Resource Doubles Overview, Rules, and Q&A - Ask Questions Here! (Resource Index Inside)

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Stratos said:
Scizor is my favorite Pokemon (and not in the dex), but I don't understand why anyone would want to go back to the same Lando-T and Kyurem-B that we've been playing with for seven years now. Rather than rejecting change, you should be embracing the unique character of a new meta. It's exciting that we lost all of tiers 1 and 2 on the SM VR; it means a new set of Pokemon get to be popular now! I promise if you play with them you will learn to love them. And hey we'll still hold old gen tournaments if you really just miss Incineroar that much.
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I'm finding it's too much of the same and offers a lot less variety not having the previous generations available.

What has lost me with this generation is the nerf on my level 1 Mimikyu (focus sash is no longer useful) and no endeavour on Togedemaru. No Smeargle. So there is no (worthwhile) level 1 shenanigans.

Then the Pokemon I would use aren't available. No Magearna, Diance, Meloetta, Stakataka or any of the Mega's I'd use if we're talking DOU. Lando-T and Kyurem-B I found neither overused, broken nor difficult to deal with. Incineroar was overused last gen but otherwise I found in DOU there was a lot of variety and add in the new mechanics and there would be some more lifespan. I'm already feeling like with this generation I'm largely done with it while generations past with the mechanics and variety of Pokemon I never found the gameplay/variety got stale like that.

In saying that DUbers is my preferred format and requires the full complement of Pokemon available to be interesting. And seeing Zacian/Zamazenta in their crowned forms and Eternatus would have been wild against the other popular Pokemon used in the format. And add gmax Pokemon to that along with Primals, Mega's and Z-Moves and that would really be fun in a doubles format and re-engage me and the other DUbers players from generations past.
 
DoerreKong said:
I'm finding it's too much of the same and offers a lot less variety not having the previous generations available.

What has lost me with this generation is the nerf on my level 1 Mimikyu (focus sash is no longer useful) and no endeavour on Togedemaru. No Smeargle. So there is no (worthwhile) level 1 shenanigans.

Then the Pokemon I would use aren't available. No Magearna, Diance, Meloetta, Stakataka or any of the Mega's I'd use if we're talking DOU. Lando-T and Kyurem-B I found neither overused, broken nor difficult to deal with. Incineroar was overused last gen but otherwise I found in DOU there was a lot of variety and add in the new mechanics and there would be some more lifespan. I'm already feeling like with this generation I'm largely done with it while generations past with the mechanics and variety of Pokemon I never found the gameplay/variety got stale like that.

In saying that DUbers is my preferred format and requires the full complement of Pokemon available to be interesting. And seeing Zacian/Zamazenta in their crowned forms and Eternatus would have been wild against the other popular Pokemon used in the format. And add gmax Pokemon to that along with Primals, Mega's and Z-Moves and that would really be fun in a doubles format and re-engage me and the other DUbers players from generations past.
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honestly i'm mostly a cartridge player for wi fi battles and VGC and stuff. I come here for ideas in the current meta and play with stuff sometimes in showdown. But honestly after having JUST gotten masterball rank, i'm seeing a lot of the same stuff in online ranked. 9/10 teams lead with whimsicott in upper tiers. several excadrill leads cause he covers a lot of common leads in dmax often paired with ttar of course. However there were definitely some suprise teams that really made me smile. but overall most of the teams got to be pretty predictable with the same pokemon. Originally I wasn't super salty about dexit but at least in ranked play (partially because of streamer's rental teams), many of the teams run similar comps and already after season 1 am wanting more variety and just adding G-max pokemon to the mix I don't think will solve it but I could be wrong.

I'm really hoping for DLC or maybe a sequel with nat dex at this point. Will be curious to see what comps I see in higher ranks of masterball tier if I decide to pursue that.
 
I noticed earlier that Gmax Orbeatle is allowed despite the Gravity clause. Is this an oversight? Or is it being permitted because of it not only being linked to your Dynamax, but also because it's on a pokemon that you really wouldn't want to Dynamax in the first place?
 
Typically you'd be using something like STAB/STAB/filler/Protect, with filler being stuff like Perish Song/Coverage or even Freeze Dry if you aren't running Freeze Dry in one of the STAB slots.
 
Theukon_Dos said:
I noticed earlier that Gmax Orbeatle is allowed despite the Gravity clause. Is this an oversight? Or is it being permitted because of it not only being linked to your Dynamax, but also because it's on a pokemon that you really wouldn't want to Dynamax in the first place?
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Just so you know, GravSleep Clause has been removed, so there's no longer a gray area around sleep + G-Max Orbeetle being allowed.

Cipher Admin Lovrina said:
Does anyone know a good doubles moveset for Gigantamax Lapras? I've been reading that it's a very useful special offensive tank and screens settter.
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To give a more comprehensive answer than Yuichi here's a complete sample set:

:ss/lapras:
Lapras-Gmax @ Light Clay
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 116 HP / 68 Def / 108 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

The EV spread lives Max Overgrowth from Life Orb Ludicolo and KOes back with Freeze Dry (credits to Stratos). Sitrus Berry also works, but Light Clay is nice for extending Veil. As Yuichi said the third moveslot is flexible, with Perish Song being good with Gothitelle, and Icy Wind or Life Dew being other notable options.
 
Hey guys I’m currently building a belly drum Charizard for doubles and can’t decide on what berry to use with him. Any suggestions?

I thought of Salac, Iapapa, and Sitrus, but am not sure which to choose!

Charizard@Berry(?)
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Jolly
252 Speed 252 Atk 4 hp (not sure on spread)
-Belly Drum
-Fire Punch
-Thunder Punch
-Acrobatics

Ive been waiting to make a physical Charizard for a while now. He’s also Gigantamax if that matters.

Thought Process-
Belly Drum because I think it would be more threatening then a dd or sd.
Fire punch over Flare blitz since I’m cutting my Hp in half already, don’t need more self dmg.
Thunder Punch for big water types that resist fire.
Acrobatics because it seemed nice on paper with a berry

i apologize if this isn’t the correct area to post this, but I mainly want to know what berry I should be running. Am open to suggestions and comments on the set though!
 
Addicted2Pokemon said:
stuff
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suggestion 1: do not use belly drum gmax charizard. charizard is viable because of solar power + sun + dynamax + all the other good sun abusers are in a galarian immigration detention center.

suggestion 2: if you don't follow suggestion 1, use this set -

Charizard @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Acrobatics
- Belly Drum
- Protect

Sitrus gives you 25% of your HP back when you Belly Drum and lets you immediately spam Acrobatics/Max Airstream. Outspeeds +spe 95s (arcanine & co). Non-Gmax because setting up sun is infinitely more useful than a fire spin that doesn't trap. However if you're going for a silly set up with a fire type just use Beat Up + Justified Arcanine, at least it has priority.
 
tennisace said:
suggestion 1: do not use belly drum gmax charizard. charizard is viable because of solar power + sun + dynamax + all the other good sun abusers are in a galarian immigration detention center.

suggestion 2: if you don't follow suggestion 1, use this set -

Charizard @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Acrobatics
- Belly Drum
- Protect

Sitrus gives you 25% of your HP back when you Belly Drum and lets you immediately spam Acrobatics/Max Airstream. Outspeeds +spe 95s (arcanine & co). Non-Gmax because setting up sun is infinitely more useful than a fire spin that doesn't trap. However if you're going for a silly set up with a fire type just use Beat Up + Justified Arcanine, at least it has priority.
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Hey I wanna say thanks for your time! It’s nice to get some feedback on fun sets. I know about the best set Charizard solar power etc , I just wanted to use a physical set because I already have that version. I chose to use a hacked shiny Gmax for this set just cuz. It’s worked out pretty nicely but I think the sitrus berry is what it needs, I used iapapa and the berry don’t trigger right away like a sitrus would. Thunder punch has gotten me some kos on gyarados but that’s it. I was thinking of running earthquake instead for a spread move, I’m playing doubles and think a spread belly drum move is needed to get max umph. I’m staying with Gmax because I don’t care much about sun since I’m not heatwaving. The fire spin was takin people out last I played with him. So maybe a rock slide or eq. As far as protect, I can use Gmax protect with belly drum so that’s an option that I’ve used effectively, is the 36 hp Evs that important? I want to get into better spreads but I usually just max 2 stats and add the last. It to hp
 
Empress said:
What makes Dmax/Gmax more manageable in Doubles than in Singles?
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  • Significantly more defensive counterplay exists. Snarl / Wisp / Intimidate / Screens are all great already and reduce damage output. Protect isn't perfect but it does significantly hinder your 3 turns of max. Same with redirection
  • Choice items are already not great so breaking choice lock is whatever
  • Stronger speed control options make sweeping after Dynamax much harder
  • Because Doubles games are less linear, getting a certain Pokemon sniped by a Dynamax doesn't instantly end the game. Your opponent can't repeat the same switch chains 5x to exploit a 5v6 advantage.
As I understand it, in Singles dynamax was basically "every time the Diggersby comes in, you guess whether it's dynamaxing. If you guess wrong once, they win." That's definitely not nearly the case in DOU.

The 2x HP thing is still a bit stupid but I hope if we decide to do anything about it, we start with a Dynamax Level 0 clause and only ban it if it's still broken from there.
 
I agree with doerre Kong. When I played DUbers before the eighth generation came out, I thought that format was the most difficult to play, and therefore the most interesting. I can only imagine how nice it would be to be able to use all the previous mechanics combined with the new ones.
So please add DUbers to the national dex.
 
Stratos said:
The 2x HP thing is still a bit stupid but I hope if we decide to do anything about it, we start with a Dynamax Level 0 clause and only ban it if it's still broken from there.
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Dynamax level 0 sounds like a good idea but it's worth keeping in mind that several pokemon (I believe most gmax mons?) are only available from 4/5 star raids and pokemon you catch from them always already have a few levels of dynamax, so it's not possible to get them at level 0.

Yoda2798 said:
To give a more comprehensive answer than Yuichi here's a complete sample set:

:ss/lapras:
Lapras-Gmax @ Light Clay
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 116 HP / 68 Def / 108 SpA / 216 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

The EV spread lives Max Overgrowth from Life Orb Ludicolo and KOes back with Freeze Dry (credits to Stratos). Sitrus Berry also works, but Light Clay is nice for extending Veil. As Yuichi said the third moveslot is flexible, with Perish Song being good with Gothitelle, and Icy Wind or Life Dew being other notable options.
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What threats does thunderbolt hit that freeze dry/hydro pump doesn't hit harder?
 
How is Freeze-Dry + Gmax Lapras legal? The only way to put F-D on Lapras is through egg move, which simultaneously bars the Gigantamax Factor...
 
lamojeru said:
How is Freeze-Dry + Gmax Lapras legal? The only way to put F-D on Lapras is through egg move, which simultaneously bars the Gigantamax Factor...
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If two Pokemon of the same species are in the Day-Care, and one Pokemon has an open moveslot, the Pokemon can pass down egg moves without hatching them from an egg. These two Pokemon can even be of the same gender. So while you're correct that the Gigantamax Factor isn't passed down in breeding, you still can obtain Egg Moves on them just fine.
 
DaWoblefet said:
If two Pokemon of the same species are in the Day-Care, and one Pokemon has an open moveslot, the Pokemon can pass down egg moves without hatching them from an egg. These two Pokemon can even be of the same gender. So while you're correct that the Gigantamax Factor isn't passed down in breeding, you still can obtain Egg Moves on them just fine.
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This is a GAME CHANGER holy thank you
 
Who are generally considered good team mates to G-max Lapras and why? I just jumped into SS doubles meta today and want to use the singing artic dino competitively with a good core to support her.
 
Himura said:
Who are generally considered good team mates to G-max Lapras and why? I just jumped into SS doubles meta today and want to use the singing artic dino competitively with a good core to support her.
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Hitmontop stands out as one of Lapras's best partners for two reasons. You can side Mach Punch your own Lapras to activate your own Weakness Policy, and you can also use Wide Guard to protect Lapras from Snarl. (Lapras at -1 SpA is deadweight.)

This all being said, G-Max Lapras fits decently well on any balance team that wants a bulky Water-type. Lapras can be a bit passive, so it likes being accompanied by more offense-oriented Pokemon like Dragapult or a sand core (Excadrill + Tyranitar).

If you do something along these lines, you'll end up with a decently viable team:

1580784649341.png


There's also a few good-ish Lapras teams in the Teambuilding Competition thread, although they were built at the very start of the meta and don't reflect all the new trends we've come to see.
 
What makes charizard more broken in DOU than it is in VGC? Is it how DOU is 6v6 instead of 4v4? or because it has certain mons available that VGC doesn't have? or what
 
Solar Power GMax Zard is honestly broke AF in VGC too. First, it gets STAB Max Airstream. Second, GMax Wildfire's secondary effect is ridiculous—as long as you click it once, you kill an entire Pokemon with residuals, no brain needed. Third, check this calc:

252 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charizard Blast Burn vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Dusclops in Sun: 253-300 (89 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

And last, the only counterplay outside of sack half your team to the max turns is faster rock moves, or sack something to set TR, but its natural partners are Venusaur and Torkoal which are good against those.


However, the general nature of DOU is that broken things are always more broken in DOU than VGC for two main reasons. One, the cost of teching something onto your team for a specific matchup is greater because you have to bring everything to every game. Two, counterleading is less effective because longer games mean more opportunities to pivot your broken mon into favorable field position.
 
Now that Gen7 DOU ladder is up, can there be a mention of it somewhere? Right now there is absolutely no mention of it anywhere that is easily seen.
At least put it in the roomintro so that people can see it?
 
I know that Wish is a so common used move in support movesets in singles but that doesn't seems to be that way in doubles formats. I could understand why it is not even used nowadays that we have so much more useful moves for our support movesets but I am wondering: did it even was used in competitive doubles history? I'm so curious about it.

In a second thought I realised that Baton Pass (another popular and even powerful move of singles) isn't a thing either in doubles. I understand that the lose of momentum and the focus in a single target would destroy baton pass chains. Even if Wish doesn't relies on chains for work could any factor leading to Baton Pass unpopularity in doubles also explains the lack of use of Wish in doubles? I hope somebody with more knowledge of doubles competitive scene could enlighten me a little

This is what I currently know about it
[...] the only times Wish has ever really been used was on some XY/SM Seismic Toss Mega Kangaskhan sets and even less often on some Chansey in SM
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Does somebody knows how this move or sets were used in that context ?
 
Doubles play is significantly more fast-paced than singles play, which discourages do-nothing stuff like walls. Wish is a great way to spend your turn doing nothing, which is generally really bad, and using it to heal something else is usually just worse than clicking Heal Pulse on the thing (which is already situational). Seismic Toss Kang was able to use it because it's a huge threat both offensively and defensively, and Wish let it stick around a little longer, especially in SM where Fighting moves were scarce. Chansey's in a similar boat, except rather than being a giant offensive threat, it was sometimes just too bulky for teams to get through in conjunction with Intimidate support, though Softboiled was almost always better.

Baton Pass suffers from the lack of momentum I mentioned with Wish, but it also suffers from Intimidate's omnipresence. Since it passes the lowered stats, the value of "dry passing" is greatly diminished, and good old fashioned Baton Pass chains are just too slow and vulnerable to disruption.

The tl;dr of Wish and BP being so rare is basically "don't run moves that can do nothing or worse than nothing."
 
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