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★ np SS UU Stage 0 - All I Want for Christmas is UU (UU Alpha is live!)
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Pierschads rise up!
Niche cancer mon discussion:
Shedinja is probably going to be worse in a post-Dynamax metagame, despite being a terrible Dynamax user by itself (doesn’t even get 2 HP ffs). Dynamax was a very abusable mechanic for Shedinja, in the sense that by being immune to most Max moves, it could pretty easily prevent snowballs by a lot of mons. Type immunities prevented Max effects from activating. For example, Mamoswine’s Max Hailstorm used against Shedinja would not set hail. Shedinja could stall out sweepers’ turns by, for instance, swapping in on a predicted Max Knuckle, Ooze, Geyser, etc. to prevent the boost and completely waste one turn of the opponent’s Dynamax. They were then forced to use a max move Shedinja was weak to, which could be exploitable by Sheddy’s teammates. So I would say Shedinja won’t be as useful in a post-Dynamax meta, but I guess we’ll have to see.
Trapinch, on the other hand, will be better. It can more reliably live hits and get kills without resorting to switching out to hopefully bait out the Dynamax, and coming in again later. It pretty reliably traps a number of the tier’s Dark- and Electric-types if it gets a free switch-in, which Teleport Xatu enjoys facilitating.
Shedinja is probably going to be worse in a post-Dynamax metagame, despite being a terrible Dynamax user by itself (doesn’t even get 2 HP ffs). Dynamax was a very abusable mechanic for Shedinja, in the sense that by being immune to most Max moves, it could pretty easily prevent snowballs by a lot of mons. Type immunities prevented Max effects from activating. For example, Mamoswine’s Max Hailstorm used against Shedinja would not set hail. Shedinja could stall out sweepers’ turns by, for instance, swapping in on a predicted Max Knuckle, Ooze, Geyser, etc. to prevent the boost and completely waste one turn of the opponent’s Dynamax. They were then forced to use a max move Shedinja was weak to, which could be exploitable by Sheddy’s teammates. So I would say Shedinja won’t be as useful in a post-Dynamax meta, but I guess we’ll have to see.
Trapinch, on the other hand, will be better. It can more reliably live hits and get kills without resorting to switching out to hopefully bait out the Dynamax, and coming in again later. It pretty reliably traps a number of the tier’s Dark- and Electric-types if it gets a free switch-in, which Teleport Xatu enjoys facilitating.
Well, just had a concept for a Claydol set that might bring doom to any opponent who underestimates it, I'll present you:
"Pot of Greed"
Claydol @ Weakness Policy or Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power / Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Power Split / Protect
- Body Press
"The best offense is a good defense", or so it was translated in the metagame when it comes to stalling. Well, now it seems that there is an alternative yet distinct new translation of it, a term closer to being literally it, and such thing came in the form of Body Press. Body Press, similar to Foul Play, it's a physical move that uses a stat other than your Attack, in this case, Claydol will be using all of its Defense not only to take hits but to also to hit back with it as its physical damage output. Claydol got access to Stored Power and, with its myriad of weaknesses, we can optionally add Weakness Policy into the equation for free boosts to feed up Stored Power, with Cosmic Power to boost your defensive stats even further or Calm Mind if want to run Leftovers instead (or if you want to boost SpA very quickly nor you don't mind having 2 fewer stat boosts in total sum, you can combine CM with Weakness Policy). Power Split is your key to punish either Physical or Special powerhouses, with the latter being additional fuel to your Stored power aside from the stat boosts, and yes, Power Split bypasses Magic Bounce, Hyper Cutter, Defiant, Competitive or any ability that triggers when you usually try to lower your opponent's stats. If you're not greedy for power and want some turns for recovery, you can opt for Protect when using Leftovers.
There are some issues, however. Suffering a ton of different weaknesses and Weakness Policy sets don't have any recovery at all. With Dynamax now banned, you cannot get boosts from the Attack stat with Max Knuckle to add it to the total sum of stat boosts for Stored Power. Critical-hits will break this pot apart, especially Sniper users like Drapion (and Intelleon in the near future). Speaking of Drapion, Toxic users like Drapion, Quagsire and Milotic will shorten Claydol's longevity that otherwise would be needed in order to boost its stats. Weavile, Shiftry and Crawdaunt are immune to Stored Power and can hit super-effectively with both their STAB moves, but they must be worried about getting mauled by Body Press. Knock Off deals super-effective damage while discarding Leftovers and getting a boost while doing so, however, using Knock Off on a Weakness Policy will activate it first, so be careful. Anyone using Darkest Lariat like Rillaboom or Dusknoir will hit hard while ignoring Claydol's stat boosts on its Defense (other users of that move have to worry about Body Press or Stored Power in Machamp's case). Quagsire can hit hard with Liquidation as it hits through Claydol's ignored boosts thanks to Unaware, except if Claydol has fed itself from a previous Special powerhouse via Power Split, as well as the stat boosts still count for Stored Power's base power boost. Malamar with Topsy Turvy completely shuts down this set or any other set featuring Stored Power to easily OHKO it or force it to switch out, same as for Grappleoct using Octoblock as it will take away Cosmic Power boosts and even further trap Claydol (but worries about switching into it an already boosted Claydol, as Stored Power will land a super-effective hit).
