Other Metagames [Battle Stadium Singles] Winning the Dynamax War

This is the team I'm currently using in Battle Stadium Singles. I'm currently stalling out and having problems improving my win rate, so I'm interested in whether anyone has suggestions for improvements (although I'm unsure whether the problem is the team or the pilot; it's reached the point at which I can't see any obvious ways to improe the team, so I'm interested in whether anyone else can help).


The basic idea of the team is to exploit the effect that Dynamax has on 3 vs. 3 battles. A battle is very highly likely to be decided by one team or the other sweeping; the better Dynamax users get important boosts from it while dealing damage, and a Pokémon that sets up in some other way in addition to Dynamaxing can be almost unstoppable. Additionally, being able to use only 3 Pokémon (from your team of 6) means that players often won't have the appropriate counter available to what the opponents try. This means that every member on the team is designed to be flexible, capable of performing multiple roles depending on the situation, so that I can adapt my strategy based on what I see in Team Preview, and then again if necessary based on the Pokémon that are actually sent out.

There are basically three ways the Dynamax wars can go, and this team is designed to try to be able to win all three of them. One possibility is that a player Dynamaxes first, gets some important boosts, and sweeps the enemy team, with the enemy Dynamax unable to compete against an opponent who's set up from the sweep. This nearly always requires the Dynamaxer to have hugely boosted speed. On this team, Togekiss, Excadrill and Tyranitar are all capable of boosting their Speed to ridiculous levels through Dynamax, while each also having a mechanism to boost their relevant attacking stat.

The second possibility is that one player Dynamaxes first, but the Dynamaxer is taken down, leaving the other player with their own Dynamax to use. This scenario normally gives a huge advantage to the player who Dynamaxes second. Note that this isn't a "defensive Dynamax" – those are normally a bad ideas, because the attacker is gaining relevant boosts they expect to carry forward and the defender is just trying (and usually failing) to survive – but the second player setting up their own offensive Dynamax after the first one has failed (although the Dynamaxes sometimes overlap by a turn, with Max Guard being used on the overlap turn in order to force it to end and reduce the first Dynamaxer's effective HP). This team has a range of methods to try to take down enemy Dynamaxers, involving outspeeding the Dynamaxer (Excadrill, Whimsicott), walling it (Cloyster, or use of a type immunity), or reducing its stats (Excadrill again, Whimsicott again), and then doing enough damage to KO it (normally after the Dynamax has ended). In general, any Dynamax that doesn't boost the user's Speed via any means is exploitable, because the Dynamaxer can be outsped during or after the Dynamax. I often intentionally play for this scenario, trying to bait the opponent into Dynamaxing early so that my later Dynamax will be unstoppable.

The third possibility is that both players Dynamax at the same time. This normally results in a lot of spamming of Max Airstream from both sides of the field (because if you choose any move other than Max Airstream, Max Guard or Max Strike, you end up slower after the Dynamaxes end and will typically be finished by the opponent, so both attackers are effectively locked into Max Airstream for three turns). There are a few situations where the simultaneous Dynamax is highly likely to occur (e.g. if both players have Gyarados or Togekiss on lead); my Pokémon are EVed to win the war in this situation (normally by 3HKOing the opponent with Max Airstream whilst being only 4HKOed in return; because Dynamax lasts exactly 3 turns, this means you end up winning the Dynamax war even if your Speed stat is lower).

Besides winning the Dynamax wars, the team is filled with a range of other ways to sweep the enemy team. Almost every Pokémon can act as a sweeper in some circumstances, even if left without a Dynamax; almost every Pokémon also has some way to act as a wallbreaker. This means that whatever happens in the battle, I'm likely to have some chance to claw my way back into it (unless I lost the Dynamax wars so comprehensively that the opponent just has a clean sweep). There are dedicated non-Dynamax sweepers like Cloyster so that a second sweep can be attempted if Pokémon remain after the Dynamax wars are over.


Because every team member can fulfil multiple roles, the team doesn't really have dedicated leads or a dedicated attack pattern; everything's decided based on what the opponent's team is like and what plan I intend to use for that game (and then, may change again mid-game). As a consequence, the Pokémon are listed in no particular order.


Togekiss

Togekiss @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 148 HP / 252+ SpA / 108 Spe (IVs: 0 Atk)
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Safeguard

Togekiss serves a range of roles on the team; it's probably described best as a pivot (being able to switch into Dragon- and Ground-typed attacks without damage), but can also be used as a Dynamax setup sweeper (with Max Airstream), or as a cleanup sweeper. It's almost a hard counter to Dragapult and to Ferrothorn, Pokémon which the team struggles to beat otherwise. It also beats most Corviknight builds and can (slowly) break its way through many walls.

Flamethrower is the most important move on the set, being required to beat Ferrothorn. It also beats Corviknight if it doesn't run Pressure (it deals about 50%, forcing it to Roost every turn and eventually runs out of PP), and the 20% burn chance with Serene Grace helps more generally when breaking through walls. Air Slash is important in two respects: it gives access to Max Airstream, possibly the most broken move in the game (and a move that's vital for winning Dynamax battles); and its 60% flinch rate enables Togekiss to beat things it otherwise couldn't (e.g. Togekiss can beat Pressure Corviknight via flinching it twice and finishing it off with Flamethrower, a 33% chance it's likely to get many attempts at hitting). Dazzling Gleam is a coverage move, but one that's required to counter Dragapult and similar dragons by threatening an OHKO against the sweepier builds.

