SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!

[Melons-N-Soda]

So Cottonee got in but Petilil's line is out?

Jokes aside when it comes to a side meta I personally wouldn't mind the 402 Galar format but it still really really sucks for many other reasons that people have already gone over in all corners of the internet.

I could make speculation of what otherwise bad mons in Gen 7 OU could be viable in the 402 format (Conkeldurr for example), but again there's the 80-ish new mons to deal with and how good they'll be remains to be seen.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

In 7th gen OU there are around 100 Pokemon with viable niches. Then you need to consider the fun of casual gimmicks. Cutting Pokemon does not make a metagame better. Advance OU only had 27 Pokemon in it so I guess we can look forward to a nice boring centralized meta full of the same two dozen mons trying to avoid getting swept by a Dynamax. Gen 8 looks like garbage.

I don't understand the logic of "limited dex is good for competitive" maybe if you play only OU, but eventually you'll use the same rotation of 12 pokemon or so, doesn't matter if its 900 or 400 pokemon. More options for the lower tiers never hurt for those who are bored of OU.

It's not an uncommon opinion that Gen 7 OU is a mess, specifically because of how many dangerous Pokemon there are. The sheer amount of threats means you can't possibly cover every option, so being fucked at team preview isn't uncommon. This is further compounded by Z-moves, which allows Pokemon to bust through would-be checks. For example, Zapdos is a great Kartana answer... until Kartana whips out the Breakneck Blitz.

Many of those dangerous Pokemon have been cut, so you don't have as many bases to cover while teambuilding. Additionally, because Dynamaxing exists outside of the team builder, you can't get screwed just because your opponent brought just the right thing.

 

[earl]

Gen 3 is not a comparable gen because at the time gen 3 was released it was the most Pokemon, and most varied meta we had ever known. Gen 3 was a step forward from gen 3.

Going from gen 7 to gen 3 levels of Pokemon is a step backwards.

Ok, but these tiers will still exist. I wasn’t arguing they would be more varied or whatever

 

[Count Bleck]

So it's actually getting even worse of a shitmon since Groudon got cut

Except you know, any pokemon with a fire attack can set up sun within seconds by dynamaxing...

 

[dodiabla]

So quick competitive question:

Which of the known Pokémon will benefit from G-Wheezing’s Neutralizing Gas ability?

 

[LordHelix]

Big Lol at all the people on twitter and shit thinking their favourites are gonna be viable just because chomp or heatran or whatever left. Less options = less counterplay.

Whats ur Toxapex tspikes counter? Theres like 5 mons in the game that actually can 2hko pex, and no mon can remove hazards on it safely

Cm twave Clef is now back on the menu with less counterplay, mag is gone, heatran is gone, celesteela is gone, jirachi is gone..etc

Why would u use any other defensive grass or steel over Ferrothorn? It has so little competition now and it beats literally every hazard remover weve seen so far. Why use the sinful rolycoly evo or the other rock when u still have banded ttar?

The only new faces ull see in ou are the ones that were borderline good or almost good. Like diggersby, haxorus, lucario and such.

None of ur favourite bad mons will suddenly see usage just because the some of the top mons left, if anything all that happens is the other top mons that survived become even better. Like clefable and pex benefit a hell of a lot from all these removals

Edit:

I don't understand the logic of "limited dex is good for competitive" maybe if you play only OU, but eventually you'll use the same rotation of 12 pokemon or so, doesn't matter if its 900 or 400 pokemon. More options for the lower tiers never hurt for those who are bored of OU.

Say it louder for the people in the back please, uu and ru are destroyed

 

[ShiaHatoAttaku]

I know we got a lot of cool bugs but damn, RIP to Scyther, Scizor, Heracross, and Pinsir. The OG good bugs. Is this the first time, bar BW, that Heracross is not available in the regional dex?

And RIP the queen Volcarona.

I would say Bug got an equivalent exchange, although it's subjective seeing how a lot of cool mons got dropped.
No more Scizor, but the stage opens up for Escavalier and Durant.
No more Volcarona, but Centiskorch comes in with the same typing, who knows, maybe with Speed Boost as well to fill for Scolipede.
No more Heracross, but have two more unique type combinations with Orbeetle and Frosmoth.
Shedinja made it, Accelgor made it, Galvantula and Vikavolt made it, Shuckle and Crustle made it, Golisopod and Araquanid made it, Ribombee made it.
Almost all of the Bug/Flying types got dropped outside of Butterfree for obvious reasons, Ninjask and Vespiquen.
Overall, Bug certainly lost iconic mons, but got potentially awesome mons in exchange, while keeping a healthy amount of cool mons as well. A better situation compared to my mono Fighting issue.

 

[earl]

Big Lol at all the people on twitter and shit thinking their favourites are gonna be viable just because chomp or heatran or whatever left. Less options = less counterplay.

