% -> 10.7%)
18. Breloom (+2) (9.3% -> 10.6%)
19. Heatran (=) (9.7% -> 10.5%)
20. Celesteela (-3) (10.7% -> 10.2%)
21. Naganadel (+1) (8.1% -> 7.8%)
22. Mawile (-1) (8.5% -> 7.7%)
23. Tyranitar (+2) (7.4% -> 7.5%)
24. Volcarona (=) (8.0% -> 7.1%)
25. Garchomp (+1) (7.0% -> 6.8%)
26. Gliscor (+3) (5.9% -> 6.6%)
27. Kartana (-4) (8.1% -> 6.6%)
28. Lucario (-1) (6.8% -> 6.5%)
29. Snorlax (+9) (4.4% -> 6.1%)
30. Kangaskhan (-1) (5.9% -> 6.0%)
31. Mamoswine (=) (5.4% -> 5.9%)
32. Rotom-H (=) (5.4% -> 5.7%)
33. Zapdos (-3) (5.7% -> 5.7%)
34. Excadrill (-1) (5.3% -> 5.4%)
35. Toxapex (+1) (4.6% -> 5.3%)
36. Skarmory (+9) (3.6% -> 4.8%)
37. Scizor (-3) (4.9% -> 4.7%)
38. Venusaur (=) (3.9% -> 4.4%)
39. Lopunny (+4) (3.7% -> 4.4%)
40. Swampert (-5) (4.7% -> 4.1%)
41. Pheromosa (=) (3.7% -> 3.8%)
42. Serperior (-5) (4.5% -> 3.7%)
43. Cresselia (-1) (3.9% -> 3.6%)
44. Azumarill (-4) (4.0% -> 3.5%)
45. Kommo-o (-6) (4.0% -> 3.4%)
46. Amoonguss (+8) (2.7% -> 3.0%)
47. Rotom-W (+1) (3.2% -> 3.0%)
48. Hydreigon (+3) (2.9% -> 2.9%)
49. Latias (+4) (2.8% -> 2.8%)
50. Suicune (-4) (3.5% -> 2.8%)

Biggest Risers (since end S11):

1. Aegislash (+3.3%)
2. Charizard (+2.4%)
3. Snorlax (+1.7%)
4. Greninja (+1.6%)

Honourable mentions:

5. Ferrothorn (+1.4%)
5. Skarmory (+1.4%)
7. Breloom (+1.3%)

Biggest Fallers:

1. Mimikyu (-3.1%)
2. Kartana (-1.5%)
3. Blaziken (-1.4%)
4. Gengar (-1.0%)
5. Volcarona (-0.9%)

Here I'm just going to briefly mention the major changes to the pokemon that are rising up the ranks and why I think they are rising or whether there has been any development in sets. Feel free to ignore all this, it's only for a minority who are interested and it my opinion in part.

Aegislash:

The major difference in Aegislash from S11 to S13 seems to be the increase of usage of quiet leftovers Aegislash, leftovers usage has gone up by around 8%, similarly with quiet nature and toxic. Quiet max hp max spa aegi allows for a simultaneous hard hitting shadow ball (able to ko Naganadel for example with shadow ball into sneak) whilst keeping the defensive utility of Aegi. The rise of Snorlax over the last four or five seasons is likely a factor in Aegislash usage rising. Although snorlax can deal with aegislash in certain cases, it does not appreciate aegislash at all.

Charizard:

The biggest thing to note for Charizard is the rise specifically in Charizard X. If one was to calculate the usage of Zard X and Zard Y between S11 and today it would be as follows:

Zard X: 10.59% -> 13.44%
Zard Y: 10.48% -> 10.76%

Zard X now is around 56% of all zards. SD Flame Charge Outrage Flare Blitz (over say EQ which has fallen in usage slightly) seems to be the most popular Zard X set atm and the one that has risen in usage. Perhaps 1/4 of Zard X's hold EQ. At least on nouthuca blogs from S12, both bulky zards and max atk max speed zards seem common.

Snorlax:

There's not much to say about snorlax other than people have started to realise that it is amazing. One thing to note on changes from S11 is the rise specifically of Double Edge on Snorlax from 5% to 18%. This is definitely something picking in popularity up on top Japanese blogs from S11/S12 and the reason for this is that one of the ways high level players would deal with snorlax is play around the 50% berry and then KO it with a boosted attack when snorlax is just over 50% health. Double edge means that you can control, to an extent, your berry procs and it also does a significant portion of damage to most opposing mons. Curse and yawning sets are both still around as popular, though whirlwind usage on lax has gone down. Something i've seen that's cool but uncommon on another note that is counter lax, which can soak up most physical hits and ohko most things due to its fat hp.

Greninja:

Not much significantly has changed about greninja other than it keeping on getting better and better. Protean Waterium-z has been rising in popularity slightly, as has taunt lead. It's probably gotten to its peak as it is.

