Unpopular opinions

Ironmage said:
I'm really, really, not seeing the connections between Charizard and the Welsh dragon. It's not known for breathing fire, it associated with the Earth, and it's mythological arc deals with fighting a rival dragon. I would say that Garchomp would have worked better solely due to how well Dragon/Ground works for representing it.
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I guess but at least Charizard looks like the Welsh Dragon unlike Garchomp which is its own thing. More importantly there's the matter of Cynthia already having Garchomp as the hallmark of her squad. I guess you can argue Blue already used it but he's more associated with Blastoise
 
DreamPrince said:
Wait? Really? That's shocking because Pokemon like Togekiss, Roserade, Magnezone, and Gliscor were Pokemon that redeemed their lines- without them, their lines genuinely sucked. Do you have any examples of posts like that? In Sylveon's case, I feel like it was an ad for the Fairy type. Ooooh! A new Eeveelution! What type could it be?
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Data point of one, but while I like most of the Gen 4 evos/prevos on their own merits, I'm not a fan of how they look when placed next to their existing family. The art styles clash and it's uncomfortably apparent that these designs were created as additions to old families as opposed to the whole family being designed as a cohesive unit. A lot of cross-gen evos suffer from this, but it's especially apparent with Gen 4 just because of the time that had passed since the originals were made.

Also, regarding Jigglypuff, the feeling I've got is that she was added in 64 because she had a prominent role in the show and that one Pokemon center (and because she was shaped like Kirby) and then she just kinda stuck around with the only reason for staying being that she'd become a Smash Bros staple. On at least one occasion, Sakurai has seriously considered cutting her (it almost happened for Brawl), because literally the only thing she has going for her is tradition.
 
Yung Dramps said:
You can actually get Charmander before the postgame. Via max raids only, granted, but it's still an option. I feel like it was probably meant as a reference to The Welsh Dragon and they were thinking "Hey it's a red dragon just like that popular mon." Also as tmi said fits into the whole showman persona, using a popular mon to make himself look good. I've seen people that if it was the former they shoulda given him Druddigon but lol Druddigon
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As a Welsh woman, I don't really see this. If they were making a reference to Y Ddraig Goch (The Red Dragon) then there would (or at least should) be a lot more to it. There's a counterpart to it, known as Y Ddraig Wen (The White Dragon). They're meant to represent the people of Vortigern and the Saxons, respectively, with Y Ddraig Goch beating Y Ddraig Wen in a large battle after Vortigern released them from a mountain. Unless Leon is meant to represent Vortigern, that's the only way I see it remotely working, and it just doesn't. Even then, they missed like, most of the "legend". Even Druddigon wouldn't work, since you're still missing the all-important counterpart. I may just be reading too much into this though, as Y Ddraig Wen isn't featured too often in notable material, at least outside of the legend.

Unless I'm missing something, the only major reference to Wales I know of is Galarian Farfetch'd and Sirfetch'd, since the leek was worn by patron Saint David's soldiers as identification. I'm surprised Talonflame wasn't in the base game as a reference to the Red Kite, a national symbol of our wildlife, though the reference would be quite obscure.

I think the story should have explained Charizard better, maybe some interview explaining why Leon has one. Just more substance in general.

EDIT: I'll also say Ironmage is absolutely right.
 
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DreamPrince said:
Wait? Really? That's shocking because Pokemon like Togekiss, Roserade, Magnezone, and Gliscor were Pokemon that redeemed their lines- without them, their lines genuinely sucked. Do you have any examples of posts like that? In Sylveon's case, I feel like it was an ad for the Fairy type. Ooooh! A new Eeveelution! What type could it be?
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electrivire, magmortar, lickilicky, rhyperior, probopass, *babies*, g4 eeveelutions debately
all of them have pretty uninspired, "worse" (bigger, less cute or compact*) designs
none of these were (very) viable either
*idk how to describe "compact", like i think electabuzz looks better than vire. rhydon->rhyperior is another example, rhydon being simplier

many of these mons were still locked to postgame in dpp and the bad ones stick more than the good ones

though if bbnd was anything the internet isnt a vocal force, and the newer kids just didnt really care about past gen mons enough for them to break the status quo. (also: gen 5 had a soft reboot. gen 6 had upgrades in megas. now, regional forms and evos, which dont "ruin" the past mons the same way g4 evos could. every gen 6+ has altered old mons in some way)
 
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Charizard As Leon's Ace:
While I was also disappointed that Leon used a Charizard as his ace as the Gen I pandering/favoritism is not even subtle anymore (and remember my favorite Pokemon is Charizard), it's not bad game design. The whole idea behind Leon is that he's the best of the best, and what Pokemon do many fans think being the best of the best (despite how it actually performs in competitive)? Charizard. But they knew they couldn't just give him a Charizard and call it a day so gave it a Gigantamax and that's the justification why it was allowed, similar to how Diantha's ace is Gardevoir because it has a new shiny Mega Evolution.