Safeguard is more interesting: it's used in battles against walls like Toxapex and Pyukumuku, turning what would otherwise be a losing matchup into a winning matchup (if a very slow one); this Togekiss build has in fact beaten a Toxapex and Pyukumuku in the same battle. (It also helps Togekiss's team-mates against these walls; Togekiss's matchup against Corsola is dubious, but setting up a Safeguard lets Togekiss switch out to something like Gyarados or Dracovish that can beat it if it gets in safely.) The basic idea is that most walls rely on status moves like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp to deal most of their damage, so depriving them of that damage source means that Togekiss is better at outracing them, even if it has to use weak moves to do so. Normally Togekiss can't break a wall through its recovery move, but it can force the wall to use its recovery move almost every turn, eventually stalling it out of PP (in fact, Pyukumuku loses to Togekiss even if it has Spite).

The Weakness Policy is something that I'm unsure about as an item: the issue is that many opponents have come to expect it and will avoid using super-effective moves against Togekiss unless they would secure an OHKO. That said, it's the only form of setup other than a Speed boost, so is pretty much required for Togekiss to sweep by itself (as opposed to winning a Dynamax war and then fainting at some later point, although that outcome is still often a good one). When it does work, it's amazing and often wins the game. It's unclear what would replace it, due to Togekiss having multiple roles that value very different boosts: Life Orb would hurt too much in battles against walls, Leftovers would be too unhelpful when trying to sweep (because HP-percentage effects like Leftovers are halved during Dynamax).

The EVs give 114 speed, enough to outspeed neutral-natured Tyranitar. The next-higher speed tier that I consider relevant for this team is 131, enough to outspeed all Corviknight, but that would require 244 EVs, leaving almost nothing for the defences. Special Attack is maximised to increase the potential for a sweep, and the HP gives Togekiss the bulk to survive most neutral attacks (giving it a chance to attack faster Pokémon), and enough of a chance against super-effective attacks to allow the Weakness Policy to activate. Particularly important is that the added bulk allows Togekiss to survive three Max Airstreams from an enemy Togekiss while both are Dynamaxed (whereas "fast" Togekiss builds will only survive two); in a Togekiss vs. Togekiss lead situation, the usual move is for both to Dynamax (effectively locking both into Max Airstream or Max Guard for the three turns), and the extra bulk causes Togekiss to come out ahead.

Togekiss is a common choice for lead when I don't know what the opponent will do (especially as many common lead choices from the opponent, like Dragapult and Grimmsnarl, are weak to Fairy); it helps to prevent an immediate loss to a Max Airstream user because Togekiss has good matchups for simultaneous Dynamaxes against those. It has decent matchups against most common Pokémon (and in the cases where it doesn't, there's normally a safe switch away to, e.g., Excadrill against Rotom). It's also commonly used in the back in situations where I don't know whether my lead will Dynamax or as a generic cleanup sweeper when there's a lot of variety in the Pokémon my opponents could potentially deploy (as seen from Team Preview).

Due to access to Max Airstream, Togekiss is a frequent Dynamax user, either for a Weakness Policy sweep or because the lead matchup demands it. Unless I get a Weakness Policy boost, I don't expect to sweep the whole enemy team, but I do expect to negate their Dynamax and hope to gain a profit from it.


Excadrill

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252+ Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance

Excadrill is one of the most potentially powerful setup sweepers on the team, both with and without Dynamax: its moves do heavy damage even unboosted, and even heavier damage if it gets an opportunity to use Swords Dance. It's also bulky enough to act on defence in an emergency.

The attacking moves give Ground/Steel/Rock coverage, which collectively can hit most of the metagame neutrally and much of it super-effectively. Rock Tomb is notably weaker than the other two (with a lower base power and no STAB), but with a 95% chance to reduce the enemy Speed, it serves as insurance against mispredictions (e.g. if the opponent unexpectedly switches out, now at least you outspeed the switch-in; if the opponent unexpectedly Dynamaxes, you cancel out their Max Airstream or leave them slow enough that a defensive Dynamax in return is less bad than it normally would be). It's also useful in situations where you know the opponent is about to Baton Pass but (e.g. due to boosted Defence) you can't OHKO them before they do, as the Speed drop will be passed on.

Under Dynamax, the attacking moves turn into Max Quake / Max Steelspike / Max Rockfall. Max Rockfall is the most important: its 110 base power is now respectable even without a STAB boost, but more importantly, the sandstorm it summons combines with Sand Rush to double Excadrill's speed. As its speed is already naturally high, this has a tendency to outspeed even boosted opponents, and is one of the few ways to deal with Max Airstream users (because Max Rockfall boosts Speed twice as fast, you can outspeed them even if they're a turn ahead of you, and as a bonus most such users are weak to Rock). As an example, the Excadrill versus Cloyster matchup is a win for Cloyster normally, but for Excadrill if it Dynamaxes (against most builds, even if Cloyster Dynamaxes too, although my own Cloyster is an exception).