"Pot of Greed"
Claydol @ Weakness Policy or Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power / Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Power Split / Protect
- Body Press
"The best offense is a good defense", or so it was translated in the metagame when it comes to stalling. Well, now it seems that there is an alternative yet distinct new translation of it, a term closer to being literally it, and such thing came in the form of Body Press. Body Press, similar to Foul Play, it's a physical move that uses a stat other than your Attack, in this case, Claydol will be using all of its Defense not only to take hits but to also to hit back with it as its physical damage output. Claydol got access to Stored Power and, with its myriad of weaknesses, we can optionally add Weakness Policy into the equation for free boosts to feed up Stored Power, with Cosmic Power to boost your defensive stats even further or Calm Mind if want to run Leftovers instead (or if you want to boost SpA very quickly nor you don't mind having 2 fewer stat boosts in total sum, you can combine CM with Weakness Policy). Power Split is your key to punish either Physical or Special powerhouses, with the latter being additional fuel to your Stored power aside from the stat boosts, and yes, Power Split bypasses Magic Bounce, Hyper Cutter, Defiant, Competitive or any ability that triggers when you usually try to lower your opponent's stats. If you're not greedy for power and want some turns for recovery, you can opt for Protect when using Leftovers.
There are some issues, however. Suffering a ton of different weaknesses and Weakness Policy sets don't have any recovery at all. With Dynamax now banned, you cannot get boosts from the Attack stat with Max Knuckle to add it to the total sum of stat boosts for Stored Power. Critical-hits will break this pot apart, especially Sniper users like Drapion (and Intelleon in the near future). Speaking of Drapion, Toxic users like Drapion, Quagsire and Milotic will shorten Claydol's longevity that otherwise would be needed in order to boost its stats. Weavile, Shiftry and Crawdaunt are immune to Stored Power and can hit super-effectively with both their STAB moves, but they must be worried about getting mauled by Body Press. Knock Off deals super-effective damage while discarding Leftovers and getting a boost while doing so, however, using Knock Off on a Weakness Policy will activate it first, so be careful. Anyone using Darkest Lariat like Rillaboom or Dusknoir will hit hard while ignoring Claydol's stat boosts on its Defense (other users of that move have to worry about Body Press or Stored Power in Machamp's case). Quagsire can hit hard with Liquidation as it hits through Claydol's ignored boosts thanks to Unaware, except if Claydol has fed itself from a previous Special powerhouse via Power Split, as well as the stat boosts still count for Stored Power's base power boost. Malamar with Topsy Turvy completely shuts down this set or any other set featuring Stored Power to easily OHKO it or force it to switch out, same as for Grappleoct using Octoblock as it will take away Cosmic Power boosts and even further trap Claydol (but worries about switching into it an already boosted Claydol, as Stored Power will land a super-effective hit).
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Finally Dynamax is banned, we can now play a real tier without a broken and dumb mechanic.. but first let's see which are the winners and losers as a result of this ban !
The losers
Max Airstream abuser of obviously the biggest losers in this story because they can't boost their speed anymore which is annoying because the speed in boost was the main thing which allows them to snowball and to go rampage against opponent's Pokemon/Team. Charizard is particularly affected by this ban since its only viable set depended entirely on the Dynamax mechanic which allows it to setup its own Sun and boost its Speed. This ban also impact Rotom-Fan which was able to use Nasty Plot then Dynamax to use Max Airstream. It's also to a lesser extent a bit annoying for Pokemon like Mew, Intelegon, Diggersby or Sirfetch'd.. which were using Max Airstream to boost their speed. However it was more used for the boost than for some real damages and they're still viable even without Max Airstream.
Choiced locked Pokemon valued the Dynamax mechanic since it allows them to unlock from their Choice item which was really useful if they want to get rid of a special threat or an annoying Pokemon. It also forced some 50/50 when players were in front of Choice locked Pokemon because they had to think about the opportunity of those Pokemon to unlock thanks to Dynamax. As a result, Pokemon like Boltund, Braviary, Gengar, Indeedee or Inteleon kinda regret this ban. Now we don't have to scout anymore, if a Pokemon is locked, it will stayed locked for the rest of match unless you're using Knock Off on it !
Setup Sweepers in general could abuse of the Dynamax because it allows them to hit super hard or setup even more (with either Max Knuckle, Max Ooze or Max Airstream). Pokemon like DD / SD Mew were able to snowball thanks to Max Mindstorm or Max Knuckle. On the other hand Gengar was able to boost its special attack thanks to Max Ooze which was deadly thanks to the gain of bulk provided by Dynamax. There was a plethora of Pokemon which could abuse of this like Shell Smash users such as Barbaracle, Cloyster or Polteageist, Clangerous Soul Kommo-o or No Retreat Falinks. Durant is another Pokemon which was a great user of Dynamax since it allows it to abuse of its ability Hustle without the fear of missing an attack. We can also talk about Weather teams such as Sun teams and Rain teams which may be nerfed by this ban since Dynamax allowed Pokemon to setup the weather but overall I think they're still viable archetypes.
The winners
As I said in a previous post, I strongly believe that Obstagoon is one of the major winner of the Dynamax ban. Dynamax was a mechanic which was able to greatly boost the bulk of its users which allows them to handle way more attacks than in their normal form. As a result, a lot of Pokemon were able to handle Obstagoon's hits thanks to Dynamax and retaliate back which wasn't a good thing at all for Obstagoon since it forces it to take some extra damages. Now than Dynamax is gone, Obstagoon is going to be a great powerhouse able to act as a great Wallbreaker thanks to Guts or Guts + Bulk Up while being able to be a Stallbreaker thanks to Taunt. This Pokemon is going to be great for sure !