Two Alike Starters:
Leon having the unpicked Galar Starter I think was more meant to be symbolic than trying to fit it somewhere on Leon's team; though not it's a symbolism that was also done in SM (but a bit better). First it sort of mirrors, yet again, the Gen I Champion battle where Blue used the Starter that was strong against yours. Another less pandering symbolism is the last time you saw the unpicked Starter it was a Level 5 basic stage. And now the next time you see it it's a Champion level final stage, showing not only how much it has grown but also how much how you and your Starter grown as your Starter should also be high level and in its final stage.

Suspicious Derivative said:
Slightly unrelated to this entire thread and this discussion, but there is one Gen 1 Pokémon which I wonder about when it comes to popularity. It feels to me that it seems more popular than it is, for the lack of a better phrase. The one I am talking about is Jigglypuff. I only thought of this because of how it has been included in the Smash Bros series since the beginning. (...) It made it to the top 100 at least but it stills feels rather low for a Pokémon that "feels" popular. I'm not sure about Jigglypuff really, maybe it is just still living on it's popularity from the Gen 1 days (I know that it had quite a role in the anime, and in Pokémon Adventures, Green (the girl) has one as her main Pokémon). Maybe it is super popular in Japan or something? I don't know.
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Jigglypuff's presence in Smash was really only because they wanted an extra Pokemon rep but didn't want to make a new wireframe so picked Jigglypuff as it was well known at the time due to the anime and they could fit it over Kirby's wireframe. And it's ongoing presence in Smash is just due to it being a legacy character, it's popularity has waned but due to some early installment weirdness it managed to get in on the ground floor which cemented its presence for all time.

That said Master's Summer event did a fun thing with Jigglypuff that may bring back some fans to it.

EDIT: Shedinja'd.

BW's Dex Restriction:
I will also stand up for the decision to have only the new Pokemon in the main game of BW, even if it did alienate some "hardcore" older fans.
You got to remember, BW was the first region that wasn't based on a region in Japan, it was based on New York. If the regions are roughly in the same place as their real world counterparts, that meant Unova has pretty much on the other side of the planet from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. Logically that would mean they would have mostly if not entirely new Pokemon, so that's what they did. It was also a move to try and recreate the feeling the first gen games had, where you didn't have an "old" favorite because all Pokemon were new. Sure, BW ended up having to make expies of some existing Pokemon to try and put in some familiarity, but they also made sure to give the Pokemon their own identity. Pidove are doves/pheasant while Pidgey is a generic bird/bird of prey, Blitzle family are zebras while Ponyta family are generic horses/Unicorn, Roggenrola family are geodes while Geodude family are generic rocks (I just realized how ironic their names are now), Timburr family are construction workers while Machop family are bodybuilders, Woobat family are based on furry fruit bats while Zubat is based on vampire bats.

Gen 5 High Level Evolutions:
Should be noted the high level evolutions weren't a problem in BW because the Pokemon were positioned in a location in the game where the high evolution level was reachable. It's only in future games where they didn't rebalance this is it now a problem and something GF should have fixed by now. Just as they adjust movesets, they should also adjust evolution levels for regional Pokemon at least. At the very least maybe add in a mechanic where, if the Pokemon is more friendly toward you, they can evolve much earlier.

DrPumpkinz said:
I mean, it's not like you can get wild starter Pokemon in general. To my knowledge, they've all been either gifts or weird things like Friend Safari, Island Scan, or the aforementioned raids. So it's all a bit of a mystery regarding where these things are actually native to.
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Huh, true. I don't think it's something GF really thought much on. My headcanon is that they're specially bred (maybe think designer breed) in hidden reservations for Professors and other notable figures to give out as "Starter" Pokemon (usually to help with Pokemon research). And with that thinking the Region where they're a Starter in is their home region as that's where they're bred & raised. Now of course, since a designer breed, the Starter isn't exclusive to any region so if a Professor wanted they could request Starters raised in another region, but there's honestly no reason for the Professor to do that and cases like with Sycamore and Birch are rare cases I imagine.