Swords Dance is an important move for sweeping: the boost from Swords Dance allows Excadrill to OHKO almost anything but a dedicated wall (with a speed boost from Max Rockfall meaning that they're outsped too, giving a perfect sweep). Excadrill can also beat some walls (such as certain Corviknight builds) by using it three times, although most dedicated walls will have some counter to that technique. Under Dynamax, it becomes Max Guard, which is useful in "revenge Dynamaxing": often you can Max Guard the opponent's third Dynamax turn, then Max Rockfall them after they change back (Excadrill has the bulk to typically tank one post-Dynamax attack unless the opponent has a super-effective move), and faint them the turn after, leaving Excadrill Dynamaxed with its sand, and cancelling out the enemy Dynamax (it's normally fainted the Pokémon before Excadrill, but we've end up with one Pokémon fainted on both sides, except that Excadrill still has its sand and a Dynamax turn remaining, an advantage to our team).

The Air Balloon and maximised Speed are both important for the Excadrill mirror match: Excadrill's best move against another Excadrill is normally Earthquake / Max Quake, so this gives our Excadrill an advantage that's often decisive (and also gives it an easy way to switch in on a predicted Ground-typed attack). Still, despite it often coming in helpful, I think that there might be alternative items that are more helpful. The EVs are otherwise designed to make Excadrill's attacks as strong as possible.

Excadrill is used as a lead in situations where I think it might be able to (or might benefit from) Dynamaxing immediately or using Swords Dance immediately, or if I think it would have a good type matchup against the opponent's likely lead. It's used in the back as a revenge Dynamaxer, backup Dynamaxer in cases where I'm not sure whether the lead will, or a cleanup sweeper. I also sometimes use it in the back if I think I can bait the opponent's lead into using a choiced Electric-type move (if they use Volt Switch, that's an almost sure sign of a choice item), buying a Swords Dance turn, although this comes with the risk of the enemy Dynamaxing and OHKOing (or outspeeding and 2HKOing) with a coverage move in response, so I use that technique less often nowadays unless I think the rest of my team can sweep once the enemy Dynamax is spent.


Gyarados

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252+ Atk / 4 Def / 60 SpD / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bounce
- Waterfall
- Power Whip
- Taunt

Gyarados is famously one of the best Dynamax users in the game, and can carry out a fairly good bulky sweep even without Dynamax's help. It's becoming less useful as a pure sweeper nowadays because most teams are prepared for it, so this version is designed to unexpectedly break through many of Gyarados's usual counters.

The primary move on Gyarados is Bounce: this turns into Max Airstream during Dynamax, giving Gyarados the speed boosts it needs to carry out its sweep. Normal Dynamax behaviour for Gyarados is to Max Airstream three times almost regardless of the opponent (there are a few exceptions, e.g. Max Geyser is preferable against Corviknight or to set up Dracovish to break through a wall); the entire ×2½ speed boost is often needed to outrun an enemy that Dynamaxes alongside it or has its speed boosted for a revenge kill. Bounce is also highly useful in other ways: if the opponent can't switch (e.g. it's their last Pokémon) or is discouraged from switching (e.g. they have important boosts to keep), it can serve as a Flying-type attack, and it's a great help in checking attempts by the opponent to revenge-Dynamax because the semi-invulnerable turn causes Dynamax moves to fail entirely. It also helps out Gyarados's Ditto matchup immensely: assuming a scarfed Ditto, it can't lock itself into Bounce because if both Pokémon use Bounce every turn the faster will always miss and the slower will always hit, so it will have to lock itself into a less useful move.

Waterfall and Power Whip are coverage moves (with Waterfall also being the most generally useful attack post-Dynamax). As for their Dynamax variants, Max Geyser is occasionally useful, Max Overgrow almost always a mistake (do you really want to give the walls that you'd typically be using it against extra HP regeneration that Gyarados itself can't benefit from?).

Taunt, and the Lum Berry, are criticial to giving Gyarados the ability to break through walls like Hippowdon, Toxapex (most of the time: there's randomness involved), Corsola, and Pyukumuku (which is especially helpful because the sight of Gyarados tends to induce opponents to bring those Pokémon out against you). Status moves like Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave and Yawn are commonly used in an attempt to stop a Dynamax sweep (Dynamax stops a large range of detrimental effects, but not confusion or primary status); the Lum Berry allows Gyarados to shrug those off once, and once is normally all it needs (by that point, the enemy status user has normally been KOed by Gyarados's attacks, but even in the case when it's very bulky or is switched in later in the sweep or in response to a KO, we can often Max Guard the status move and then Taunt the user). Taunt shuts down all of status moves, stat boosts and most forms of recovery; using it against a wall thus means that Gyarados gets many chances to break through it. (For example, repeatedly taunting Toxapex will allow Gyarados to make progress on average using Power Whip whilst preventing it doing anything but weak Scalds back: Gyarados wins unless Scald burns twice or Power Whip misses too often.)

Moxie is what allows Gyarados to continue sweeping after its Max Airstreams: an Attack boost when gaining a KO, combined with the speed boost from Max Airstream, gives the "boosted Attack + boosted Speed" combination that's typically needed to produce a perfect sweep.