Like Obstagoon strong hiters are going to be really good in this new metagame. I can definitively see Nasty Plot or Choice Specs Gengar being really hard to handle since Dynamax is now banned and there isn't anymore Pursuit in the game. The tier doesn't have a lot of Ghost resistances so it's going to be really hard to handle this Pokemon. Even Umbreon will need to be careful because Specs Focus Blast or +2 Focus Blast / Dazzling Gleam are going to do a shit load of damages to it. On the other hand, Frosmoth is a great setup Sweepers thanks to Quiver Dance. Even if it struggles to break Steel-types it's a dangerous sweeper which can tears apart some defensive core with Hippowdon, Umbreon or Weezing-Galar. Also there isn't a lot of great Steel-types in the tier due to / thanks to (pick the one you like the most) dexit. Steelix doesn't like Ice Beam because of its Ground-type while Bronzong doesn't enjoy a boosted Bug Buzz due to its Psychic-type (40-48% at +1). However, Escavalier, Copperajah and Doublade looks good vs the frozen moth. While strong special hitters looks nice, it's also the case of physical powerhouse like Bewear, Diggersby and Sirfetch'd which all like the overall bulk debuff induced by the ban of Dynamax. Since all of them have access to Swords Dance and great STAB, they can all be great vs some defensive staples such as Umbreon, Avalugg or Hippowdon.
Whimsicott enjoys a looooot the ban of Dynamax since it can now freely abuse of its Prankster ability and in particular "Encore" which allows it to bother quite a lot setup Sweepers and defensive foes by locking them in a status move. Because Dynamax was able to bypass mechanic such as "Encore", Whimsicott wasn't able to stop Dynamax set-up Sweeper but now it's not anymore an issue for it ! Since it also has some great move thanks to Tailwind, U-turn, Moonblast or Memento, I can definitively see my fluffy boy become a really nice and useful tool in the tier.
Defensive staples can freely take a breath now that Dynamax is gone. Even if top Ladder players were using (semi-)Stall teams it wasn't always easy for defensive Pokemon to handle all the pressure induced by offensive Dynamax abusers. Most of the time, they have to Dynamax back in order to be able to handle threats like Kommo-o, Gengar or Polteageist. While I don't think that defensive teams are going to be overwhelming at all, I do believe that they're gonna be better and the same goes for Balanced which struggled a lot in the past metagame in my opinion since all the pressure was put on only 2-3 Pokemon and it wasn't always easy for those Pokemon to handle all the different threats linked to Dynamax.
Overall I'm super happy that Dynamax is gone and I do believe that it will be better for the tier. We just need to wait until Showdown works again to see, explore and play a brand new metagame with even more possibilities and even more fun things to use !
The losers
Max Airstream abuser of obviously the biggest losers in this story because they can't boost their speed anymore which is annoying because the speed in boost was the main thing which allows them to snowball and to go rampage against opponent's Pokemon/Team. Charizard is particularly affected by this ban since its only viable set depended entirely on the Dynamax mechanic which allows it to setup its own Sun and boost its Speed. This ban also impact Rotom-Fan which was able to use Nasty Plot then Dynamax to use Max Airstream. It's also to a lesser extent a bit annoying for Pokemon like Mew, Intelegon, Diggersby or Sirfetch'd.. which were using Max Airstream to boost their speed. However it was more used for the boost than for some real damages and they're still viable even without Max Airstream.
Choiced locked Pokemon valued the Dynamax mechanic since it allows them to unlock from their Choice item which was really useful if they want to get rid of a special threat or an annoying Pokemon. It also forced some 50/50 when players were in front of Choice locked Pokemon because they had to think about the opportunity of those Pokemon to unlock thanks to Dynamax. As a result, Pokemon like Boltund, Braviary, Gengar, Indeedee or Inteleon kinda regret this ban. Now we don't have to scout anymore, if a Pokemon is locked, it will stayed locked for the rest of match unless you're using Knock Off on it !
Setup Sweepers in general could abuse of the Dynamax because it allows them to hit super hard or setup even more (with either Max Knuckle, Max Ooze or Max Airstream). Pokemon like DD / SD Mew were able to snowball thanks to Max Mindstorm or Max Knuckle. On the other hand Gengar was able to boost its special attack thanks to Max Ooze which was deadly thanks to the gain of bulk provided by Dynamax. There was a plethora of Pokemon which could abuse of this like Shell Smash users such as Barbaracle, Cloyster or Polteageist, Clangerous Soul Kommo-o or No Retreat Falinks. Durant is another Pokemon which was a great user of Dynamax since it allows it to abuse of its ability Hustle without the fear of missing an attack. We can also talk about Weather teams such as Sun teams and Rain teams which may be nerfed by this ban since Dynamax allowed Pokemon to setup the weather but overall I think they're still viable archetypes.
The winners
As I said in a previous post, I strongly believe that Obstagoon is one of the major winner of the Dynamax ban. Dynamax was a mechanic which was able to greatly boost the bulk of its users which allows them to handle way more attacks than in their normal form. As a result, a lot of Pokemon were able to handle Obstagoon's hits thanks to Dynamax and retaliate back which wasn't a good thing at all for Obstagoon since it forces it to take some extra damages. Now than Dynamax is gone, Obstagoon is going to be a great powerhouse able to act as a great Wallbreaker thanks to Guts or Guts + Bulk Up while being able to be a Stallbreaker thanks to Taunt. This Pokemon is going to be great for sure !