DreamPrince said:
Wait? Really? That's shocking because Pokemon like Togekiss, Roserade, Magnezone, and Gliscor were Pokemon that redeemed their lines- without them, their lines genuinely sucked.
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But don't forget they also gave us Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Ambipom, Mamoswine, and Probopass. Less stellar designs. And these aren't all the cross gen evos Gen IV introduced, there was a LOT (and not all of them were readily accessible in Diamond & Pearl, it wasn't until Platinum dud they think to include all the Pokemon that received cross gen evolutions as part of the regional dex). While there are certainly good designs and even some of the ones I mentioned may not look bad or turned out competitively good, to a lot of fans it felt like GF was just shotgunning new evolutions (and pre-evolutions) to whatever Pokemon that got hit by the shot (and yet there are other Pokemon, some which may have been more popular, who didn't get an evolution. Why you giving Lickitung an evo by not Absol?).

EDIT: And Shedinja'd again. BTW has you seen a Dynamax Shedinja Max Raid? It's both the funniest and saddest thing you'll ever see.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
But don't forget they also gave us Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Ambipom, Mamoswine, and Probopass
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With the exceptions of Lickilicky, Mamoswine, and maybe Rhyperior, I think those designs look more or less like their pre-evolutions. I personally really like Magmortar, and I still think it looks very familiar to the Magamar and Magby. Regardless, most of the evolutions were boons in terms of competitive play, so in that regard, I still think they should do cross-evolutions, even if fans don't like them.
 
Regardless of your opinion about the Gen 4 cross-generational evolutions, I do not think doing the opposite problem (making no evo or pre-evo for older Generations) would really solve the problem, but instead punch a hole that was temporarily fixed by substitutes.

Mega Evolutions isn't always available, and while Regional Forms did a good job on expending on pre-existing species, it's not something that would really work on the long run for the likes Farfetch'd and Corsola without resorting to broken Abilities... as if is not for the Regional Evolutions.

It's definitely the execution that manners, and honestly, I don't mind seeing more Cross-Generational additions to existing lines (as far as Regional Evolutions) as long as it was well executed and give a much needed buff to those who do needs one.
 
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Leon and Charizard represent the Red Dragon while Leon and Duraludon represent the White Dragon. They're rivals with Leon being one who wins out every time. Regarding cross-evolutions, I wish more single stage families had pre-evolutions. I read on Bulbapedia that no single-stage family has every been shown hatching from an egg in the anime, which makes sense for most. Nobody's going think small Pokemon like Stunfisk, Dunsparce, or Rotom being born is weird, but Pokemon like Absol, Heracross, Pinsir, Druddigon, or Bouffalant are too big. Pre-evos also mean more Pokemon can be available for early game and are perfect for marketing.
 
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To be honest, preevos in the next region always seemed unnecessary UNLESS it's to make obtaining the hard to get mon easier
The art style clash is definitely a good point. Only Magnezone can really be excused for looking really different due to the concept of fusing the 3 Magnemite, and Togekiss still has Gen 2 attributes despite losing limbs
Tangrowth not having its vines properly drawn while Tangela does along with Roserade not having its roses properly drawn seems lazy...
 
Samtendo09 said:
If you want a proper unpopular opinion, here goes nothing: Regardless of how do you think of Leon fondly or not, Charizard being Leon's Ace is just a bad story design. Not just because of the usual "Kanto pandering" reason, but because it was done in a way that not only it isn't even a Pokémon of Galar you could even catch, but the fact that the story makes it so Leon have always Charizard, not any of the other two Kanto starter depending on your starter.
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That's probably an unpopular opinion, I don't agree to 100% though (but that's usually the case with unpopular opinions). I have mixed views on Leon having Charizard as his ace for most of the reasons you described. But I also agree with Tmi489, it isn't all bad from a story perspective while it is worse from a gameplay perspective.
Yung Dramps said:
I've seen this point a few time in discussions about why BW1's new mons only maingame is not as severe as dexit and I don't fully agree. Perhaps it applies to some of the more transfer-savvy hardcore fans, but in regards to the general public (aka the overwhelming majority) it's a much different story.