The speed EVs give 125 speed, enough to outspeed all Aegislash and Tyranitar (unless they use Choice Scarf, but that would be very rare). Attack is, of course, maximised. The special defense EVs allow Gyarados to normally survive three Max Airstreams from Togekiss while both Togekiss and Gyarados are Dynamaxed; this makes a lead Gyarados versus a lead Togekiss a winning rather than losing matchup.

Gyarados is used as a lead when I think it could usefully Dynamax, or to make the opponent think it will Dynamax (to set up a sweep later on the team once the enemy has expended effort in countering the wrong Pokémon). If I bring both Gyarados and Excadrill, I'll normally lead with Gyarados but not decide which of Gyarados and Excadrill will Dynamax until I see the enemy lead, or later (mostly because if the opponent leads with an Electric-type, it'll nearly always attempt to Thunderbolt or Volt Switch Gyarados, so I can normally switch to Excadrill safely in that situation; opponents can't rely on this habit of mine because I might not have brought Excadrill to that battle). I use it in the back when I think it might be able to Dynamax sweep once the enemy team is weakened or has dealt with my leads, if I'm unsure about whether I want to Dynamax Togekiss and it's a more appropriate backup than Excadrill, or occasionally as a cleanup sweeper. I'm using it less often than many of its teammates nowadays, though: too many teams are prepared to handle Gyarados in ways that even this build can't break through.

Out of all the Pokémon on the team, Gyarados is the Pokémon that's most likely to be the Dynamax user when I use it at all: the difference between Dynamaxed and non-Dynamaxed is rather larger than it is for Togekiss or Excadrill.


Dracovish

Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252+ Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Rock Tomb
- Crunch

Dracovish exists on the team primarily to deal with slow enemy walls/tanks, like Corviknight and Snorlax; Corviknight walls the rest of the team apart from Togekiss, and Snorlax is almost impossible to otherwise beat unless my Pokémon have set up already. If Dracovish is ever in battle against something slower than it, and the opponent doesn't have Water Absorb or Storm Drain, the opponent is often placed in the situation of having to sacrifice a Pokémon.

In addition to acting as a wallbreaker, Dracovish is also capable of sweeping with Tailwind support from Whimsicott; 278 speed outspeeds everything short of Sand Rush Excadrill and Choice Scarf Dragapult, and thus means that Fishious Rend is highly likely to hit at its full 255 base power. I normally only attempt this if I'm sure from Team Preview that the opponent has nothing to stop it, as Whimsicott has to be sacrificed to set it up (you bait the opponent into KOing it on the turn it uses Tailwind in order to get three turns of Tailwind rather than two), although sometimes I'm forced into attempting this as an emergency backup plan if my main plan for the battle starts falling apart.

Fishious Rend is Dracovish's primary move, as its base power is so high that coverage becomes mostly irrelevant. However, the other moves nonetheless have purposes of their own. Psychic Fangs is Dracovish's best option in situations where it's forced to attempt a last Pokémon sweep against a team with a Water immunity; it isn't nearly as powerful, but is still very powerful and can often get KOs with the help of the Choice Band. It's also necessary for this Dracovish build to be able to beat Toxapex. Rock Tomb is useful in situations where Dracovish is slower but expected to survive a hit, especially if I have Dracovish + something else against the opponent's last Pokémon; it gives my remaining Pokémon a better chance of winning the eventual 1v1. (It's also preferable over Fishious Rend in a last Pokémon battle against Gyarados: although it's weaker despite the ×2 vs. ×½ effectiveness difference, the Speed drop buys Dracovish an extra turn, which makes up for it.) Crunch is the least important move in the set, existing mostly for a last Pokémon battle against Dragapult, but Dracovish doesn't have many better options. Maybe I should run Outrage instead.

EVs go into speed and attacks, as expected. A Jolly nature is required to outspeed +Speed Corviknight; there's no point in lowering the speed below 252 as the few EVs saved would be unlikely to be helpful. The Choice Band is necessary to do enough damage to the enemy walls that Dracovish is intended to stop. One problem with this is that the lack of a +Attack nature leaves Dracovish unable to beat Toxapex using Fishious Rend (although it can still beat it with Psychic Fangs).

Dynamaxing Dracovish makes its attacks weaker rather than stronger, so it's normally a bad idea. However, it can still win battles on occasion, because Dracovish's HP still doubles as normal; it also removes the Choice lock. A good example of Dynamaxing is using Max Rockfall to beat Lapras, something that would otherwise wall Dracovish (especially if it's locked into Fishious Rend at the time!). Still, most of the other Pokémon on this team get more of an advantage from Dynamaxing than Dracovish does, so it typically only gets the opportunity late in the battle, when the better Dynamaxers have already fainted (and didn't Dynamax either because they didn't need to or because it wouldn't accomplish anything against strong setup from the opponent).


Whimsicott

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252+ SpA / 252 Spe (IVs: 0 Atk)
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Memento
- Tailwind
- Taunt

Whimsicott has three main purposes on the team. It might be intended for a specific purpose in any particular matchup, but more commonly, it will pivot between two or three of these over the course of the game.