Like Obstagoon strong hiters are going to be really good in this new metagame. I can definitively see Nasty Plot or Choice Specs Gengar being really hard to handle since Dynamax is now banned and there isn't anymore Pursuit in the game. The tier doesn't have a lot of Ghost resistances so it's going to be really hard to handle this Pokemon. Even Umbreon will need to be careful because Specs Focus Blast or +2 Focus Blast / Dazzling Gleam are going to do a shit load of damages to it. On the other hand, Frosmoth is a great setup Sweepers thanks to Quiver Dance. Even if it struggles to break Steel-types it's a dangerous sweeper which can tears apart some defensive core with Hippowdon, Umbreon or Weezing-Galar. Also there isn't a lot of great Steel-types in the tier due to / thanks to (pick the one you like the most) dexit. Steelix doesn't like Ice Beam because of its Ground-type while Bronzong doesn't enjoy a boosted Bug Buzz due to its Psychic-type (40-48% at +1). However, Escavalier, Copperajah and Doublade looks good vs the frozen moth. While strong special hitters looks nice, it's also the case of physical powerhouse like Bewear, Diggersby and Sirfetch'd which all like the overall bulk debuff induced by the ban of Dynamax. Since all of them have access to Swords Dance and great STAB, they can all be great vs some defensive staples such as Umbreon, Avalugg or Hippowdon.
Whimsicott enjoys a looooot the ban of Dynamax since it can now freely abuse of its Prankster ability and in particular "Encore" which allows it to bother quite a lot setup Sweepers and defensive foes by locking them in a status move. Because Dynamax was able to bypass mechanic such as "Encore", Whimsicott wasn't able to stop Dynamax set-up Sweeper but now it's not anymore an issue for it ! Since it also has some great move thanks to Tailwind, U-turn, Moonblast or Memento, I can definitively see my fluffy boy become a really nice and useful tool in the tier.
Defensive staples can freely take a breath now that Dynamax is gone. Even if top Ladder players were using (semi-)Stall teams it wasn't always easy for defensive Pokemon to handle all the pressure induced by offensive Dynamax abusers. Most of the time, they have to Dynamax back in order to be able to handle threats like Kommo-o, Gengar or Polteageist. While I don't think that defensive teams are going to be overwhelming at all, I do believe that they're gonna be better and the same goes for Balanced which struggled a lot in the past metagame in my opinion since all the pressure was put on only 2-3 Pokemon and it wasn't always easy for those Pokemon to handle all the different threats linked to Dynamax.
Overall I'm super happy that Dynamax is gone and I do believe that it will be better for the tier. We just need to wait until Showdown works again to see, explore and play a brand new metagame with even more possibilities and even more fun things to use !
Defensive staples can freely take a breath now that Dynamax is gone. Even if top Ladder players were using (semi-)Stall teams it wasn't always easy for defensive Pokemon to handle all the pressure induced by offensive Dynamax abusers. Most of the time, they have to Dynamax back in order to be able to handle threats like Kommo-o, Gengar or Polteageist. While I don't think that defensive teams are going to be overwhelming at all, I do believe that they're gonna be better and the same goes for Balanced which struggled a lot in the past metagame in my opinion since all the pressure was put on only 2-3 Pokemon and it wasn't always easy for those Pokemon to handle all the different threats linked to Dynamax.
A quick reminder that both Steelix, Cloyster, Avalugg, Cofagrigus, Runerigus and Torkoal can also outright abuse Body Press.
Played a few warm ups and tested out some things without Dynamax. Got some thoughts:
1. Obstagoon
Moutemoute is absolutely on the money. A lot of mons just die or get 2HKO’d by the sheer power of Obstagoon. May even dare say be one of best wall breakers in tier right now. Forcing 50/50s with guts boosted Facade is no joke and being able to stuff out popular walls like Weezing, Jellicent, and even Hippowdon is an amazing thing. The Taunt / Facade / Knock Off / Obstruct set will be a strong contender for best set for Obsta. He’s not as easy access / easy use a Pokémon compared to others in tier right now but Obstagoon I predict will have a strong case for Top 10 in usage once the OU Leftovers are gone in tier. (Gengar, Kommo-O) His power is OD and very very few things can switch into it even with careful prediction.
2. Electric-Types (Volt Switchers)
With the advent of walls being back in favor, Volt Switchers have a chance to shine brighter than ever before. Several of these walls are bulky waters and a select few of the volt switchers available have a lot of nasty tools to deal with both the Bulky Waters and common switch-ins such as Rhypherior, Hippowdon, and others. Lanturn and Rotom-Mow I feel are going to be the big winners from this happening as both have the needed versatility to survive with the meta changes. More straight forward Pokémon such as Boltund and Jolteon may stagnate or decline in usage.
3. Dual Screens
Without Dynamax being around Taunt users, bulky attackers, and popular walls that will rise in usage dual screens may be in trouble. Mew and Bronzong still have a great niche in the meta to stay relevant without Dual Screens so it isn’t like both will miss running those sets. Shell Smashers alongside Poltergeist may see usage with Screens but it would mostly be carried off the back of Poltergeist being a questionable Pokémon in tier at the moment due to insane damage output.
Smaller Notes / Predictions:
-Charizard is DEAD and will prolly drop to NU because of the ban
-Sun teams will thrive without Charizard as several Chlorophyll users and tools are still in tier. They also will appreciate having drought available to fend off some of the bulky waters that will rise in usage.