As we've gone over a few times in this forum across various threads, the aforementioned general public based off of anecdotal evidence and GF's changes in design philosophy tends to care very little for transferring and for postgame content. Now obviously there are outliers in all aspects here, but that's the overall trend. When you operate under this mindset, you'll find that BW1's way of going about things is infinitely worse than Dexit to the average buyer. So what if transferring opens up more old choices in BW1 than SWSH? Most are never gonna bother. BW1 may also have some foreign Pokemon available in postgame areas, but by that point most players have already put the game down and even if they haven't who actually changes up their main team of 6 in the postgame regardless of how much there is to do? In short all that matters to most buyers is what's in the main game, and from that perspective SWSH obviously wins out with the 2nd biggest dex in the series while BW1 has absolutely zero returning mons to let players who may not be as receptive to the new cast anchor themselves to.
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This is a very good point. For the players who only play through the main game (and wanted to use old Pokémon) and then stopped playing once they had beaten the game, B/W did probably not suit them very well.
Yung Dramps said:
Heck, not even the hardcore section at the time was totally safe. If you recall the first BW VGC season (I believe 2011?) had the new 156 minus mascots and mythicals as the only allowed mons. Obviously that's not an issue anymore, but at the time it may have been a pretty big bummer for those hoping that they'd be able to navigate around the restrictions postgame.
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I remember some things about this. Apart from VGC, there was also an online competition sometime in (late?) 2011 that used the same restrictions. Not sure why I can remember so much about it though, maybe because my interest in Pokémon was so extremely high back then? Either way, I don't recall seeing any complaints about it. The general reception that I remember seeing from those who did play VGC and the online competition was that they were fine with it. They used the Pokémon they could use, and tried their best with them. This basically created a metagame of its own, with its own restrictions and rules. I don't play VGC or online competitions myself, but I guess it is similar to most new VGC seasons. The first one for a new generation always tends to be restricted to the regional dex only. B/W was probably a little more extreme than X/Y, S/M or S/S, but I can't remember seeing anyone being unhappy about being restricted to only new Pokémon. I also remember that they had many other online competitions during Gen 5, some with even more restrictive such as one where you could only use Eevee and Eeveelutions. Then there were many others too. If anything, I believe online competitions started during Gen 5? I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about them during Gen 4. But then I was burnt out during the latter half of Gen 4 and barely visited any Pokémon sites, so I could be wrong.

Regarding Jigglypuff: Thanks DreamPrince, DrPumpkinz and Pikachu315111 for the answers. I was looking up Jigglypuff yesterday while making my post and I read on the Smash wiki that it was included in Smash 64 because it was very similar to Kirby, so that makes sense. While it isn't one of my favorite Pokémon or Smash characters, I'm still happy they never cut Jigglypuff from the Smash series. Though I guess it would have been included in Ultimate anyway since they decided to include all old characters there.
DreamPrince said:
Wait? Really? That's shocking because Pokemon like Togekiss, Roserade, Magnezone, and Gliscor were Pokemon that redeemed their lines- without them, their lines genuinely sucked. Do you have any examples of posts like that? In Sylveon's case, I feel like it was an ad for the Fairy type. Ooooh! A new Eeveelution! What type could it be?
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I agree, but I still think they recieved critcism for their design. Not everyone is a competitive player either (and I think even fewer were back during the D/P days), some people just disliked them without caring about them necessarily getting better or more useful than their pre-evos. From the new evolutions, I remember Probopass being extremely disliked in general just because of its design. And as DrPumpkinz pointed out, the clash of old and new artstyles might be one reason they got critcised heavily.

I wish I had saved some good threads like I did for Gen 3, but I did some quick digging in the archives a.k.a. Serebiiforums, though I didn't feel like searching around much because of how badly the search function works on their new forums. Either way, I found this old thread from back when D/P were the newest:
https://forums.serebii.net/threads/worst-pokémon-in-d-p.269480/
A thread where people could say which Gen 4 Pokémon they think is the worst. I didn't look too very deep into the thread since it is so long, but it seems like Bidoof/Bibarel and other "crapmons" are popular choices. Though it wouldn't surprise me if every single Sinnoh Pokémon gets mentioned somewhere in the thread.
 