Whats ur Toxapex tspikes counter? Theres like 5 mons in the game that actually can 2hko pex, and no mon can remove hazards on it safely

Cm twave Clef is now back on the menu with less counterplay, mag is gone, heatran is gone, celesteela is gone, jirachi is gone..etc

Why would u use any other defensive grass or steel over Ferrothorn? It has so little competition now and it beats literally every hazard remover weve seen so far. Why use the sinful rolycoly evo or the other rock when u still have banded ttar?

The only new faces ull see in ou are the ones that were borderline good or almost good. Like diggersby, haxorus, lucario and such.

None of ur favourite bad mons will suddenly see usage just because the some of the top mons left, if anything all that happens is the other top mons that survived become even better. Like clefable and pex benefit a hell of a lot from all these removals

Edit:


Say it louder for the people in the back please, uu and ru are destroyed

Banning exists, you know. If Toxapex, an S rank threat, is overbearing in the lower power meta we can ban it

 

[Count Bleck]

I don't understand the logic of "limited dex is good for competitive" maybe if you play only OU, but eventually you'll use the same rotation of 12 pokemon or so, doesn't matter if its 900 or 400 pokemon. More options for the lower tiers never hurt for those who are bored of OU.

GF has little interest in catering to singles, as their official competitive format is vgc. Theyve already been playing limit3d dex formats for years now, this will be no different.

 

[Mubs]

I'm personally both saddened and happy by the pokemon that are shown to be confirmed, but one quick question:

I was held to the belief that LGPE mons were able to be transfered to SwSh due to PH, but that would mean all gen 1 mons are confirmed, which doesn't seem to be the case. But that rises the question: What about pokemon home? if its coming out in 2020 and you cant transfer to swsh (from lgpe), why would it be released in 2020?

 

[Shadowmax]

XY also had only 3 - but yeah, the mythical situation is weird

Well that was understandable guiven that BW have 10 legendaries with 6 alternative forms to those. SwSh is very lacking in legendaries with only 3

 

[lydian]

honestly, yall shouldnt be talking about competitive this early. if we even knew the stats and abilities of the new mons that'd be something but we don't even have that info! you can theorymon as much as you want about dexit but i'll only come to a conclusion once i see it in action. there are so many factors that you really cant predict all this shit after thinking 3 minutes about it in the shower. just my two cents.

 

[Sirya]

Big Lol at all the people on twitter and shit thinking their favourites are gonna be viable just because chomp or heatran or whatever left. Less options = less counterplay.

Whats ur Toxapex tspikes counter? Theres like 5 mons in the game that actually can 2hko pex, and no mon can remove hazards on it safely

Cm twave Clef is now back on the menu with less counterplay, mag is gone, heatran is gone, celesteela is gone, jirachi is gone..etc

Why would u use any other defensive grass or steel over Ferrothorn? It has so little competition now and it beats literally every hazard remover weve seen so far. Why use the sinful rolycoly evo or the other rock when u still have banded ttar?

The only new faces ull see in ou are the ones that were borderline good or almost good. Like diggersby, haxorus, lucario and such.

None of ur favourite bad mons will suddenly see usage just because the some of the top mons left, if anything all that happens is the other top mons that survived become even better. Like clefable and pex benefit a hell of a lot from all these removals

Edit:


Say it louder for the people in the back please, uu and ru are destroyed

Instead of complaining give us solutions, Lord Helix.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Well that was understandable guiven that BW have 10 legendaries with 6 alternative forms to those. SwSh is very lacking in legendaries with only 3

Yeah that's true. However we don't know how many mythicals there will be, I'm sure there will be some in the cards. Remember that Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion were not known until some time after X and Y released and it will likely take some more elaborate datamining to uncover the mythicals. I have heard rumors about at least one mythical in Sword and Shield, however, we likely won't be able to uncover the mythicals until after Sword and Shield come out. It'll take at least a year for Game Freak to acknowledge said mythicals as well.

honestly, yall shouldnt be talking about competitive this early. if we even knew the stats and abilities of the new mons that'd be something but we don't even have that info! you can theorymon as much as you want about dexit but i'll only come to a conclusion once i see it in action. there are so many factors that you really cant predict all this shit after thinking 3 minutes about it in the shower. just my two cents.

This. At this point in time it's impossible to predict what will happen. We need to wait for Sword and Shield to release and for the Gen 8 OU metagame to come into existence and give it time to develop to see what will happen. Competitive metagame development is extremely complicated and every Pokemon's viability or power alongside how a metagame is like is shaped by a multitude of different factors (something that can be understood after playing competitive for many years), so it's highly uncertain how the Gen 8 OU meta will be shaped as of now. One thing's certain is that it will likely be very different from the OU meta of the past two/three gens but right now we can't be certain seeing as how the metagame not only doesn't exist yet but also has not developed in any capacity.