-I hope Rotom-Heat and Mandibuzz drop to UU. Mandibuzz dropping to this tier will give us another out into a good defogger that isn’t named Weezing. Rotom-Heat will be an excellent appliance especially with the lack of very strong Fire-Types in tier at the moment.
Excited to play once the ladder is back online. Dynamax was a very degen strat and while I appreciated it’s idea, it isn’t made to make pokemon competitive.
1. Obstagoon
Moutemoute is absolutely on the money. A lot of mons just die or get 2HKO’d by the sheer power of Obstagoon. May even dare say be one of best wall breakers in tier right now. Forcing 50/50s with guts boosted Facade is no joke and being able to stuff out popular walls like Weezing, Jellicent, and even Hippowdon is an amazing thing. The Taunt / Facade / Knock Off / Obstruct set will be a strong contender for best set for Obsta. He’s not as easy access / easy use a Pokémon compared to others in tier right now but Obstagoon I predict will have a strong case for Top 10 in usage once the OU Leftovers are gone in tier. (Gengar, Kommo-O) His power is OD and very very few things can switch into it even with careful prediction.
2. Electric-Types (Volt Switchers)
With the advent of walls being back in favor, Volt Switchers have a chance to shine brighter than ever before. Several of these walls are bulky waters and a select few of the volt switchers available have a lot of nasty tools to deal with both the Bulky Waters and common switch-ins such as Rhypherior, Hippowdon, and others. Lanturn and Rotom-Mow I feel are going to be the big winners from this happening as both have the needed versatility to survive with the meta changes. More straight forward Pokémon such as Boltund and Jolteon may stagnate or decline in usage.
3. Dual Screens
Without Dynamax being around Taunt users, bulky attackers, and popular walls that will rise in usage dual screens may be in trouble. Mew and Bronzong still have a great niche in the meta to stay relevant without Dual Screens so it isn’t like both will miss running those sets. Shell Smashers alongside Poltergeist may see usage with Screens but it would mostly be carried off the back of Poltergeist being a questionable Pokémon in tier at the moment due to insane damage output.
Smaller Notes / Predictions:
-Charizard is DEAD and will prolly drop to NU because of the ban
-Sun teams will thrive without Charizard as several Chlorophyll users and tools are still in tier. They also will appreciate having drought available to fend off some of the bulky waters that will rise in usage.
-I hope Rotom-Heat and Mandibuzz drop to UU. Mandibuzz dropping to this tier will give us another out into a good defogger that isn’t named Weezing. Rotom-Heat will be an excellent appliance especially with the lack of very strong Fire-Types in tier at the moment.
Excited to play once the ladder is back online. Dynamax was a very degen strat and while I appreciated it’s idea, it isn’t made to make pokemon competitive.
I can't add much to Moutemoutes great post, so I'll share just a few experiences.
Gigalith was fun to play in the alpha, though this was affected by its ability to take on Dynamax-'zard and -Gengar. With 'mons like Galvantula/Ribombee, Indeede or Gengar as prominent choices, I could see how Gigalith does good work as a Rocksetter over the likes of Hippowdon or Steelix.
I'm interested in this 'mons role in UU. Due to the shortage of Hazard removal, Defog on such a fast 'mon can be a nice adittion to all kinds of teams. Taunt is as good as ever in breaking down walls and the lack of Toxic makes a switchin hard to punish for many walls. Together with T-Spike Support, Noivern does a good job nibbling on defensive cores while also providing an offensive option.
This is what I am quite curious about. The "boots" open up so many more options for bug and fire types alike and provide a very balanced buff to otherwise hardly viable pokemon. Add the lack of Knock Off users to the mix (RIP Weavile) and 'mons like Arcanine or Frosmoth might provide a benefit to the team they otherwise couldn't accomplish without heavy emphasize on Hazard removal. (I miss Moltres guys. This world ain't fair).
I've played a very similar set with good results. You've stated the issues this set has, but as a gimmick it works allright. Depending on how the meta develops, maybe think about speedcreeping Crawdaunt, a mon that otherwise stops a potential sweep. I for my part haven't missed the bulk I had to sacrifies. Leftovers are imo superior to WP and Rest might be an option over Power Split / Protect.
I'm interested in this 'mons role in UU. Due to the shortage of Hazard removal, Defog on such a fast 'mon can be a nice adittion to all kinds of teams. Taunt is as good as ever in breaking down walls and the lack of Toxic makes a switchin hard to punish for many walls. Together with T-Spike Support, Noivern does a good job nibbling on defensive cores while also providing an offensive option.
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Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost
Noivern is probably this tier's best Defog user as of right now with how limited distribution is. While some may argue Galarian Weezing is the best Defog user, I personally think it has a pretty rough 4MSS with wanting to fit the utility it needs. Either way, Noivern really benefits from Heavy-Duty Boots this generation (Similar to a lot of other Pokemon) to remove its weakness to Stealth Rock. Being a fast Defog user also helps deal with a lot of the Spikes + Webs spam that was happening lately, so having a near-guaranteed way to remove hazards is great for it. I have also used Taunt sets and they are just as good as annoying bulkier shit, especially if you pair it with Super Fang.