Ferrothorn:

The major change is the rise of Curse + 50% berry sets which are a big pain to deal with without a fire move on your team.

Skarmory:

The major difference seems to be a significant rise of brave bird usage. Seems similar otherwise. A big factor likely is the rise of snorlax when the two really work well together, especially since skarmory can shut down a lot of the pokemon that annoy snorlax like breloom. Can't comment more than that since I don't know enough.

Breloom:

Basically it's doing the same thing it usually does, a big rise in SD loom and a matching fall in Rock Tomb is the major difference.
 
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No real impact on the meta of course, but I think it's funny that there was a rise in the use of Scarf Entei from S12 (2,4%) to S13 (15,28%). This is most likely due to the nouthuca Team Devilican translated a few posts above:

Link: http://soo-poke.hatenadiary.com/entry/usum-s12
Placing: 57th
Archetype: Mega Venusaur Balance (Had a scarf Entei)
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/8fbd090d9462e61e
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There is a little translation mistake in the pokepaste: It should be Iron Head instead of Iron Tail (while Iron Tail might be an interesting option for 0Hkoing Tapu Lele and Mimikyu). I played a little bit with this team this Season and got to 1700 with it. The combination of Torrent-Sash-Greninja and Entei is really fun to play with.
 
Yea it should be Iron Head, I probably put it in as Iron Tail by mistake as I've done these quickly. I've edited the pokepaste. The guy says that Entei is also good paired with Venusaur due to being able to check mega metagross, tapu koko and volcarona whilst also burning mence switchins with sacred fire.
 
Sad to see the ladder and the meta kind of dead, looking forward to gen 8 and a revamp in new teams and ideas. BSS is the only competitive tier I enjoy but after reaching the top a few times and seeing the same teams everywhere it gets boring unfortunately.
 
michael calicchio said:
Sad to see the ladder and the meta kind of dead, looking forward to gen 8 and a revamp in new teams and ideas. BSS is the only competitive tier I enjoy but after reaching the top a few times and seeing the same teams everywhere it gets boring unfortunately.
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You should try find people in the battlespot room to play friendlies with or go on the cartridge ladder. Often on the top of the showdown ladder, you will only be matched with a few people in a session and there is definitely an element of counterteaming and scouting up there. It's just the way it is that the ladder is not too active, especially if you want 1600+ games. I do think there is plenty of variety of teams in the gen 7 BSS meta, just look at http://nouthuca.com/topic/?code=g7s12single for example for the variety of top teams from Season 12.
 
michael calicchio said:
Sad to see the ladder and the meta kind of dead, looking forward to gen 8 and a revamp in new teams and ideas. BSS is the only competitive tier I enjoy but after reaching the top a few times and seeing the same teams everywhere it gets boring unfortunately.
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try playing the ladder on your 3DS. it's always competitive and never dead. If you need help getting the Pokemon you need then try asking in our discord (there's a thread with a link in this forum, on mobile so not doing it myself atm), the showdown room, or grabbing some pokemon from the wifi giveaway forum.
 
This is just one of the times I hit number one on the ladder for BSS here , I think it’s just more if I’m over seeing the same teams haha. But also if anyone needs any help with this format I’d be glad to give any advice!
 

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Ah I've played you a few times I think on Ika Ika Musume or one of my Ika alts. I don't ladder too much though past 1500 or so, try and get more friendlies.
 
I have a question. I was interested in making a rain team with pelippe/mega swampert but most rain teams suggest politoed and kingdra. Does anyone know why that is? I thought swampert would be good when going against a tapu koko but perhaps the dragons like salamence are more dangerous??
 
Xunde said:
I have a question. I was interested in making a rain team with pelippe/mega swampert but most rain teams suggest politoed and kingdra. Does anyone know why that is? I thought swampert would be good when going against a tapu koko but perhaps the dragons like salamence are more dangerous??
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Most rain teams are going to use rain setter + M-Pert over Kingdra. We have the one sample team with Poli/Kingdra but most of the time you'll see M-Pert on rain teams. The real flexibility on rain teams is on your choice of setter and your non-rain mode. Politoed provides a bit more team support with moves like Encore and Perish Song, but Pelipper has a better typing and offensive options for things that threaten rain such as Hurricane for M-Venu and slow U-turn to bring in M-Pert safely.
 
chemcoop said:
Most rain teams are going to use rain setter + M-Pert over Kingdra. We have the one sample team with Poli/Kingdra but most of the time you'll see M-Pert on rain teams. The real flexibility on rain teams is on your choice of setter and your non-rain mode. Politoed provides a bit more team support with moves like Encore and Perish Song, but Pelipper has a better typing and offensive options for things that threaten rain such as Hurricane for M-Venu and slow U-turn to bring in M-Pert safely.
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Thanks. What are the situations where you would use another mega like salamence in a rain team?
 
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