New Unpopular Opinion: I like the gimmick of Opal's Gym and wished more Gyms gave the Gym Leaders (and all bosses in that matter) a way to give themselves an out-of-gameplay advantage.

For the most part, what's the difference between a normal trainer battle with a random NPC on a route and a Gym Leader, Rival, villain team, or Pokemon League member? Aside from higher levels, sometimes more Pokemon, and maybe a better AI, nothing really. Heck, sometimes they only feel like a slightly stronger mook after you faced down a batch of the Gym Trainers/Grunts who essentially prepared you to what to expect.

Opal's Gym is I think the first to throw you the curve ball where you can be going up against an opponent with a disadvantage... or advantage depending if you get the quiz question right. And just when you thought it was over when the battle with Opal started, NOPE, the quiz continues and this time she's throwing trick questions as you so you're likely to get at least one wrong on your first playthrough. Now while it kind of felt annoying at first since the game makes you feel it was your fault your Pokemon's stats got lowered, at the same time I don't think the sentiment would hold true had the Gym Leader just sent out a Pokemon with a stat or two increased.

This idea was played with again in the final Rival battle in the Isle of Armor DLC, Avery/Klara setting up Psychic Terrain/2 layers of Toxic Spikes before the battle begins. While this didn't feel as effective and more easily mitigated, I did give the battle something extra to make it slightly more memorable (heck, and thinking about it I'm probably blasé on it because I faced all the Isle of Armor with a Level 100 Cinderace, had I been "properly" leveled it could have provided a little challenge).

And of course there was the Totem Pokemon battles in Gen VII. All Totem Pokemon started the battle with (a) stat boost(s), though I think for them the more notable challenge was them calling in a SOS Pokemon that was made to assist them. However I think a more truer example of this is in the original SM against Mother Beast Lusamine, who increases the stat of each of her Pokemon upon sending them out.

I think they should give a way for bosses to give themselves an advantage that's outside usual battle mechanics. Increasing one of their Pokemon's stats, setting up a field effect (hazard, weather, terrain, room, maybe even a unique effect), or able to do a special action during the battle that helps them. Now generally for Gym Leaders, friendly Rivals, Pokemon League, and other notable friendly/official NPCs I don't think the advantage should have to do with directly weakening your Pokemon (stat decreasing, inflicting status ailments, disabling Ability/Items, etc.). Also for the villain team, jerk Rivals, mischievous NPCs (like Poison/Ghost/Dark-type specialist), and other unkind/hostile NPCs they can directly hinder your Pokemon if the gimmick fits. Of course there can be exceptions as long as the context works with it.

Also they can do this with Legendary battles where you're unable to catch the Legendary (maybe not has OP as Ultra Necrozma but still show off the Legendaries power).
 
Suspicious Derivative said:
I wish I had saved some good threads like I did for Gen 3, but I did some quick digging in the archives a.k.a. Serebiiforums, though I didn't feel like searching around much because of how badly the search function works on their new forums. Either way, I found this old thread from back when D/P were the newest:
https://forums.serebii.net/threads/worst-pokémon-in-d-p.269480/
A thread where people could say which Gen 4 Pokémon they think is the worst. I didn't look too very deep into the thread since it is so long, but it seems like Bidoof/Bibarel and other "crapmons" are popular choices. Though it wouldn't surprise me if every single Sinnoh Pokémon gets mentioned somewhere in the thread.
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Thanks for the page. It must have really taken a while to find it. Haven't gone through all of it, but it seems that the Bidoof line is the prime target for bring hated, while Pachirsu, Lumineon, Kricketot, and Burmy lines are also pretty popular. I don't personally dislike these lines, though I kind of get why these lines are disliked, there generic and have really bad base stats. Probopass and Tangrowth seem to be the most disliked of all the cross gens so far, though I've seen Leafeon be mentioned once or twice.
 
Bombullu101 said:
Piplup is the best Gen 4 starter :3
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So popular that in the anime Dawn was given an Everstone just so her Piplup wouldn't evolve. But that's alright, Dawn was focused on Contests where you don't need power to win, would be silly to give a battling Pokemon an Everstone and to give an illusion this was a good decision by have it winning against its final stage by cheating via the referee letting it wake up when it fell asleep during battle and dodging a super move thanks to a clothing item it shouldn't have... Also Chimchar is better.
 
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