Choice Scarf
I also wanted to talk about some of the effects of Dynamax being removed (Even though I have only managed to log on once since PS started dying). Moute made a nice post summarizing a lot of the key points but what I want to talk about are Choice Scarf users. With Dynamax being banned there is a lot less restriction on having to use unconventional scarfers like Whimsicott and Inteleon to deal with Max Airstream Pokemon, which means some of the above Pokemon get better at fulfilling their role. I actually think Choice Scarf users benefit more from Dynamax being gone so that they can actually fulfill their role of revenge killing better. Previously they did not benefit from being forced to Dynamax in response as it broke their Choice Scarf, including the +1 Speed. No longer having to be worried about a Pokemon suddenly doubling their HP means they can actually revenge kill the threats they need to consistently. Personally, I hope to see Passimian usage rise a lot with it being the few Fighting-types we have that can generate momentum with U-turn and still has access to Knock Off. I also think Gardevoir can be pretty decent now and with Sun teams seeing a decent amount of usage, being able to Trace Chlorophyll is a really good niche for it.
Trick/Switcheroo
While Choice locked Pokemon got hit with the Dynamax ban and Defensive staples getting better as a result too, I would like to point out that Trick / Switcheroo now becomes a lot better. With the removal of Mega Stones and Z-Moves there isn't a way to easily play around it without predicting this and switching into your own Choice locked Pokemon or forcing a defensive Mon to take up a slot to run Trick themselves. This means there is essentially no drawback in clicking the move in any other scenario if the need to keep your Specs or Scarf is no longer necessary. I'd expect these moves to play a vital role when it comes to the viability of some of our choice locked breakers and revenge killers. The above Pokemon look to be the most viable Pokemon to use the moves along with a Choice locked item.
Certain Breakers/Sweepers
I hope to see these breakers/sweepers getting a lot more usage post-Dynamax as I personally think they were decent in Dynamax better but now they get a lot better. Bewear is now a much better breaker in the tier and no longer has to worry about Dynamax Pokemon being able to ignore Fluffy with all their moves not making contact. Lucario is the only offensive Steel-type that is viable and has access to set up moves like Swords Dance and Nasty Plot (Not including Doublade). Every other Steel-type isn't able to do this and when you pair this with its great coverage and access to three types of priority it gets a lot better post-Dmax. Ninetales is a really good NP and Choice Specs user and while it has seen usage on Sun, I think it is just as powerful as a standalone breaker on teams. Personally, I think Salazzle is really good right now with its Speed tier and typing making it difficult to switch into + it absorbs T-Spikes. Nasty Plot with its STAB coverage lets it hit pretty much anything, but having Toxic as a filler allows it to punish all the Specially Defensive Pokemon like Rhyperior, Milotic, Pyukumuku, Snorlax etc. As far as I am aware it doesn't need Corrosion on this set unless Qwilfish somehow soars in usage as every Poison-type is slower and gets clapped by +2 Fire Blast.
Salazzle (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Toxic
Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
Ability: Oblivious / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Toxic
Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
I was hoping Tsareena would get better with Dynamax gone and while I do think this is the case, it has a lot of issues. Toxic Spikes are everywhere right now and Tsareena struggles to threaten Poison-types (the only one that it severely dents is Drapion) or punish them with the loss of Knock Off. Tsareena also doesn't like the Ghost-type spam right now especially when it is Gengar sitting at the top. Maybe CB sets will just be its best but like most Pokemon, it may need to wait till Pokemon Home releases to get a lot better.
Tier looks like it will be a lot of fun as the meta finally begins to settle, but OU please take this Mon back
For the Nasty Plot Salazzle set, wouldn't Dragon Pulse be better in the 4th slot? It allows you to hit Kommo-o.
Below is the calc for standard offensive Kommo-o:
+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 267-315 (91.4 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Even bulky Kommo-o doesn't take the hit too well:
+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 267-315 (75.4 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The main point being there isn't anything that resists its STAB combination except for Rhyperior I believe. It losing Hidden Power kinda hurts it but Toxic essentially fills that void for dealing with the SpD Mons it can't break.
I see, thanks!
People use Trapinch? I know it has base 100 Attack, but the rest of its stats are just bad (base 10 Speed lol). What set are they running exactly? I might have to try it out.
Trapinch @ EvioliteAbility: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- First Impression
- Earthquake
- Superpower / Rock Slide
- Protect
I’m not saying it’s an incredibly viable or splashable mon, it’s definitely niche, but it can put in work. This is the set I use. Yup, it has absolutely shit stats, but Arena Trap + base 100 attack + First Impression is solid enough, and with Eviolite it can survive hits from like Drapion or whatever to take it out with Earthquake. It needs a free switch-in but that’s pretty easy to provide it with as I’ve mentioned.
Edit: Setendo I run min speed because it’s not outspeeding anything regardless, and with min speed it underspeeds most Trick Room mons, which can be handy.
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Any particular reason why it's minimum speed? I mean, with base 10 Speed it's not like it matters. I'm just curious.
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- First Impression
- Earthquake
- Superpower / Rock Slide
- Protect
I’m not saying it’s an incredibly viable or splashable mon, it’s definitely niche, but it can put in work. This is the set I use. Yup, it has absolutely shit stats, but Arena Trap + base 100 attack + First Impression is solid enough, and with Eviolite it can survive hits from like Drapion or whatever to take it out with Earthquake. It needs a free switch-in but that’s pretty easy to provide it with as I’ve mentioned.
It is mostly because it is gonna be outsped by everything in tier already outside of the gimmicky Trick Room rooms. Especially with that being a thing it could also force the rare situation Trapinch does outspeed under Trick Room and can effectively trap something.
So it’s better to invest in some bulk so that Trapinch can live a hit and trap a needed mon that needs to be removed for your team to be enabled.
I don't think Pelipper will ever drop into UU, so I don't think we will ever have to worry about Drizzle in UU. Drought could potentially be overwhelming once Venusaur is released but right now its best abuser is Charizard which seems underwhelming since its typing either mandates Boots meaning it can't run Specs, or makes Zard get worn down even faster. Most of the Chlorophyll users are complete trash especially since they can't run HP Fire anymore.
Drizzle is very unlikely to even make it to UU. Pellipper is the only inducer, and there's also very few actual rain abusers. In fact, there's not even many good water-types in Gen 8 as a whole, and the majority of them are OU. The only Swift Swimmers in UU are Ludicolo; Mantine [Not an offensive threat] Seaking [Isn't a threat at all] and Magikarp/Feebas.
Drought also lacks abusers, because things such as Victreebel are not in this generation. Sun has always been more manageable than Rain, because the grass abusers become even weaker to Fire; and the Fire abusers don't get speed boosts. The only way I see sun potentially being a problem is Venusaur. And if Venusaur is the only problem, the answer isn't to ban Drought, it's to ban Venusaur.
Ninetales + Shiftry is actually quite a common / versatile core, you don't need to restrict yourself with a full sun team as just these two perform well as offensive threats. Agreeing that it's not anywhere near broken by now, but its not as unviable as you are implying. It will definitely improve in consistency once Kommo leaves the tier as well. The best comparison I could give you would be SM RU Ninetales + Venusaur which played very similarly and was much more viable than full sun.
Hey.. it's been a few days that we have our new metagame without Dynamax and since I played some games, I'd like to share with you my thoughts on some Pokemon that I've been using. Let's dive into this !
Underrated but useful spinner
Morpeko is a really nice offensive support Pokemon thanks to its access to Rapid Spin and its Dark-type which allows it to threaten Ghost-types which would like to prevent Rapid Spin thanks to their typing. I've been using this set on the ladder and it works pretty well. Protect is used to be able to switch safely from full belly to hangry mode while Parting Shot is always useful to pivot but be careful because the attack is blocked by Soundproof so don't use it vs Kommo-o if you don't want to be screwed. Aura Wheel is the only offensive move that Morpeko really need, it doesn't have some amazing coverage options and since it's not a powerhouse at all, it will struggles to take advantage of other moves such as Seed Bomb or Psychic Fangs. It's also important to mention that Morpeko can be used as a decent finisher since both Rapid Spin and Aura Wheel provide it a boost in speed each time they're used.
Thanks to SS, Turtonator has now access to Rapid Spin which allows it to support its teammates by removing Entry Hazards. On the other hand, its access to Shell Smash allows it to pressure Stealth Rock / Spikes users but also to act as a decent breaker. The EVs in speed allow Turtonator to outspeed Hippowdon but also Timid Polteageist after a Shell Smash and Milotic after a Rapid Spin. Obviously I'm using Heavy-Duty Boots (praise this godly item) on this Pokemon since it's weak to Stealth Rock because of its Fire-type.
Rotom-Mow THE Volt-Switch abuser
Rotom-Mow is in my opinion one of the most annoying Pokemon to deal with when you're using defensive teams. Thanks to its typing, it can pressure Ground-types and abuse of its Volt-Switch. As Twilight said in his previous post the lack of Mega Stone and Z-Crystal is a bless for Rotom-Mow since it can Trick what it wants and it can effectively bother defensives Pokemon such as Umbreon thanks to that. Also the only Ground-type which isn't weak to Leaf Storm is Flygon which can't have Roost yet in SS.. so let's pray that it will get it with Pokemon Home.. Overall this Pokemon is quite amazing at the moment and act as a great Choice Scarf user. Because of that, I do believe that Togedemaru can be a viable pick if your team is weak to Rotom-Mow since it resists Leaf Storm and it's not affected by Volt-Switch thanks to Lightning Rod. Choice Scarf Togedemaru also has a really nice speed tier so I do believe this Pokemon may be useful.
Sun Teams
(click a sprite to get the import of the Pokemon)
Sun Teams are definitively a viable archetype since there is some great abusers of this mechanic. Since we don't have any Drizzle's user in UU and there isn't useful abuser of the sandstorm, Sun Teams can be really nice without being overwhelming. Ninetales and Torkoal are two great inducer which can fulfill different roles. On one hand, Ninetales is an offensive abuser of Drought and can pressure on its own opponent's Pokemon thanks to Nasty Plot + Fire Blast + Solar Beam while on the other hand, Torkoal brings a ton of support to Sun Teams by providing Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin in one slot. On the abuser side, Sun Teams are definitively not prejudiced with great abuser on the physical and the special side. Shiftry is the most common of them and can be played as a physical or a special sweeper thanks to its access to Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. However, the most common of its two sets is its physical set for sure since it has access to some great tools like Sucker Punch, Leaf Blade or even Explosion. While I was reading people's post about Sun Teams, I was surprised to see that no one has yet talked about Leafeon which is another great Sun abuser in my opinion. Even if Leafon doesn't have the typing of Shiftry neither a priority, it's faster and more powerful than Shiftry. While it's movepool isn't the best it still has some nice options with Iron Tail to punish Weezing-Galar, X-Scissor to nail Grass-types or Double Edge for an attack which is able to hit many foes in a neutral way. Give it a try, it's a really nice Pokemon ! On the special side, we have Solar Power users : Heliolisk and Charizard and both of them can be nice. The first one is a really powerful pivot with a plethora of coverage options like Grass Knot, Focus Blast or Dark Pulse while the other is also able to shine thanks to Fire-type STAB + Solar Beam.. however the ban of Dynamax is still quite tough for it..