The first is as a check to Dragon-types, particularly Hydreigon and Dragapult. Moonblast will OHKO these, and it's often possible to switch in on a predicted Dragon-type move. (Although Togekiss also checks these, it might have fainted, or might not have been picked under the 3-from-6 ruleset.) It's quite common for enemies to expect prankster shenanigans from Whimsicott, only to watch it start sweeping instead. Incidentally, this is the only purpose for which Whimsicott's stats are actually relevant, so the EVs and nature are chosen to maximise Whimsicott's potential to sweep. Unfortunately, there are limits to this sweeping ability; most of the metagame is hit harder by Moonblast than by Giga Drain, and Whimsicott is too weak to do much with coverage moves.

(There's a separate reason why Whimsicott needs Moonblast: Dark-types wall Memento and Taunt, so Whimsicott's only way to interact with them is to attack. Luckily, Moonblast covers Dark-types in addition to Dragon-types.)

The second purpose is as a check to enemy Dynamaxers. The basic idea is to waste the last two turns of Dynamax (after a Dynamaxer attacks or maybe KOs one of our other Pokémon) by using our Focus Sash to survive one turn (which can be done as Whimsicott switches in), then using Memento for the last, giving the Dynamaxer's move no target (thus no boost) and reducing its stats to the point where it's hopefully no longer a threat. Although Whimsicott faints in the process, it's better than having your entire team swept, and this team benefits so much from the opponent's Dynamax being spent that it's often worth sacrificing a Pokémon purely for the purpose of wasting it.

The third purpose is to support our own sweepers. Tailwind gives a speed boost to Pokémon that need it (especially Dracovish), and is something for Whimsicott to do if it ends up with a spare turn while waiting to be knocked down to its sash. Memento buys the next Pokémon a turn to set up, giving Cloyster a chance to Shell Smash or Excadrill a chance to Swords Dance (or Gyarados a turn to Max Airstream); sometimes it becomes clear that the entire enemy team is defeated by one of these two forms of setup, and Whimsicott can be used to almost guarantee the opportunity. It can also be used to bait the opponent into activating Togekiss's Weakness Policy (the idea is to reduce the attacking stats of a Pokémon with electric, rock or steel moves, and hope it uses them on the Togekiss we switch in afterwards; the drop in stats means that they'll effectively do neutral damage). Taunt is also necessary when Whimsicott is being used for this purpose, to prevent enemy setup moves being used as Whimsicott switches out or Mementoes out (in addition to stopping some random status moves like Sleep Powder, which won't affect Whimsicott but will affect whoever comes out next).

Whimsicott is used as a lead if my team has a Pokémon that can sweep all six of the enemy Pokémon given setup; additionally, if I suspect that the opponent will lead with a Dragon or Dark type, I'll usually lead with a fairy (either Whimsicott or Togekiss depending on how I need to support the rest of my team). It can be used in the back as well, either as a plan B for if the lead's sweep fails, or if I'm planning to bait my opponent's Dynamax early with my lead and then set up an unopposed Dynamax sweep with the third Pokémon.

Whimsicott basically never Dynamaxes (the only situation in which it might would be a last Pokémon 1v1, to increase its effective HP).


Cloyster

Cloyster @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 125 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe / 0+ Def
Impish Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Protect

Cloyster is a physical tank: it uses its huge defence against physical moves to switch in safely against something that can't hurt it (e.g. Mimikyu), sets up a Shell Smash, and then sweeps. It serves an important team role as a sweeper that can be set up without using Dynamax, allowing two sweeps in a battle. Against many opponents, it can set up without support; against some, Whimsicott can help it out with a Memento (or occasionally a Tailwind, in the case where the opponent has boosted speed and thus would outspeed it even after a Shell Smash), securing the sweep.

The first three moves are standard on Cloyster for a good reason. Shell Smash is needed to be able to sweep, although it isn't always used before attacking (sometimes getting damage in immediately is more important, such as against Whimsicott and Grimmsnarl. Icicle Spear and Rock Blast are the most powerful STABs to use with Skill Link; their multiple-hit nature also helps when I suspect a Focus Sash, pierce Mimikyu's Disguise, and effectively guarantee an OHKO on anything with Weak Armour (because the Defence drops caused by the earlier hits will be factored in when the damage for the later hits is calculated). Ice and Rock is decent coverage, and normally it will be better to choose one of those over a different coverage move.

The last moveslot is a lot less important, and won't be used at all in most games. I've tried Sleep Talk (to handle enemy Yawn/Sleep Powder users), but it's too inconsistent; and Pin Missile (mostly for Tyranitar), but Tyranitar runs Weakness Policy often enough to make it too risky to use. Protect is at least useful for scouting for moves that could pose a danger.

The speed EVs are the minimum necessary to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after Shell Smash: the rest go into Attack and physical defence (Cloyster can't survive special hits anyway). Incidentally, the nature boost goes to Defence while the defensive EVs go to HP because Cloyster's base Defence stat is so high that physical defence is maximised by EVing HP, but you can't put a nature boost there. The need for speed and attack EVs makes it a little worse at walling than it could be, meaning that a White Herb is necessary to increase its bulk after a Shell Smash (it also helps against Intimidates and Rock Tomb speed drops as it switches in).

Cloyster is placed on lead in the situation where I think (or know) that the opponent's lead will be something it can set up against. It can be used in the back too, either to allow Whimsicott to set it up, or so that it can be used as a cleanup sweeper as a backup plan for if the earlier Pokémon fail to do the job.

Cloyster isn't intended as a primary Dynamaxer, as the gain from a Dynamax is lower for Cloyster than for many of the other Pokémon, but it does nonetheless end up Dynamaxing sometimes. The primary situation for this is if it ends up on lead against Sand Rush Excadrill: Cloyster's Shell Smash will force Excadrill to Dynamax (so as not to be outsped), and then Cloyster can Dynamax and use Max Hailstorm on the following turn, beating the Excadrill a turn afterwards with a few HP left to spare. This effectively causes both sides to waste their Dynamax, but leaves Cloyster able to continue sweeping if the opponent has no priority move (and even if they do, it just leads to a 2v2 where I have the lead advantage). Cloyster is also sometimes Dynamaxed to boost its HP against something that would otherwise be able to stop its sweep.
 
Two thinks I would like to bring up. First, even in a more power fluxed mode like Battle Spot Singles, speed creep is a very big deal. Because of this, Gyarados should have Jolly (especially if you are running Moxie over Intimidate) and Togekiss should be Timid. Additionally, Dracovish has more than enough power without Choice Band... So I feel Choice Scarf would better serve your team with it's ability to outspeed a lot of threats (wince in turn doubles Fishious rend's power).

The second thing is that, though you team as a lot of good breaking potential... It doesn't have any dedicated sweepers (at least conventionally). Excadrill can only really sweep under sand (meaning you having to waste your dynamax to set it up). Something as simple as giving Gyarados DDance over Taunt or making Togekiss a Leftovers/ Nasty Plot set and help remedy to issue... Though I would recommend both since Safeguard has very limited reliability and in the time Gyarados used taunt to stop Bulk Up Corviknight you could have swept with the combination of +2 atk and a couple Max Geysers... Plus switching to Intimidate means Gyarados can switch in on a Bulk up turn to negate the offensive pressure a bit.
 
Something I forgot to bring in my previous post... But Cloyster either needs a EV spread change or needs to be changed for a new mon all together.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 496-585 (182.3 - 215%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 306-360 (112.5 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 280-330 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 458-540 (168.3 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragapult is one of the most common mons in all formats... And specs is it's most common set in singles. Specs Dragapult outspeeds your Cloyster, even if you've already Smashed, and OHKO's it with very single move (meaning it doesn't need to think to hard on the predicting... Since Cloyster dies regardless)

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 125 HP / 0+ Def Cloyster: 166-198 (61 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Sucker Punch vs. 125 HP / 0+ Def Cloyster: 77-91 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Even a Life Orb DDance set as a chance to KO Cloyster with Dragon Darts into Sucker (and still outspeeds your +2 even without +1)
 
Two thinks I would like to bring up. First, even in a more power fluxed mode like Battle Spot Singles, speed creep is a very big deal. Because of this, Gyarados should have Jolly (especially if you are running Moxie over Intimidate) and Togekiss should be Timid. Additionally, Dracovish has more than enough power without Choice Band... So I feel Choice Scarf would better serve your team with it's ability to outspeed a lot of threats (wince in turn doubles Fishious rend's power).

The second thing is that, though you team as a lot of good breaking potential... It doesn't have any dedicated sweepers (at least conventionally). Excadrill can only really sweep under sand (meaning you having to waste your dynamax to set it up). Something as simple as giving Gyarados DDance over Taunt or making Togekiss a Leftovers/ Nasty Plot set and help remedy to issue... Though I would recommend both since Safeguard has very limited reliability and in the time Gyarados used taunt to stop Bulk Up Corviknight you could have swept with the combination of +2 atk and a couple Max Geysers... Plus switching to Intimidate means Gyarados can switch in on a Bulk up turn to negate the offensive pressure a bit.
Taunt on Gyarados isn't intended for Corviknight; that's a losing matchup regardless. It's intended for things like Toxapex. (I use Dracovish or Togekiss to handle Corviknight.) The Gyarados and Togekiss sets are designed to take advantage of speed creep by outbulking the weaker, speedier opponents (e.g. my Togekiss will basically always beat a Timid Togekiss if they both Dynamax at the same time, because I'll have the bulk to 3HKO it but not vice versa); when speed creep goes too far, it's often better to just be slower and make better use of the EVs rather than risking a speed tie. That said, making them faster might help against less common opponents in more unusual speed tiers. (Excadrill does need as much speed as possible, as you suggest, because it can't outbulk its normal threats.)

Dracovish does seem to need the boost from Choice Band to beat the things it's supposed to beat. In general, a failure to get an OHKO with Dracovish is a disaster. Against opponents like Snorlax (which it outspeeds naturally), failing to get the OHKO normally means that Dracovish will die and the Snorlax becomes unstoppable. It's possible that Life Orb would be enough, but do you really want to be switching moves on Dracovish anyway? (Additionally, Choice Band is clearly better when combined with Tailwind, although I don't do that all that often.)

That said, even though I suspect that removing both Taunt and Safeguard would risk the team outright losing to Toxapex, Pyukumuku and similar slow walls, removing one of them (probably Safeguard) might be viable. I may try out Nasty Plot on Togekiss, although it's a hard Pokémon to get setup turns with. One worry I have is that it'll make the team even weaker to Ditto than it already is (at the moment, only Gyarados and Dracovish have a good matchup against it); Ditto isn't all that common but it nearly always comes out against my team when the opponent has it.

I guess another possibility is to replace Power Whip with Dragon Dance: it's very rare that I actually use it, after all, and opponents will typically assume I have it even when I don't. Even so, finding opportunities to Dragon Dance will be hard: with most common opponents for Gyarados, clicking Dragon Dance means that the opponent will Dynamax and Gyarados will die due to not having the bulk from its own Dynamax (although you can keep up in terms of speed and damage output, you've already taken double damage due to not being Dynamaxed),

Something I forgot to bring in my previous post... But Cloyster either needs a EV spread change or needs to be changed for a new mon all together.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 496-585 (182.3 - 215%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 306-360 (112.5 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 280-330 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 125 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 458-540 (168.3 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragapult is one of the most common mons in all formats... And specs is it's most common set in singles. Specs Dragapult outspeeds your Cloyster, even if you've already Smashed, and OHKO's it with very single move (meaning it doesn't need to think to hard on the predicting... Since Cloyster dies regardless)

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 125 HP / 0+ Def Cloyster: 166-198 (61 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Sucker Punch vs. 125 HP / 0+ Def Cloyster: 77-91 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Even a Life Orb DDance set as a chance to KO Cloyster with Dragon Darts into Sucker (and still outspeeds your +2 even without +1)
I think you've miscalculated the speeds (perhaps you calculated at Level 100)? Choice Specs Dragapult has 213 speed if running 252+ Timid. Cloyster at +2 has 214 speed. So I outspeed and OHKO.

(I also normally don't bring Cloyster out against special attackers; it needs to match up against physical attackers to get the chance to set up. Often I'll have KOed Dragapult anyway with one of the fairies before attempting a Cloyster sweep.)


EDIT: I just tried three battles with Nasty Plot over Safeguard. One of them I lost because of Nasty Plot (I used it, rather than just attacking, in what looked like a safe setup turn: it wasn't, and in general setup turns in this format seem hard to come by). The other two, I won because of the Chocie Band on Dracovish getting KOs that normally wouldn't be possible against bulkier Pokémon (or in one case damaging it low enough that it died to its own Life Orb). Also, I can confirm that Cloyster at +2 outspeeds Dragapult.
 
Last edited:
Taunt on Gyarados isn't intended for Corviknight; that's a losing matchup regardless. It's intended for things like Toxapex. (I use Dracovish or Togekiss to handle Corviknight.) The Gyarados and Togekiss sets are designed to take advantage of speed creep by outbulking the weaker, speedier opponents (e.g. my Togekiss will basically always beat a Timid Togekiss if they both Dynamax at the same time, because I'll have the bulk to 3HKO it but not vice versa); when speed creep goes too far, it's often better to just be slower and make better use of the EVs rather than risking a speed tie. That said, making them faster might help against less common opponents in more unusual speed tiers. (Excadrill does need as much speed as possible, as you suggest, because it can't outbulk its normal threats.)

Dracovish does seem to need the boost from Choice Band to beat the things it's supposed to beat. In general, a failure to get an OHKO with Dracovish is a disaster. Against opponents like Snorlax (which it outspeeds naturally), failing to get the OHKO normally means that Dracovish will die and the Snorlax becomes unstoppable. It's possible that Life Orb would be enough, but do you really want to be switching moves on Dracovish anyway? (Additionally, Choice Band is clearly better when combined with Tailwind, although I don't do that all that often.)

That said, even though I suspect that removing both Taunt and Safeguard would risk the team outright losing to Toxapex, Pyukumuku and similar slow walls, removing one of them (probably Safeguard) might be viable. I may try out Nasty Plot on Togekiss, although it's a hard Pokémon to get setup turns with. One worry I have is that it'll make the team even weaker to Ditto than it already is (at the moment, only Gyarados and Dracovish have a good matchup against it); Ditto isn't all that common but it nearly always comes out against my team when the opponent has it.

I guess another possibility is to replace Power Whip with Dragon Dance: it's very rare that I actually use it, after all, and opponents will typically assume I have it even when I don't. Even so, finding opportunities to Dragon Dance will be hard: with most common opponents for Gyarados, clicking Dragon Dance means that the opponent will Dynamax and Gyarados will die due to not having the bulk from its own Dynamax (although you can keep up in terms of speed and damage output, you've already taken double damage due to not being Dynamaxed),



I think you've miscalculated the speeds (perhaps you calculated at Level 100)? Choice Specs Dragapult has 213 speed if running 252+ Timid. Cloyster at +2 has 214 speed. So I outspeed and OHKO.

(I also normally don't bring Cloyster out against special attackers; it needs to match up against physical attackers to get the chance to set up. Often I'll have KOed Dragapult anyway with one of the fairies before attempting a Cloyster sweep.)
My bad on the calcs... Still not used to the level difference between BSS and Smogon. I think you still need Power Whip for Bulky Waters (not sure how Rotom Wash is in Battle Spot... But Smogon has seen Scarf sets so it can outspeed and OHKO Gyarados). I'm also not too sure on your reasoning for Choice Band over scarf however. My experience (and from watcher youtubers play on both BSS and Smogon OU) showed that Dracovish with Strong Jaw and a Choice Scarf was OHKOing or 2HKOing mons it had no right to be (I'm sure it's not as bad at lvl 50 and most people run Dracovish on dedicated rain teams if they are looking to abuse Fishious Rend... But something to keep in mind). One thing I would recommend to give some more breaking power on the special side is a (experiment) Specs Whimsicott set I used a decent amount in Gen 7 draft leagues.

Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Hurricane

I'm not how well it would fair for you... But it could also free up a sash for Drill or Togekiss potentially (due to Battle Spot's one item per team deal). Feel free to give it a shot and tell me what you think. :D

Side note: Hurricane is only there because you have a few good Max Geyser users on your team... Otherwise something like Prankster Switcheroo can really fuck up something like Bulk Up Corviknight that mistook it for set up fodder
 
I like that idea; I think I'll try something like that out. (This team can't really set rain – Max Airstream is too important to be able to use other Dynamax moves much – so I might go with Memento or Switcheroo over Hurricane.)

Incidentally, based on my last few battles, one important reason to use Choice Band over Choice Scarf on Dracovish appears to be to OHKO (or nearly OHKO) Pokémon through Dynamax. Otherwise, the opponent can just Dynamax to keep something alive that Dracovish is meant to kill. (I tried out Scarf Dracovish in earlier testing, and it didn't seem to do enough; this may be one reason why.)
 
I like that idea; I think I'll try something like that out. (This team can't really set rain – Max Airstream is too important to be able to use other Dynamax moves much – so I might go with Memento or Switcheroo over Hurricane.)

Incidentally, based on my last few battles, one important reason to use Choice Band over Choice Scarf on Dracovish appears to be to OHKO (or nearly OHKO) Pokémon through Dynamax. Otherwise, the opponent can just Dynamax to keep something alive that Dracovish is meant to kill. (I tried out Scarf Dracovish in earlier testing, and it didn't seem to do enough; this may be one reason why.)
Yeah, It's always fun to use Spec sets on normally supportive mons (Sylveon being my personal favorite for the role) XD
 
After some testing, your Whimsicott set doesn't really work: its main issue is failing to outspeed Dragapult, which is a fairly big deal for a Fairy-type sweeper. (Scarf doesn't work either, it doesn't have enough power to get the KOs it needs.) Additionally, Switcheroo doesn't work very well when Dynamax is allowed because Pokémon can simply Dynamax their way out of it. They were nice ideas, though!

Meanwhile, I'm getting more used to Nasty Plot on Togekiss. It's pretty powerful when it works, but even with Whimsicott's help, it's rare to get the opportunity to actually set it (I've probably lost more battles to choosing it when I shouldn't, than I have won by sweeping a team I otherwise couldn't sweep).

I have a suspicion that the correct item to run on Togekiss is actually a pinch berry. Salac works very well, although it's possible that Petaya is better (especially in a set that doesn't use Nasty Plot).
 
After some testing, your Whimsicott set doesn't really work: its main issue is failing to outspeed Dragapult, which is a fairly big deal for a Fairy-type sweeper. (Scarf doesn't work either, it doesn't have enough power to get the KOs it needs.) Additionally, Switcheroo doesn't work very well when Dynamax is allowed because Pokémon can simply Dynamax their way out of it. They were nice ideas, though!

Meanwhile, I'm getting more used to Nasty Plot on Togekiss. It's pretty powerful when it works, but even with Whimsicott's help, it's rare to get the opportunity to actually set it (I've probably lost more battles to choosing it when I shouldn't, than I have won by sweeping a team I otherwise couldn't sweep).

I have a suspicion that the correct item to run on Togekiss is actually a pinch berry. Salac works very well, although it's possible that Petaya is better (especially in a set that doesn't use Nasty Plot).
When it comes to set up mons... You often have to take into consideration "what do they have that could kill me?"

Using Showdown's Calculator tends to help determine whether you should stay in and set up or look to attack/switch. Also, keep an eye out for choice mons lock into a Dragon move or any mon locked into Outrage: they are a guaranteed free Plot if you can get Togekiss in. (Right after a Special attacker uses Leaf Storm, Overheat, Draco, etc also helps... Or predicting a Superpower is one of the best things for a Plot Kiss sweep)
 
Also, keep an eye out for choice mons lock into a Dragon move or any mon locked into Outrage: they are a guaranteed free Plot if you can get Togekiss in.
Not if the enemy has a Dynamax available; that breaks choice locks. That's one of the main difficulties in setting up in this game mode: both players have so many options that it's hard to know for certain what can happen on the other side of the field.
 
Not if the enemy has a Dynamax available; that breaks choice locks. That's one of the main difficulties in setting up in this game mode: both players have so many options that it's hard to know for certain what can happen on the other side of the field.
Which is why Smogon banned OU and you should never Dynamax early XD

Potentially if Togekiss could learb Sludge Bomb or Sludge Wave, you could use that (I doubt it does though)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top