What happened to bulky waters since BW2? Also, I'm horrified at Jellicent's current tiering, what happened to my jelly boi? Same with Hydreigon.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
Jellicent really dislikes the current meta tbh, as Kartana, Bulu, Koko and Ash Greninja are almost garanteed to be in teams. Power Creep hit hard the not-so bulky mons that used to reside in Gen5's OU, such as Slowbro, Amoonguss and Tentacruel, as really strong wallbreakers such as the aformentioned threats, as well as other such as Supersonic Skystrike Landorus-T, Inferno Overdrive Heatran, or just Z-moves in general are common sights.
Hydreigon has a quad-weakness to Fairy, and in a tier where defensive Fairies such as Magearna, Clefable and Tapu Fini are common there's almost to no place for a dragon which both STAB are resisted or absorbed by it's main weakness. However, although isn't OU by usage, it has a justificable niche in the meta: It's typing, paired with Levitate let's Hydrei soft check Ash Greninja and Heatran, and strike back with Dark Pulse, Earth Power or Flash Cannon, powered by a Metronome, or the more common Darkinium Z. As a bonus, it outspeeds Tapu Lele and Kyurem Black.
Bulky waters are still pretty prevalent and are likely going to be as long as the games fundamentals dont change. Toxapex is pretty big and is the strongest addition from SM on the defensive spectrum and nearly a staple on Balance. Rotom-W is still pretty good as a pivot and its access to Defog now has helped it combat power creep. Other bulky waters such as Gastrodon and Mantine see sporadic use in some specific teams but aren’t generally as good as Toxapex. Jellicent’s most important trait in BW as a Spinblocker is almost completely useless in SM and its passivity and lack of Regenerator make it undesirable when compared to other bulky Waters. Hydreigon still sees niche play due to its useful typing but Dragon-types in general took a hit from the introduction of Fairy-types, combined with power creep it’s not easy to justify on a team
You're both being banished to the shadow realm for your nonsense.
Also yes - Toxapex having moves, ability, and typing that is more flexible as far as being a bulky Water-type really helps set it apart from the others.
As far as Hydreigon - still not bad. Has some niches against Heatran to some extent, but it's definitely taken a nasty hit with the revelation of Fairy-types.
Also yes - Toxapex having moves, ability, and typing that is more flexible as far as being a bulky Water-type really helps set it apart from the others.
As far as Hydreigon - still not bad. Has some niches against Heatran to some extent, but it's definitely taken a nasty hit with the revelation of Fairy-types.
But out of all the Fairy-types in OU, Tapu Koko, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Diancie are the only ones that naturally outspeed Hydreigon, and Hydreigon has moves to deal with Fairy-types (Flash Cannon, Gunk Shot, Belch).
Last edited:
1)
2) Belch requires a Z Crystal (or berry) to work
3) While Flash Cannon is okay and Hydreigon normally outspeeds a lot of the fairies, it usually needed Modest for some reliable 2HKOes and thus risks being outsped by Tapu Lele as well. Theres also Fini which can take just about any attack + a Flash Cannon and threaten Hydreigon with Moonblast.
Last edited:
In addition to what's already been said, av Magearna and Diance Mega(the latter of which outspeeds naturally) are also able to threaten Hydreigon. . While webs isn't used much and Rimbombee and Hydreigon will rarely be a situation where this is relevant, Rimbombee does outspeed and ohko Hydreigon.
You could use Earth Power for Tapu Koko and Mega Diancie. Koko is neutral to Flash Cannon and it still hits Diancie for super effective damage (unfortunately not for quad damage). Besides, Earth Power would be better for other Pokemon like Heatran.
Mega Gardevoir is not relevant in the metagame so there's no big deal there.
Is there a „good“ Team featuring LO Clefable or the combi of Mawile and Ash Ninja?
If im not to dumb, I didnt found one in the sample Teams.
If im not to dumb, I didnt found one in the sample Teams.
I have one team w/ LO Clef, don't know if it's that good though. https://pokepast.es/60a761ee94e516d0
how are u?
ok so i saw this question posed in the ou discord so figured i may as well rephrase and ask it here: what ou by usage mon is in your opinion the worst mon of the tier and why
Why doesn't Psychic Terrain block non-damaging priority moves such as Protect?
in fact psychic terrain doesn't block priority moves, it protects the grounded target from being affected by targeted priority moves, which is a great difference.
Since protect doesn't neither target nor affect the opposing pokemon it isn't block, on the other end, moves like prankster will o wisp or taunt or what ever will be blocked.
In my opinion, it's Skarmory. This mon is terribly outclassed by other defensive Steel-types, namely Celesteela, and fits only onto a small amount of teams, if even fits. Yeah it does have nice physical bulk, access to Roost, Defog, and hazards but only for these reasons it's still ranked. These things aren't enough to have more niche over Celesteela outside of completely walling a couple physical threats. Fuck why do ppl use Skarmory so much that it's still OU?
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited:
What's the difference between a C and a C+ Poke in the Viability Rankings?
There's a small difference in viability. This can be for various reasons, like splashability, meta shifts, new team structures etc. However, I feel like the current C+ rank is pretty inaccurate, apart from Mega Gallade and maybe Terrakion, these Pokemon in C+ really shouldn't be C+, whereas Pokemon like Kommo-o, Mega Aggron etc. should be. The whole C rank is, imo, definitely due for a complete revision.
Agreed, thanks for answering
What mons do you think are in the C rank that are ready for a bump up to C+?
Katy
Banned deucer.
I think Mega Aggron, Kommo-O, Garchomp-Mega are the three main ones I can see should be more C+ than C. I feel like C undersells these three mons quite a bit, but more to that should be imho posted in the OU VR post itself. But yeah these are the 3 main ones in my opinion.
I think that Mega Aggron and Kommo-o should rise to C+. Volcanion and Bisharp should definitely drop from C+ to C or maybe even lower in Volcanion's case. I think that Mega Charizard Y, Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, and Pyukumuku fit into C+ a lot better right now. I'm aware that I didn't mention Mega Garchomp, but I have good reason for that, being that it should be B/B+ rather than C+.