Haxorus : the best Dragon Dancer ?
Dragon Dance Haxorus is a really good setup Sweeper which is able to outspeed every non-boosted Pokemon and Choice Scarf users after a single Dragon Dance which is really interesting but also super threatening. The main issue with this Pokemon is that it has a pretty bad 4MSS. Without Close Combat it really struggles to beat Avalugg which takes less than 50% with a +1 Outrage but it also miss the KO on Umbreon if it's full health. On the other hand Earthquake is almost mandatory in order to punish both Doublade and Weezing-Galar.. but Haxorus also need its powerful Dragon-type STAB and it needs a way to punish Fairy-types like Whimsicott or Silvally-Fairy so Poison Jab is needed.. Overall the Pokemon is great but it will always struggle to beat something because of this annoying 4MSS..
The metagame looks nice but really offensive and I kinda struggle to make defensive teams since there is way too much offensive threats to handle in my opinion, the tier has some amazing defensive tools but I really think they can't handle the whole tier at the moment.. let's wait the end of the UU Alpha to see if some Pokemon will be banned !
Underrated but useful spinner
Morpeko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Parting Shot
- Rapid Spin
- Aura Wheel
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Parting Shot
- Rapid Spin
- Aura Wheel
Turtonator @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
Rotom-Mow THE Volt-Switch abuser
Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Leaf Storm
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Leaf Storm
Sun Teams
(click a sprite to get the import of the Pokemon)
Sun Teams are definitively a viable archetype since there is some great abusers of this mechanic. Since we don't have any Drizzle's user in UU and there isn't useful abuser of the sandstorm, Sun Teams can be really nice without being overwhelming. Ninetales and Torkoal are two great inducer which can fulfill different roles. On one hand, Ninetales is an offensive abuser of Drought and can pressure on its own opponent's Pokemon thanks to Nasty Plot + Fire Blast + Solar Beam while on the other hand, Torkoal brings a ton of support to Sun Teams by providing Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin in one slot. On the abuser side, Sun Teams are definitively not prejudiced with great abuser on the physical and the special side. Shiftry is the most common of them and can be played as a physical or a special sweeper thanks to its access to Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. However, the most common of its two sets is its physical set for sure since it has access to some great tools like Sucker Punch, Leaf Blade or even Explosion. While I was reading people's post about Sun Teams, I was surprised to see that no one has yet talked about Leafeon which is another great Sun abuser in my opinion. Even if Leafon doesn't have the typing of Shiftry neither a priority, it's faster and more powerful than Shiftry. While it's movepool isn't the best it still has some nice options with Iron Tail to punish Weezing-Galar, X-Scissor to nail Grass-types or Double Edge for an attack which is able to hit many foes in a neutral way. Give it a try, it's a really nice Pokemon ! On the special side, we have Solar Power users : Heliolisk and Charizard and both of them can be nice. The first one is a really powerful pivot with a plethora of coverage options like Grass Knot, Focus Blast or Dark Pulse while the other is also able to shine thanks to Fire-type STAB + Solar Beam.. however the ban of Dynamax is still quite tough for it..
Haxorus : the best Dragon Dancer ?
Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Close Combat / Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Poison Jab
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Close Combat / Poison Jab
- Earthquake / Poison Jab
The metagame looks nice but really offensive and I kinda struggle to make defensive teams since there is way too much offensive threats to handle in my opinion, the tier has some amazing defensive tools but I really think they can't handle the whole tier at the moment.. let's wait the end of the UU Alpha to see if some Pokemon will be banned !
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Hi.. i was looking the viability ranking and one mon forgotten is Escavalier, expecially the Assault Vest variant..
Aquiles (Escavalier) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
Overcoart is for sleep moves from Ribombee and Roserade (lose HP Fire is huge for him)
Escavalier can switch into any special attacker without Fire- coverage.
Some calcs:
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 84-99 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ SpA Polteageist Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 186-220 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 36-42 (10.4 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 39-47 (11.3 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 252 SpA Kommo-o Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 139-165 (40.5 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
All of this Escavalier can win the 1v1.
He isnt Scizor but he has the same a typing :/
Aquiles (Escavalier) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
Overcoart is for sleep moves from Ribombee and Roserade (lose HP Fire is huge for him)
Escavalier can switch into any special attacker without Fire- coverage.
Some calcs:
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 84-99 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ SpA Polteageist Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 186-220 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 36-42 (10.4 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 39-47 (11.3 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 252 SpA Kommo-o Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 139-165 (40.5 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
All of this Escavalier can win the 1v1.
He isnt Scizor but he has the same a typing :/
Rest in Peace Politoed. Gone too soon. The one generation where Drizzle could make it to a lower tier, and you aren't even here to see it.
On an unrelated note, I've been messing around with a sort of Psychic-spam team with Scarf Indeedee and Specs Gardevoir. The idea is pretty self explanator: use Indeedee to set up Psychic Terrain, and blast things with a Specs terrain-boosted STAB Psychic. I've been having mixed results, which is probably because I'm not the best team builder/player. I'm sure someone else could make the
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