 

[Donki Knog]

I just recieved this mail:

 

[Lord Godwin]

Any info on the Gigantomax forms?

 

[Martin]

Is there a way they could nerf Toxapex without changing its stats, like what if they replaced Recover with Aqua Ring? If the problem is Baneful Bunker, make it only affect moves that make Contact (that way Earthquake and Special Psychic-type moves will still affect it)?

Changing movepools is off the table bc of Pokémon Home existing. The problem is that the combination of Regenerator+min-maxed defensive stats+typing (ft. poison immunity)+Haze+range of other utility options is flat out broken in a 6v6 singles setting, so short of outright changing its base stats and/or removing its access to Regenerator there is no way in hell this Pokemon will ever be healthy or balanced, and any format featuring it will likely be dull as all shit because you have a defensive option that is completely devoid of any meaningful downsides.

 

[Chanderule]

How do you think will NOU shake up with new faces? Grimmsnarl has potential I think, so does Dracapult (being the pseudo- obviously)

 

[MrHands]

It's not an uncommon opinion that Gen 7 OU is a mess, specifically because of how many dangerous Pokemon there are. The sheer amount of threats means you can't possibly cover every option, so being fucked at team preview isn't uncommon. This is further compounded by Z-moves, which allows Pokemon to bust through would-be checks. For example, Zapdos is a great Kartana answer... until Kartana whips out the Breakneck Blitz.

Many of those dangerous Pokemon have been cut, so you don't have as many bases to cover while teambuilding. Additionally, because Dynamaxing exists outside of the team builder, you can't get screwed just because your opponent brought just the right thing.

It's mostly due to Z moves and possibly the snowball nature of Beast Boost, Soul Heart, Contrary, and Moxie. Combine Z moves to get a free kill with an ability that rakes in free stat boosts and you have a powerful, fast meta that can be decided by just clicking buttons.

Removing Z moves would have been enough to lower the power level of the game.

 

[Ditto]

removing its access to Regenerator

They did remove Shadow Tag from Chandelure in a generational switch, so it's not unheard of.

 

[SergioRules]

"I'm sorry, you cannot transfer this Farfetch'd into Pokemon HOME because it has an illegal move(s): First Impression. If you continue trying to transfer this Pokemon the illegal move(s) will be deleted. Continue this Pokemon's transfer into Pokemon HOME?"

Is this confirmed or are you just assuming?

 

[Merritt]

They did remove Shadow Tag from Chandelure in a generational switch, so it's not unheard of.

Bad example, HA Chandelure was never released in gen 5 (same with Zapdos). Better one is Scolipede.

Even better of course is Gengar's loss of Levitate in exchange for Cursed Body.

 

[Theorymon]

Changing movepools is off the table bc of Pokémon Home existing.

I feel like we shouldn't be taking this for granted. None of us predicted Dexit happening. There's nothing saying Pokemon Home HAS to retain the moves brought over from Pokebank. For all we know, Gamefreak could do a hard reset on moves too.

Obviously its too early to speculate competitively without a datamine barring some fun thought experiemnts (basically what Im doing over on the Smogon discord atm lol), but I think if this gen has taught us anything, its that theres no sacred cows here (outside of maybe Pikachu and Charizard lol). I think once we get the datamine, its best we just take everything at face value until things get clarified in the future, such as how Pokemon Home works.

 

[LordHelix]

Instead of complaining give us solutions, Lord Helix.

?? Im wasnt complaining, im just telling people that previously bad mons wont suddenly be good because of a limited dex because alot of people believe that

Banning exists, you know. If Toxapex, an S rank threat, is overbearing in the lower power meta we can ban it

True but defensive threats are rarely banned and council has been very complacent this gen so itll be a while before anything is decided. Besides i dont think pex is broken, i was just giving examples of mons that are gonna be strong

honestly, yall shouldnt be talking about competitive this early. if we even knew the stats and abilities of the new mons that'd be something but we don't even have that info! you can theorymon as much as you want about dexit but i'll only come to a conclusion once i see it in action. there are so many factors that you really cant predict all this shit after thinking 3 minutes about it in the shower. just my two cents.

Im not predicting the meta, im just saying good mons will still be good and bad mons will probably stay bad so people shouldnt celebrate that much.

U wont suddenly start seeing Turtonator and Rapidash in OU cause Zard x and Tapu Lele are gone, there is so many other reasons why theyre bad aside from being outclassed

And lets be real, you dont need to predict that previous OU staples are gonna stay OU staples in a much lower power level

 

[Sirya]

?? Im wasnt complaining, im just telling people that previously bad mons wont suddenly be good because of a limited dex because alot of people believe that

I was joking with the Helix from TPP D: