Lati@s in OU??

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RaikouLover

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I was just playing the DS the other day. I came accross my Latios.. Let me cut to the chase:

Should Lati@ be legal without Soul Dew? That's really the main reason their in uubers, right? Think about it:
  • They share the same stats as base 600 pokemon like Chomp, Nite, Celebi, Jirachi, etc.
  • They have 5 weaknesses, most of which are common to combat all the other dragons and psychics
  • They have a useful trait, but it's not uuber.
More importantly, it takes long as hell just to track down and catch these pokemon, so shouldn't they be of some use in Wi-fi? The average player, that has no access to a nintendo event can't even get their hands on a soul dew Lati@. And, they are useable in all the Battle Towers.

What are your thoughts on this?

If you agree, what kind of sets would you give them in OU?
 
They have great typing, one of the best abilitys, huge movepools. They're uber even without soul dew.
 
Levitate is an 'Uber' trait to have if you know what I mean because then you can avoid the move 'Earthquake'; probably the most popular move for physical sweepers in the whole game.
 
Here is the problem, their movepools are too large for them to be in OU. Plus, give them Calm Mind it would be like them having soul dew without the soul dew.
 
I know it probably won't happen but I have to provoke discussion.

Seriously, their movepools are no bigger than Tar, Nite, even the damn Nidos. They can definately be countered, because they're not fit to mix sweep.. so they can be walled decently. And, they would not centralize the metagame.

Levitate is far from an uuber trait... their are countless standard pokemon that get it so that point is irrelevant.
 
Imagine SpecsMence, but with 20 more sp atk, 10 more speed, no SR weakness, a 2x weakness to ice instead of 4, etc. That's Latios in OU, without Soul Dew.

Edit: In retrospect, it doesn't get Fire Blast, but it could still probably destroy steel types with HP Fire.
 
^ And let's not forget the higher Special Defense. God that would be a nightmare in OU, as that would force us ALL to carry a SpecsLatios counter all the freaking time, but Latios doesn't Dragon Dance as well as some of the dragons (if we don't include his high Special Defense).

Anyways, even without Soul Dew, their movepool is just too massive and has too good of stats in the needed places. In short: They're Uber for a reason.

Actually 4 weaknesses are for Latis: Ice, Dark, Ghost, and Dragon.
 
RaikouLover said:
I know it probably won't happen but I have to provoke discussion.

Seriously, their movepools are no bigger than Tar, Nite, even the damn Nidos. They can definately be countered, because they're not fit to mix sweep.. so they can be walled decently. And, they would not centralize the metagame.

Levitate is far from an uuber trait... their are countless standard pokemon that get it so that point is irrelevant.
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I love the Nidos but others don't. Want to know why? There less than average stats which needs a lot of support to work. Don't mention the nidos.

This topic is over he should understand by now latis are not OU material.
 
Originally Posted by Fat Fishin
Imagine SpecsMence, but with 20 more sp atk, 10 more speed, no SR weakness, a 2x weakness to ice instead of 4, etc. That's Latios in OU, without Soul Dew.
Click to expand...

It's still walled by specs mences usual counters... to say that a 130 base special attack using a specs is uuber still doesn't cut it. Heatran can use specs overheat and is still walled by... Blissey! No SR weakness...

No one also never considers... Dragonite and Garchomp base 135 attack.. Choice Band Outrage. I suppose thats uuber too? Even now, we are forced to carry a Garchomp counter, or just a Dragon counter on every team because they are all dominant.
 
RaikouLover said:
It's still walled by specs mences usual counters... to say that a 130 base special attack using a specs is uuber still doesn't cut it. Heatran can use specs overheat and is still walled by... Blissey! No SR weakness...

No one also never considers... Dragonite and Garchomp base 135 attack.. Choice Band Outrage. I suppose thats uuber too? Even now, we are forced to carry a Garchomp counter, or just a Dragon counter on every team because they are all dominant.
Click to expand...

Almost every one of SpecsMence counters doesn't work on Specs Latias as it now takes three times as long to kill it with ice moves.
 
The ADV to DP transition brought trouble. I haven't done the Battle Tower enough, but Lati@s's worst nightmare was Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Megahorn, and Shadow Ball. Now Ice Punch and Crunch are physical and new moves like Sucker Punch, X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, and Ice Shard are trouble against 80/90 defenses instead of 110/130 special defense. X-Scissor and Silver Wind are TMs, and Pinsir actually poses a threat now when I encounter it, whereas in ADV the only thing it could do was HP Bug.
 
^agreed. Seriously.. I see Weavile and Tyranitar... as common as they are.. absolutely raping the Lati@ twins. Ice Moves are also very common, but as stated above, the physical hits will be the way to go. Half the choice banders out there are boasting massive attack and Pursuit to go along with it. And for specs sets I see pokemon like Milotic, Vaporeon, and Celebi... taking the Draco Meteor and just recovering off the damage like they always do. I hardly see them as uncounterable, which is what makes something uuber. Mewtwo for example, would have no counter in OU because he can outspeed and KO everything... and gets the magnificent aura sphere to shit on his weaknesses.
 
It's basically the manaphy argument all over again, and in the end it remains too powerful for OU despite it being somewhat eh in ubers without the dew
 
Colonel M said:
^ And let's not forget the higher Special Defense. God that would be a nightmare in OU, as that would force us ALL to carry a SpecsLatios counter all the freaking time, but Latios doesn't Dragon Dance as well as some of the dragons (if we don't include his high Special Defense).

Anyways, even without Soul Dew, their movepool is just too massive and has too good of stats in the needed places. In short: They're Uber for a reason.

Actually 4 weaknesses are for Latis: Ice, Dark, Ghost, and Dragon.
Click to expand...

The 5th weakness is Bug
 
You cannot bring up that it's physical weaknesses makes it not uber, cause with Soul Dew, it's physical defense is still the same, therefore, why can't Soul Dew Lati's be OU. It's weak to Crunch and Weavile can still Night Slash it etc etc.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
You cannot bring up that it's phsyical weaknesses makes it not uber, cause with Soul Dew, it's phsyical defense is still the same, therefore, why can't Soul Dew Lati's be OU. It's weak to Crunch and Weavile can still Night Slash it etc etc.
Click to expand...

I wasn't claiming that they weren't uber, just that my favorite Pokemon goes down more easily now in the Battle Tower...Battle Tower...I wasn't talking about, or claiming to be able to speak for, the whole metagame.
 
Well you see..Latios/Latias are specsmence to the extreme. They both have an insane draco meteor, LEVITATE, grass knot, thunderbolt, recover...the list goes on. Just too much power.
 
It's pretty funny that you posted this because Jumpman, a few others and myself were discussing this on IRC the other day. The consensus was to maybe start testing it in OU to see how it worked out without Soul Dew.

A moveset? Comedy Choice Specs option.
 
it almost seems too powerful to bother testing but you have to realize that with stuff like weavile tar garchomp specsmence being whored, psychic dragon is pretty much the worst typing right now.
 
Well most of Lati@s counters in ubers are OU pokes (Metagross, Blissey, TTar and even stuff like Registeel) so I can see it working ok in OU, not that gamebreaking and it's worth a try.
 
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